The Religion Discussion

[MG Man]

if u suffer greatly here without no obvious reason, then u would be recompensed that in the next life..

says who?
and what's the point f that suffering?

[sMASH]

is too...

[d spike]

Who says arbitrary suffering must have a point?
We live in a natural world were Natural Law rules.
It's easy to explain why the slower gazelle gets caught by the lions... you don't hear antelopes bawling, "Buh wha' I do? Wha' I ever do you, eh?" while the pride does eeny-meeny-miney-mo to decide who gets the rump...
Instinct and survival of the fittest helps decide the fates of what we condescendingly refer to as "lower life-forms"... how come we get to be owed reasons why bad things happen to us?
Whether the story of the garden of Eden is just a story or not, is pointless to discuss (my opinion, of course) but its telling is meant to teach us something about ourselves: we are now less than what we can be... we now allow our appetites to rule us rather than reason.
Thanks to this last point, what is termed 'sin' is part of our lives. Some decide it is better to steal than to work. So now, if a rabbit stops in a field to sniff a plant, and an eagle swoops down and acquires the major ingredient for rabbit-pie for dinner, we say that is life... so how come when you visit a store in the grimier part of town and get robbed... or forget to lock the door and come home to find the place burgled... or ensure that your daughter survives to adulthood and she gets raped... or bump someone by mistake and it turns out to be a wanna-be gangster with a knife and a grudge against folks who look like you...
...how come God owes you an explanation?
Now, I certainly do not mean it in the same way megadoc has been saying ("who are you to question de bossman... he is God and he could do what de hell he want..."), but using the logic that we have allowed ourselves to be ruled by rather similar rules ("dog-eat-dog", "rat-race", "do fuh yuhself", "do unto others before they do unto you" and so on - I think I've made my point).
We (mankind) have created this way of life due to our appetites. We have brought suffering upon ourselves. To ask, "So how come I caused a little African baby to starve?" is being ridiculous. For just one minute, stop viewing humanity as a bunch of individuals, and see us as life sees us - as a unit (be it gang, mob, Body of Christ, multicellular pest, whatever, that grows and regenerates lost or aged parts) and you will see that humanity is a creature in its own way, with the ability to make life better for itself (co-operation) or to further fragment and disintegrate by focusing on individual parts.

[megadoc1]

God created the earth and he gave man dominion over it .
sin and suffering came into the world through man,so all of mankind's problems are because of man
and his "own way"
now mankind so wicked they even asking why God is allowing this to happen
when it is man who is in control of the earth(somehow they forget that God gave man dominion on earth)
the power has been made available for mankind to end all the suffering,most reject it
yet still want to know why sit happens

[d spike]

Ah yes, the melodramatic version, focusing on that gloriously pompous word "dominion" a la KJV...
but basically, the same thing I said.
The difference lies in the solution.
Bawling, "Praze Jeezusss!" in large groups is not going to solve any problems by itself, especially when those bawlers go home with the same mindset that they left home with - focusing their lives around their needs, their wants...
Once people realise that we live with each other and are here to support each other (our brother's keeper, so to speak) and LIVE THEIR LIVES IN A MANNER THAT REFLECTS THIS CONCEPT, then a change will start occurring (though it will take generations to achieve a visible result)... we need to stop floating around in our individual bubbles.
This almost paranoid attitude towards Christianity by fundamentalists that worship of God must be done a specific way, via specific words, only using a specific name... borders on Gnosticism.

[Kasey]

d_spike, you remind me of my Ethics lecturer at UTT, Mr Balchand Rampaul. Brilliant individual, who many fundamentalists have a hard time with. I enjoyed his lectures, just as I look forward to your intelectual, brilliant inputs here.

[mamoo_pagal]

d_spike, you remind me of my Ethics lecturer at UTT, Mr Balchand Rampaul. Brilliant individual, who many fundamentalists have a hard time with. I enjoyed his lectures, just as I look forward to your intelectual, brilliant inputs here.

^^^
X2

Wish more people had this critical thinking ability!!!

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

always good reading d spike's point of view

God created the earth and he gave man dominion over it .
sin and suffering came into the world through man,so all of mankind's problems are because of man

Didn't God know man would do this?

