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Bizzare wrote:Megadoc, the religion you seem to defend does not allow one to indulge in certain activities, but rather be an example of Jesus Christ himself. I wanna know something b4 I proceed. How long have you been "saved"?
# And it was after this that the Lord said to Moses, Say unto the children of Israel to avenge upon Midian the cause of their brethren the children of Israel.
# And Moses did so, and the children of Israel chose from amongst them twelve thousand men, being one thousand to a tribe, and they went to Midian.
# And the children of Israel warred against Midian, and they slew every male, also the five princes of Midian, and Balaam the son of Beor did they slay with the sword.
# And the children of Israel took the wives of Midian captive, with their little ones and their cattle, and all belonging to them.
# And they took all the spoil and all the prey, and they brought it to Moses and to Elazer to the plains of Moab.
# And Moses and Elazer and all the princes of the congregation went forth to meet them with joy.
# And they divided all the spoil of Midian, and the children of Israel had been revenged upon Midian for the cause of their brethren the children of Israel.
yuh gone back claiming your beliefs in God are not religionmegadoc1 wrote:you are already in error if you think I am defending a religion btw
Then Adam said to God, "O Lord, You created us, and made us fit to be in the garden; and before I transgressed, You made all beasts come to me, that I should name them. 4 Your grace was then on me; and I named every one according to Your mind; and you made them all subject to me. 5 But now, O Lord God, that I have transgressed Your commandment, all beasts will rise against me and will devour me, and Eve Your handmaid; and will cut off our life from the face of the earth. 6 I therefore beg you, O God, that since You have made us come out of the garden, and have made us be in a strange land, You will not let the beasts hurt us." 7 When the Lord heard these words from Adam, He had pity on him, and felt that he had truly said that the beasts of the field would rise and devour him and Eve, because He, the Lord, was angry with the two of them on account of their transgressions. 8 Then God commanded the beasts, and the birds, and all that moves on the earth, to come to Adam and to be familiar with him, and not to trouble him and Eve; nor yet any of the good and righteous among their offspring. 9 Then all the beasts paid homage to Adam, according to the commandment of God; except the serpent, against which God was angry. It did not come to Adam, with the beasts. '
Then God, merciful and gracious, looked at them thus lying in the water, and close to death, and sent an angel, who brought them out of the water, and laid them on the seashore as dead. 2 Then the angel went up to God, was welcome, and said, "O God, Your creatures have breathed their last." 3 Then God sent His Word to Adam and Eve, who raised them from their death. 4 And Adam said, after he was raised, "O God, while we were in the garden we did not require, or care for this water; but since we came to this land we cannot do without it." 5 Then God said to Adam, "While you were under My command and were a bright angel, you knew not this water. 6 But now that you have transgressed My commandment, you can not do without water, wherein to wash your body and make it grow; for it is now like that of beasts, and is in want of water." 7 When Adam and Eve heard these words from God, they cried a bitter cry; and Adam entreated God to let him return into the garden, and look at it a second time. 8 But God said to Adam, "I have made you a promise; when that promise is fulfilled, I will bring you back into the garden, you and your righteous descendants." 9 And God ceased to commune with Adam.
"kind of strange no ?? cause according to GENESIS god made light and darkness lol..Then Adam beat his chest, he and Eve, and they mourned the whole night until the crack of dawn, and they sighed over the length of the night in Miyazia. 2 And Adam beat himself, and threw himself on the ground in the cave, from bitter grief, and because of the darkness, and lay there as dead. 3 But Eve heard the noise he made in falling on the ground. And she felt about for him with her hands, and found him like a corpse. 4 Then she was afraid, speechless, and remained by him. 5 But the merciful Lord looked on the death of Adam, and on Eve's silence from fear of the darkness. 6 And the Word of God came to Adam and raised him from his death, and opened Eve's mouth that she might speak. 7 Then Adam stood up in the cave and said, "O God, why has light departed from us, and darkness covered us? Why did you leave us in this long darkness? Why do you plague us like this? 8 And this darkness, O Lord, where was it before it covered us? It is because of this that we cannot see each other. 9 For so long as we were in the garden, we neither saw nor even knew what darkness is. I was not hidden from Eve, neither was she hidden from me, until now that she cannot see me; and no darkness came over us to separate us from each other.
O Adam, I drove you from the garden, and made you come forth into this land; and commanded you to live in this cave; and darkness covered you, as it did over him who transgressed My commandment. 10 Thus, O Adam, has this night deceived you. It is not to last forever; but is only of twelve hours; when it is over, daylight will return. 11 Sigh not, therefore, neither be moved; and say not in your heart that this darkness is long and drags on wearily; and say not in your heart that I plague you with it. 12 Strengthen your heart, and be not afraid. This darkness is not a punishment. But, O Adam, I have made the day, and have placed the sun in it to give light; in order that you and your children should do your work. 13 For I knew you would sin and transgress, and come out into this land. Yet I wouldn't force you, nor be heard over you, nor shut up; nor doom you through your fall; nor through your coming out from light into darkness; nor yet through your coming from the garden into this land. 14 For I made you of the light; and I willed to bring out children of light from you and like to you
* Reference: John 12:46Then Adam said to God: "O Lord, take You my soul, and let me not see this gloom any more; or remove me to some place where there is no darkness." 2 But God the Lord said to Adam, "Indeed I say to you, this darkness will pass from you, every day I have determined for you, until the fulfillment of My covenant; when I will save you and bring you back again into the garden, into the house of light you long for, in which there is no darkness*. I will bring you to it -- in the kingdom of heaven." 3 Again said God to Adam, "All this misery that you have been made to take on yourself because of your transgression, will not free you from the hand of Satan, and will not save you. 4 But I will. When I shall come down from heaven, and shall become flesh of your descendants, and take on Myself the infirmity from which you suffer, then the darkness that covered you in this cave shall cover Me in the grave, when I am in the flesh of your descendants. 5 And I, who am without years, shall be subject to the reckoning of years, of times, of months, and of days, and I shall be reckoned as one of the sons of men, in order to save you." 6 And God ceased to commune with Adam.
5 "O Lord, plague me not, neither consume me, nor yet take away my life from the earth." 6 For he thought the sun was God. 7 Because while he was in the garden and heard the voice of God and the sound He made in the garden, and feared Him, Adam never saw the brilliant light of the sun, neither did its flaming heat touch his body. 8 Therefore he was afraid of the sun when flaming rays of it reached him. He thought God meant to plague him therewith all the days He had decreed for him. 9 For Adam also said in his thoughts, as God did not plague us with darkness, behold, He has caused this sun to rise and to plague us with burning heat. 10 But while he was thinking like this in his heart, the Word of God came to him and said: -- 11 "O Adam, get up on your feet. This sun is not God; but it has been created to give light by day, of which I spoke to you in the cave saying, 'that the dawn would come, and there would be light by day.' 12 But I am God who comforted you in the night." 13 And God ceased to commune with Adam.
