What is the PNM's plan for the economy?

[desifemlove]

NP and UNIPET are the marketing arms...ie they distribute the fuels that are produced by the 165k BOPD refinery thats been sitting in Pointe a Pierre since before WW2 (if not WW1)...

If there is a shortfall in the fuel production we import some fuels on a spot basis from Venezuela..



So Petrotrin produces gas/Diesel....which is sold at international spot prices to NPMC/Unipet.

This is where the subsidy makes up the difference between international prices and the price we pay for gasoline/Diesel.

I think locally we use about 30% of the gas and 60% of the diesel produced by the refinery.
the rest is exported....


To say that we export oil to X for 'conversion" to nat Gas in order to re import and generate electricity is a stupendous position to take...and BC seems to believe what he has said.


like I said that post certainly explained a lot.

I thought as much. but then since what we does use is small amoutn of the total proven reserves, then why sell it to another arms via market prices? how would the state mek losses if BP, Repsol, Exxon, Shell and them does export?

[bluesclues]

To say that we export oil to X for 'conversion" to nat Gas in order to re import and generate electricity is a stupendous position to take...and BC seems to believe what he has said.


like I said that post certainly explained a lot.

Iif u take the time to understand what im saying ud see that i admitted the misconception. however, the bulk of what i was working with from memory is..

we are buying our own oil from a foreign company after its put through some process. the process turned out to be the actual drilling. so i was not wrong, just not as detailed.

and that is the bottom line you seem to be attempting to skirt. the standard 45% wti we purchase our own oil from a foreign producer is exhorbitant. and moves should have been made to replace foreign producers with local ones.

tell me i talkin shyt now nah. we go round the world, which was quite informative for my part having not done any major in depth researcg into our processes, and end back up on exactly what i said. u can quote me if you like saying 'we dont provide all our own services' and as u have higlighted it is found where we got raped over the past few years and why trinidad did not experience the boom it should have when oil was trading at $100 and over.


point and case.. closed

[Redman]

To say that we export oil to X for 'conversion" to nat Gas in order to re import and generate electricity is a stupendous position to take...and BC seems to believe what he has said.


like I said that post certainly explained a lot.

Iif u take the time to understand what im saying ud see that i admitted the misconception. however, the bulk of what i was working with from memory is..

My father in law always says ..dont kick dry dog shyte...it has no upside
The bulk of your memory says alot.
Your arrogance is really misplaced.

we are buying our own oil from a foreign company after its put through some process. the process turned out to be the actual drilling. so i was not wrong, just not as detailed.
and that is the bottom line you seem to be attempting to skirt. the standard 45% wti we purchase our own oil from a foreign producer is exhorbitant. and moves should have been made to replace foreign producers with local ones.

Well you need to find out how many producers exist before you arrive at any conclusion..
While you there determine how many are local owned...

What you need to do BEFORE you close your case is explain how you conclude that receiving 45% of market for a commodity while PAYING market for your inputs is exorbitant....

What I HAVE been attempting to skirt is what this

To say that we export oil to X for 'conversion" to nat Gas in order to re import and generate electricity is a stupendous position to take...and BC seems to believe what he has said.

statement of means....it means that you have an understanding that is simplistic on the level of believing that only Powergen makes Currants roll.

If your understanding of the LOCAL hydrocarbon industry is that locally there is a process that exports and converts Oil to Nat Gas, which is then liquefied,shipped back to TnT then regasified, so that we can generate electricity....while attempting to discuss the GASOLINE subsidy
then the foundation of all your lectures on economics is flawed.
And flawed in the sense that the hole in the Titanic could buff out.

Based on the below ...nothing has changed.

tell me i talkin shyt now nah.

Happy to comply.
Yuh talking SHEEEEEIT.
And not just now...but long time.

we go round the world, which was quite informative for my part having not done any major in depth researcg into our processes,

This is LUCID
Of course this processing is just the major component in our economic space...so a lack of understanding in that area means you dont appreciate the workings of a major input to our Economic life.


a

nd end back up on exactly what i said. u can quote me if you like saying 'we dont provide all our own services' and as u have higlighted it is found where we got raped over the past few years and why trinidad did not experience the boom it should have when oil was trading at $100 and over.


point and case.. closed

So Petrotrin(on behalf of TnT) PURCHASING oil at 45% WTI (the rest goes into Taxes,royalties and fees paid to Petrotrin,Min of Energy and the GORTT) and refining ALL on shore production into Liquid Fuels for sale at world market prices is rape?


Well you close to right...youve ended right back where you started...

and THAT says even more.

[bluesclues]

considering how much we spent on renting foreign producers resources over 10-15 yrs.. yes. and considering after that time, we still dont have the money to fund our own op. yes. like working a deadend job.. paying most of ur salary in rent and realising you will neve save enough to meet the banks downpayment needs. rent for life.

[desifemlove]

So we can afford to build, install and man a rig? why does it matter, if we cyah do some deal with lower fees?

[De Dragon]

So we can afford to build, install and man a rig? why does it matter, if we cyah do some deal with lower fees?

