The Religion Discussion

[mitsuboi]

Lawwwd when alyuh done alyuh go quote out d Whole Qu'ran and Whole Bible

[megadoc1]

duane I am not quoting the bible to prove the quran wrong, never need to,( muslims employ that tactic against the bible and this is a response to that)

I am exposing the fallacies employed by Muslims to
brand the bible as corrupted, in doing so,it will require the examination
of some scriptures from both the bible and the Qur'an.as that is the way they do what they do.
I am not here to prove the quran wrong, the quran takes that burden upon itself,
even before it is used to discredit the bible.
I am only pointing out the deception involved when the Muslim tries to address it ..


and yess turbo head can quote the qu'ran and say the bible is wrong and thats what I am responding to in the first place...as you already agree that its pointless for him to be doing so but thats what they learn to do,
its not if either of us can prove it as there is only one accusation at hand..that is, 'the bible is corrupted' the one who is accusing is the one needs to prove his accusation and he does so by quoting his quran and the bible(scripture),it only serves, to use said scripture to keep him in check and expose his erroneous arguments. (where scripture is concerned)


for example:
when he says "i am awaiting mega's response to my previous post. i want him to show me where in the bible where Jesus(pbuh) said 'i am God worship me' and i will fall and prostrate with my christians bredrin"

I can counter with this...

show a single verse in the Quran where Jesus says "I am not God, do not worship Me", or "I am not the Son of God," or "I didn't come to die for your sins or lay my life as a ransom for many" in those exact words

[brainchild]

What end do u all see to this argument? Bcos it's nothing that hasn't been said before....in fact that's probably how the crusades got started! Agree to disagree and retreat to your respective corners. The funny thing is all this debating about technical details goin on and u both pray to the same God essentially. It's like coke and pepsi...who cares which taste better...drink what u like!

[megadoc1]

we don't pray to the same God,,,, YWHW and ALLAH are two separate beings
most people mistake them for the same being.

[brainchild]

So wat are you guys arguing about? If you talkin bout two different entities what is there to compare? It's like you arguing with a scientologist then, bcos u walk in the door already knowing that you have different beliefs so what's the point in arguing? Nothing will be changed in the end...Go your separate ways!

[Kasey]

^^megaduck is incapable of this friend. ACORDING TO HIM,HIS WAY IS RIGHT AND EVERYONE ELSES IS WRONG.

[sMASH]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-13278255

[Titanium_007]

With such claim made that "most people" mistake them for the same being, do explain your statement please.

[brainchild]

With such claim made that "most people" mistake them for the same being, do explain your statement please.

I try to leave that alone not to get him started again....but here we go again! The answer doesn't matter really, if mega believes dat, dats how it will stay(to him)...he will not admit otherwise.

[Titanium_007]

brainchild, I am not going to argue with him you know, as you are aware, ignorant are those who keep adding and arguing their beliefs and must be satisfied are say that they are right, however, we are entitled to our own opinions. All I ask is why, very simple because he has to obviously know much more than the religious and spiritual to make such a claim

[brainchild]

he has to obviously know much more than the religious and spiritual to make such a claim

Nope...dats the ting

[Titanium_007]

And I agree with you so that makes a person ignorant, not knowing more than those who spent their life researching yet bashing. This thread is for experiences, not ignorance or insult to other religions and beliefs.

[turbohead]

i didnt quote the quran to prove the bible wrong i quoted the bible to show where you supposed to believe in one God but still choose to go down the road of trinity

[megadoc1]

So wat are you guys arguing about? If you talkin bout two different entities what is there to compare?
nothing.... and thats what I am saying all along, you can't attempt to compare to different
entities and then when it is clear that they do not line up, you turn to say that it is corrupted, that's the fallacy I am exposing, that is my argument....


It's like you arguing with a scientologist then, bcos u walk in the door already knowing that you have different beliefs so what's the point in arguing?
I like your analogy but in this case the Scientologist isn't claiming to be serving the same god as me so and of course it will be ridiculous to do such comparison,that's what I am telling the Muslims on here, as soon as they understand such, your analogy would be spot on

[megadoc1]

With such claim made that "most people" mistake them for the same being, do explain your statement please.

