Petrotrin update

[Pointman-IA]

There are alot of small enterprises (catering, landscaping, etc), communities, religious bodies and schools that have benefitted from Petrotrin.

When it is privatised, I hope the wider community doesn't complain of Petrotrin being a selfish entity.

[gastly369]

There are alot of small enterprises (catering, landscaping, etc), communities, religious bodies and schools that have benefitted from Petrotrin.

When it is privatised, I hope the wider community doesn't complain of Petrotrin being a selfish entity.

X2

[zoom rader]

BTW, was/ is AV the only lease operator? or the only lease operator to get caught?
Is it that he "took one for the boys" or was he being too greedy?
I have heard people say that he used to boast that he and Rowls sleep in the same bed and eat from the same plate and Rowls did admit to calling him when he heard about it which was very inappropriate.

Well you asking is OVER INVOICING is uncommon.
Maybe a little uncommon for actual oil-but its been happen for YEARS.
While they hanging one man-there is a bunch of people still un named that did/doing their part in the racket.

Petrotrin like every other state enterprise is the place where over invoicing is the norm.

Consumable supplies disappear,the co is invoiced for work not done,for goods not received, material disappears...jobs set up to max out over time.

From toilet paper up to oil there are illegal activities that abound.

From employees charging for services the co provides to management lining their nest egg with lump sum retirement packages, then coming back as consultants-despite retiring for health reasons. Signed off by the President of the co no less

The tax payer pays for that.

That's why we have to get rid of state enterprises

[Redman]

There are alot of small enterprises (catering, landscaping, etc), communities, religious bodies and schools that have benefitted from Petrotrin.

When it is privatised, I hope the wider community doesn't complain of Petrotrin being a selfish entity.

Looking at the NGC FCB model-I dont see why this would be of concern-

but frankly the organisation isnt there to be generous.

Its there to generate returns for the stakeholders.
We can let a private sector entity run it but retain ownership of the assets.

The fear in the communities would be that the gravy train is over.

[zoom rader]

There are alot of small enterprises (catering, landscaping, etc), communities, religious bodies and schools that have benefitted from Petrotrin.

When it is privatised, I hope the wider community doesn't complain of Petrotrin being a selfish entity.

Looking at the NGC FCB model-I dont see why this would be of concern-

but frankly the organisation isnt there to be generous.

Its there to generate returns for the stakeholders.
We can let a private sector entity run it but retain ownership of the assets.

The fear in the communities would be that the gravy train is over.

That two out of the many . What happen to the rest ?

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

There are alot of small enterprises (catering, landscaping, etc), communities, religious bodies and schools that have benefitted from Petrotrin.

When it is privatised, I hope the wider community doesn't complain of Petrotrin being a selfish entity.

Looking at the NGC FCB model-I dont see why this would be of concern-

but frankly the organisation isnt there to be generous.

Its there to generate returns for the stakeholders.
We can let a private sector entity run it but retain ownership of the assets.

The fear in the communities would be that the gravy train is over.

I'm not so sure about that. Many times things can be procured cheaper abroad yet the company is mandated to seek from local suppliers first. The exact same items. Things like that come straight from the biggest shareholder i.e. the Government.

It also extends into how money was transferred out over the years to other areas to prop them up instead of being reinvested in to the company. Aging infrastructure doesn't crop up overnight.

[Redman]

@zr.......uh those are two most recent examples of properly run state enterprises that have sold off partially.

[zoom rader]

@zr.......uh those are two most recent examples of properly run state enterprises that have sold off partially.

Yeah we know that but what happen to the rest.

More state enterprises should follow as those two.

Government should stick to the running the country rather than a bussiness

[Redman]

Well the private sector operation of a govt own ed asset meets your criteria.

[Cantmis]

There are alot of small enterprises (catering, landscaping, etc), communities, religious bodies and schools that have benefitted from Petrotrin.

When it is privatised, I hope the wider community doesn't complain of Petrotrin being a selfish entity.

Petrotrin should be modeled after Atlantic.

[vaiostation]

If petrotrin was indeed privatized, wouldn't the subsidy on cooking gas be removed?

[zoom rader]

If petrotrin was indeed privatized, wouldn't the subsidy on cooking gas be removed?

I don't think Petrotrin deals with cooking gas

I belive it's NP

[Redman]

Im waiting on a reply from a friend who might have the answer but I believe that govt will subsidize until they decide not to.

The model.would prolly be like fuel subs

It's not an advantage to the co....it's a real.pain in the ass as govt takes long to pay the subsidies and it messes your cash flow up

[shake d livin wake d dead]

http://www.guardian.co.tt/business/2018 ... l-shutdown

ole talk or no?

[De Dragon]

http://www.guardian.co.tt/business/2018-01-20/owtu-brace-national-shutdown

ole talk or no?

Sounds about right for Roget and Co. They want Petrotrin to be solvent, but they don't want to face the reality of staff cuts being a part of the solution. Roget would have us believe that management cuts alone will suffice, when it is plainly not so.

[lickmyballs]

Rise of the Trini oligarchs

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

If petrotrin was indeed privatized, wouldn't the subsidy on cooking gas be removed?

