the right to bear arms

[ruffneck_12]

Agreed.

However, i'd be far more concerned about a rise in legally owned firearms being used to settle domestic/public/traffic related disputes. Yuh know Trin's heads hot. Not sure we're mature enough as a society to handle that responsibility just yet.

I used this as a point in a discussion on the topic and was lambasted by others who didn't share my view. The typical Trini who claims to be law abiding cannot adhere to simple traffic laws, how will they behave with a gun in waist.

I believe there should be strict background checks as well as proper training before you can be considered for a firearm. That way the majority of hot heads wont get guns

[*KRONIK*]

Agreed.

However, i'd be far more concerned about a rise in legally owned firearms being used to settle domestic/public/traffic related disputes. Yuh know Trin's heads hot. Not sure we're mature enough as a society to handle that responsibility just yet.

I used this as a point in a discussion on the topic and was lambasted by others who didn't share my view. The typical Trini who claims to be law abiding cannot adhere to simple traffic laws, how will they behave with a gun in waist.

I believe there should be strict background checks as well as proper training before you can be considered for a firearm. That way the majority of hot heads wont get guns

Agreed,

but this all leads back to a completely flawed system of legally obtaining a firearm.

example: i know someone who drinks and drives all the time and has a personal firearm.
he passed money to get it.
he get it seized on numerous occasions because the pulled in on a person during a dispute while drunk.
and 2 days later, it back in his hands.


so if the system to get a legal firearm was based on meeting criteria, the same person would not be able to get 1 as he many instances of drunk driving and violence.
but he so connected, a phone call solves most of his problems.

on the other hand.

my uncle has business, he and the entire family were robbed and hog tied.
he applied for a personal/business firearm but was denied.
just because he went thru the normal channels for the application
and he is not violent or abusive and he does not drink.


a system where 1 man's decision of yes or no to own a firearm is not a system, it is a discretion.

because a lot of people meet the requirements but are denied, yet those who are unsuitable can get it once a few hands get greased!

[Redman]

Agreed.

However, i'd be far more concerned about a rise in legally owned firearms being used to settle domestic/public/traffic related disputes. Yuh know Trin's heads hot. Not sure we're mature enough as a society to handle that responsibility just yet.

I used this as a point in a discussion on the topic and was lambasted by others who didn't share my view. The typical Trini who claims to be law abiding cannot adhere to simple traffic laws, how will they behave with a gun in waist.

How many instances have we HAD in our history where a legal firearm was used to settle a dispute like that??

The emotive nature of this requires use to base action on fact.

The I dont recall any off the top of my head.Im willing to concede i am wrong if shown numbers.
Frankly if a husband decides to kill his wife-he will -what he uses would be irrelevant.she is just as dead.

Trinis abide to laws that are enforced... in fact people all over the world obey laws once the law is enforced.

Once there is a system and its implemented I believe that the instances of mis use will be minimal.

Once however the penalties for mis use are enforced....chit will get real.

[pete]

The difference with licensed guns being used to settle domestic disputes etc. is that there would be a database of guns and serial numbers which can then be used to trace the gun back to the owner using it for sheit like that. People would be arrested soon after and go to jail for using them like that.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

this was discussed previously but I'll ask it again here since the topic has been rekindled:
lets say the gov't grants citizens the right to bear arms in Trinidad.
Now citizens can get personal firearms, bandits arm themselves with bigger firearms, citizens buy even bigger firearms to counter, bandits get bigger bigger firearms to counter that and so on - where does that stop? RPGs? Tanks?

This won't happen as citizens are not allowed to legally get tanks/high powered weapons, so if a criminal decides to roll up in a tank, it shows that the current Government is incapable of controlling illegal weapons and instilling some kind of civil order.

but isn't the purpose of granting the right to bear arms is to allow the citizenry to protect itself from armed criminals by matching firepower?

A government at the same time should try to clamp down on illegal weapons and criminality, thus over a period of time illegal weapons and criminality will be low. Therefore citizens will no longer need there firearms and all will just be lock in a safe.

then what we really need is to work on this, not arm the citizenry.

...so, when everybody in the world learns to drive carefully, we can then get rid of seatbelts, airbags, and crumple zones.

no because driving dangerously is not the only cause of accidents.

[Chimera]

The difference with licensed guns being used to settle domestic disputes etc. is that there would be a database of guns and serial numbers which can then be used to trace the gun back to the owner using it for sheit like that. People would be arrested soon after and go to jail for using them like that.

yup

although the present police database leaves a lot to be desired

ent a couple guns get stolen from forensics the other day?

they could legalize shotguns for home use, people not walking around with that in their waistband

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Seems the real problem is the flawed and corrupt system that already exists.

[Chimera]

^^^ that problem is worldwide and will never be solved.

once there is power there will be corruption

[Sundar]

That's true but it's more like they want everybody to know they packing.

better to keep it silent, noone here is trained in d army to be vigilant and alert expecting the unexpected. most of us are careless and unaware of our surroundings. so having the element of surprise is always a benefit. how many times we go somewhere and just parkup jump out the car, press d button (beep beep) alarm on and go. not me i scope out all around before even parking up.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^^^ that problem is worldwide and will never be solved.

once there is power there will be corruption

that's the spirit?

[Chimera]

^^^ that problem is worldwide and will never be solved.

once there is power there will be corruption

that's the spirit?

be realistic

since the beginning of time there has been corruption and this will never end

there is even corruption right here on tuner with regards to mods and what is allowed to be said, whats instantly deleted, what rules are bent etc....