Titanium_007 welcome ....where do i start...
the God of the bible is known as YHWH
and the god of the quran is known as ALLAH(arabic for god)
now if you are familiar with both religious texts
one will soon see that they oppose one another
for example :
the God of the bible is intimate ,he has a son and makes covenants with his people
the god of the Qur'an is distant ,he has no son and have no or does not keep his covenants(example: the covenant made with Israel in the bible is non existent in the quran)
as you go on you would realize that there are many opposing issues
when comparing the bible with the quran, soon anyone using logic will come to the
conclusion that the texts are describing separate gods.

but most think that because it mentioned jesus or mary or abraham
it is speaking about the same God but thats not the case..

If i show you to spec sheets of engines they may both mention fuel injectors,
distributor,four pistons,starter and ngk spark plugs, they are both engines but that doesn't mean the are the same engine
especially if the spec sheets in detail documented differing cam shaft design,amount of valve per cylinders and even design,heat/speed tolerance level and other parameters(just like the bible and the quran)

the Muslims sees these differing details but instead of understanding or accepting that there is a difference,
they call the "opposing" text corrupt only accepting whatever is the same for their engine
whats worse is one engine is stamped KA while the other is stamped SR


anyone who claims that the God of the bible and the god of the quran is the same
has never read the Koran, or has never read the Bible.

[megadoc1]

i didnt quote the quran to prove the bible wrong i quoted the bible to show where you supposed to believe in one God but still choose to go down the road of trinity

didnt you know Christians believe in one God?
how many time you need to be told this?

[sMASH]

^ yeah, which one? u have 3 to choose from

[sMASH]

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

With such claim made that "most people" mistake them for the same being, do explain your statement please.

Titanium_007 welcome ....where do i start...
the God of the bible is known as YHWH
and the god of the quran is known as ALLAH(arabic for god)
now if you are familiar with both religious texts
one will soon see that they oppose one another
for example :
the God of the bible is intimate ,he has a son and makes covenants with his people
the god of the Qur'an is distant ,he has no son and have no or does not keep his covenants(example: the covenant made with Israel in the bible is non existent in the quran)
as you go on you would realize that there are many opposing issues
when comparing the bible with the quran, soon anyone using logic will come to the
conclusion that the texts are describing separate gods.

but most think that because it mentioned jesus or mary or abraham
it is speaking about the same God but thats not the case..

If i show you to spec sheets of engines they may both mention fuel injectors,
distributor,four pistons,starter and ngk spark plugs, they are both engines but that doesn't mean the are the same engine
especially if the spec sheets in detail documented differing cam shaft design,amount of valve per cylinders and even design,heat/speed tolerance level and other parameters(just like the bible and the quran)

the Muslims sees these differing details but instead of understanding or accepting that there is a difference,
they call the "opposing" text corrupt only accepting whatever is the same for their engine
whats worse is one engine is stamped KA while the other is stamped SR


anyone who claims that the God of the bible and the god of the quran is the same
has never read the Koran, or has never read the Bible.

what kinda logic is that?

using your analogy you agree that the two engines DO exist and they are engines! And the specs of BOTH the engines are TRUE
Therefore you are saying that Allah exists and YHWH exists and the individual accounts of BOTH are TRUE. How can this be? They BOTH created the universe?

clearly both accounts are referencing the SAME God, just with varying details; either one of the accounts is inaccurate or both are inaccurate.

