The Religion Discussion

[megadoc1]

and then someone found it fit to go backward

[d spike]

and then someone found it fit to go backward

So?
Ashamed of your past? Is this an admittance of error? or wounded pride?
Look man, grow a pair. This just shows that you very well know that even then, while you claimed you knew the answers, you now know that you were off-key/out of line and unable to read the map/compass you proudly bore.
What has changed since then? Your attitude is still the same.
I dare say your writing has improved, but that's unfortunately relative, not much of a compliment.

I believe that God have put something in all of us that causes us to seek after truth.
even the ones who don't believe in God makes an attempt to locate the source of his existence, also he searches for a reason and his purpose here,this is our common ground

Quite right!
Now... why don't you develop this line of thinking here in this thread?

This is why i'm urging him again to... ...take some time to reflect/meditate on the moral of the story.

even when this is done both stories are still in contradiction when reflected/meditated upon, anyone familiar with the messages
cannot ignore their core opposing content

An interesting point - but one that might be at odds with the previous quote...
Megadoc, can you quickly sum up these "stories", showing their contradictions? Not all might be "familiar with the messages".

[brainchild]

and he shall reply....aye look d spike yo!!

[megadoc1]

and then someone found it fit to go backward

So?
Ashamed of your past?never !!!!! not in christ
Is this an admittance of error? yes on the thought that we moved away from insulting each other and sticking to the topic
or wounded pride?(none exist)

Look man, grow a pair.
what? I am not offended by anything here mih boy , I am just pointing out that some on here could only focus on the individual and not the topic at hand.we were talking about the God of the bible and the God of the quran while some find it more interesting to talk about megadoc, I honestly thought we came along way from that
This just shows that you very well know that even then, while you claimed you knew the answers, you now know that you were off-key/out of line and unable to read the map/compass you proudly bore. what shows this? it's ok to make your accusations but I cannot see what shows this
What has changed since then? a lot .... for a while there was an absence of little boys throwing insults or hurling insults at one another



Your attitude is still the same.that's never the issue my friend, I am not the topic..........we all have the option to ignore one another further more I will not be entertaining anything unless it deals specifically with the topic at hand,
you said "grow a pair", If anyone have a problem with me, guess what? they should "grow a pair"

I dare say your writing has improved, but that's unfortunately relative, not much of a compliment.as small as it is, from you means a lot to me thank you!

I believe that God have put something in all of us that causes us to seek after truth.
even the ones who don't believe in God makes an attempt to locate the source of his existence, also he searches for a reason and his purpose here,this is our common ground

Quite right!
Now... why don't you develop this line of thinking here in this thread?
I have ....

This is why i'm urging him again to... ...take some time to reflect/meditate on the moral of the story.

even when this is done both stories are still in contradiction when reflected/meditated upon, anyone familiar with the messages
cannot ignore their core opposing content

An interesting point - but one that might be at odds with the previous quote...
not necessarily mr d spike as these messages are the proposed answers
to what I quoted before but they are not in agreement with each other
Megadoc, can you quickly sum up these "stories", showing their contradictions? Not all might be "familiar with the messages"
I was about to do this but I became the topic ,those who are not familiar with the messages should shut up until they are, they cant choose to come in this ched defending anything,calling me names,attempting to advise me, and not be aware of any thing concerning the messages ..you often accused me of not knowing of what I speak about, mr d spike ...why not tell them the same?

now where was I ? ..oh yess the God of the bible is not the god of the quran......
before anyone respond,or get offended make sure you have read both the bible and the quran for yourself

[illumin@ti]

and then someone found it fit to go backward

Backward? you still on the same page we left you on since page ~83 of this thread. I have, just as many more people who have contributed and tried to understand why you think and believe in what you think with such ferocity, come to the conclusion that you just hooked up wrong yes. YOU claimed many times that you are the stuff of legend. Your group/church/cult/whatever can heal people - you said cancer - brought no proof, yet want to throw scorn upon the beliefs of others. You are a fraud and a hypocrite. I repeat...