What was God doing while the serpent was tempting Eve? Watching on?

now mankind so wicked they even asking why God is allowing this to happen
when it is man who is in control of the earth(somehow they forget that God gave man dominion on earth)

God gave man dominion on earth but then decided to destroy everyone in the great flood? What kinda dominion is that?

the power has been made available for mankind to end all the suffering,most reject it
yet still want to know why sit happens

so no sh!t happens to you?

[d spike]

d_spike, you remind me of my Ethics lecturer at UTT, Mr Balchand Rampaul. Brilliant individual, who many fundamentalists have a hard time with. I enjoyed his lectures, just as I look forward to your intelectual, brilliant inputs here.

^^^
X2

Wish more people had this critical thinking ability!!!

What was God doing while the serpent was tempting Eve? Watching on?

...God gave man dominion on earth but then decided to destroy everyone in the great flood? What kinda dominion is that?

Fundamentalists will never be able to respond clearly to these questions, simply because their faith is based on taking their scripture literally... and these two queries are based on two stories that the oppressed Hebrew people adopted from the Babylonian culture and adapted them somewhat to fit their needs to explain their origin... so there will be concepts that don't mesh, for those very concepts were not the teaching points of the different stories.

when it is man who is in control of the earth(somehow they forget that God gave man dominion on earth)

Being 'responsible' and being 'in control' are two different things.

the power has been made available for mankind to end all the suffering,most reject it
yet still want to know why sit happens

so no sh!t happens to you?

[/quote]
Quite likely it does... but he will most likely see it as an external evil attacking him, rather than by his swimming in the soup of the result of generations of humanity's materialistic tendencies...
Two things can happen to him as he attempts to accomplish his duties:
1. His faith supports him, resulting in either his faith in God being held responsible for his success, or his failings being seen as the result of God not willing it to be so, or his faith is insufficient and needs strengthening... thus resulting in his faith being strengthened/reaffirmed (bear in mind that God had probably nothing to do with either outcome);
2. If his faith is not sufficient for the tasks ahead of him, he will discard it in the frustration of not being able to get "help" (an immature decision, in my opinion, but one that far too many folks make - showing the superficial nature of their application of their original religion in their lives in the first place), or he will succeed by sheer effort, and thinking that this was only due to himself and not divine intervention, he will subconciously start the process of discarding his faith - another form of an immature faith, for God does assist us, by giving us the tools and each other... but the insiduous invasiveness of materialism has crept into religion, and we no longer see ourselves standing before God as a race... only as individuals ("my personal saviour", "me and God")...

[sMASH]

all it takes is for the people in money to send a lot of food to africa and the like for the human hunger suffering to stop. religion is not necessary for that.

and i doubt if a girl prays to god all the time and is a believer, that would make her immune to rape. the alter boys are testament for that. just like there are non christians who have never been raped or molested.

if every body following the same religion and sticking to it, there would be limited amount of morally bad things going on as most teach to do generally good.

to spell it out: belief in god does not make every thing instantly better, and non-belief in god does not make every thing instantly bad.

and as i said before, god gave us the power or ability to understand our environment, and because of our knowing better, we have a responsibility to preserve it, even from ourselves. we do not have dominion.


god wants us, when tempted, to choose the right way. all de time the first two in the garden doin watevah, and obeying god and not eating of the forbidden fruit. then satan come and chain up dem head. what does god do, condemn them for that one act of disobedience or forgive them for a life time before that of obedience?
they are forgiven because they repented sincerely, and tried not to do it again. god knows our hearts and so could tell if we are sincere or not, even if we commit the act again, and again, and again. some one could commit a small sin and not commit it again, but still be punished for it because they did not regret the act and did not beg for forgiveness for it.
an alcoholic may try several times to stop but fail, but each time is sincere as god would know and not men, and he would be for given when he begs forgiveness. his body is a slave to the alcohol. if i take a drink i may not be forgiven and earn great punishment, because i am not addicted, and do so very willingly with (as much as people who know me in reality may think) sound mind.

i say 'may' because i, we cannot determine what acts god will forgive, punish, or reward. that function only belongs to god, which will be dished out on judgment day.

[d spike]

all it takes is for the people in money to send a lot of food to africa and the like for the human hunger suffering to stop.