The most efficient way is to control as much of the production chain as possible. we've either never felt comfortable with our expertise, nor our ability to fund such ventures solely.

[shake d livin wake d dead]

well look how this fuel subsidy removal gonna cause it in Trinidad........

[1UZFE]

well look how this fuel subsidy removal gonna cause it in Trinidad........

#welikeitso

[pugboy]

I thought we were paying slightly higher gasoline pump prices given the low oil prices

[desifemlove]

what is PNM's plan? what was UNC's plan?

building highways that the previous govt. planned and taking all credit from conception to finish?

no diversification?

no change in the tax regime?

no new export markets for any products?

no change in regulations?

no plan for economic growth or employment levels, or educational levels?

and of course, PNM iz in power now. nutten of the past five years doh matter..

[desifemlove]

iz people like UML, ZR, SNR, and all the UNCs who mek this country mash up and un-evolved. continue to deny any responsibility for now, cos you mek a good stand up act like Peter Joseph.

[zoom rader]

Yawn

[urbandilema]

[Habit7]

well look how this fuel subsidy removal gonna cause it in Trinidad........

#welikeitso

I remember the good old days like last year, when UNC said the same thing..

[desifemlove]

Yawn

yawn, what? cos she always saying how she ent repsonsible in part and people stupid enough to believe? or UNCs ent realise it's a free country and ent like challenge?

[EmilioA]

The PNM's plan seems to be to pass on as much cost to the regular citizen as possible in the short term. And hope that oil prices rise before the next election so they could do a tax cut right before.

(The UNC's plan of course was to borrow and steal. )

If oil prices dont rise the PNM's plan will lead to a stalled economy, with inflation , unemployment and low production.

OTOH the UNC would have led us to Greece with massive debts and a complete inability to repay and finally the loving arms of the IMF.

[zoom rader]

Increased Taxi fares and transport fees in allyuh MC while paying double for crappy limited new cars.

[EmilioA]

Increased Taxi fares and transport fees in allyuh MC while paying double for crappy limited new cars.

Nah I going by Kamla and ask she to give me a job in she Constituency office to pay for the extra cost.

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

Doesn't matter what you do the citizens will always complain. We will talk till blue about transfers and subsidies and how the money shouldn't go into GATE etc blah blah but when an actual decision is taken to change these things people just complain about doom and gloom.

I ask tuners what they would recommend but no one ever really goes into details.

[Daran]

The PNM's plan seems to be to pass on as much cost to the regular citizen as possible in the short term. And hope that oil prices rise before the next election so they could do a tax cut right before.

(The UNC's plan of course was to borrow and steal. )

If oil prices dont rise the PNM's plan will lead to a stalled economy, with inflation , unemployment and low production.

OTOH the UNC would have led us to Greece with massive debts and a complete inability to repay and finally the loving arms of the IMF.

So you're saying PP's solution would have been to spend like crazy, deny there's a recession and ensure everyone carry on like normal. Then they'd hopefully await a rise in oil prices to repay debts.

Whereas, PNM's strategy is austerity and await a rise in oil prices.

I'm not economist but PP's strategy seems far smarter.

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

The PNM's plan seems to be to pass on as much cost to the regular citizen as possible in the short term. And hope that oil prices rise before the next election so they could do a tax cut right before.

(The UNC's plan of course was to borrow and steal. )

If oil prices dont rise the PNM's plan will lead to a stalled economy, with inflation , unemployment and low production.

OTOH the UNC would have led us to Greece with massive debts and a complete inability to repay and finally the loving arms of the IMF.

So you're saying PP's solution would have been to spend like crazy, deny there's a recession and ensure everyone carry on like normal. Then they'd hopefully await a rise in oil prices to repay debts.

Whereas, PNM's strategy is austerity and await a rise in oil prices.

I'm not economist but PP's strategy seems far smarter.

So it's smarter to increase debt and hope for higher revenue than to save/reduce debt and hope for higher revenue?

[Daran]

The PNM's plan seems to be to pass on as much cost to the regular citizen as possible in the short term. And hope that oil prices rise before the next election so they could do a tax cut right before.

(The UNC's plan of course was to borrow and steal. )

If oil prices dont rise the PNM's plan will lead to a stalled economy, with inflation , unemployment and low production.

OTOH the UNC would have led us to Greece with massive debts and a complete inability to repay and finally the loving arms of the IMF.

So you're saying PP's solution would have been to spend like crazy, deny there's a recession and ensure everyone carry on like normal. Then they'd hopefully await a rise in oil prices to repay debts.

Whereas, PNM's strategy is austerity and await a rise in oil prices.

I'm not economist but PP's strategy seems far smarter.

So it's smarter to increase debt and hope for higher revenue than to save/reduce debt and hope for higher revenue?

Yes, because by stimulating the economy you tend to increase revenues and diversification (assuming incentives for this would have been pushed). Additionally, you avoid a brain drain and run on our banks/currency.

Austerity almost never works and should be a last resort. PNM has made a bad situation worse by depressing the economy with it's negative outlook and fear mongering.

