The Religion Discussion

[QG]

bluefete i am reading your response in pieces
you said "No one on this thread has been able to provide a rational substitute for the existence of human beings beyond creation. Unless you can, God exists. "
i have a question about that then why was Jesus born to a mother and father? why didnt he just appear?
what happened in the years of his birth to when he was 31?33? when he was persecuted and hung?

We cannot question the works of God. You and I know that spirits cannot turn to flesh. Jesus needed to be born from a human in order to take human form, he growed with humans, he suffered like humans, he felt pain just like us, he was criticised for his good doings, and most important...HE DIED LIKE US and FOR US in order for man to get a second chance with God.

Jesus NEVER tooked praise for himself...NEVER!
He always said to thank the Father above and not him...am I right???

And nice post Bluefete, very long read, but good lol.

Since you guys are so into SCIENCE and all them physical evidence business...tell me what you all think about Nostrodamus. Was he fake?
I saw on History channel this week that Nostradamus predicted 3 ANTI-Christ...1. Napoleon 2.Hitler and 3. is amonst us this very day soon to reveil himself.
History went into the book of REVALATIONS from the bible to pin point who this Anti-Christ will be.
DO YOU ALL BELIEVE IN ANT-CHRIST and the mark of beast (666)?
DO YOU ALL BELIEVE IN THE FINDINGS OF NOSTRADAMUS?
so why is it so hard to believe in the Bible?

[QG]

bluefette please why are you quoting genesis considering in your own words adam and eve was probably a myth and more so QG your advocate who you said was sent by god to assist you just realized that Genesis DOES NOT account for the creation of Dinosaurs which we could all agree was 230 million years ago vs the oldest human relative 2.5 million years. Why would you still try to quote from the very book you discredited just a few pages ago.

Evolution is highly documented with examples even among the human race alive today
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... ution.html

The Galapagos isles are a perfect example of evolution in animals and plants.
http://www.galapagosislands.com/html/evolution.html

The evolution of fishes in the Congo river separated by extremely strong currents .
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... source=rss

Bigga Please. I said that there are some PRIESTS who are saying that Adam & Eve is an allegory/story. I never refuted the story of Adam & Eve.

Now, you quote the isolation of the Galapagos islands and the variation is species as a support to evolution, as per Darwin.

The Bible shows you that Dinosaurs did exist.

'There were giants in the earth in those days; and also AFTER that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became might men which were of old, men of renown." (Genesis 6:4) Note that there are 2 descriptions here. One for animals and one for people.

Dinosaurs and people existed together.

Evolutionists have a time difference because they have to fit hundreds of millions of years into their theory.

Creationists don't have that problem because the Bible states that God created everything.

Be back in a while

Nice come back.

[3stagevtec]

That is the response you give when you cannot argue with God's perfect truth.

or it could mean that there is too much BS in your post and it makes little sense trying to correct you..

why am i still in this thread?? why is this thread still going.. why didn't god lock this damn thing... whyyy???

[illumin@ti]

3stagevtec,

dont u see, its all for naught,, this debate is... we can discuss this in a structured logical way and ask pointed, direct questions, and all we will ever get is the trademark cliched answers that have been helplessly regurgitated ,,, time and time again...

lets accept that while bluefete and others are patiently waiting for the reunion of Dr Dre, the ubiquitous G.O.D, ol' shotta Santa, and de ghey tooth fairy.. others will be looking for something a lil bit more solid to hold our 'eggs' in ..

i will respect that he is of the 'flock'...... i'll seek to be the cunning dog

[bigga514]

blue boy you real mix up lol you used that as a excuse now you want to deny lol cmon it was a response to what i stated no one else was talking about adam and eve.

A FEW QUICK FACTS:

Scientists use Carbon Dating to pinpoint within 100 years or so when things happened because carbon decays at a certain rate.

The last dinosaurs – other than birds/reptiles – died out dramatically about 65 million years ago, while the fossils of our earliest human ancestors are only about 6 million years old.

Dinosaurs out-competed other animals of their era, but they lost the battle to survive the effects of the asteroid impact.

Mammals remained relatively small until 65 million years ago, when the demise of the dinosaurs left a mass of niches for larger mammals to fill. Most of the types of mammals we know today evolved after this time.

In short Dinosaurs were at the top of the food chain, and the existed longer than man has, if they were to co exist we would of been food for them, there are ancient cave man drawing of hunts etc none of dinosaurs or anything remotely close to being one.

im off for the evening will check in laters .