Not really... the problems in these areas have been created, developed and compounded by generations of error.
Yes, throwing money and food will alleviate the immediate suffering that the aid comes in direct contact with... but the original problems that helped create such situations would still exist.

Far too many folk nowadays have the wrong idea about charity.
There was a time when charity meant sharing your meal with the hungry... now it means donating cast-off clothing to a NGO.
Sharing means giving of yourself or that which you had for yourself... not as a means of getting rid of excess.
The parable about the old widow donating a couple of copper coins shows that clearly - she gave what she had.
Nowadays (thanks to money, perhaps) charity has been sanitized to the point where the pain/suffering of others does not have to make contact with us (the human connection has been severed): we put dollar-bills in a bowl in a church, send tins to NGOs... washing, housing and feeding others in need is no longer necessary - for we already "gave at the office".

Perhaps this is our downfall... this may be why 'aid' doesn't seem to work (Haiti being a sad but perfect example). We seem to be pouring effort and money into a black, bottomless hole... But what effort? Signing a cheque? What money? Cash we could afford to give away? Is that really charity?
Is that what we are here for?
Putting $20 on a donation sheet instead of spending it on crap you didn't need in the first place... is that the epitome of us showing our love for our fellow-men?
Yes, it's a start, of course... but is it really charity? Or are we expected to strive to give far more than just sanitary donations?

[megadoc1]

Ah yes, the melodramatic version, focusing on that gloriously pompous word "dominion" a la KJV...
but basically, the same thing I said. you said it better I am saying it how i believe it
The difference lies in the solution.
Bawling, "Praze Jeezusss!" in large groups is not going to solve any problems by itself, especially when those bawlers go home with the same mindset that they left home with - focusing their lives around their needs, their wants... agreed 100%
Once people realise that we live with each other and are here to support each other (our brother's keeper, so to speak) and LIVE THEIR LIVES IN A MANNER THAT REFLECTS THIS CONCEPT, then a change will start occurring (though it will take generations to achieve a visible result)... we need to stop floating around in our individual bubbles.agreed 100%
This almost paranoid attitude towards Christianity by fundamentalists that worship of God must be done a specific way, via specific words, only using a specific name... borders on Gnosticism.nah man d spike how yuh could say that?

[d spike]

This almost paranoid attitude towards Christianity by fundamentalists that worship of God must be done a specific way, via specific words, only using a specific name... borders on Gnosticism.nah man d spike how yuh could say that?

Why don't you offer an argument negating what I said?
Secret or specific knowledge that is claimed to "unlock" or enable the practitioner to use special powers, abilities and reveal/allow access to a rewarding hereafter is one of the hallmarks of Gnosticism.

[megadoc1]

always good reading d spike's point of view

God created the earth and he gave man dominion over it .
sin and suffering came into the world through man,so all of mankind's problems are because of man

Didn't God know man would do this?
maybe

What was God doing while the serpent was tempting Eve? Watching on?
I don't know

now mankind so wicked they even asking why God is allowing this to happen
when it is man who is in control of the earth(somehow they forget that God gave man dominion on earth)

God gave man dominion on earth but then decided to destroy everyone in the great flood?
if God is to rid the earth of evil ....I think toyo posted something about that no need for me to do it again
What kinda dominion is that? look around the world and see for yourself,
thing is you are the one keep asking why God don't intervene
but if he does man having sex with a man cannot be ok they will die
serving earthly gods cannot be ok you will die if you are involved
and a lot of things we do that is an offense to God would
be done away with or we will die doing them or attempting to do them
but God gave us the power to overcome all this for ourselves

the power has been made available for mankind to end all the suffering,most reject it
yet still want to know why sit happens

so no sh!t happens to you? yes but I don't go asking why does God not intervene knowing he gave us what it takes to deal with it. we cannot expect God to get rid of murder and hunger in one part of the earth and on this side two hard back man like me and you having sexx with one another normal normal....c'mon
lets be thankful for the gracious way he choose to deal with it
because this way we are given the power to leave our lusts behind
and the choice to die in them

[AbstractPoetic]

Megadoc1, what do you think of the Bishop Eddie Long fiasco?