I was willing to show you a bit until you became aggrandize. first of you are not doing me a favor you made a claim ,back it up simple as that
So to its fair enough if you want to dispute me, then do the research and find out for your self.I am not here to dispute you I have no interest in doing so
dark_lord_tnt wrote:(jousha 3 - 9:13)יהושע אמר לבני ישראל, בוא לכאן ולשמוע את דברי ה 'אלוהי. זה אלוהים חיים הוא בכם כי הוא ילחם איתך נגד הכנענים החיתים והחוי והפרזי הגרגשי האמרי ואת היבוסי. ראה, את ארון ברית ה 'כל הארץ ילכו מעבר לירדן לפניך. אז עכשיו לבחור שנים עשר אנשים מכל שבטי ישראל אחד מכל שבט. וברגע הכהנים אשר לשאת את ארון יהוה את האדון של רגל כל קבוצה האדמה מעל הירדן בארץ הכנעני, ומימיו זורמים במורד הזרם עלמו עבור לורד יגוועו ברעב האויב ש.
Joshua said to the Israelites, Come here and listen to the words of the LORD your God. This living God is among you and that he will go into battle with you against the Canaanites, Hittites, Hivites, Perizzites, Girgashites, Amorites and Jebusites. See, the ark of the covenant of the Lord of all the earth will go across the Jordan ahead of you. Now then, choose twelve men from the tribes of Israel, one from each tribe. And as soon as the priests who carry the ark of the LORD—the Lord of all the earth—set foot over the Jordan in the land of the Canaanites, its waters flowing downstream will vanish for the lord will starve your enemy.
then this
dark_lord_tnt wrote:I did stop short of the translation. However It was not misleading. You see if the ark never entered the water, The how can the priest stand there with it ?? It was already across. So therefore your REST of the text could not be accurate. Cant blame you though thats the material you have ,, while I translated from copies of the ORIGINAL Hebrew translation from the Greek Documents. The difference is vast and the rest of the translation would have lead to an un-necessary argument so I decided not to.. My post was not misleading , nor did the ark ever enter the water nor did they cross on dry land (how they crossed was never fully described, all the text says is that it took 7 days and 7 nights to cross, it never said how nor did it say the waters stood in a heap.)
now when asked to post the rest he saysWhy ??? Do your research and find it :p
It can be found in the Ethiopian bible !!! Ethiopian translation of the book of jousha can be found in English.!!!
whats so hard to post the rest of the documents you were posting from before? all I need is the last few verses for reference 14,15,16,17
Lets get started Characters (people) of the bible and their outcomes
Μαρία ἡ Μαγδαληνή (in americ for i wish not to comment the English reference name),, no comment about this person at this time.
SIMON, the chief of the Apostles, was from Bethsaida, of the tribe of Naphtali. He preached for one year in Antioch, where the disciples were [first] called Christians, and he built there the first church, in the house of Cassianus, whose son he restored to life. He lived in Rome twenty-seven years. He was crucified, head downwards, by Nero, in the 376th year of the Greeks (65-64 B.C.).
ANDREW, his brother, preached in Scythia, Nicomedia, and Achaia. He died in Byzantium and was buried in the church which he built there.
JOHN, the son of Zabhdai (Zebedee), was from Bethsaida, of the tribe of Zebulon. He preached in Ephesus, was exiled to Patmos, and then returned to Ephesus, where he built a church. Three of his disciples went with him:--IGNATIUS, p. 254 later bishop of Antioch, who was thrown to the beasts in Rome; POLYCARP, later bishop of Smyrna who was burnt to death; and JOHN, who succeeded him as bishop. John, the son of Zebedee, was buried by John, his disciple, at Ephesus, and his grave is unknown. John, his disciple, was also buried at Ephesus. He wrote the Revelation, and said that all he had written in that book he had received from John the Evangelist.
JAMES, the brother of John, preached in Bethsaida and built a church there. Herod Agrippa slew him with the sword in the year following the Ascension of our Lord. He was buried at Âkâr, a city of Marmârîkâ.
PHILIP, from Bethsaida, was of the tribe of Asher. He preached in Phrygia, Pamphylia and Pisidia; he died in Pisidia, and was buried in the church which he built there. He lived as an apostle 27 years.
THOMAS, from Jerusalem, was of the tribe of Judah. He taught the Parthians, Medes and Indians; he baptized the daughter of the Indian king, who had him speared to death. Habbân the merchant brought his body to Edessa and buried it there. Some say he was buried in Mahlûph in India.
MATTHEW, from Nazareth, was of the tribe of Issachar. He preached in Palestine, Tyre and p. 255 Sidon, and went as far as Gabbûlâ (i.e. al-Jabbâl, a town in Coelesyria). He died, and was buried in Antioch.
BARTHOLOMEW, from Endor, was of the tribe of Issachar. He preached in Armenia, Ardeshîr, Ketarbôl, Radbîn and Prûharmân. He first went to Golthon in Armenia, came back to Artaschu, and then went on to Her, Zarevant and Urbianos. He lived as an apostle for 30 years, and then Hûrstî (Rhûstnî or Hêrôstmî), king of Armenia, crucified him in Urbianos. He was buried in the church which he had built in Armenia. The king of Armenia in the time of Bartholomew was called Sanadrog (Sanatruk).
JUDE, the son of James, surnamed THADDAEUS (TADDAI), who is also LEBBAEUS (Lebbai), from Jerusalem, was of the tribe of Judah. He preached in Laodicea, and in Antaradus and Arwâd (Ruwâd). He was stoned in Arwâd, and died and was buried there.
SIMON ZELÔTES, from Galilee, was of the tribe of Ephraim. He preached in Shêmêshât (Samosata), Pârîn (Perrhê), Zeugma, Hâlâb (Aleppo), Mabbôg (Manbig), and Kenneshrîn (Kinnesrîn). He built a church in Kyrrhos, and died and was buried there.
JAMES, the son of Alphaeus (Halphai), was from the Jordan, and of the tribe of Manasseh. He preached in Tadmor (Palmyra), Kirkêsion p. 256 (Kîrkîsîyâ), and Callinicos (ar-Rakkah), and came to Bâtnân of Serûg (Sarug), where he built a church, and died and was buried there.
JUDAS ISCARIOT, the Betrayer, from Sekharyût, was of the tribe of Gad or Dan. MATTHIAS, of the tribe of Reuben, came in his stead. He preached in Hellas and in Sicily, where he built a church, and died, and was buried in it.
JAMES, the brother of our Lord, was cast down from a pinnacle of the Temple whilst preaching in Jerusalem; then a fuller of cloth smashed in his skull with a club, and afterwards they stoned him.
JOHN THE BAPTIST was of the tribe of Levi. Herod the tetrarch slew him, and his body was buried in Sebastia.
ANANIAS (HANANYÂ), John's disciple, taught in Damascus and Arbîl. Pôl, the general of Aretas (Aristus) slew him, and he was buried in his church at Arbil.