YOU ARE A FRAUD

YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE

Its a pity many wouldn't dare go back to the start of this thread and marked every convolution and contradiction your 'faith' has taken between page 1 and now. It is also a pity that others like yourself seem to always have a following of equally blind/gullible/dotish followers that would be ready to believe anything that would take their minds off the reality that is the now of this world.

As abrasive as it may be in its delivery, I believe the only thing that has changed in and of you is that yuh pass CXC English. However you have still missed the part in GP where they teach about Logic, Coherence and Emphasis in the delivery of your thoughts to others. Nothing out of your mouth thus far in my opinion is an original thought made in your own mind. Everything,,,, every point, opinion and analysis has been the regurgitation or copy n paste of some far-right christian supremacist website.. I mean really??? you gonna do like Bluefete and try to debate scientific fact taught in schools around the world since 19-how-long with cut-n-pastes from a christian religion based and biased website?? how logical is that?? And you dare call others illogical??? Boss you really blind yes. What you call 'Faith' - your belief that what you think is right and just and none other is right/ that your interpretation of God pwns all and that gives you the right to piss n shyt all over what everyone else believes. Ur a distastefully arrogant tyrant homie.
What about tolerance?
What about humility?
What about understanding?
what about truly caring about the wellfare of your fellow non-Christian brothers?

You have learned nothing, in the 200+ pages of this thread

[insert] your ignorant chest-beating here [/insert]

allyuh so,,, allyuh good yes

[megadoc1]

oh yess the God of the bible is not the god of the quran......
before anyone respond,or get offended make sure you have read both the bible and the quran for yourself

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ have you read the entire Qu'ran?
not a transliteration eh

[illumin@ti]

ah want him to lie and say yes

[megadoc1]

^ have you read the entire Qu'ran?
not a transliteration eh

what are you asking?
I read and english version of the bible
and an english version of quran

should I ask a Muslim or even you if you have read the bible in hebrew or greek?
no! this is not the issue
no matter what language they are in the messages they both bring remains the same respectively
they are opposing to each other and thats what I am talking about
for example: the God of the bible love sinners vs the god of the quran that hates sinners and unbelievers
lets deal with that and stop playing small minded games

[d spike]

oh yess the God of the bible is not the god of the quran......

Fundamentalist nonsense.
A clear example of the need to display as errant the beliefs of others that I had referred to earlier.
When megadoc had posted a large amount of cut n' pasted material along these lines earlier, I almost brought myself to respond - but I let the nonsense pass for different reasons:
the one to whom it was directed seemed to be cut from the same cloth as megadoc, and I was interested to see if he would be able to respond at the level it was written - clearly megadoc didn't write it, and the possibility of him being able to even conceive of a few of the arguments posed was laughable;
if megadoc were able to prepare even a simple rebuttal to a responding argument, it would have been a clear indication that he had indeed progressed rationally (I wondered if he even understood half of what he posted)... but neither his antagonist nor he were able to even touch those arguments afterward... a pity... it would have been a pleasant surprise to witness either party wield the "logic" they both seemed fond of mentioning.

While I may disagree with brainchild, he raises some very valid (and - I'm sorry, megadoc - indisputable) points. Whenever man comes in contact with the divine, he goes away with HUMAN concepts of what he experienced. A fundamentalist like yourself should have no problem understanding that, after reading Ezekiel.

What is your problem with the concept of Gabriel appearing to a fellah, and trying to deliver messages and explain stuff to him?
Maybe (for the sake of argument) he didn't understand some or much of what he was told, so what?
Haven't angels appeared to many folks in the bible and tried to send messages and explain stuff? Who are you, you puny mortal, to dictate who should receive messengers and messages from above?

Through the ages, louder and more strident voices (that had sufficient muscle to back them up) chose the direction and interpretation of the messages they were responsible for handing on down.