[megadoc1]

Megadoc1, what do you think of the Bishop Eddie Long fiasco?
it is quite normal for that to happen as long as we give in to our flesh and lusts,
Christians are supposed to be led by the spirit of God and as long as that is not happening
this will be the outcome, now I am not saying a man cannot be tempted and fall into sin
but if you look at the man's lifestyle,his teachings and his secret life that was recently brought into light
it is clear to see that he abandoned being led by the spirit of God a long time ago
or never was being led in the first place
I think now will be a great time for him to get right with God

[d spike]

God gave man dominion on earth but then decided to destroy everyone in the great flood?
if God is to rid the earth of evil ....I think toyo posted something about that no need for me to do it again

Firstly, if he read toyo's post but still asks the question, this clearly shows that post was not sufficient.
Secondly, if you think it is relevant, then "copy n' pasting" it here would be far more informative and helpful, than vaguely stating it had been dealt with by a fellow who has authored quite a few erroneous posts.

What kinda dominion is that? look around the world and see for yourself

Cute response... but it doesn't mean anything.
The question is quite relevant... but unanswerable by the likes of you, as I already pointed out (no disrespect meant this time, lad... but your type of faith will not allow you to stand back and view this concept of scriptural disconnection. This "mood swing" ascribed to God is simply due to the fact that the original story dealt with multiple deities, each with their own view of humanity. The Hebrew elders did then exactly what religious scientists do today: they took theories that were accepted as fact at the time and put a religious slant to it!)

thing is you are the one keep asking why God don't intervene
but if he does man having sex with a man cannot be ok they will die
serving earthly gods cannot be ok you will die if you are involved
and a lot of things we do that is an offense to God would
be done away with or we will die doing them or attempting to do them

Oh, come on, megadoc!
Why are you implying that God doesn't intervene?
So, all those miracles you claim to perform...
...who is ultimately responsible for them? You once stated that Satan was my master... looks like you are implying a similar status for yourself... rectify that situation, lad

we cannot expect God to get rid of murder and hunger in one part of the earth and on this side two hard back man like me and you having sexx with one another normal normal....c'mon

Come on yourself, lad... yet you expect Got to wrought miracles through your "stretched forth" hands...

[trini mk5]

God gave man dominion on earth but then decided to destroy everyone in the great flood?
if God is to rid the earth of evil ....I think toyo posted something about that no need for me to do it again

Firstly, if he read toyo's post but still asks the question, this clearly shows that post was not sufficient.
Secondly, if you think it is relevant, then "copy n' pasting" it here would be far more informative and helpful, than vaguely stating it had been dealt with by an author of a quite a few erroneous posts.

What kinda dominion is that? look around the world and see for yourself

Cute response... but it doesn't mean anything.
The question is quite relevant... but unanswerable by the likes of you, as I already pointed out (no disrespect meant this time, lad... but your type of faith will not allow you to stand back and view this concept of scriptural disconnection. This "mood swing" ascribed to God is simply due to the fact that the original story dealt with multiple deities, each with their own view of humanity. The Hebrew elders did then exactly what religious scientists do today: they took theories that were accepted as fact at the time and put a religious slant to it!)

thing is you are the one keep asking why God don't intervene
but if he does man having sex with a man cannot be ok they will die
serving earthly gods cannot be ok you will die if you are involved
and a lot of things we do that is an offense to God would
be done away with or we will die doing them or attempting to do them

Oh, come on, megadoc!
Why are you implying that God doesn't intervene?
So, all those miracles you claim to perform...
...who is ultimately responsible for them? You once stated that Satan was my master... looks like you are implying a similar status for yourself... rectify that situation, lad

we cannot expect God to get rid of murder and hunger in one part of the earth and on this side two hard back man like me and you having sexx with one another normal normal....c'mon

Come on yourself, lad... yet you expect Got to wrought miracles through your "stretched forth" hands...

Oh the irony...these religious people always contradict themselves..

[d spike]

Oh the irony...these IRRATIONAL, LOGIC-DESPISING, UNTHINKING religious people always contradict themselves..

There, fixed it I have, yes.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

a lot of things we do that is an offense to God would
be done away with or we will die doing them or attempting to do them
but God gave us the power to overcome all this for ourselves

He didnt give that power to all of humanity so he wiped them out during the great flood?

