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where were you before you were born?bluesclues wrote:src1983 wrote:Actually you will reincarnate....
You see your body is made of atoms, and will never be destroyed, for example when you die your body will decompose creating food and nutrients for other organism
my body is not me ;P the flesh will decay, the atoms that make it up will spread and become part of a different system. one where the Spirit of life utilizes those same atoms as building blocks for other organisms. but those same exact atoms coming back together in the same arrangement wont happen. reincarnation is for those who dont obtain spiritual liberation by the grace of God. those who have to try again.
arranging atoms alone doesnt create a living thing. it requires the breath of life of the spirit to be breathed into it and become conscious. when you become that breath, you dont reincarnate unless by choice.
but that would be a problem even if the whole world was under Sharia, not so?chulo45 wrote:Yes. But the problem is catching the criminals
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:where were you before you were born?
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:but that would be a problem even if the whole world was under Sharia, not so?chulo45 wrote:Yes. But the problem is catching the criminals
But enforcement is the problem with all laws in every country, even here in T&T.chulo45 wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:but that would be a problem even if the whole world was under Sharia, not so?chulo45 wrote:Yes. But the problem is catching the criminals
That's my point, the law itself is not the problem as people make it out to be. It is the authority's ability to catch the criminals
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:But enforcement is the problem with all laws in every country, even here in T&T.chulo45 wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:but that would be a problem even if the whole world was under Sharia, not so?chulo45 wrote:Yes. But the problem is catching the criminals
That's my point, the law itself is not the problem as people make it out to be. It is the authority's ability to catch the criminals
Technically if we had 100% enforcement of our laws in T&T then crime would not be a problem.
Ziyaad said there was no crime in Saudi because they practice Sharia. I am saying there is crime in Saudi just like everywhere else, regardless of Sharia or not.
Don't get me wrong. I am not against any country carrying out their laws, once the people of that country are ok with it. But introducing Sharia into a country will not mean crime will automatically disappear.
was that said in this thread?chulo45 wrote:I agree. But a lot of people think sharia itself is the problem.
Griffith: Eyes on T&T ISIS terrorists
By Joel Julien joel.julien@trinidadexpress.com
Story Created: Nov 6, 2014 at 11:18 PM ECT
Story Updated: Nov 6, 2014 at 11:18 PM ECT
NAIVE individuals from this country who have been lured to join the terrorist group the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) are being monitored, National Security Minister Gary Griffith has said. He spoke at yesterday’s post-cabinet news briefing at the Office of the Prime Minister, St Clair, Port of Spain.
Griffith said these individuals could only have been monitored with the assistance from this country’s international intelligence allies.
That assistance from those international allies was forthcoming because of the decision by Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar to cosponsor United States President Barack Obama’s anti-terrorist resolution, Griffith said.
“There are over 80 countries that have persons who have now been involved as freedom terrorist fighters, (FTFs) and because of that it means persons are being lured throughout the world to get into Syria for the almighty dollar. It is not just any more based on a radical religious belief. It is along the lines of mercenaries,” Griffith said.
Griffith said if young persons from this country are being lured to join local gangs, who is to think they would not go Syria in pursuit of money.
“If we can see it happening right here in Trinidad and Tobago where young persons are being lured by gang members to be involved in criminal activity we should not just think that by not cosigning a resolution, the problem would go away. The problem was already here, it was here in 1990, it was here when the first lady’s car was shot at, it was here when there was an improvised explosive device placed in Port of Spain,” he said.
“So it is unfortunate that people will think that you could only deal with terrorist activity by hoping it just flies over your head. We need to face this head on and accept the fact, and the fact also shows that several persons have been indirectly involved in being foreign terrorist fighters. We have no information of us involved in terrorist financing because we are aware that ISIS is one of the more lucrative and the richest of all terrorist organisations.
“What we do have is intelligence to verify that there are individuals that are naive enough to actually go across there. And this is why we need to monitor them and that can only be done by us working with our international intelligence allies.
“They provided us with real time information that could only be done if it is we had cosigned that resolution and by doing that it is assisting us greatly in the travel-watch list monitoring their movement seeing not just themselves but persons who are also aiding and abetting these individuals,” Griffith said.
“There is a difference between intelligence and evidence but the intelligence is there. For obvious reasons I would not expand as to what we do know but what I can say is that we are fully aware of the situation and we will continue to monitor as we go along,” he said.
Griffith said the People’s Partnership Government is proactive.
“This is also why we have been very proactive we have never been behind the eight ball to deal with this situation. Which is why it is we have the establishment soon of the counter terrorist intelligence unit to deal with intelligence specifically for terrorist activities.
“Which is why we have established the special operations group which is a group under the National Operations Centre that deals specifically with combatting any incident with terrorist hostility, hostage negotiations or improvised explosive devices. And also why it is we acquired armoured personnel carriers where people attacked a certain minister, Gary Griffith, and I am not hearing them now.