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

The PNM's plan seems to be to pass on as much cost to the regular citizen as possible in the short term. And hope that oil prices rise before the next election so they could do a tax cut right before.

(The UNC's plan of course was to borrow and steal. )

If oil prices dont rise the PNM's plan will lead to a stalled economy, with inflation , unemployment and low production.

OTOH the UNC would have led us to Greece with massive debts and a complete inability to repay and finally the loving arms of the IMF.

So you're saying PP's solution would have been to spend like crazy, deny there's a recession and ensure everyone carry on like normal. Then they'd hopefully await a rise in oil prices to repay debts.

Whereas, PNM's strategy is austerity and await a rise in oil prices.

I'm not economist but PP's strategy seems far smarter.

So it's smarter to increase debt and hope for higher revenue than to save/reduce debt and hope for higher revenue?

Yes, because by stimulating the economy you tend to increase revenues and diversification (assuming incentives for this would have been pushed). Additionally, you avoid a brain drain and run on our banks/currency.

Austerity almost never works and should be a last resort. PNM has made a bad situation worse by depressing the economy with it's negative outlook and fear mongering.

Yeah but the latter plan works better than the former without these incentives you speak of. The former plan is ludicrous simply because no such incentives were put in place.

Also is what the PNM doing really austerity? How would the PP have stimulated the economy? By borrowing?

[Daran]

No, I don't believe they would have borrowed significantly.

I think they'd simply just deny, and do cutbacks slowly. However, they would have carried on a 'All is well, Trinidad is paradise' mindset instead of the depressing views that come form the PNM.

[De Dragon]

Yawn

yawn, what? cos she always saying how she ent repsonsible in part and people stupid enough to believe? or UNCs ent realise it's a free country and ent like challenge?

You still with this sickening rant? Oh gosh we get it! Yuh want KPB to come in Woodford Square with sackcloth and ashes(Louis Vuitton probably) and admit that she caused the whole economic slump all by sheself. Well keep plugging away on 2NR my friend, cuz I'm sure that when she's on here, she will heed your call

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

No, I don't believe they would have borrowed significantly.

I think they'd simply just deny, and do cutbacks slowly. However, they would have carried on a 'All is well, Trinidad is paradise' mindset instead of the depressing views that come form the PNM.

Mindsets don't stimulate economies though.



When you don't have the money to pay public servants back pay how do you pretend that all is well? NGC stock investment was a one off and energy prices are low so how would the PP have pretended without having the money to pretend?

[Habit7]

Ppl need to understand subsidies dont make us stronger, it makes us weaker. Direct the subsidies to those who really need it, but subsidies allow for dependency and lack of innovation. Look no further than Venezuela and see what subsidised fuel and food gets you.

We need to be weaned off of subsidies and allow for true trini innovation and a true free market society. Everybody love to compare TT to the US and Singapore but nobody wants to take the steps to get us there.

[De Dragon]

No, I don't believe they would have borrowed significantly.

I think they'd simply just deny, and do cutbacks slowly. However, they would have carried on a 'All is well, Trinidad is paradise' mindset instead of the depressing views that come form the PNM.

Mindsets don't stimulate economies though.



When you don't have the money to pay public servants back pay how do you pretend that all is well? NGC stock investment was a one off and energy prices are low so how would the PP have pretended without having the money to pretend?

But the PNM's view and approach seem to be at the other end of the spectrum. I think we'd have been much better served by a balance of conservative spending while riding out the low price period, all while looking at other revenue streams, gradual removal of burdensome subsidies etc.

[src1983]

Ppl need to understand subsidies dont make us stronger, it makes us weaker. Direct the subsidies to those who really need it, but subsidies allow for dependency and lack of innovation. Look no further than Venezuela and see what subsidised fuel and food gets you.

We need to be weaned off of subsidies and allow for true trini innovation and a true free market society. Everybody love to compare TT to the US and Singapore but nobody wants to take the steps to get us there.

I all cool for you taking subsidy, but this is my road for the past 15 years

And I use premium so I not subsidized $21.82 a gallon, come on man

Yes crap happen with kamla and manning with regards to spending. But what guarantee I have that Rowley will be different?

You could cut all the subsides you want but they way politicians spend money here it will never make a difference.

They just wasteful....that's it

You give them a 1 billion they will spend 1 billion and 1. Saying it will bring benefits, we yet to see benefits from the buildings in POS. Kamla them worse yet she ain't even bother to try to bring in some FDI in her five years.

[zoom rader]

Ppl need to understand subsidies dont make us stronger, it makes us weaker. Direct the subsidies to those who really need it, but subsidies allow for dependency and lack of innovation. Look no further than Venezuela and see what subsidised fuel and food gets you.

We need to be weaned off of subsidies and allow for true trini innovation and a true free market society. Everybody love to compare TT to the US and Singapore but nobody wants to take the steps to get us there.

A true free market does not exist under PNM.

Here we have a family that owns PNM and nearly all of trini somehow got the government to squeeze out small time car dealers in favour of their car business .

Have you driven a an overpriced ford lately