He has wiped out almost all of humanity already, what is the big deal in doing it again?

we cannot expect God to get rid of murder and hunger in one part of the earth and on this side two hard back man like me and you having sexx with one another normal normal....c'mon

what does world hunger and homosexuality have to do with each other?

last time I checked hunger is not a sin, why can't he intervene there? Yet he intervenes through you and your special powers to "stretch forth" your hands to heal people?

this discussion would progress much quicker if you stop contradicting yourself.
You do realise that you have not made a valid point in 208 pages?
You have "agreed 100%" with d spike numerous times, but I don't think anyone has agreed with you or Toyo 1% so far - are you sure you two are here to support Christianity or are you really here to destroy it?

[megadoc1]

God gave man dominion on earth but then decided to destroy everyone in the great flood?
if God is to rid the earth of evil ....I think toyo posted something about that no need for me to do it again

Firstly, if he read toyo's post but still asks the question, this clearly shows that post was not sufficient.
Secondly, if you think it is relevant, then "copy n' pasting" it here would be far more informative and helpful, than vaguely stating it had been dealt with by a fellow who has authored quite a few erroneous posts. scene

What kinda dominion is that? look around the world and see for yourself

Cute response... but it doesn't mean anything. yes it does whats going on in the world to day is because of man
The question is quite relevant... but unanswerable by the likes of you, as I already pointed out (no disrespect meant this time, lad... but your type of faith will not allow you to stand back and view this concept of scriptural disconnection. This "mood swing" ascribed to God is simply due to the fact that the original story dealt with multiple deities, each with their own view of humanity. The Hebrew elders did then exactly what religious scientists do today: they took theories that were accepted as fact at the time and put a religious slant to it!) how about you show me some proof to that ? how would I be sure that what you posted isn't a theory also ?

thing is you are the one keep asking why God don't intervene
but if he does man having sex with a man cannot be ok they will die
serving earthly gods cannot be ok you will die if you are involved
and a lot of things we do that is an offense to God would
be done away with or we will die doing them or attempting to do them

Oh, come on, megadoc!
Why are you implying that God doesn't intervene?
I never said God did not intervene
all my post are pointing to the way God chose to intervened that is the cross
So, all those miracles you claim to perform... exactly!!
...who is ultimately responsible for them? jesus Christ You once stated that Satan was my master...yes i did looks like you are implying a similar status for yourself... rectify that situation, lad c'mon d spike

we cannot expect God to get rid of murder and hunger in one part of the earth and on this side two hard back man like me and you having sexx with one another normal normal....c'mon

Come on yourself, lad... yet you expect Got to wrought miracles through your "stretched forth" hands... I aint get yah there pal

[sMASH]

all it takes is for the people in money to send a lot of food to africa and the like for the human hunger suffering to stop.

Not really... the problems in these areas have been created, developed and compounded by generations of error.
Yes, throwing money and food will alleviate the immediate suffering that the aid comes in direct contact with... but the original problems that helped create such situations would still exist.

Far too many folk nowadays have the wrong idea about charity.
There was a time when charity meant sharing your meal with the hungry... now it means donating cast-off clothing to a NGO.
Sharing means giving of yourself or that which you had for yourself... not as a means of getting rid of excess.
The parable about the old widow donating a couple of copper coins shows that clearly - she gave what she had.
Nowadays (thanks to money, perhaps) charity has been sanitized to the point where the pain/suffering of others does not have to make contact with us (the human connection has been severed): we put dollar-bills in a bowl in a church, send tins to NGOs... washing, housing and feeding others in need is no longer necessary - for we already "gave at the office".

Perhaps this is our downfall... this may be why 'aid' doesn't seem to work (Haiti being a sad but perfect example). We seem to be pouring effort and money into a black, bottomless hole... But what effort? Signing a cheque? What money? Cash we could afford to give away? Is that really charity?
Is that what we are here for?
Putting $20 on a donation sheet instead of spending it on crap you didn't need in the first place... is that the epitome of us showing our love for our fellow-men?
Yes, it's a start, of course... but is it really charity? Or are we expected to strive to give far more than just sanitary donations?

praise be to god, one of the most fruitful corrections ever elicited here,,, but sadly, off the current trend of topic right now

[megadoc1]

a lot of things we do that is an offense to God would
be done away with or we will die doing them or attempting to do them
but God gave us the power to overcome all this for ourselves

He didnt give that power to all of humanity so he wiped them out during the great flood?
at that time this power was not available to mankind