“When we had the incident in Canada’s Parliament those were some of the first set of vehicles that came out and it shows that we are not a Government that waits for things to happen. We are proactive and we are doing what is required to provide that deterrent and provide citizens of this country with their most fundamental right, which is that of safety and security,” Griffith said.
chulo45 wrote:There are 19 conditions that has to be fulfilled for a persons limb to be amputated. Even if 1 is not fulfilled, their limb cannot be amputated
http://www.imamreza.net/eng/imamreza.php?id=7466Before amputing the hands of the thief the following conditions must be fulfilled. Even if one of them is absent, the punishment is not carried out:
1. The thief must be an adult. The signs of adulthood according to Shari’a are the completion of fifteen lunar years for a boy and nine lunar years for a girl. Another sign of maturity is the growth of pubic hair. The third sign is the ejaculation of semen in boys and the beginning of the menstrual cycle in the girl. Even if one of these signs are present the concerned person is an adult. So if the thief is not an adult his hands cannot be amputed. At the most the judge releases him after issuing a stern warning so that he may not dare to repeat this act.
Abdullah Ibn Sinan relates the following tradition from Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq (a.s.): “When a minor child steals for the first and the second time he is forgiven. If he does it for the third time he is issued a strict warning and beating. If he persists in his crime, the tips of his fingers are slightly cut and if he repeats the act, some more of his fingers are cut away.”
2. The thief must be sane. So if an insane person robs, his hand is not amputed. He may be suitably warned and scolded.
3. The thief must not have resorted to stealing under duress, if he had been compelled to do so, the penal code is not applied.
4. The stolen thing must be something that is worth owning. Hence, if ones freedom is restricted it cannot be called a theft.
5. The value of the stolen object must not be less than one-fourth misqal of pure gold. One misqal is equal to eighteen grams. One-fourth misqal is four-and-a-half gram.
6. The son or the slave of the thief must not own the thing that is stolen. So if a father steals from his son, he is not punished. On the contrary if a son or a daughter steals from the father or mother their hands are amputed. The same rule applies to the master and the slave. If the master robs his slave he is not punished. On the other hand, there exists a difference of opinion on the matter of whether the slave who steals from his master is to be accorded the punishment of theft or not. Some Mujtahids are of the opinion that if a servant steals from his office or employer, he should not be given the full penalty. Other Mujtahids have issued a decree that there is no difference between a servant, a workman and other people. They shall be deserving of the penalty. There is also a difference of opinion with regard to the theft committed by a guest from his host. The most prevalent verdict is that the guest must be punished.
7. Eatables stolen during the times of famine do not make the thief liable for having his hands cut. It is narrated from Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq (a.s.) that he said:
“In the time of famine and draught the hands of a thief are not cut off for stealing edible items like bread and meat etc.”
8. If a soldier participates in a raid and steals from the plundered goods obtained in war before they are distributed, he is exempted from the punishment.
9. If one of the parties to a transaction steals a property and claims that it rightfully belongs to him, he is not liable to be punished.
10. If a person is accused of theft, but before his theft is proved to the judge, he pays the owner the value of the goods, he is not penalised. Similarly, if a son steals from his father but before the verdict is issued the father dies, the son is not punished, as stolen goods now comprise his inheritance.
11. If the use of the stolen things is Harām (e.g. wine or pork), there is no penal action against the robber.
12. If the thief claims that he had not taken a particular thing with the intention of stealing it, and the judge considers otherwise, there shall be no punishment for it.
13. The object should have been stolen from a place where the owner’s permission is required to enter. If a theft takes place in a public mosque or public bath, the thief does not have his hand amputed.
14. The thing should have been stolen from a secure place. If something is not kept in a safe place and left open, the theft of it does not incur punishment. Hence valuables should be kept under lock and key. The fruits should not have been stolen from the trees. They should have been already picked and stored in the orchard. The four-footed animals have to be stolen from the stables. Wares have to be stolen from inside the shop. The pocket that is picked must be an inside one and not the one that hangs outward. Money should be stolen from a safe etc. The shroud should have been stolen from the grave.
15. The thief must himself take away the stolen goods from their proper place. If one takes out the thing from its safe place and another one takes it away, neither of the two can be punished for theft. Because, the one who has taken out the thing from its safe place has not stolen it and the one who has stolen it has not done so from its place of safety. We have already mentioned that one who steals something from other than its proper place is not given the punishment of theft. Only that thief is punished who removes the thing from its proper place and also takes it away. If more than one person are involved in stealing something from its proper place and taking it away, then the value of the stolen property is divided by the number of people involved. If the share of each person is more than one-fourth misqal all their hands are amputed but if their individual shares are less than this then none of them are punished in this manner.
If a thief removes the stolen object and loads it on his animal, or gives it to an insane man or a minor child for taking it away, he is penalised. This is because the animal, the insane person and the child are mere carriers of the goods.