I don't think Petrotrin deals with cooking gas

I belive it's NP

Where you think NP gets the cooking gas from?

[pete]

The propane doesn't come from ppgpl who take it out of the natural gas?

[airuma]

There are alot of small enterprises (catering, landscaping, etc), communities, religious bodies and schools that have benefitted from Petrotrin.

When it is privatised, I hope the wider community doesn't complain of Petrotrin being a selfish entity.

Looking at the NGC FCB model-I dont see why this would be of concern-

but frankly the organisation isnt there to be generous.

Its there to generate returns for the stakeholders.
We can let a private sector entity run it but retain ownership of the assets.

The fear in the communities would be that the gravy train is over.

I'm not so sure about that. Many times things can be procured cheaper abroad yet the company is mandated to seek from local suppliers first. The exact same items. Things like that come straight from the biggest shareholder i.e. the Government.

It also extends into how money was transferred out over the years to other areas to prop them up instead of being reinvested in to the company. Aging infrastructure doesn't crop up overnight.

This is supposed to encourage building internal capacity..... it's a good policy but if suppliers just want to procure foreign good and sell for a profit then we ain't developing any special skills.

[The_Honourable]

http://www.guardian.co.tt/business/2018-01-20/owtu-brace-national-shutdown

ole talk or no?

Sounds about right for Roget and Co. They want Petrotrin to be solvent, but they don't want to face the reality of staff cuts being a part of the solution. Roget would have us believe that management cuts alone will suffice, when it is plainly not so.

Well said.

If you are doing staff cuts you do it from top to bottom.

Last year Roget rant and rave for higher wages. Now he's making noise again and Petrotrin is no better off or maybe worse than a year ago.

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

The propane doesn't come from ppgpl who take it out of the natural gas?

Petrotrin makes lpg. That’s why government started the conversation about how much lpg is subsidized. Petrotrin covers that subsidy. Don’t know if they gonna change the price of lpg like how they did for super etc.

[Redman]

The subsidy was 243m of which th GORTT covered 75m.

Petrotrin covered the rest.

Ministers numbers

[Pointman-IA]

Check the history of NPMC.
Their facility at Sea Lots once belongs to who?
The Pointe-a-Pierre Refinery once belongs to who?
So if the refinery is privatised, what would happen to certain products? Hmmmmm.

[The_Honourable]

Khan warns OWTU on ‘loose statements’

Energy Minister Franklin Khan yesterday cautioned the OWTU over “loose statements” on shutdown the country if Petrotrin is sold to the private sector.

“I want to caution them that some of the loose statements don’t go down well,” Khan, the PNM chairman said at the party’s post general council media briefing at Balisier House yesterday.

He denied recent reports that the state-oil company would be sold to the “one per cent” of leading business interests, and of plans to send home thousands of workers, as the OWTU claimed last week. Khan said restructuring “doesn’t mean a significant reduction of staff.”

While the challenges facing Petrotrin “are real and grave”, Khan said Government still believed Petrotrin “can become a viable entity”.

He said the board continues to assess a recent report on Petrotrin and has been mandated to have consultations on the future of the debt-ridden company.

Source: http://newsday.co.tt/2018/01/20/khan-wa ... tatements/

[De Dragon]

Joker Khan with his ridiculous permanent smile insists on giving people false hope about staffing reduction at Petrotrin. While he may want to counter point the union, he doesn't need to make any pronouncement on staff cuts, unless they really intend to try to move forward with an overstaffed entity.

[The_Honourable]

Petrotrin’s battle for survival

To say that state-owned Petrotrin finds itself in an interesting predicament is a bit of an understatement. That said, few people—both inside and outside of the oil industry—can truly grasp the size and magnitude of the problems the Pointe-a-Pierre-based oil refinery must contend with to ensure its very survival.

To really paint the picture of Petrotrin’s quagmire to the country involves exploring some statistics on the company that are jarring and would, quite clearly, elucidate in part its challenges. Permit me to do some crude—but instructive—number-crunching on a company whose viability and sustainability should definitely be called into question at this time.

As it stands today, Petrotrin is estimated to have somewhere between 3,000 and 5,000 employees (inclusive of temporary and contract labour). The company’s employee bill (inclusive of salaries and benefits) is also estimated to be in or around $2 billion.

Additionally, the employee bill is said to be more than half of the company’s total expenses.

Quite obviously, something about this scenario, from a purely commercial perspective, makes little sense. Firstly, in a highly capital-intensive environment the fact that the employee bill as a percentage of total expenses is over 50 per cent is perplexing, suggesting that (and as stated by numerous commentators before) the company is heavily overstaffed.

If one were to do simple “back of the envelope” calculations, it would suggest that on average, (again this is a very crude average) an employee at Petrotrin earns over $33,000 per month or roughly $400,000 per year. By any industry standard—even in the highest reaches of Silicon Valley perhaps—this seems to be unreasonably high. It is no secret that wages at Petrotrin are not on par with comparative jobs at other energy companies—they are higher.

Some might argue that it is fair given all the considerations of the job, but for a company with a depleted balance sheet, how can it possibly be sustainable?