He has wiped out almost all of humanity already, what is the big deal in doing it again?
may be the demonstration of his love ?
I am not sure but what he did this time is greater than the flood

we cannot expect God to get rid of murder and hunger in one part of the earth and on this side two hard back man like me and you having sexx with one another normal normal....c'mon

what does world hunger and homosexuality have to do with each other?
both are the results of evil

last time I checked hunger is not a sin, but what are the causes ?why can't he intervene there? he did intervene for everything just not in the way you want him to Yet he intervenes through you and your special powers to "stretch forth" your hands to heal people? its available for you too but do you want it ? its available to every one who believes, you don't want to be part of it yet you pretend to care
If you really cared you would signed up and do what God wants us to do that is
for his will to be done on earth as it is in heaven
why not do it his way?

this discussion would progress much quicker if you stop contradicting yourself.
show me where I did this
You do realise that you have not made a valid point in 208 pages?
who defines/determines what is valid on here? you?
You have "agreed 100%" with d spike numerous times, but I don't think anyone has agreed with you or Toyo 1% so far - breds only one matters to me if they agree with me and that is Jesus
thats whats most important if he doesn't agree with me I have a problem even if a billion people agreeed , people did not agree with Jesus and they even killed him so whats your point?
if the whole world agreed that killing is good does that make it right?
are you sure you two are here to support Christianity or are you really here to destroy it?
what kind of question is that? I claimed that other religions are of the devil and yet I cannot destroy it how can I then destroy what is of God?
SMH

Duane I came across this guy by the name of
Ravi Zacharias
you should check out his work

[trini mk5]

Megadoc why do you believe that your religion is the right one and other religions are of the devil. I think that statement alone shows your arrogance!

[sMASH]

first vid, he made sense, second vid, like he broke for commercial, third vid he started talkin bout the commercial.

... mind u, he did not answer the question, began attacking the questioner for being atheist and affirming his notion of how god should be. he is a champion of those who follow that faith, and a detractor of that faith itself.

[megadoc1]

Duane , d spike
I think Dr Ravi rocks yo
what are your views?

first vid, he made sense, second vid, like he broke for commercial, third vid he started talkin bout the commercial.

... mind u, he did not answer the question, began attacking the questioner for being atheist and affirming his notion of how god should be. he is a champion of those who follow that faith, and a detractor of that faith itself.boy you so full of it he describes you in this vid below

[sMASH]

-jesus (pbuh) was one of the great prophets recorded, others were great, non were the progeny of god
-the' judas ascariot being crucified' cannot be proven nor dis-proven.
-there is no regularized structure or hierarchy like the papacy. the only thing needed to follow the religion are the qur'an and the hadith. all the terms being flaunted are there because the people place emphasis on those who learn more and investigate more.
-there is not supposed to be compulsion. again, the people aren't understanding what they read.
-this was not an intellectual work out, he claimed that being special makes something extra special, which is not necessarily so. he tried to make the listeners think that the actions of some are the instructions from the faith. not everything a person does is religion based. those listeners now, would have a misconception to the actual teaching. this would be propaganda. if any one who may have investigated islam but did not because of what they heard from this man, he would be classed as a kafir- one who covers the truth. not believing is one thing, lying and convincing others to turn away is another. i am not saying that he is lying about that mufti, i am saying that he is lying about the compulsion being part of the religion.
i am not aware of any compulsion, but i am aware of a guideline for those who considers switching faiths; if u convert, do so with great care and consideration, because if it is easy to change ur beliefs it may be easy for u to change it again. one should not be modifying their life altering commitments every tuesday. ( spike was saying sumting to dis effect earlier)

[megadoc1]