PAUL, of Tarsus, was a Pharisee and of the tribe of Ephraim (or, Benjamin ?). He went to Peter at Rome, and Nero ordered them to be slain. On their way to the place of slaughter they gave the laying on of hands of the priesthood to their disciples, Peter to Mark, and Paul to Luke. Peter was crucified and Paul was beheaded, and Mark and Luke brought their p. 257 bodies into the city. But Paul's head could not be found. At length a shepherd found it, and he laid it by his sheep-fold. At night a fire blazed over it, and the shepherd went and told bishop Xystus and the clergy, and when they saw the head they recognized it as Paul's head. They laid the head at the feet of Paul's body, and, having prayed the whole night, the head was found to have joined itself to the body. From his call to the end of his life was 35 years; he travelled for 31 years, and he was in prison at Caesarea for two years, and for two years in Rome. He was martyred in the thirty-sixth year after the Passion of our Lord, and was buried in the royal catacombs in Rome.
LUKE, the physician and Evangelist, was a disciple of Lazarus, and was baptized by Philip in the city of Beroea. He was beheaded by Hôros, the governor of Alexandria under Tiberius, whilst preaching there; he was buried in that city.
MARK the Evangelist preached in Rome, and died and was buried there. He was either the son of Simon Peter's wife or the son of Simon; and Rhoda was his sister. He was first called John, but the Apostles changed his name to Mark.
ADDAI, from Paneas, preached in Edessa and Mesopotamia in the days of Abhgar the king; he p. 258 built a church in Edessa. Herod, son of Abhgar, slew him in the fortress of Aggêl, or Engîl, north of Amid. He was buried either in Edessa or Rome.
AGGAI, the disciple of Addai, was a silk weaver; because he refused to give up his preaching, Herod, son of Abhgar, broke his legs with a club and he killed him.
THADDAEUS was slain by Herod, son of Abhgar, and was buried in Edessa.
ZACCHAEUS (Zaccai), the publican, was slain whilst preaching in Mount Hôrôn.
SIMON, the leper, taught in Ramah, and the Jews slew him there.
JOSEPH, the Senator, taught in Galilee and Decapolis, and was buried in Ramah.
NICODEMUS, the Pharisee, the friend of our Lord, died in Jerusalem, and was buried there. Some say that he was buried by his brother Gamaliel in Kephar Gamlâ.
NATHANIEL was stoned whilst preaching in Mount Hôrôn (or, Mount Hebron), and died.
SIMON, the Cyrenian, was slain in the island of Chios.
SIMON, son of Cleopas, was bishop of Jerusalem. At the age of one hundred years he was crucified by Irenaeus (or, Hereôs?), the chiliarch.
STEPHEN was stoned to death in Jerusalem, and was buried in Kephar Gamlâ.
p. 260
MARK (sumamed John) taught at Nyssa and Nazianzus; he built a church at the latter place, and died and was buried there.
GEPHAS (Gal. ii. 9; I Cor. i. 12) taught in Baalbec, Hims (Emesa), and Nathrôn (Batharûn); he died and was buried in Shîrâz (Shaizar ?).
BARNABAS, a native of Cyprus or a member of a family of Cyprians settled in Antioch, undertook two preaching missions in that Island, and then went and preached in Northern Italy and Kûrâ for some time. Later he returned to Cyprus, where, according to one tradition, he suffered martyrdom. The various accounts of his life and preaching are described by Lipsius in his Apostelgeschichte (Bd. ii. Heft 2, pp. 276-320).
TITUS taught in Crete, and died and was buried there.
SOSTHENES taught in Pontus and Asia, and was cast into the sea by Nonnus, the prefect.
CRISCUS (CRESCENS) taught in Dalmatia; he died of hunger in Alexandria.
JUSTUS taught in Tiberias and Caesarea, where he died and was buried.
ANDRONICUS taught in Illyricum, where he died and was buried.
RUFUS was slain whilst teaching in Zeugma.
PATROBAS taught in Chalcedon, and died there.
p. 260
HERMAS, the shepherd, taught in Antioch and died there.
NARCISSUS taught in Hellas, and died there.
ASYNCRITUS went to Bêth-Hûzâyê (Ahwâz, Khûzistân), and died there.
ARISTOBULUS taught in Isauria, and died there.
ONESIMUS, the slave of Philemon, fled to Paul in Rome, where his legs were broken, and he died.
APOLLOS was burned to death by Sparacleus (?), governor of Gangra.
OLYMPAS, STACHYS and STEPHEN died in prison in Tarsus.
JUNIAS was slain in Samos.
THEOCRITUS died in Ilios.
MARTALUS (I) was slain by the Barbarians.
NIGER taught in Antioch, and died there.
LUCIUS was dragged behind a horse and died.
ALEXANDER was thrown into a pit in Heracleôpolis (Hierapolis ?) and died.
MILUS was drowned at Rhodes.
SILVANUS and HERÔDIÔN (Rhôdiôn) were slain at Accô.
SILAS taught at Sarapolis (Hierapolis ?), and died there.
TIMOTHY taught in Ephesus, and died there.
MANAEL was burned to death in Accô.
The EUNUCH of Candace was strangled on the island of Parparchia.
p. 261
JASON and SOSIPATRUS were thrown to the beasts in Olmius.
DEMAS taught in Thessalonica, and died there.
OMIUS (HYMENAEUS) taught in Melitene, and died there.
THRASEUS was thrown into a fiery furnace at Laodicea.
BISTORIUS (ARISTARCHUS) taught in the island of Kâ, and died there.
ABRIOS and MÔTOS died in Ethiopia.
LEVI was slain in Paneas by Charmus.
NICETIANUS (NICETAS) was sawn in twain in Tiberias.
JOHN and THEODORUS were thrown to the beasts at Baalbec.
EUCHESTION (?) and SIMON were slain by Methalius in Byzantium.
EPHRAIM (APHREM) taught in Baishân, and died there.
JUSTUS was slain at Corinth.
JAMES taught in Nicomedia, and died there.
)) and say this is the truth!! It may not be, and it could be recycled from far older text's that go way back to the start of man kind as we know it!!... or how the universe works at sub atomic levels the list is endless.. At the moment it is "creation" that is the hot topic and also what started the universe on the exspansion we see now.. How did that start?? Not one physicist can give a 100% guarantee of there model, as the furthest we can see back in time is around 300'000 years after the event (bigbang?) or what ever it was happened that created the cosmic microwave background.. It is real and yes it is there!!!...(static on your TV is remance of this event!!!) 
... Are There Any Errors in the Bible?
By Norman L. Geisler
The Bible cannot err, since it is God's Word, and God cannot err. This does not mean there are no difficulties in the Bible. But the difficulties are not due to God's perfect revelation, but to our imperfect understanding of it. The history of Bible criticism reveals that the Bible has no errors, but the critics do. Most problems fall into one of the following categories.
Assuming the Unexplained Is Unexplainable
When a scientist comes upon an anomaly in nature, he does not give up further scientific exploration. Rather, the unexplained motivates further study. Scientists once could not explain meteors, eclipses, tornadoes, hurricanes, and earthquakes. Until recently, scientists did not know how the bumblebee could fly. All of these mysteries have yielded their secrets to relentless patience. Scientists do not now know how life can grow on thermo-vents in the depths of the sea. But no scientist throws in the towel and cries "contradiction!" Likewise, the true biblical scholar approaches the Bible with the same presumption that there are answers to the unexplained. Critics once proposed that Moses could not have written the first five books of the Bible because Moses' culture was preliterate. Now we know that writing had existed thousands of years before Moses. Also, critics once believed that Bible references to the Hittite people were totally fictional. Such a people by that name had never existed. Now the Hittites' national library has been found in Turkey. Thus, we have reason to believe that other unexplained phenomena in Scripture will be explained later.