I believe that God have put something in all of us that causes us to seek after truth.
even the ones who don't believe in God makes an attempt to locate the source of his existence, also he searches for a reason and his purpose here,this is our common ground

Again I ask you, how many supreme beings are there up there, jostling for our attention?
If a man directs his prayers to "God", the supreme being, who else could it go to by mistake?

And don't come with that demonic nonsense again - I didn't respond directly then, for I prefer not to expose certain things here, as such discussions in public are pointless, except as an exercise in pride. However, I will tell you that evil will tell you what you are ITCHING to hear, including referring to itself by names you would be satisfied to hear.

Learning does not mean acquiring more stuff to pelt at other folks... the only two things you have demonstrated since I last attempted to communicate with you at length are:
performing the cut n' paste procedure;
maintaining the same attitude.
It could be argued that you have since learned to parrot certain non-fundamentalist phrases that show humanist and universal concepts - but you promptly deny those concepts in your direct responses...

Once again, you try to shrug off arguments by claiming "it's not about you"... but it is. Many of your direct statements hint at being Christian in origin, but are clearly concoctions fomented in the troubled minds of folks who think they are Christian. (Just because one is a Christian, does not mean one's outlook is a Christian one, neither does it mean any opinion one holds is automatically a Christian one - and this goes for any religion.)
You display concepts/ideas/opinions and claim them to be Christian ones. They aren't. They are yours, and thus the corrections would be directed at you - not the religion you ally yourself with, which you have always shown a limited understanding of.

Cheers.

[megadoc1]

the God of the bible is not the god of the quran......
before anyone respond,or get offended make sure you have read both the bible and the quran for yourself

tell me this is not so

[d spike]

the God of the bible love sinners vs the god of the quran that hates sinners and unbelievers
lets deal with that and stop playing small minded games

Small minded games like what? Ignoring large parts of scripture?

the God of the bible love sinners

Sure. He loved them so much he smote entire cities full of 'em.

Just because the Muslims claim Gabriel appeared to their founder, some folks get steamed. Apparently, certain angels are the property of certain religions.
Why is it so hard to accept that God sent one of his errand-boys to some guy in the desert? Isn't that what happened throughout the bible?
So, because the guy didn't say and do stuff you feel happy with, that negates the whole affair? or is proof that it didn't happen?
Who did angels appear to?
Gideon? Didn't he afterward make an idol out of loot after a battle? Good guy, eh? Just practised a little idol-worship on the side, eh?
Balaam? How did he die again? Fighting on the side of the homeboys? Nope. It was they who put his lights out.
Samson? Tower of strength, that guy... just not so great in other areas, like obedience to God...
So Mohammed came away, believing that good is better than evil, respect of God is a good idea, praying and fasting is good for you, and spreading these ideas is a worthy action... so what?

[megadoc1]

^ I really thought there was a difference between justice and hate
anyways
no one who read both the bible and the quran comes to the conclusion that they
are representing the same God.the Muslims would soon say that the bible is corrupt
and the Christians will call the Qur'an a lie all because they contradict each other.
let us examine the two ideologies

[d spike]

So, the Jesus of the Bible and the Jesus of the Koran are two different people.
Horsefeathers.
What each group think about this person is clearly affected by their belief system.
The Christian belief system is based squarely on the concept that Jesus was the Son of God, who though truly God and truly man at the same time, died, and yet rose from the dead. Their concept of who Jesus was/is will be heavily coloured by this.
The Muslims consider Jesus to be a prophet. Mohammed is their star-boy, not Jesus. Scriptural stories that were told of Jesus would have been well-known in Mohammed's time, and these stories ended up in Mohammed's lectures. Of course, those aspects of the Christians' Jesus that were in conflict with what Mohammed and his followers believed possible would have been overlooked as being a result of misdirected fervour: God's offspring, certain claims surrounding his demise, and suchlike.
Are we expected to believe that because Muslims and Christians cannot agree on certain aspects of the life of a person born about 2000 years ago, that they are therefore talking about two different people? Childish nonsense.