-jesus (pbuh) was one of the great prophets recorded, others were great, non were the progeny of god
-the' judas ascariot being crucified' cannot be proven nor dis-proven.
-there is no regularized structure or hierarchy like the papacy. c'mon man do I have to remind you that is jesus Christians follow?the only thing needed to follow the religion are the qur'an and the hadith. all the terms being flaunted are there because the people place emphasis on those who learn more and investigate more.
-there is not supposed to be compulsion. again, the people aren't understanding what they read.
-this was not an intellectual work out, he claimed that being special makes something extra special, which is not necessarily so. he tried to make the listeners think that the actions of some are the instructions from the faith. not everything a person does is religion based.same goes for Christianity but you hardly ever took that into consideration those listeners now, would have a misconception to the actual teaching. this would be propaganda. if any one who may have investigated islam but did not because of what they heard from this man, he would be classed as a kafir- one who covers the truth. not believing is one thing, lying and convincing others to turn away is another. i am not saying that he is lying about that mufti, i am saying that he is lying about the compulsion being part of the religion.
i am not aware of any compulsion, but i am aware of a guideline for those who considers switching faiths;thats why it is said that the Islam you presented here and the Islam of the middle east are two different religions if u convert, do so with great care and consideration, because if it is easy to change ur beliefs it may be easy for u to change it again. one should not be modifying their life altering commitments every tuesday. ( spike was saying sumting to dis effect earlier)

[sMASH]

hmmm, watched the second vid. as long as u have looked upon a woman with lust u have committed adultery. so is either u don't look with lust or u don't look. it hard to not look with lust, an believe that most men saying that they not lusting are lying. so what are u to do? u don't look. but how would u walk down de road, how would u watch ur co-worker when she leans forward, or leans picks sumthing up from the floor, or walks away from u ever so sensually. in this society sexuality is all around. for men not to lust, but exist in society we must go blind. we normel men have no choice biologically to be attracted to the female form, we are not made to be attracted to wives but females. so they are saying that as soon as ur physiology interacts with ur biology and ur psychology and fantasy u have adulterated and sinned.

what the arab kid did not think in time, (i am even less able to respond in a public setting than him) is what islam teaches on the matter. islam teaches that the first glance is a blessing, and everything after that is a sin. u cannot control what u encounter, but u can control ur response. u walk down the road an see a hotgyal, very attractive and u recognize that. that sight stimulates ur senses and initiates ur normel male systems. u gain pleasure. but as soon as u realize what is goin on, u must desist, for indulging it further than the initial glance that u could not control, is the sin. so as u see the hotgyal and she is a hotgyal to u, and u realize what is going on, u must turn away.
so the muslim would turn away praising god for the excitement, praising god that they are normel humans, and praying that they did not transgress the limit he set. the christian may turn away thinking they have adulterated because of their biology existing in a random situation, or may not turn away thinking that if both their body and mind goin to pay for the adultery of the mind, might as well let the body and mind pay for the body and mind

[megadoc1]

hmmm, watched the second vid. as long as u have looked upon a woman with lust u have committed adultery. so is either u don't look with lust or u don't look. it hard to not look with lust, an believe that most men saying that they not lusting are lying. so what are u to do? u don't look. but how would u walk down de road, how would u watch ur co-worker when she leans forward, or leans picks sumthing up from the floor, or walks away from u ever so sensually. in this society sexuality is all around. for men not to lust, but exist in society we must go blind. we normel men have no choice biologically to be attracted to the female form, we are not made to be attracted to wives but females. so they are saying that as soon as ur physiology interacts with ur biology and ur psychology and fantasy u have adulterated and sinned.
looking at an attractive woman and looking at a woman to lust after her are two different things eh
I see beautiful attractive women regularly nothing is wrong with that the problems comes in when I start having sexual thoughts and pressing in on them(and man I used to have that problem alot thank God for Jesus) what he did was to eliminate sin from within our hearts and once there is no sin in our hearts there will be no sinful actions


what the arab kid did not think in time, (i am even less able to respond in a public setting than him) is what islam teaches on the matter. islam teaches that the first glance is a blessing, and everything after that is a sin. u cannot control what u encounter, but u can control ur response. u walk down the road an see a hotgyal, very attractive and u recognize that. that sight stimulates ur senses and initiates ur normel male systems. u gain pleasure. but as soon as u realize what is goin on, u must desist, for indulging it further than the initial glance that u could not control, is the sin. so as u see the hotgyal and she is a hotgyal to u, and u realize what is going on, u must turn away.
so the muslim would turn away praising god for the excitement, praising god that they are normel humans, and praying that they did not transgress the limit he set. the christian may turn away thinking they have adulterated because of their biology existing in a random situation, or may not turn away thinking that if both their body and mind goin to pay for the adultery of the mind, might as well let the body and mind pay for the body and mind whats with you and those assumptions of a Christian?