[bigga514]

3stagevtec,

dont u see, its all for naught,, this debate is... we can discuss this in a structured logical way and ask pointed, direct questions, and all we will ever get is the trademark cliched answers that have been helplessly regurgitated ,,, time and time again...

lets accept that while bluefete and others are patiently waiting for the reunion of Dr Dre, the ubiquitous G.O.D, ol' shotta Santa, and de ghey tooth fairy.. others will be looking for something a lil bit more solid to hold our 'eggs' in ..

i will respect that he is of the 'flock'...... i'll seek to be the cunning dog

indeed i must agree and fall back as well.
Man flip floppin too much.

[Humes]

WOW. God is amazing. Just when the "licks" from the critics were bowing me a bit, God sent in the troops, with more people posting in favour of God.

God sent you evidence of the naval academy Noah's Ark experiment yet?

Because I'm waiting.

[3stagevtec]

WOW. God is amazing. Just when the "licks" from the critics were bowing me a bit, God sent in the troops, with more people posting in favour of God.

yet he leaves so much innocent people to suffer..

there i go, replying again...

[Humes]

No one on this thread has been able to provide a rational substitute for the existence of human beings beyond creation. Unless you can, God exists.

The Bible is a historical book, recorded by eyewitnesses.

The Bible is a history book because the people mentioned were real and we have the archaeological evidence to prove it.

The almost complete absence of antimatter in the universe attests to its supernatural origin.

All of these statements are incorrect. Your entire argument in that post is based on a profound lack of understanding of almost everything you cut and pasted.


- The Bible contains some historical fact, but these facts only frame the primarily unhistorical information within it.

- The authors of the Bible were not all eyewitnesses to the events they recorded. That's basic common sense. Was the person who wrote Genesis, for example, around before God supposedly created anything at all? Before even the heavens?
Did the person who recorded the supposedly centuries-long lifetimes of the Old Testament figures outlive them all?
Did the person who wrote Exodus travel up Mt Sinai with Moses, and witness God in person?

Common sense, bluefete.

- There is no archaeological proof regarding the identities of most authors of the Bible because the vast majority of them are unknown. Most of those who have been reliably identified wrote in the centuries following Christ's death.

Do you even know what archaeological proof is?


- The lack of scientific knowledge about the origin of everything in Existence does not validate any religious text's "account" of creation. It simply means we don't know.


- The absence of antimatter attests to nothing except the fact that we either haven't found it, or we haven't solved the puzzle of its absence. The supernatural doesn't automatically explain what science does not.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Bigga Please. I said that there are some PRIESTS who are saying that Adam & Eve is an allegory/story. I never refuted the story of Adam & Eve.

Now, you quote the isolation of the Galapagos islands and the variation is species as a support to evolution, as per Darwin.

The Bible shows you that Dinosaurs did exist.

'There were giants in the earth in those days; and also AFTER that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became might men which were of old, men of renown." (Genesis 6:4) Note that there are 2 descriptions here. One for animals and one for people.

Dinosaurs and people existed together.

Evolutionists have a time difference because they have to fit hundreds of millions of years into their theory.

Creationists don't have that problem because the Bible states that God created everything.

Be back in a while

Nice come back.

there is NO proof that humans were around in the time of dinosaurs.
According to evolution though, our evolutionary ancestors were around at the time of dinosaurs - so perhaps your theory is also showing we evolved from apes.

Evolutionists have a time because they have to fit fact and real findings into their theory

Creationists don't have that problem because the Bible states that God created everything.

[Skanky]

Common sense, bluefete.

Surely you overestimate.

[bluefete]

That is the response you give when you cannot argue with God's perfect truth.

or it could mean that there is too much BS in your post and it makes little sense trying to correct you..

why am i still in this thread?? why is this thread still going.. why didn't god lock this damn thing... whyyy???

Because God is perfect in his ways and ultimately scientific rationality breaks down when it totally leaves out the Creator.

Is it really BS or is it that it shows the flaw in your logical argument that you have no comeback for, at least at this time?

[Sky]

at the time of the big bang, there was slightly more matter than antimatter (around 0.0001% more)..

of course all the antimatter reacted with the matter and the results of which is energy..

but because there was more matter than antimatter, we remain with what you see in the universe today..

yes that's a simple and effective way of putting it

There is one little flaw in your logic.

Laboratory science shows that it is impossible to create matter from energy without creating an exactly equal amount of anti-matter. (So you are quite correct there.)

If the big bang had actually happened it too would have produced an equal amount of antimatter.