[megadoc1]

i didnt quote the quran to prove the bible wrong i quoted the bible to show where you supposed to believe in one God but still choose to go down the road of trinity

didnt you know Christians believe in one God?
how many time you need to be told this?

yeah, which one? u have 3 to choose from

dun c boi , I said one God His name is YAHWEH
what you don't get is the fact that
I believe God is YAWEH
I believe Jesus is YAWEH
and the holy spirit is YAHWEH
anyone of them I worship is YAWEH=one God
until you understand that, I won't be entertaining your posts

what kinda logic is that?

using your analogy you agree that the two engines DO exist and they are engines! And the specs of BOTH the engines are TRUE
yes they do exist and the specs in respects of both engines are held to be true


Therefore you are saying that Allah exists and YHWH exists and the individual accounts of BOTH are TRUE. yes.......based on both accounts the bible says YHWH exists and the quran says ALLAH exists, both are held to be true respectively

They BOTH created the universe?
yes that's what both texts claim but due to logic only one can be true

How can this be? simple both are believed to be true by each of their respected adherents/followers /believers but according to the laws of logic one can only be true, this is whats needs to be proven, as both accounts contradicts each other in the most sacred and critical characteristics of the respected deity,especially whenever the idea of them being the same is put forward




clearly both accounts are referencing the SAME God
nope....not clearly don't be fooled

just with varying details; the details are at the core characteristics of both
items,which are very important and critical concerning the respected deity


either one of the accounts is inaccurate or both are inaccurate.
both can be inaccurate, no one is disputing that
but both cannot be accurate, only one can be, this is what needs to be proven the burden of proof is on the accuser

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ I am amazed that you do not see the flaws in your logic there

also why is the burden of proof on the accuser?
this thread started with you making claims about your God.

In any discussion, the person making a claim bears the burden of proving its validity.
You can't make a claim and then say "prove me wrong" in order to lay the burden of proof on the person who does not believe your claim.

You have not proven your claims so far.

[megadoc1]

^ I am amazed that you do not see the flaws in your logic there
point them out please

also why is the burden of proof on the accuser
you did explain it below


this thread started with you making claims about your God.
this is not what these last posts are about!!! you know better, don't try this, I will ignore any further attempts to turn things on me

In any discussion, the person making a claim bears the burden of proving its validity.
agreed!!!!! now tell that to the muslims


You have not proven your claims so far.CURRENTLY this ain't about my claims!!!! its about the claims the muslims makes that the bible is corrupted please stay focus on the issue ...I am not up to this twisting games ..why are you are being incoherent?

back to the current topic at hand

Is Allah Identical to the God and Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ?

by Ergun Mehmet Caner
This is a difficult question, especially in the English language. Linguistically,
anyone who uses the term “God” is basically saying the same thing:

They are referring to the uncreated Creator of the universe. In this fashion, Muslims, Jews, Christians, Hindus, and all others are referring to the Lord of the universe when they
use the term “God.”


With regard to Islam, the similarities of Allah and Jehovah are greater for two
reasons: (1) Islam embraces monotheism, which means “one God,” just like
Christianity and Judaism, and (2) Muhammad used many of the people cited
in the Bible when he created the Qur’an, such as Noah (Surah 6:84), Jacob (Surah 2:132), and Jesus (Surah 3:45–47).


The similarities end there however.

Think of Islam as a form of “medieval Mormonism.” Like Mormonism, Islam is based on the faulty premise that the Bible’s
description of God and Jesus Christ is incorrect. Like Mormonism, Islam teaches that
both Christianity and Judaism are false religions, and that Islam through the Qur’an is the only true faith.

Ultimately, this is not an issue of vocabulary; it is an issue of definition. The Allah of
the Qur’an is described and defined in a way that clearly shows Muhammad was not presenting the same God. The God of Islam is remote, and not intimate (Surah 112).
Allah does not have a son (Surah 2:116), is not a Trinity (Surah 5:72), and does not
love unconditionally (Surah 8:53). In Islam, Jesus is simply a prophet, and emphatically is not the Son of God (Surah 5:72), and the angel Gabriel is the Holy Spirit (Surah 2:193).

Remember, when Muhammad was alive (A.D. 570–632), the Bible was already in
its complete canonical form. This is not an issue of ignorance. Muhammad, living just
over 700 miles south of Jerusalem, knew the Bible and rejected it. Instead, he
created a system that changed the nature and attributes of God, but still used the
name.

Indeed, these differences cover the entire theology of Christianity. In Islam, there are “angels” that are created from fire (called jinn, Surah 72), a Tree of Zaqqum in hell (Surah 3:62–67), and virgin servants in heaven (Surah 4:57). In fact, even the creation in Islam is corrupted. In Islam, Satan’s fall was due to his unwillingness to bow to Adam (Surah 2:34).