Assuming the Bible is Guilty of Error Unless Proven Innocent
Many critics assume the Bible is wrong until something proves it right. However, like an American citizen charged with an offense, the Bible should be read with at least the same presumption of accuracy given to other literature that claims to be nonfiction. This is the way we approach all human communications. If we did not, life would not be possible. If we assumed that road signs and traffic signals were not telling the truth, we would probably be dead before we could prove otherwise. If we assumed food packages are mislabeled, we would have to open up all cans and packages before buying. Likewise, the Bible, like any other book, should be presumed to be telling us what the authors said, experienced, and heard. But, negative critics begin with just the opposite presumption. Little wonder they conclude the Bible is riddled with error.
Confusing our Fallible Interpretations with God's Infallible Revelation
Jesus affirmed that the "Scripture cannot be broken" (John 10:35, NASB). As an infallible book, the Bible is also irrevocable. Jesus declared, "Truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the Law, until all is accomplished" (Matt. 5:18; Luke 16:17, NASB). The Scriptures also have final authority, being the last word on all it discusses. Jesus employed the Bible to resist the tempter (see Matt. 4:4, 7, 10), to settle doctrinal disputes (see Matt. 21:42), and to vindicate his authority (see Mark 11:17). Sometimes a biblical teaching rests on a small historical detail (see Heb. 7:4-10), a word or phrase (see Acts 15:13-17), or the difference between the singular and the plural (see Gal. 3:16). But, while the Bible is infallible, human interpretations are not. Even though God's Word is perfect (see Ps. 19:7), as long as imperfect human beings exist, there will be misinterpretations of God's Word and false views about his world. In view of this, one should not be hasty in assuming that a currently dominant assumption in science is the final word. Some of yesterday's irrefutable laws are considered errors by today's scientists. So, contradictions between popular opinions in science and widely accepted interpretations of the Bible can be expected. But this falls short of proving there is a real contradiction.
Failure to Understand the Context
The most common mistake of all Bible interpreters, including some critical scholars, is to read a text outside its proper context. As the adage goes, "A text out of context is a pretext." One can prove anything from the Bible by this mistaken procedure. The Bible says, "There is no God" (Ps. 14:1, NASB). Of course, the context is: "The fool has said in his heart 'There is no God.' " One may claim that Jesus admonished us not to resist evil (see Matt. 5:39), but the antiretaliatory context in which he cast this statement must not be ignored. Many read Jesus' statement to "Give to him who asks you," as though one had an obligation to give a gun to a small child. Failure to note that meaning is determined by context is a chief sin of those who find fault with the Bible.
Interpreting the Difficult by the Clear
Some passages are hard to understand or appear to contradict some other part of Scripture. James appears to be saying that salvation is by works (see James 2:14-26), whereas Paul teaches that it is by grace. Paul says Christians are "saved through faith; and that not of yourselves. It is a gift of God: Not of works, lest anyone should boast" (Eph. 2:8-9; Rom. 4:5, KJV). But the contexts reveal that Paul is speaking about justification before God (by faith alone), whereas James is referring to justification before others (who only see what we do). And James and Paul both speak of the fruitfulness that always comes in the life of one who loves God.
Forgetting the Bible's Human Characteristics
With the exception of small sections such as the Ten Commandments, which were "written by the finger of God" (Ex. 31:18, NASB), the Bible was not verbally dictated. The writers were not secretaries of the Holy Spirit. They were human composers employing their own literary styles and idiosyncrasies. These human authors sometimes used human sources for their material (see Josh. 10:13; Acts 17:28; 1 Cor. 15:33; Titus 1:12). In fact, every book of the Bible is the composition of a human writer-about forty of them in all. The Bible also manifests different human literary styles. Writers speak from an observer's standpoint when they write of the sun rising or setting (see Josh. 1:15). They also reveal human thought patterns, including memory lapses (see 1 Cor. 1:14-16), as well as human emotions (see Gal. 4:14). The Bible discloses specific human interests. Hosea has a rural interest, Luke a medical concern, and James a love of nature. Like Christ, the Bible is completely human, yet without error. Forgetting the humanity of Scripture can lead to falsely impugning its integrity by expecting a level of expression higher than that which is customary to a human document. This will become more obvious as we discuss the next mistakes of the critics.
Assuming a Partial Report Is a False Report
Critics often jump to the conclusion that a partial report is false. However, this is not so. If it were, most of what has ever been said would be false, since seldom does time or space permit an absolutely complete report. For example, Peter's famous confession in the Gospels:
Matthew: "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God" (16:16, NASB).
Mark: "You are the Christ" (8:29, NASB).
Luke: "The Christ of God" (9:20, NASB).
Even the Ten Commandments, which were "written by the finger of God" (Deut. 9:10), are stated with variations the second time they are recorded (see Ex. 20:8-11 with Deut. 5:12-15). There are many differences between the books of Kings and Chronicles in their description of identical events, yet they harbor no contradiction in the events they narrate.
Assuming New Testament Citations of the Old Testaments must be Verbatim
Critics often point to variations in the New Testament use of Old Testament Scriptures as a proof of error. They forget that every citation need not be an exact quotation. Sometimes we use indirect and sometimes direct quotations. It was then (and is today) perfectly acceptable literary style to give the essence of a statement without using precisely the same words. The same meaning can be conveyed without using the same verbal expressions.
Variations in the New Testament citations of the Old Testament fall into different categories. Sometimes they are because there is a change of speaker. For example, Zechariah records the Lord as saying, "they will look on me whom they have pierced" (12:10, NASB). When this is cited in the New Testament, John, not God, is speaking. So it is changed to "They shall look on him whom they pierced" (John 19:37, NASB).
At other times, writers cite only part of the Old Testament text. Jesus did this at His home synagogue in Nazareth (see Luke 4:18-19 citing Isa. 61:1-2). In fact, He stopped in the middle of a sentence. Had He gone any farther, He could not have made His central point from the text, "Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing" (vs. 21). The very next phrase, "And the day of vengeance of our God," (see Isa. 61:1-2) refers to His second coming.
Sometimes the New Testament paraphrases or summarizes the Old Testament text (see Matt. 2:6). Others blend two texts into one (see Matt. 27:9-10). Occasionally a general truth is mentioned, without citing a specific text. For example, Matthew said Jesus moved to Nazareth "that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene" (Matt. 2:23, KJV). Notice, Matthew quotes no given prophet, but rather "prophet" in general. Several texts speak of the Messiah's lowliness. To be from Nazareth, a Nazarene, was a byword for low status in the Israel of Jesus' day.
Assuming Divergent Accounts Are False
Because two or more accounts of the same event differ, does not mean they are mutually exclusive. Matthew 28:5 says there was one angel at the tomb after the resurrection; whereas John informs us there were two (see 20:12). But these are not contradictory reports. An infallible mathematical rule easily explains this problem: Where there are two, there is always one. Matthew did not say there was only one angel. There may also have been one angel at the tomb at one point on this confusing morning and two at another. One has to add the word "only" to Matthew's account to make it contradict John's. But if the critic comes to the texts to show they err, then the error is not in the Bible, but in the critic.