16. Severing of the hand is a punishment for theft. Theft implies that someone takes away something without the knowledge of others who later realize that the thing is missing. Hence if a person forcibly loots some goods from its owner, he is not punished for theft. He is beaten up and issued a warning, so that he may not repeat the act. However if the goods are looted using a weapon, the punishment is equal to that of being at war against the Muslims. (This punishment is described in the thirty-third ayat of Surah al-Mā’ida. Either the criminal is killed or crucified, the left and the right foot is amputed, or he is to be exiled; the judge can award one of these punishments.)
17. If before a theft can be proved, the thief goes to the judge and repents and promises not to steal in future he is saved from the punishment. Once the theft has been proved, repentance is of no consequence and punishment will be implemented.
18. For a theft to be proved, two just witnesses should have seen the thief stealing. It may also be that there is just one witness but the owner also testifies that robbery has taken place. The thief may himself confess twice of his theft and deserve to be penalised. If he confesses only once, the stolen goods are taken away from him and restored to the owner. He is not punished for theft.
19. If the owner takes back his goods or allows the thief to keep them before the matter is reported to the Qazi and does not press for a penalty, the thief is not punished. However if the crime is proved before the judge even the owner cannot save the thief from punishment.
Some Mujtahids believe that if two just people have not witnessed the theft and it is only proved by two confessions of the thief, the judge has the prerogative to condone him. It is mentioned in the book Tahzīb that a person came to Amir ul-Mu’minīn ‘Ali (a.s.) and confessed of having stolen something. Hazrat ‘Ali (a.s.) asked him, “Can you recite some portions of the Qur’an?”
He said, “Yes, Surah al-Baqarah.”
‘Ali (a.s.) said, “I have respited your hand in exchange of Surah al-Baqarah.”
Ashath said, “O ‘Ali (a.s.)! Have you overlooked the Divine penalty?”
‘Ali (a.s.) replied, “What do you know? Awarding the penalty is only necessary when two just witnesses have testified. But if the crime is confessed by the thief himself, the Imam can condone him.”
NST wrote:How many conditions are there for killing someone for blasphemy??
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-29933125
what about apostasy (leaving the religion)?chulo45 wrote:NST wrote:How many conditions are there for killing someone for blasphemy??
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-29933125
This concept of blasphemy and the prescribed punishment are both contradictory to the Qur'an and the Prophet's conduct. The Qur'an prescribes restraint, and distancing from the blasphemous persons or situations. The emphasis is on restraint and forgiveness. A study of the following verses should bear this out:
"When ye hear the signs of Allah held in defiance and ridicule, ye are not to sit with them unless they turn to a different theme." [Qur'an 4:140]
"And when they hear vain talk, they turn away therefrom and say: "to us our deeds and to you yours; peace be to you." [Qur'an 28: 55]
"Hold to forgiveness, command what is right; but turn away from the ignorant." [Qur'an 7:199]
"Have patience with what they say, and leaves them with noble (dignity)." [Qur'an 73:10]
"And the servants of Allah . . . are those who walked on the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say 'Peace'" [Qur'an 25:63]
"Allah is with those who restrain themselves." [Qur'an 16: 128]
". . . But they uttered blasphemy . . . if they repent, it will be best for them, but if they turn back, Allah will punish them." [Qur'an 9:47]
http://muslimcanada.org/HamdardBlasphemy.html
AdamB wrote:Is it against the law of T&T to work outside the country?
Is it against the law to travel to Iraq and Syria? (Gaza, Palestine and Israel for that matter).
Is it against the law for someone to take up a job in the war, be it as a cook or medic or fight in frontline or whatever else as supporting roles that may be necessary?
Are we free in T&T to do as we please / wish / desire?
chulo45 wrote:http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-the-scholar/crimes-and-penalties/apostasy/172501-should-an-apostate-be-put-to-death.html
Apostasy can be classed as major and minor. Major apostasy is when someone leaves Islam and also tarnishes its name or attacks Muslims. Minor apostasy is when someone just leaves Islam.
IPOH, Malaysia (AP) — It was the last round of a recurring argument: M. Indira Gandhi's husband wanted her to convert to Islam. A committed Hindu, she refused. He threatened divorce. Both started shouting. Neighbors came looking. Suddenly, he snatched their 11-month-old daughter from the arms of an older child, tucked her under one arm and sped off on his motorbike.
That was more than five years ago. Gandhi hasn't seen her child since, even though a Malaysian civil court awarded her custody. Her husband — who converted to Islam shortly before taking his daughter away — won custody in an Islamic court. Because Gandhi is not a Muslim, she was not even called to appear. Police have been unwilling to enforce the civil court's decision.
NoAdamB wrote:Is it against the law of T&T to work outside the country?
NoAdamB wrote:Is it against the law to travel to Iraq and Syria? (Gaza, Palestine and Israel for that matter).
NoAdamB wrote:Is it against the law for someone to take up a job in the war, be it as a cook or medic or fight in frontline or whatever else as supporting roles that may be necessary?
YesAdamB wrote:Are we free in T&T to do as we please / wish / desire?
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