In summation, one can state it thus: Islam rejects the fatherheart of God, the divinity of the Son, and the person of the Holy Spirit. You cannot change the nature of the God of the Bible without changing the “god” you are presenting. It is not the same God.

[sMASH]

i didnt quote the quran to prove the bible wrong i quoted the bible to show where you supposed to believe in one God but still choose to go down the road of trinity

didnt you know Christians believe in one God?
how many time you need to be told this?

yeah, which one? u have 3 to choose from

dun c boi , I said one God His name is YAHWEH
what you don't get is the fact that
I believe God is YAWEH
I believe Jesus is YAWEH
and the holy spirit is YAHWEH
anyone of them I worship is YAWEH=one God

but why stop there, u are yaweh, i iz yaweh, the tree is yaweh.
so u say that the one god name is yaweh, so god=yaweh.
if u substitute that in the three that u put u get:
i believe god is god
i believe jesus is god
and teh holy spirit is god

is see a redundancy there which is not really necessary



we are talking bout the same god, is just as duane says, we ascribe different traits to that being. u say he is in three forms while we say he is singular and indivisible.
u say that he removes sin by killing himself and making it available for us, we just have to take it, and we say he does so at his own will, when ever he desires, and we have no input into it, as he is the judge on judgement day, by his will not ours.
u say that he is a jealous god, and we say he has not need of being jealous as every thing is his creation any way.
u say that u need not know more than what he tells u in ur book, we say that he sent our book as a guide on how to live with the things with his creation, and he made it all as tests for us in how we interact with every thing.

[turbohead]

so mega when you ting of the father son and holy ghost do you conjure one mental picture or three separate pictures? if God is uncreated then how would you validate Jesus being God or the Holy spirit because they were created by the almighty. Jesus according to you had an end already. God can have no end he is limitless. read yuh bible over and stop making stupid claims and fake claims from the bible which isnt in there. show me the verse where it says worship the father son and holy ghost as one.... you keep saying jibraeel is the devil comin as an angel of light but didnt he also come to mary to tell her of the coming of Jesus? then Jesus would be the son of the devil....

[Titanium_007]

With such claim made that "most people" mistake them for the same being, do explain your statement please.

Titanium_007 welcome ....where do i start...
the God of the bible is known as YHWH
and the god of the quran is known as ALLAH(arabic for god)
now if you are familiar with both religious texts
one will soon see that they oppose one another
for example :
the God of the bible is intimate ,he has a son and makes covenants with his people
the god of the Qur'an is distant ,he has no son and have no or does not keep his covenants(example: the covenant made with Israel in the bible is non existent in the quran)
as you go on you would realize that there are many opposing issues
when comparing the bible with the quran, soon anyone using logic will come to the
conclusion that the texts are describing separate gods.

but most think that because it mentioned jesus or mary or abraham
it is speaking about the same God but thats not the case..

If i show you to spec sheets of engines they may both mention fuel injectors,
distributor,four pistons,starter and ngk spark plugs, they are both engines but that doesn't mean the are the same engine
especially if the spec sheets in detail documented differing cam shaft design,amount of valve per cylinders and even design,heat/speed tolerance level and other parameters(just like the bible and the quran)

the Muslims sees these differing details but instead of understanding or accepting that there is a difference,
they call the "opposing" text corrupt only accepting whatever is the same for their engine
whats worse is one engine is stamped KA while the other is stamped SR


anyone who claims that the God of the bible and the god of the quran is the same
has never read the Koran, or has never read the Bible.

what kinda logic is that?

using your analogy you agree that the two engines DO exist and they are engines! And the specs of BOTH the engines are TRUE
Therefore you are saying that Allah exists and YHWH exists and the individual accounts of BOTH are TRUE. How can this be? They BOTH created the universe?

clearly both accounts are referencing the SAME God, just with varying details; either one of the accounts is inaccurate or both are inaccurate.