Likewise, Matthew (see 27:5) informs us that Judas hanged himself. But Luke says that "he burst open in the middle and all his intestines gushed out" (Acts 1:18, NASB). Once more, these accounts are not mutually exclusive. If Judas hanged himself from a tree over the edge of a cliff or gully in this rocky area, and his body fell on sharp rocks below, then his entrails would gush out just as Luke vividly describes.
Presuming That the Bible Approves of All It Records
It is a mistake to assume that everything contained in the Bible is commended by the Bible. The whole Bible is true (see John 17:17), but it records some lies, for example, Satan's (see Gen. 3:4; John 8:44) and Rahab's (see Josh. 2:4). Inspiration encompasses the Bible fully in the sense that it records accurately and truthfully even the lies and errors of sinful beings. The truth of Scripture is found in what the Bible reveals, not in everything it records. Unless this distinction is held, it may be incorrectly concluded that the Bible teaches immorality because it narrates David's sin (see 2 Sam. 11:4), that it promotes polygamy because it records Solomon's (see 1 Kings 11:3), or that it affirms atheism because it quotes the fool as saying "there is no God" (Ps. 14:1, NASB).
Forgetting That the Bible is Nontechnical
To be true, something does not have to use scholarly, technical, or so-called "scientific" language. The Bible is written for the common person of every generation, and it therefore uses common, everyday language. The use of observational, nonscientific language is not unscientific, it is merely prescientific. The Scriptures were written in ancient times by ancient standards, and it would be anachronistic to superimpose modern scientific standards upon them. However, it is no more unscientific to speak of the sun standing still (see Josh. 10:12) than to refer to the sun "rising" (see Josh. 1:16). Meteorologists still refer to the times of "sunrise" and "sunset."
Assuming Round Numbers Are False
Like ordinary speech, the Bible uses round numbers (see Josh. 3:4; 4:13). It refers to the diameter as being about one-third of the circumference of something (see 1 Chron. 19:18; 21:5). While this technically is only an approximation (see Lindsell, 165-66); it may be imprecise from the standpoint of a technological society to speak of 3.14159265 as "3," but it is not incorrect. It is sufficient for a "cast metal sea" (see 2 Chron. 4:2) in an ancient Hebrew temple, even though it would not suffice for a computer in a modern rocket. One should not expect to see actors referring to a wristwatch in a Shakespearean play, nor people in a prescientific age to use precise numbers.
Neglecting to Note Literary Devices
Human language is not limited to one mode of expression. So, there is no reason to suppose that only one literary genre was used in a divinely inspired Book. The Bible reveals a number of literary devices. Whole books are written as poetry (e.g., Job, Psalms, Proverbs). The Synoptic Gospels feature parables. In Galatians 4, Paul utilizes an allegory. The New Testament abounds with metaphors (see 2 Cor. 3:2-3; James 3:6), similes (see Matt. 20:1; James 1:6), hyperbole (see John 21:25; 2 Cor. 3:2; Col. 1:23), and even poetic figures (see Job 41:1). Jesus employed satire (see Matt. 19:24; 23:24). Figures of speech are common throughout the Bible.
It is not a mistake for a biblical writer to use a figure of speech, but it is a mistake for a reader to take a figure of speech literally. Obviously when the Bible speaks of the believer resting under the shadow of God's "wings" (see Ps. 36:7) it does not mean that God is a feathered bird. When the Bible says God "awakes" (see Ps. 44:23), as though he were sleeping, it means God is roused to action.
Forgetting That Only the Original Text Is Inerrant
Genuine mistakes have been found-in copies of Bible text made hundreds of years after the autographs. God only uttered the original text of Scripture, not the copies. Therefore, only the original text is without error. Inspiration does not guarantee that every copy is without error, especially in copies made from copies made from copies made from copies. For example, the King James Version (KJV) of 2 Kings 8:26 gives the age of King Ahaziah as 22, whereas 2 Chronicles 22:2 says 42. The later number cannot be correct, or he would have been older than his father. This is obviously a copyist error, but it does not alter the inerrancy of the original.
First, these are errors in the copies, not the originals. Second, they are minor errors (often in names or numbers) which do not affect any teaching. Third, these copyist errors are relatively few in number. Fourth, usually by the context, or by another Scripture, we know which is in error. For example, Ahaziah must have been 22. Finally, though there is a copyist error, the entire message comes through. For example, if you received a letter with the following statement, would you assume you could collect some money?
"#OU HAVE WON $20 MILLION."
Even though there is a mistake in the first word, the entire message comes through-you are 20 million dollars richer! And if you received another letter the next day that read like this, you would be even more sure:
"Y#U HAVE WON $20 MILLION."
The more mistakes of this kind there are (each in a different place), the more sure you are of the original message. This is why scribal mistakes in the biblical manuscripts do not affect the basic message of the Bible.
Confusing General with Universal Statements
Like other literature, the Bible often uses generalizations. The book of Proverbs has many of these. Proverbial sayings, by their very nature, offer general guidance, not universal assurance. They are rules for life, but rules that admit of exceptions. Proverbs 16:7, HCSB affirms that "when a man's ways please the Lord, He makes even his enemies to be at peace with him." This obviously was not intended to be a universal truth. Paul was pleasing to the Lord and his enemies stoned him (Acts 14:19). Jesus was pleasing the Lord, and his enemies crucified him. Nonetheless, it is a general truth that one who acts in a way pleasing to God can minimize his enemies' antagonism.
Proverbs are wisdom (general guides), not law (universally binding imperatives). When the Bible declares "You shall be holy, for I am holy" (Lev. 11:45, NASB), then there are no exceptions. Holiness, goodness, love, truth, and justice are rooted in the very nature of an unchanging God. But wisdom literature applies God's universal truths to life's changing circumstances. The results will not always be the same. Nonetheless, they are helpful guides.
Forgetting That Later Revelation Supersedes Earlier Ones
Sometimes critics do not recognize progressive revelation. God does not reveal everything at once, nor does he lay down the same conditions for every period of history. Some of his later revelations will supersede his earlier statements. Bible critics sometimes confuse a change in revelation with a mistake. That a parent allows a very small child to eat with his fingers but demands that an older child use a fork and spoon, is not a contradiction. This is progressive revelation, with each command suited to the circumstance.
There was a time when God tested the human race by forbidding them to eat of a specific tree in the Garden of Eden (see Gen. 2:16-17). This command is no longer in effect, but the later revelation does not contradict this former revelation. Also, there was a period (under the Mosaic law) when God commanded that animals be sacrificed for people's sin. However, since Christ offered the perfect sacrifice for sin (see Heb. 10:11-14), this Old Testament command is no longer in effect. There is no contradiction between the later and the former commands.