[megadoc1]

I like what yuh saying
now can you tell me about salvation? and how it relates to Islam and Christianity?

[d spike]

^ I really thought there was a difference between justice and hate

Psalm 5:5-6, "You (God) cannot stand the sight of proud men; you hate all wicked people. You destroy all liars and despise violent, deceitful men."

Psalm 11:5, "He (God) examines the good and the wicked alike; the lawless he hates with all his heart."

Lev. 20:23, “Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I shall drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them.”

Prov. 6:16-19, “There are six things which the Lord hates, yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil, a false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers.”

Hosea 9:15, “All their evil is at Gilgal; indeed, I came to hate them there! Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of My house! I will love them no more; All their princes are rebels.”

Romans 9:13, “As the scripture says, 'Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.' "

Oh yeah. The "Christian" God is full of justice, not hate. I guess those few quotes above must have been stuck in by Muslim sympathizers...

[megadoc1]

I really thought there was a difference between justice and hate
also I see you use the term "christian God" wouldn't he be known as a loving God?
to bad you have to take that from the old testament...
but as we stand today
the christian God loves sinners the muslim god hates sinners and unbelievers

[d spike]

I really thought there was a difference between justice and hate

Don't be silly. Semantics? You started it.

now can you tell me about salvation? and how it relates to Islam and Christianity?

Why that topic?
What about how hajj relates to Islam and Christianity?
The concept of "Salvation" is a Christian one. Just because one religion sees a particular concept as important does not mean it is important to all. (The concept of the Trinity is another good example.) If the two faiths do not share a concept, then certainly one of them will not be able to "relate" to that concept. Your wanting to discuss such a concept is precisely what is meant by stressing/promoting the differences that exist between such faiths.

to bad you have to take that from the old testament...

Why? is the Old Testament no longer regarded as Christian scripture? That's a laugh, especially coming from a fundamentalist.

[bluefete]

Spikey: Let me take a few minutes from my studies.

The Old Testament was based on Mosaic Law and customs. Thus the preponderance of non-forgiving sins and death.

When Jesus Christ came, the same Mosaic laws were in place. For example, the adultress whom men wanted to stone leading to Jesus' immortal words: "He that is without sin ..." (John 8:7)

The difference is that Jesus preached a gospel of forgiveness over death. His own death was a sacrifice of love over sin.

Islam has similar concepts to the Mosaic Law but it also leaves room for forgiveness. Example, a family that has been wronged can either require the death penalty or forgive the perpetrator.

Mega's arguments focus on the forgiving nature of Jesus and sometimes this may seem at odds with the Old Testament.

It is well known that Muslims revere Jesus and Mary but do not worship Jesus as Christians do.

At then end of the day there is only one God but there are many false Gods (fallen angels/demons).

Note that both Islam and Christianity have a God who despises EVIL and has taken drastic action against people who refuse to forsake their evil ways.

The Bible and the Qu'ran clearly outline the fate that awaits those who insist on living evilly.

How people perceive God will continue to be the subject of debate until the end of time (if time has an end) or until Jesus returns (whichever comes first).

[16 cycles]

jumping on the merry-go-round....

most religions ask followers to refrain from immoral behaviour and set up a 'justice' system with God as the judge to try guide people to do the right thing.....

why focus on the 'justice' system present in each????

[megadoc1]

to bad you have to take that from the old testament...

Why? is the Old Testament no longer regarded as Christian scripture? That's a laugh, especially coming from a fundamentalist.

no don't pretend to not understand, you know exactly what I am speaking about
but feel free to do what yuh do.

anyways the God of the bible says there will be no marriage or sex in heaven, no male or female.
but the god of the quran promises orgies, virgins as wives which automatically means there would be male and female ...
If the God of the bible and the god of the quran is one and the same
why is he elevating the christian's nature by giving them a new uncorrupted one
but leaving the muslims to behave like animals in heaven? is he an unjust God?