So megadoc1 is saying, more than 1 God created this world? That more than 1 God powered the existence of every being in this universe? this planet? all the avatars that walked this earth came from different Gods? Aren't you forgetting God is formless? EVERY BEING that exist among us today derived from a source of energy, known God. Scientists aren't sure as to how the very single cell organism was created in this universe, how can the big bang cause that? what caused the big bang? cant be due to coincidence, then our existence and intelligence is just a coincidence due to single cell organisms just popping out of no where and evolved to all that exists now? try thinking outside the box and get the bigger picture, look beyond religion, Look at how it all started, not what took place when mankind existed. If u look at it that way, then you think very narrow minded.

[megadoc1]

So megadoc1 is saying, more than 1 God created this world?
That more than 1 God powered the existence of every being in this universe?
this planet? all the avatars that walked this earth came from different Gods?
no far from it, re read what I wrote
I said we have differing/opposing accounts concerning the characteristics of the God of creation,when the quran and the bible is compared, according to the laws of logic only one can be true

Aren't you forgetting God is formless? I don't see what this have to do with the topic at hand

[megadoc1]

so mega when you ting of the father son and holy ghost do you conjure one mental picture or three separate pictures? one,thats YAWEH

if God is uncreated then how would you validate Jesus being God or the Holy spirit because they were created by the almighty.according to the bible Jesus and the Holy spirit was never created they always existed in the Godhead of YAWEH
even Jesus made this claim "before Abraham was I am" and prayed this prayer
I have glorified You on the earth
by completing the work You gave Me to do.

Now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence

with that glory I had with You

before the world existed.


Jesus according to you had an end already.no that's not according to me
this is according to me, he laid down his life for our sins and took it back up
there is no end there

God can have no end he is limitless. read yuh bible over and stop making stupid claims and fake claims from the bible which isnt in there.yes it is clear that you need to do that

show me the verse where it says worship the father son and holy ghost as one....
would you accept verses that shows all three is the one YAWEH that I worship?


you keep saying jibraeel is the devil comin as an angel of light but didnt he also come to mary to tell her of the coming of Jesus? the Gabriel in the bible is not the gabriel in the quran based on their messages

then Jesus would be the son of the devil....
wow ...so as long as the gabriel of the quran is of God, Jesus of the bible is in fact the son of GOD?
kool so why gabriel in the quran say allah have no son?
yuh see how yuh tying up yourself

but why stop there, u are yaweh, i iz yaweh, the tree is yaweh.
no ... I am megadoc,you are smash and the tree maybe a zaboca tree for all i know,
you do the ridiculous thing when you say we are the same in-spite of our varying/opposing characteristics


so u say that the one god name is yaweh, so god=yaweh.
if u substitute that in the three that u put u get:
i believe god is god
i believe jesus is god
and teh holy spirit is god

is see a redundancy there which is not really necessary
no there is no redundancy there you are mistaken, the way you use allah as arabic for god
is not the same YAWEH is used for God, YAWEH is His name



we are talking bout the same god, is just as duane says, we ascribe different traits to that being. u say he is in three forms while we say he is singular and indivisible.
u say that he removes sin by killing himself and making it available for us, we just have to take it, and we say he does so at his own will, when ever he desires, and we have no input into it, as he is the judge on judgement day, by his will not ours.
u say that he is a jealous god, and we say he has not need of being jealous as every thing is his creation any way.
u say that u need not know more than what he tells u in ur book, we say that he sent our book as a guide on how to live with the things with his creation, and he made it all as tests for us in how we interact with every thing.
and still you want to claim they are the same? no they are not the same,
not by their definitions

[turbohead]

so mega when you ting of the father son and holy ghost do you conjure one mental picture or three separate pictures? one,thats YAWEH

if God is uncreated then how would you validate Jesus being God or the Holy spirit because they were created by the almighty.according to the bible Jesus and the Holy spirit was never created they always existed in the Godhead of YAWEH
even Jesus made this claim "before Abraham was I am" and prayed this prayer
I have glorified You on the earth
by completing the work You gave Me to do.

Now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence

with that glory I had with You

before the world existed.