Of course, God cannot change commands that have to do with his unchangeable nature (see Mal. 3:6; Heb. 6:18). For example, since God is love (see 1 John 4:16), he cannot command that we hate him. Nor can he command what is logically impossible, for example, to both offer and not offer a sacrifice for sin at the same time and in the same sense. But these moral and logical limits notwithstanding, God can and has given noncontradictory, progressive revelations which, if taken out of its proper context and juxtaposed, can look contradictory. This is as much a mistake as to assume a parent is self-contradictory for allowing a 16-year-old to stay up later at night than a 6-year-old.
In summation, the Bible cannot err, but critics can and have. There is no error in God's revelation, but there are errors in our understanding of it. Hence, when approaching Bible difficulties, the wisdom of St. Augustine is best: "If we are perplexed by any apparent contradiction in Scripture, it is not allowable to say, The author of this book is mistaken; but either [1] the manuscript is faulty, or [2] the translation is wrong, or [3] you have not understood." (Augustine, City of God 11.5)
Sources
G. L. Archer, Jr., An Encyclopedia of Biblical Difficulties
W. Arndt, Bible Difficulties
---, Does the Bible Contradict Itself?
Augustine, City of God.
Augustine, Reply to Faustus the Manichaean, in P. Schaff, ed., A Select Library of the Nicene and Ante-Nicene Fathers of the Christian Church
N. L. Geisler, "The Concept of Truth in the Inerrancy Debate," ., October-December 1980
---and T. Howe, When Critics Ask
---and W. E. Nix, General Introduction to the Bible
J. W. Haley, Alleged Discrepancies of the Bible
H. Lindsell, The Battle for the Bible
J. Orr, The Problems of the Old Testament Considered with Reference to Recent Criticism
J. R. Rice, Our God-Breathed Book-The Bible
E. Thiele, The Mysterious Numbers of the Kings of Israel
R. Tuck, ed., A Handbook of Biblical Difficulties
R. D. Wilson, A Scientific Investigation of the Old Testament
An argument or claim is said to be ad hoc if the only apparent reason for proposing it is to save one's theory
Joshua's Conquest: Did It Happen?
Robert M. Bowman, Jr.
Manager, Apologetics & Interfaith Evangelism
North American Mission Board
The reliability of the account of the Conquest in the book of Joshua has been challenged on two fronts. First, many critics argue that it simply did not happen, at least not in any way similar to the account in Joshua. Second, many critics argue that the idea that God authorized the Israelites to conquer the people of Canaan and kill not only men but, in some instances, women and children, is immoral, and therefore evidence that the Bible is not inspired. This article addresses the first objection; I will address the second objection in a separate article.
"We Didn't Do It—and Here's Why We Did"
The first point to be made about these criticisms is that they are actually incompatible with each other. Who offers theological justification for doing something they didn't do?
Critics of the Bible almost uniformly assert both that Joshua didn't fight the dramatic battles of conquest recorded in the book of Joshua and that the biblical writers rationalized the Israelites' supposedly immoral battles of conquest by claiming that God told them to wage them. Richard Dawkins, for example, describes the book of Joshua as "a text remarkable for the bloodthirsty massacres it records and the xenophobic relish with which it does so," while asserting at the same time, specifically with regard to Joshua's conquest of Jericho, that "it didn't happen."1 But this doesn't make any sense. People do not create theological justifications for things that they did not do.
It gets worse when one considers the larger context in which the divine command to wage a war of conquest against the Canaanites is set. The claim of the Pentateuch is that the Israelites were reticent to invade Canaan at all and did so only after a generation died in the wilderness. If we apply the "criterion of embarrassment" (more familiar perhaps in its widespread application by biblical scholars to the Gospels) to the Pentateuchal narrative, the portrayal of the generation that left Egypt as hardheaded and hardhearted unbelievers who died ignominiously in the wilderness must be assigned considerable credibility. It requires no little ad hoc reasoning2 to maintain that a biblical author justified Israel's supposedly immoral (and fictitious!) wars of aggression by glorifying Israel as God's dutiful army at the same time as he scathingly condemned Israel's cowardice and unbelief. Nor can Pentateuchal source criticism help here, since both motifs are found in the same putative sources.
The best escape from this problem would be to claim that the biblical authors created the fiction of Israel's cowardice and unbelief to underscore the claim that the conquest and massacre of Canaanites was God's idea and not Israel's. But such an explanation undermines the basic claim that is being made against the Old Testament narrative, namely, the claim that the authors were writing from the perspective of a culture that erroneously assumed the legitimacy of wars of aggression and the notion that God must be on the side of the victor. Writers who approached their subject from such an assumption would not have any reason to invent fictions about their forebears being hopelessly idolatrous and unbelieving on the borders of Canaan despite having witnessed the most stupendous signs and wonders in history.
If Numbers and Deuteronomy are telling us the truth about the Israelites in the wilderness, as I have argued that they are, then we must take much more seriously the claim of those same books that God commanded the Israelites to invade and conquer Canaan. To be more precise, we will have to recognize that the idea that God wanted the Israelites to wage their war of conquest against Canaan dates from before the Conquest. The theory that this belief arose as an after-the-fact theological justification begins to lose credibility.
Joshua: The Evidence
We have already seen some evidence that the Old Testament account of Israel's conquest of the land of Canaan is at least based in historical fact. Although a great deal could be said on this subject, I will highlight three pieces of evidence that support the historicity of the account found in the Old Testament.
(1) The list of cities in the Transjordan region through which the Israelites passed on their way into the land in Numbers 33:45-50 includes Iyim, Dibon-gad, Abel-shittim, and Jordan. A list of places through which Egyptian armies passed in their military incursions dating from the same general period include these four places in the same order. Ian Wilson in his book The Bible Is History quotes archaeologist Charles Krahmalkov on this point: "The biblical story of the invasion of Transjordan that sets the stage for the conquest of all Palestine is told against a background that is historically accurate. The Israelite invasion route described in Numbers 33:50 was…an official, heavily trafficked Egyptian road through the Transjordan in the Late Bronze Age."3 By itself, this piece of information does not prove that the Conquest happened, but it does lend some credibility to the account.
(2) Although most archaeologists today think that the story of Joshua's conquest of Jericho cannot be true, their reasoning is likely based on a mistaken chronology. As Time magazine recently put it, "Did Joshua conquer the city of Jericho? The walls of this Canaanite city did come tumbling down, say most historians, but centuries before Moses' protégé could have arrived."4 This assessment is based on the conclusions of Kathleen Kenyon, who in the 1950s dated Jericho's fall to around 1500 BC while assuming a late date of around 1200 BC for the Conquest. The issue here, then, is one of chronology. The bottom line is that "the walls" did, in fact, "come a tumblin'down," just as the Bible says, although the current archaeological convention does not date the event to the period indicated by the Bible. Similar chronological difficulties attend the events of the Exodus: there are records of Egypt being devastated by the kinds of plagues recorded in the Book of Exodus, but modern archaeology dates this devastation to a period hundreds of years earlier than the Bible indicates.5 One should not underestimate the extreme complexities and difficulties of calibrating archaeological finds across the region with the chronological information found in ancient written sources.