Therefore, the universe today should have an equal amount of matter and antimatter. But it does not (as you correctly stated).

The universe is made almost entirely of matter. This is no slight imbalance. It is a severe problem.

Observations (which you rely on) have shown that matter and antimatter are ALWAYS produced in pairs. One has NEVER been produced without the other.

The logicalists/naturalists must rely on conjectures that are inconsistent with observations.

This problem for the big bang theory is a design feature for biblical creation.

When particles and anti-particles touch, do they not destroy each other and release enormous energy?

If God had made the universe with equal amounts of matter and antimatter ( as physics requires for a natural origin) then the matter in the universe would have been destroyed by any contact with antimatter; releasing huge amounts of dangerous radiation.

The universe contains virtually matter only because it was supernaturally designed and created by God.

too much BS in your response for me to comment on..

That is the response you give when you cannot argue with God's perfect truth.

Note: Where I said you were correct the first time I edited to read 'incorrect"

You started ignoring me a few pages ago.
go read my posts and dismiss them with God's perfect truth.
Not the one with Lincoln and the Jesus vid tho.
According to your "logic", God is still asleep

[Humes]

That is the response you give when you cannot argue with God's perfect truth.

This real ironic coming from a man whose idea of admitting his argument has been utterly debunked is, "I like your rationalizations."

Or who refuses to present evidence for his anecdotes.

Where's the evidence of the Noah's Ark experiment, bluefete? This is about the fifth time I've asked.

[bluefete]

at the time of the big bang, there was slightly more matter than antimatter (around 0.0001% more)..

of course all the antimatter reacted with the matter and the results of which is energy..

but because there was more matter than antimatter, we remain with what you see in the universe today..

yes that's a simple and effective way of putting it

There is one little flaw in your logic.

Laboratory science shows that it is impossible to create matter from energy without creating an exactly equal amount of anti-matter. (So you are slightly incorrect there.)

If the big bang had actually happened it too would have produced an equal amount of antimatter.

Therefore, the universe today should have an equal amount of matter and antimatter. But it does not (as you correctly stated).

The universe is made almost entirely of matter. This is no slight imbalance. It is a severe problem.

Observations (which you rely on) have shown that matter and antimatter are ALWAYS produced in pairs. One has NEVER been produced without the other.

The logicalists/naturalists must rely on conjectures that are inconsistent with observations.

This problem for the big bang theory is a design feature for biblical creation.

When particles and anti-particles touch, do they not destroy each other and release enormous energy?

If God had made the universe with equal amounts of matter and antimatter ( as physics requires for a natural origin) then the matter in the universe would have been destroyed by any contact with antimatter; releasing huge amounts of dangerous radiation.

The universe contains virtually matter only because it was supernaturally designed and created by God.

Black holes :
A black hole can be inferred by tracking the movement of a group of stars that orbit a region in space which looks empty. Alternatively, one can see gas falling into a relatively small black hole, from a companion star. This gas spirals inward, heating up to very high temperatures and emitting large amounts of radiation that can be detected from earthbound and earth-orbiting telescopes. Such observations have resulted in the scientific consensus that, barring a breakdown in our understanding of nature, black holes do exist in our galaxy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole

The Bible mentioned the existence of Black holes thousands of years before men even knew they existed. But we did not understand the context until recently.

"But the children of the kingdom shall be cast into outer darkness; There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 8:12)

"Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 22:13)

"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 25:30)

"Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness, forever." (Jude 1:13)

A black hole is supposed to be one of utter darkness because nothing, not even light, escapes from it.

[Humes]

A black hole is supposed to be one of utter darkness because nothing, not even light, escapes from it.

But none of those verses mention utter darkness. Three of them mention outer darkness.

So...what's your point?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

bluefete your posts are very inconsistent

[dry]

... and funny.

"make it fit! make it fit!"

[QG]

That is the response you give when you cannot argue with God's perfect truth.

This real ironic coming from a man whose idea of admitting his argument has been utterly debunked is, "I like your rationalizations."

Or who refuses to present evidence for his anecdotes.

Where's the evidence of the Noah's Ark experiment, bluefete? This is about the fifth time I've asked.

Just to clear up something...you are asking for physical evidence of Noah's Ark?
*In simplier terms?*

[QG]

Bigga Please. I said that there are some PRIESTS who are saying that Adam & Eve is an allegory/story. I never refuted the story of Adam & Eve.

Now, you quote the isolation of the Galapagos islands and the variation is species as a support to evolution, as per Darwin.