[brainchild]

Interprtation is the name of the game! Why can't we understand that man was man 2000 years ago just as they are today...capable of corruption and the like, the same as now. We allow changes like old and new testament, we buy every word wholeheartedly, allow different sects in the same religion, allow the modern world to affect how we worship, claim to be strong in our chosen faith and allow laws contrary to our beliefs to be passed (gay marriage, no prays in public schools etc)....but somehow we just can't accept the possibilty that our religious texts may be corrupted, words altered , tailoring a message to suit the ppl.

What if Mohammed realised that a promise of virgins would encourage more followers?

What if the promise of a worry free heaven through salvation would encourage the poverty ridden ppl of that area to follow easier?



I'm not saying this is what took place for sure, but i'm asking the question...is such a concept so implausible?

Don't beat me up fellas...simple question to segue from megadocs inability to broaden his mind past a certain point.

[d spike]

to bad you have to take that from the old testament...

Why? is the Old Testament no longer regarded as Christian scripture? That's a laugh, especially coming from a fundamentalist.

no don't pretend to not understand, you know exactly what I am speaking about
but feel free to do what yuh do.

"Don't pretend to not understand"????
I understand very well, thank you. You quote scripture carte blanche to support your nonsense, and when someone else does it to you, you ignore them.
You cannot make such general statements about a collection of writings that spans centuries, languages, cultures, religions, and diverse points of view.

anyways the God of the bible says there will be no marriage or sex in heaven, no male or female.

Where did you get this compost from?

[brainchild]

i think he's refferring to this Galatians 3:28
28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

But it kinda plain to see that the real meaning of this is that HE judges everyone equally. Poor mega...can't even understand is own scripture

[megadoc1]

the God of the bible declares a man righteous the moment he believes in Jesus
and he promised to remember his sins no more

the god of the Qur'an requires that a man work for his own righteousness
which will be weighed against his sins at the last day

[sMASH]

we don't work towards righteousness, dude. we do what we are instructed to do, which is over all, to be good towards the other creations. we cannot do good to god because he cannot benefit from it. by demonstrating that we do what he says and have consideration for the rest of every thing we hope to gain good favor from god. by utilizing what he has created to learn about what he has created as well as increasing our beings we show appreciation.

we do not work towards righteousness but towards reward in heaven, and that is gained by obedience to god. the ideal would be that if we could condition ourselves to do as god would like us to do so that we do it without even thinking about gaining a reward.

and that is why condemning other people should not be done, cause they could be living a life according to god's will more than u, and just because some things they do, do not line up with what u were taught, doesn't mean their overall works are not inline with god's intention for us.
as well as, god is the judge at the end, not us, so it is not our place to say who going to hell or not.

[megadoc1]

ok
the God of the bible declares a man righteous the moment he believes in Jesus Christ
and he promised to remember his sins no more

[d spike]

now can you tell me about salvation? and how it relates to Islam and Christianity?

Why that topic?
What about how hajj relates to Islam and Christianity?
The concept of "Salvation" is a Christian one. Just because one religion sees a particular concept as important does not mean it is important to all. (The concept of the Trinity is another good example.) If the two faiths do not share a concept, then certainly one of them will not be able to "relate" to that concept. Your wanting to discuss such a concept is precisely what is meant by stressing/promoting the differences that exist between such faiths.

the God of the bible declares a man righteous the moment he believes in Jesus
and he promised to remember his sins no more

the god of the Qur'an requires that a man work for his own righteousness
which will be weighed against his sins at the last day

You went ahead with your song and dance about "salvation", ignoring what I told you... well, it wasn't the first time...
Go ahead and continue stressing the differences, rather than the similarities... you'll find the disharmony and discord that you're looking for.

[megadoc1]

the god of the bible says he will come and dwell in those who believe in the name of the one who He sent
the Muslims sees this as a form of possession



If the god presented in the quran is the same God presented in the bible,
he should be all knowing,why then does the god presented in the quran
thinks that the Christians believe in three gods when in fact they only believe in one God?
was he misinformed?

[sMASH]

nope, u guys were, by paul. and we go in circles again.