(3) Scientists have discovered evidence that provides remarkable confirmation of one of the miracles of the Conquest: the crossing of the Jordan River. The book of Joshua reports that when the Israelites began to cross the Jordan opposite Jericho, the waters of the Jordan "rose up in one heap a great distance away at Adam" as they flowed down toward the Dead Sea (Josh. 3:14-17). This damming of the river allowed the Israelites to walk across the riverbed on dry ground. Critics of the Bible routinely claim that no such event occurred, and suggest that the book is crediting Joshua with a miracle similar to the crossing of the Red Sea in order to portray him as Moses' true successor. However, we have good evidence, both internal and external, supporting the historicity of the account of Joshua's crossing of the Jordan.
Adam was a village some fifteen or twenty miles upstream (north) from where the Israelites crossed the river. (They crossed directly across from Jericho.) There is nothing historically or religiously significant about this village other than its role as a "footnote" in this account that would explain why the book of Joshua specifies it as the place where the waters were stopped. Furthermore, a writer composing a "pious fiction" about Joshua stopping the waters of the Jordan would surely have had the waters stop right in front of the Israelites, not miles upstream. This incidental detail clearly indicates that the story is at least based on fact.
But there is more: we now know how the Jordan River was dammed up. The crossing of the Jordan was made possible by a mudslide, itself caused by an earthquake precisely where the book of Joshua specifies. Historical records confirm that such mudslides that temporarily dam up the river have occurred from time to time at that very location on the Jordan, including in the years 1160, 1267, 1546, 1834, 1906, and 1927. With this evidence, we may confidently declare the case closed: The Israelites did indeed cross the Jordan River after it was dammed up several miles upstream from them.6
By the way, the fact that the river was stopped by an earthquake and mudslide does not in any way undermine the Bible's giving God the credit for it. There is nothing wrong with thinking that at least some of the Old Testament wonders may have involved natural processes over which the Lord exercised dramatic sovereign control. Mudslides damming the Jordan did not happen every day; from what we can tell such an event happens there on average once every couple of centuries or so. Yet the river was stopped at just the right time for the Israelites to cross over into the Promised Land and march on Jericho. Ironically, by using such natural processes to bring about some of his dramatic provisions for the people of Israel, God left behind "clues" to the veracity of the biblical accounts that we can examine and verify millennia later.
It would be unreasonable to insist that we be able to prove every detail of an account of events occurring more than three thousand years ago. However, it is rather surprising how much evidence we actually have to corroborate or confirm the account of the Conquest. The skeptic's claim that it never occurred would seem to be the view that should be on the defensive.
Notes
1Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion (Boston and New York: Houghton Mifflin, 2006), 247.
2An argument or claim is said to be ad hoc if the only apparent reason for proposing it is to save one's theory.
3Ian Wilson, The Bible Is History (Washington, DC: Regnery, 1999), 66, quoting Charles Krahmalkov, "Exodus Itinerary Confirmed by Egyptian Evidence," Biblical Archaeological Review, Sept./Oct. 1994, 58.
4Michael D. Lemonick, "Are the Bible's Stories True?" Time, Dec. 18, 1995, 69.
5See, for example, Francis Hitching, The Mysterious World: An Atlas of the Unexplained (New York: Holt, Rinehart and Winston, 1979), especially 173; Emmanuel Anati, The Mountain of God (New York: Rizzoli, 1986); Norman L. Geisler and Ronald M. Brooks, When Skeptics Ask (Wheaton: Victor Books, 1990), 191-96.
6Colin J. Humphreys, The Miracles of Exodus: A Scientist's Discovery of the Extraordinary Natural Causes of the Biblical Stories (San Francisco: HarperSanFrancisco, 2003), 15-27; Wilson, Bible Is History, 73-74; Kenneth A. Kitchen, On the Reliability of the Old Testament (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 2003), 167.
dark_lord_tnt wrote:So your using the bible to justify the bible ??
what did I do for you to arrive at this? please stop with that ridiculous assumption
Why cant you show historical records ??I cannot... I do not have access to those if there are any Besides I wasnt attacking the bible I was attacking the approach to it.as if your approach is the right way ...how then can we determine this? I listed several stuff above that should be important but isnt even in it ? who is to determine this? So in other words your using the justification of man to justify their own justification.. ughhhh ?Why dont you stop assuming a single sided view and actually look at it as if your confirming its contents.
I think you should take your own advice
1.) I never said Jousha didn't cross the jordan,, I know this
I said the text never stated how he crossed it!!!and this is what we are dealing with can you prove it?
2.) There is evidence to suggest the "historical accounts" in the bible were accurate to an extent.yes we know this
3.) There are several books in the bible that are an admitted forgery.
really??? produce your proof and sources thats all
4.) Man and the use of propaganda has corrupted its true meaning therefore whats to be understood isnt applicable anymore for its lost in guile.
this is an opinion of yours do not make the mistake to put it forward as fact
5.) Norman L. Geisler (born 1932) is a Christian apologist and the co-founder of Southern Evangelical Seminary meaning to me that your above post is just BS.. Its a single one sided view of a fanatic. (as i said do research on your sources before using them).i will try thanks
concerning
Joshua (Yehoshua, Yehoshu'a) - יְהוֹשֻׁעַ (יהושוע)
here.. great lets see
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/8721/58940930.jpg
thats the whole page without me retyping anything so you cant say i forged it..
ok so I tried my own translation and things was not looking like joshua
doubting myself like a fool , I called up a friend of mine who speaks the language to take a look
at it and this is what he saidMUHAHAHA!!
thats copy is from a Modern day hebrew Bible. First things first. Those little dots and lines over the hebrew letter, are a MODERN invention. The Original Text, like the Dead sea Scroll didn't include those dots and lines.
Next the little semi colonms : indicate Line breaks between the numbers of the verses. The Original text would not have that.
Next the image is of a PAGE, you can see where the edge would have been ripped out of its binding on the left side and the perfect straight edge on the right side. The Original Book of Joshua was a Scroll, books are a modern invention.
Tell your friend if he wants to show you clip from the book of Joshua, NOT to show you picture of the book of Nehemiah.
http://library.duke.edu/exhibits/hebrewbible/nehemiah.html
dark_ lord_tnt you are nothing but a fraud it is very hard to believe you made a mistake like that after stressing on Joshua but posting Nehemiah for me to reference ?????? c'mon man
oh here is a good read for you,, lets see in you recognize it.
and I am not interested in what you posted here
all I wanted was your version of joshua 3
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/6056/47591725.jpg
dark_lord_tnt wrote:No MegaDoc You are a fraud.. Thats Paleo Hebrew hasn't been used for hundreds of years.. It aint joshua
modern Hebrew Joshua (Yehoshua, Yehoshu'a) - יְהוֹשֻׁעַ (יהושוע)
Above old hebrew... ROFL @ idiot.
man what you posted is not joshua
I doubt you speak Hebrew
I never said I speak hebrew as well nor your friend, else you would have recognized the character differences, its quite different from modern Hebrew all you did was show us how pathetic you are as well as what you know. Your a LIER !!! A pretentiousness LIER
all we are saying is that that document you posted is not joshua
And sadly for you that is the section of the book of Jousha.. Its a cross cut section not even on paper, its papyrus Dumb***
you are a real fruad it is sad to think of what you may have done with the other info you came across so sad
The Book of Nehemiah is the story of Nehemiah, the son of Hachaliah. When Nehemiah received word on the condition of the Jews in Palestine, he obtained permission to visit Jerusalem, and rebuilt the walls.