The Bible shows you that Dinosaurs did exist.

'There were giants in the earth in those days; and also AFTER that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became might men which were of old, men of renown." (Genesis 6:4) Note that there are 2 descriptions here. One for animals and one for people.

Dinosaurs and people existed together.

Evolutionists have a time difference because they have to fit hundreds of millions of years into their theory.

Creationists don't have that problem because the Bible states that God created everything.

Be back in a while

Nice come back.

there is NO proof that humans were around in the time of dinosaurs.
According to evolution though, our evolutionary ancestors were around at the time of dinosaurs - so perhaps your theory is also showing we evolved from apes.

Evolutionists have a time because they have to fit fact and real findings into their theory

Creationists don't have that problem because the Bible states that God created everything.

I am not against anyone here, but I will tell you what the Jehova Witness thinks about that verse in the bible; with respect to Giants.
The Witness said that in the scriptures, it states that Giants (Human) came from Angels having sex with humans.
One pointed out to me, that tall people like those NBA basketballers came from an ancestrial background from Angels having sex with humans.
Can Science prove that, i doubt lol.

I think God wiped out that whole continent due to abominations etc and those Angels were killed.

[Humes]

Just to clear up something...you are asking for physical evidence of Noah's Ark?
*In simplier terms?*

bluefete claimed that a miniaturized version of Noah's Ark, based on Biblical info and built by students, ended up being the most seaworthy craft in some naval academy competition.

He's yet to present evidence that really took place, or admit he was either mistaken or lying. It wasn't the first time he did that for the thread.

[dry]

Maybe if scientists spent less time trying to discredit God and more time trying to work in harmony with him, they would be more advanced.

The Bible mentioned the existence of Black holes thousands of years before men even knew they existed. But we did not understand the context until recently.

"But the children of the kingdom shall be cast into outer darkness; There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 8:12)

"Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 22:13)

"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 25:30)

"Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness, forever." (Jude 1:13)

A black hole is supposed to be one of utter darkness because nothing, not even light, escapes from it.

bluefete you suggested more than once that the scientists are trying to discredit God, but you are always using scientific evidence to back up your biblical claims. Your argument appears weak.



@QG:

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:23 am

http://forums.trinituner.com/forums//vi ... vy#3817181

An experiment was done several years ago in the US Navy training academy in Anapolis, Maryland. A class was told to build model ships which were to be used in a "storm" experiment.

One group decided to build their model based on Noah's Ark using the instructions given in the Bible.

No medals will be given out if you guess which team won and why.

[bigga514]

... and funny.

"make it fit! make it fit!"

blue boy so we had super astronauts in those times huh by your own admittance AGAIN if light cant escape a blackhole who could get close to one
to toss a body(not to mention the earth would have perished) besides was it no a parable being told that you quoted?

your trying too hard flip floping too much. im not going to continue to pay you much more attention.

[bluefete]

Bigga Please. I said that there are some PRIESTS who are saying that Adam & Eve is an allegory/story. I never refuted the story of Adam & Eve.

Now, you quote the isolation of the Galapagos islands and the variation is species as a support to evolution, as per Darwin.

The Bible shows you that Dinosaurs did exist.

'There were giants in the earth in those days; and also AFTER that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became might men which were of old, men of renown." (Genesis 6:4) Note that there are 2 descriptions here. One for animals and one for people.

Dinosaurs and people existed together.

Evolutionists have a time difference because they have to fit hundreds of millions of years into their theory.

Creationists don't have that problem because the Bible states that God created everything.

Be back in a while

Nice come back.

there is NO proof that humans were around in the time of dinosaurs.
According to evolution though, our evolutionary ancestors were around at the time of dinosaurs - so perhaps your theory is also showing we evolved from apes.

Evolutionists have a time because they have to fit fact and real findings into their theory

Creationists don't have that problem because the Bible states that God created everything.

"Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee, he eateth grass as an ox. Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly. He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together. His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron. He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him. Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.

He lieth under the shady trees ... Behold he drinketh up a river..." (Job 40:15-23)

Now that was a description of the land based dinosaur.

"Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down? Canst thou put an hook into his nose or bore his jaw through with a thorn?

Canst thou fill his skin with barbed irons? or his head with fish spears? Who can open the doors of his face? His teeth are terrible round about. His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal. One is so near to another that no air can come between them. They are joined one to another, they stick together, that they cannot be sundered.

Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out. Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron. ... he esteemeth iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood. The arrow cannot make him flee; slingstones are turned with him into stubble. Darts are counted as stubble, he laugheth at the shaking of a spear. ... He maketh the deep to boil like a pot...

Upon the earth there is not his like, who is made without fear. (Job 41:1-33)

Now that was a description of the sea-based dinosaur.

This is an amazing description of dinosaurs because it comes directly from God. Here God describe exactly how he made both the land and sea based dinosaurs. He gives a description down to how the scales fit on the body.

You evolutionists who say that dinos and humans did not exist at the same time have got it all wrong.

The Bible proves differently.

So Duane, are you implying that our evolutionary ancestors were indeed apes or humans?

[bluefete]

Maybe if scientists spent less time trying to discredit God and more time trying to work in harmony with him, they would be more advanced.

The Bible mentioned the existence of Black holes thousands of years before men even knew they existed. But we did not understand the context until recently.

"But the children of the kingdom shall be cast into outer darkness; There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 8:12)

"Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 22:13)

"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 25:30)

"Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness, forever." (Jude 1:13)

A black hole is supposed to be one of utter darkness because nothing, not even light, escapes from it.

bluefete you suggested more than once that the scientists are trying to discredit God, but you are always using scientific evidence to back up your biblical claims. Your argument appears weak.



@QG:

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:23 am

http://forums.trinituner.com/forums//vi ... vy#3817181

An experiment was done several years ago in the US Navy training academy in Anapolis, Maryland. A class was told to build model ships which were to be used in a "storm" experiment.

One group decided to build their model based on Noah's Ark using the instructions given in the Bible.

No medals will be given out if you guess which team won and why.

Dry: Science supports God's creations NOT vice versa. The problem is that scientists live in the natural world and attribute all events to natural occurrences and thus leave out the God link.

[bluefete]

A black hole is supposed to be one of utter darkness because nothing, not even light, escapes from it.

But none of those verses mention utter darkness. Three of them mention outer darkness.

So...what's your point?

Humes: Outer darkness - A place of utter darkness. dark is dark, is it not?

[dry]

Maybe if scientists spent less time trying to discredit God and more time trying to work in harmony with him, they would be more advanced.

Dry: Science supports God's creations NOT vice versa. The problem is that scientists live in the natural world and attribute all events to natural occurrences and thus leave out the God link.

Make up your mind. You (and similar followers) can simply say stuff like "dark is dark, ent? because that is what was written in the bible". So you feel that your argument is sound.

Scientists can't say "dark is dark". There are exact degrees of "darkness". Utter dark is not outer dark and neither of them firmly says "black-hole". Those aren't even scientific terms.

[bluefete]

... and funny.

"make it fit! make it fit!"

blue boy so we had super astronauts in those times huh by your own admittance AGAIN if light cant escape a blackhole who could get close to one
to toss a body(not to mention the earth would have perished) besides was it no a parable being told that you quoted?

your trying too hard flip floping too much. im not going to continue to pay you much more attention.

Okay. But we did not have super astronauts.

" ... he hangeth the earth upon nothing" (Job 26:7)

When Job wrote those words thousands of years ago, do you think he really understood the scientific implications of that sentence?

Again, the first PROOF that the earth was suspended in space was not provided until a picture was taken in the 1960's.

Is this not what you rationalists want? PROOF. But when God gives it to you, you conveniently forget that the Bible mentioned it first and give all praise to the scientists.

Who discovered the Laws of Gravity? Issac Newton in the 1600's. But the Book of Job mentioned gravity thousands of years before Newton's birth.

You go figure.

[bigga514]

^^^^nice way to hide half the scripture your misquoting LMAO

21 He lies under the lotus trees,
In a covert of reeds and marsh.

22 The lotus trees cover him with their shade;
The willows by the brook surround him.

23 Indeed the river may rage,
Yet he is not disturbed;
He is confident, though the Jordan gushes into his mouth,
sound like a hippo to me actually most of your own scholars seem to agree on that fact.

[bluefete]

WOW. God is amazing. Just when the "licks" from the critics were bowing me a bit, God sent in the troops, with more people posting in favour of God.

yet he leaves so much innocent people to suffer..

there i go, replying again...

Does he leave innocent people to suffer?

The human condition is as a result of sin. Suffering is as a result of sin.

Why do you blame God for that?

Remember Adam & Eve were given choices and their choices resonate to this day. That is why God sent Jesus Christ to help us. A perfect sacrifice for a sinful world.

That is why people who believe in God have a hope for a world beyond this one.

This life is only fleeting.