Jesus according to you had an end already.no that's not according to me
this is according to me, he laid down his life for our sins and took it back up
there is no end there

God can have no end he is limitless. read yuh bible over and stop making stupid claims and fake claims from the bible which isnt in there.yes it is clear that you need to do that

show me the verse where it says worship the father son and holy ghost as one....
would you accept verses that shows all three is the one YAWEH that I worship?


you keep saying jibraeel is the devil comin as an angel of light but didnt he also come to mary to tell her of the coming of Jesus? the Gabriel in the bible is not the gabriel in the quran based on their messages

then Jesus would be the son of the devil....
wow ...so as long as the gabriel of the quran is of God, Jesus of the bible is in fact the son of GOD?
kool so why gabriel in the quran say allah have no son?
yuh see how yuh tying up yourself

but why stop there, u are yaweh, i iz yaweh, the tree is yaweh.
no ... I am megadoc,you are smash and the tree maybe a zaboca tree for all i know,
you do the ridiculous thing when you say we are the same in-spite of our varying/opposing characteristics


so u say that the one god name is yaweh, so god=yaweh.
if u substitute that in the three that u put u get:
i believe god is god
i believe jesus is god
and teh holy spirit is god

is see a redundancy there which is not really necessary
no there is no redundancy there you are mistaken, the way you use allah as arabic for god
is not the same YAWEH is used for God, YAWEH is His name



we are talking bout the same god, is just as duane says, we ascribe different traits to that being. u say he is in three forms while we say he is singular and indivisible.
u say that he removes sin by killing himself and making it available for us, we just have to take it, and we say he does so at his own will, when ever he desires, and we have no input into it, as he is the judge on judgement day, by his will not ours.
u say that he is a jealous god, and we say he has not need of being jealous as every thing is his creation any way.
u say that u need not know more than what he tells u in ur book, we say that he sent our book as a guide on how to live with the things with his creation, and he made it all as tests for us in how we interact with every thing.
and still you want to claim they are the same? no they are not the same,
not by their definitions

in the places where i highlighted. show me where you saw it in the bible and i will believe it, i dont want any parables, if Jesus was God he would have stated so clearly i mean he is God you say he would simply need to say it and we would believe it.

Jehovah’s Witnesses are guilty of adding to the word of God by added the divine name YHWH in the New Testament where it is never found in the original Greek manuscripts, and blamed the Bible as being corrupted. Rather than trashing their false doctrine, they trash the Bible! Their central premise is that Matthew was written in Hebrew but this is entirely false.

http://www.bible.ca/jw-YHWH-hebrew-matthew.htm

you believe your doctrines on yahweh but they speak differently.

how could someone lay down their life for someting and not be dead? do you really listen to wat you does be saying.

someone said that a father could be a brother and a business man all at the same time and this could be classed as trinity. i would give no objection to it as a man i could be a father, brother and business man at the same time. you would say that father son holy ghost could be the same. the explaination given to this statement was that if the man who was all three was told a secret by someone all parts of him will no this secret, so why when Jesus was asked when the day would come he said that he knew not of it for that is with the father. if he was part of the tri union he would no when it would be. to back this up there is a situation when jibraeel came to Jesus and Jesus asked him when will the day come, Jibraeel answered, for the answerer knows no more that wat the questioner knows.

the one statement which is closest to proving trinity, i cant remember exact ch verse,
'for there are three that bear record in heaven...' and it goes on.
but now in the rsv bible which is backed by 32 scholars of the highest eminence and 15 coperate denomination has removed this statement as an interpolation.