Biblia Hebraica. Naples. ca. 1492
A leaf, printed on both sides from the second Bible printed in Hebrew by Joshua Solomon of Soncino.
Contains: Nahemiah, chapter 5:8 through chapter 7:16
dark_lord_tnt wrote:You truly are a Stupid.
"MS in Greek on papyrus, Oxyrhynchus?, Egypt, ca. 200, 6 ff. (originally ca. 60 ff.), 20x11 cm, single column, (16x8-9 cm), 19-23 lines in Greek semi-cursive book script.
Context: Possibly by the same scribe as MS 2649. The 6 ff. were found tipped in between the leaves of MS 2650. The whole codex with the 24 chapters of Joshua would have had approximately 60 ff.
Provenance: 1. Monastery in the Oxyrhynchus region, Egypt (ca. 4th c.); 2. Antiquity dealer, Alexandria (ca. 1930); 3. Private collector, Zürich.
Commentary: The oldest Septuagint Joshua extant. Apart from Joshua 10:2-5, 8-11, which is on the Dead Sea Scroll 4QJosha, in Hebrew from ca. 100 BC, the present papyrus is the oldest MS of this part of the Bible.
The text is the Septuagint before the critical work of Origenes Hexapta. It is closer to the original Septuagint of the 3rd c. BC than any other MSS. But it also revises the Septuagint towards the Hebrew Masoretic text, and at the same time reflects a different Hebrew recension from before the Masoretic revisions.
Published: Papyrologica Florentina, vol. XXXV. Rosario Pintaudi: Papyri Graecae Schøyen (PSchøyen I). Firenze, Edizioni Gonnelli, 2005 (Manuscripts in The Schøyen Collection V: Greek papyri, vol. I), pp. 81-145, by ************.
http://papyrology.blogspot.com/2009/07/papyrologica-florentina-xxxix.html
http://www.jstor.org/pss/20189610
Exhibited: NorFa - Nordic network in Qumran studies. Symposium in Oslo 3-5. June 2004.
: Museum Of London 2005 - 2010
"
megadoc1 wrote:Bizzare wrote:Megadoc, the religion you seem to defend does not allow one to indulge in certain activities, but rather be an example of Jesus Christ himself. I wanna know something b4 I proceed. How long have you been "saved"?
I honestly think you do not need to know how long I am saved before you go any further
proceed with what you are about
you are already in error if you think I am defending a religion btw
dark_lord_tnt wrote:megadoc אידיוט מזוין שלך
Имейте забаву, трахающую вашу маму вы глухой укол.
Well Done!
yes its plams found in the dead sea scrolls..
since you did your research.. I changed it to the actual image. Here it is 2648 . Its too bad that you searched so much into proving me wrong rather than actually checking the information i gave which is true. But a Deals a Deal, you did research (not the one i intended but you did non the less) .."MS in Greek on papyrus, Oxyrhynchus?, Egypt, ca. 200, 6 ff. (originally ca. 60 ff.), 20x11 cm, single column, (16x8-9 cm), 19-23 lines in Greek semi-cursive book script.
Context: Possibly by the same scribe as MS 2649. The 6 ff. were found tipped in between the leaves of MS 2650. The whole codex with the 24 chapters of Joshua would have had approximately 60 ff.
Provenance: 1. Monastery in the Oxyrhynchus region, Egypt (ca. 4th c.); 2. Antiquity dealer, Alexandria (ca. 1930); 3. Private collector, Zürich.
Commentary: The oldest Septuagint Joshua extant. Apart from Joshua 10:2-5, 8-11, which is on the Dead Sea Scroll 4QJosha, in Hebrew from ca. 100 BC, the present papyrus is the oldest MS of this part of the Bible.
The text is the Septuagint before the critical work of Origenes Hexapta. It is closer to the original Septuagint of the 3rd c. BC than any other MSS. But it also revises the Septuagint towards the Hebrew Masoretic text, and at the same time reflects a different Hebrew recension from before the Masoretic revisions.
Published: Papyrologica Florentina, vol. XXXV. Rosario Pintaudi: Papyri Graecae Schøyen (PSchøyen I). Firenze, Edizioni Gonnelli, 2005 (Manuscripts in The Schøyen Collection V: Greek papyri, vol. I), pp. 81-145, by ************.
http://papyrology.blogspot.com/2009/07/papyrologica-florentina-xxxix.html
http://www.jstor.org/pss/20189610
Exhibited: NorFa - Nordic network in Qumran studies. Symposium in Oslo 3-5. June 2004.
: Museum Of London 2005 - 2010
"
yes its the oldest part of this MS bible ever found. The Document isnt entirely there but what was is translated off. Check the links for the translation!
Papyrologica Florentina, vol. XXXV. Rosario Pintaudi: Papyri Graecae Schøyen (PSchøyen I). Firenze, Edizioni Gonnelli, 2005 (Manuscripts in The Schøyen Collection V: Greek papyri, vol. I), pp. 81-145, by ************..
Basically its the same situation just its isnt as descriptive as the ones used today. It says they crossed but it never said how. It Says they fought wars but what spoils were taken isnt there. All it does is suggest that things were added at a later date kind of like a story being improvised on as it moves through time. Read it you'll enjoy it..
Now that you have proven that you actually do research , there you have the original image , information on it , links to the same, and evidence of the translation as well as authenticity of it.
. According to the Indian Muslim scholar Yusuf Ali, the moon might split again when the day of judgment approaches. He says that the verse may also have an allegorical meaning, i.e. the matter has become clear as the moon.[4][5] The Qur'anic verse 54:1-2 was part of the debate between medieval Muslim theologians and Muslim philosophers over the issue of the inviolability of heavenly bodies. Philosophers held that the heavenly bodies could not be pierced because unlike the terrestrial matter, they were not composed of the four fundamental elements of earth, air, fire, and water.[6] Some other rationalistic Muslim thinkers had difficulties accepting any preternatural event, and sometimes argued that only an appearance of the split of the moon had happened.[7]
Verse 54:1-2 of the Qur'an reads:
The hour drew nigh and the moon did rend asunder. And if they see a miracle they turn aside and say: Transient magic.
Another tradition from Malik transmitted through other chains of narrations, mentions that the mount Hira was visible between the two parts of the moon (Mount Hira is located in Hijaz. Muslims believe that Muhammad received his first revelations from God in a cave on this mountain). A tradition narrated on the authority of Jubayr ibn Mut'im with a single chain of transmission says that the two parts of the moon stood on two mountains. This tradition further states that the Meccan responded by saying "Muhammad has taken us by his magic...If he was able to take us by magic, he will not be able to do so with all people." Traditions transmitted on the authority of Ibn Abbas briefly mention the incident and do not provide much details.[2] Traditions transmitted on the authority of Abdullah bin Masud describe the incident as follows:[2][12]
We were along with God's Messenger at Mina, that moon was split up into two. One of its parts was behind the mountain and the other one was on this side of the mountain. God's Messenger said to us: Bear witness to this 039:6725
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