In fact, maintaining such a high employee bill in the face of a company that has been making losses and unable to remit to the government its fair share (the prime minister is on record as stating that the company owes the Treasury over $2.75 billion in unpaid taxes and royalties) should give all stakeholders of Petrotrin—including and especially the taxpayers of T&T—reason for pause.

Tough decisions around labour at the company will eventually have to be made.

The OWTU has already stated its position that “not a man should be sent home” but, in the final analysis, what good would taking such a stance do for the company?

It should also be noted that as part of the last collective bargaining stand-off between the company and the union which nearly precipitated an ill-conceived strike, the union agreed to, as a condition of the settlement, increase productivity amongst its members. It’s anyone’s guess whether such “productivity gains” have occurred.

Taking a look at the company’s cash position is also telling.

Between 2014 and 2016, Petrotrin’s cash moved from over $1.7 billion to roughly $780 million, a decline of over 50 per cent. That a company’s cash position could deplete so rapidly over a two-year period is frightening. That said, given the company’s employee bill, one can speculate as to where some of Petrotrin’s cash would be going.

Further, with a debt-loaded balance sheet, Petrotrin would find itself hard pressed to raise funds to engage in any meaningful development projects (Moody’s downgraded the company’s credit ratings in 2016) especially much needed upgrades on its refinery assets.

Petrotrin president Fitzroy Harewood has said that asset integrity at the company remains its biggest challenge.
In fact, Harewood stated at an Energy Chamber luncheon in 2017 that it would cost the company upward of $16 billion to address all the problems with asset integrity with the company’s tanks, pipelines, berths and other assets.

A note on Petrotrin’s debt: The company owes US$1.6 billion in bonds. If the government were to take over the debt through a guarantee or actual cash, it means ostensibly that the population would be inheriting that amount which, in turn, means that each citizen of T&T would owe roughly US $1,231 on Petrotrin’s behalf.

Space does not permit, but the Petrotrin rabbit hole goes deeper still.
Issues of refinery utilisation, costs associated with importing crude, and other internal controls at the company raise another host of questions about turning the Petrotrin ship around.

All told, the Wilfred Espinet-led board has its work cut out for it. The OWTU must as well engage with a view to restructuring the company and putting it on a sustainable course rather than the predictable path of noise and rabble rousing.

Failure by the union to consider some obvious solutions could lead to the very demise of the hand that feeds it. If positions on either side become entrenched, then the entire nation should batten down the hatches, because this one is going to get ugly.

Source: http://www.guardian.co.tt/business-guar ... e-survival

[De Dragon]

^^ Can't get any more comprehensive than that. Half of your costs are wages? What the actual fack!

[airuma]

^^ Can't get any more comprehensive than that. Half of your costs are wages? What the actual fack!

To be fair, the price of oil would have had a significant effect on this percentage. This really shows that petrotrin is at a high risk position wrt shock in the crude oil market. I would be happier if the time was spent comparing the wages vs output vs process efficiency with other refineries with similar cost factors.

[Joshie23]

I lol'd when I realized that was a Guardian article; they have a penchant for spreading negative news about Petrotrin. Silicon Valley? Really? The average Silicon Valley annual salary is about $120,000 US dollars; the figure given in the article isn't even equivalent to $60,000-barely half. Some of us are so caught up in detesting the OWTU, or the Petrotrin employee or the BP employee or the *insert energy sector company here* employee or running down propaganda that we aren't rationalizing certain things. A lot of the Petrotrin employees I know don't make anywhere close to the average $33,000/month, not even the cleaners. Poor cleaners. Pun intended. The wage bill is apparently propped up by the high salaries of the President, the VPs, and many a senior manager or manager or head of department, etc. Another thing, common sense should tell us, (corruption, orchestrating, etc. aside) overstaffed and overtime can't go in the same sentence. Another reason for the wage bill, is excessive overtime. If a department or company on the whole is overstaffed, there'd be enough employees to relieve a shift, should a scheduled employee not come out, which would mean the employee awaiting relief wouldn't have to be paid overtime, so it begs the question, which area is overstaffed?

Like I said in the WASA thread, the powers that be are quick to cry overstaffed, to a) protect their executive friends and family and b) distract from the corruption and poor management that causes these situations in the first place. Do you think it was a Refinery Operator that sanctioned $1.6 bn in loans to finance a project that is long overdue? Why are we calling for the heads of average citizens like you and I who have very little influence and not that of those put in charge of effectively and efficiently managing resources?? State companies/offices are often inefficient, trust me I see it everyday, but it often starts at the top.

[vaiostation]

^^^This guy gets it...
I was speaking to someone from petrotrin the other day. Judging from what he told me is that the Board of Directors are aware of the overstaffing and understaffing issues in various departments...
What the Board basically said is that "petrotrin must deal with petrotrin issues". The Board just can't say this out in public, because of political reasons...
He did also say that staff will be reduced over a period of time by means of not renewing contracts of unnecessary or redundant staff, which might eliminate a good chunk of staff, but also hiring more staff for the company's core operations will need to be done...