you say that you need to use the bible as the foundation of proving the Quran and give your evidence, what i give you is logic and try understand,
man wrote the bible, but you say was inspired, they bore no record of angel jibraeel comin to them as he was the messenger sent by God to prophets before with the word. this cannot stand up. so from this we could conclude that man wrote the bible. you say that the all wrote separate times and all of them wrote in harmony, but you say that Muhammed(saw) wrote the Quran by using the bible as a foundation and put in his own statements to complete. what stopped matthew, mark, luke, john from copying wholesale from each other because as we know they werent around when each other was writing but their books would have been around. and then paul came and he say well let me put in someting to. and this gave what we know as the "bible" or "God's word". for Muhammed(saw) to write a book so good and with no error he had to be rell good. but we as muslims dont believe that as that would result in us worshiping Muhammed(saw). Jibraeel that came to Muhammed(saw) is in fact the same as the one mentioned in the bible. the Quran which we recite, read and listen today is the same as done in the time of Muhammed(saw) because so many ppl memorized the Quran that ppl couldnt add to it. if they did so then we couldnt accept it. but i give you dare to prove any statment of the Quran as not true word of God.
do you see in the bible were it says the world is flat?

after that do you ting the Quran should be the foundation?

[megadoc1]

in the places where i highlighted. show me where you saw it in the bible and i will believe it, i dont want any parables, if Jesus was God he would have stated so clearly i mean he is God you say he would simply need to say it and we would believe it.
there are many things clearly shown in the bible that you ignore
so I don't see how I can b of any use to you




how could someone lay down their life for someting and not be dead? do you really listen to wat you does be saying. only a God can pull of that stunt ent?

someone said that a father could be a brother and a business man all at the same time and this could be classed as trinity. i would give no objection to it as a man i could be a father, brother and business man at the same time. you would say that father son holy ghost could be the same. the explaination given to this statement was that if the man who was all three was told a secret by someone all parts of him will no this secret, so why when Jesus was asked when the day would come he said that he knew not of it for that is with the father. if he was part of the tri union he would no when it would be.
this is a very valid point here....however we learnt that Jesus humbled himself for a while and became a man to pay for the sins of mankind he step out of His glory
remember the prayer i posted before?
I have glorified You on the earth
by completing the work You gave Me to do.

Now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence

with that glory I had with You

before the world existed.



to back this up there is a situation when jibraeel came to Jesus and Jesus asked him when will the day come, Jibraeel answered, for the answerer knows no more that wat the questioner knows. can you quote this passage for us to examine?

the one statement which is closest to proving trinity, i cant remember exact ch verse,
'for there are three that bear record in heaven...' and it goes on.
but now in the rsv bible which is backed by 32 scholars of the highest eminence and 15 coperate denomination has removed this statement as an interpolation.
ok its still available in the original greek thats not a problem

you say that you need to use the bible as the foundation of proving the Quran and give your evidence, nope I never said that


what i give you is logic and try understand,
you became illogical when you propose that the god of the bible and the one of the quran is one and the same despite their opposing character

man wrote the bible, but you say was inspired, they bore no record of angel jibraeel comin to them as he was the messenger sent by God to prophets before with the word. this cannot stand up. so from this we could conclude that man wrote the bible.
what kind a rubbish is this? look let me leave you yes.
don't look forward to a response from me if you keep posting these kind of crap

[sMASH]

ok, the use of yaweh as the name instead of the term god is reasonable.
u say god is almighty and his name is yaweh. let us substitute god for almighty; god=almighty
so we get:
yaweh is almighty
jesus is almighty
the holy ghost is almighty

this reduces the legitimacy of the term 'almighty'. almighty means nothing else is greater, but then there are three at the top. ok, the three is one so the god head is almighty, but then each is not almighty, but co-mighty.
ok, there are three, they are distinguishable from each other, then they must have different purposes, what are they? if any part fulfills its purpose, does it have to stay or can it depart, or cease to exist? or does it always have work to do?


ok, if the 'rules' say that one part must die to remove the sin from man, when that part regains life, does man get back the sin?
if they don't get back the sin, then the rules are broken because the death is circumvented.
if the rules of 'death to remove sin' is not broken and the life is regained then the death is not a real death, or the rule is not a real rule.

one part of the godhead is referred to as the 'son'. but this part is said to exist since the beginning.
sons are usually heirs of the father. they come afterwards the father, and usually due to some action of the father. they inherit what the father passes down, and usually succeed the father or intended to succeed the father.
starting at the same time as the father reduces the legitimacy of the terms of 'father' and 'son' as they do not fulfill the meanings of the words, and do not fulfill the intended relationship of both terms.