[Dizzy28]

^^^ that problem is worldwide and will never be solved.

once there is power there will be corruption

that's the spirit?

be realistic

since the beginning of time there has been corruption and this will never end

there is even corruption right here on tuner with regards to mods and what is allowed to be said, whats instantly deleted, what rules are bent etc....

oh noes!!

ABA is now.....

[sMASH]

...so, when everybody in the world learns to drive carefully, we can then get rid of seatbelts, airbags, and crumple zones.

no because driving dangerously is not the only cause of accidents.

shouldn't we put our fate and future in the responding emt's and emergency doctors after the incident occurs? Why should we try to prevent bodily harm, when we have capable medical staff able to rectify he situation after it happens?

[*KRONIK*]

^^^ that problem is worldwide and will never be solved.

once there is power there will be corruption

that's the spirit?

be realistic

since the beginning of time there has been corruption and this will never end

there is even corruption right here on tuner with regards to mods and what is allowed to be said, whats instantly deleted, what rules are bent etc....

U forgot to mention u not allowed to talk about the aforementioned impartiality here.....

Otherwise u go be on ur last strike!

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^^^ that problem is worldwide and will never be solved.

once there is power there will be corruption

that's the spirit?

be realistic

since the beginning of time there has been corruption and this will never end

there is even corruption right here on tuner with regards to mods and what is allowed to be said, whats instantly deleted, what rules are bent etc....

U forgot to mention u not allowed to talk about the aforementioned impartiality here.....

Otherwise u go be on ur last strike!

go ahead talk away, we like feedback, good or bad, just make a new thread so you don't end up hijacking this one

[Redman]

[rspann]

^^^ that problem is worldwide and will never be solved.

once there is power there will be corruption

that's the spirit?

be realistic

since the beginning of time there has been corruption and this will never end

there is even corruption right here on tuner with regards to mods and what is allowed to be said, whats instantly deleted, what rules are bent etc....

U forgot to mention u not allowed to talk about the aforementioned impartiality here.....

Otherwise u go be on ur last strike!

go ahead talk away, we like feedback, good or bad, just make a new thread so you don't end up hijacking this one

Consider that your first warning!

[Slartibartfast]

...so, when everybody in the world learns to drive carefully, we can then get rid of seatbelts, airbags, and crumple zones.

no because driving dangerously is not the only cause of accidents.

shouldn't we put our fate and future in the responding emt's and emergency doctors after the incident occurs? Why should we try to prevent bodily harm, when we have capable medical staff able to rectify he situation after it happens?

Bad analogy.
You talking about safe driving compared to no firearms.

You should compare it to safe firearm regulations, which would include criteria to be met and proper training on usage, storage and maintenance. And with the safe usage and regulations of firearms you still need to take precautions (just like wearing a seatbelt in cars)

I will agree that the current system is crap and needs to be completely redone. It cannot be on he discretion of one man. But at the same time I don't support allowing everybody to have guns (i.e. a right to bear arms). We not ready for it.

[rspann]

That last sentence says it all.

[Slartibartfast]

go ahead talk away, we like feedback, good or bad,

Ever tried holding a microphone to a speaker... amazing...

[88sins]

We not ready for it.

You really need to start practicing speaking for yourself & yourself only. This "we" you like to fling around, you think you're French or sumn?

[Slartibartfast]

We not ready for it.

You really need to start practicing speaking for yourself & yourself only. This "we" you like to fling around, you think you're French or sumn?

Says the one with a mouse wearing a beret in his profile pic

BTW, by "we" I mean the majority of the Trini population. I am not saying "you" are not ready for it... I'm not even saying "I" am not ready...

So are you saying that "we" are ready for it? If so then show me why you think that; if not then what is your point?

[src1983]

We not ready for it.

You really need to start practicing speaking for yourself & yourself only. This "we" you like to fling around, you think you're French or sumn?

Says the one with a mouse wearing a beret in his profile pic

BTW, by "we" I mean the majority of the Trini population. I am not saying "you" are not ready for it... I'm not even saying "I" am not ready...

So are you saying that "we" are ready for it? If so then show me why you think that; if not then what is your point?

You leaving out the majority or people that shouldn't have firearms do, and are not using it as a defence mechanism

[88sins]

BTW, by "we" I mean the majority of the Trini population.

I missed the general election where you were voted into the office of National Mouthpiece, Speaker for the majority of the Trini population.

I reiterate

You really need to start practicing speaking for yourself & yourself only.

[Slartibartfast]

BTW, by "we" I mean the majority of the Trini population.

I missed the general election where you were voted into the office of National Mouthpiece, Speaker for the majority of the Trini population.

I reiterate

You really need to start practicing speaking for yourself & yourself only.

I guess I must be elected as the Permanent National Mouthpiece to state my opinion on all matters relating to the population. I guess I can't state opinions like "we brake the speed limit on a daily basis" or "we do not talk using proper english" or "we think 88sins is being an idiot by arguing semantics and not coming up with a counter argument which is the basis of any discussion"

So are you saying that "we" are ready for it? If so then show me why you think that; if not then what is your point?

To reiterate, I was stating my opinion on the majority of the Trini populace and I am still waiting on your counter argument.

You understand me now... oiu?

[Chimera]

Shotguns for all.

[88sins]

I guess I must be elected as the Permanent National Mouthpiece to state my opinion on all matters relating to the population. I guess I can't state opinions like "we brake the speed limit on a daily basis" or "we do not talk using proper english" or "we think 88sins is being an idiot by arguing semantics and not coming up with a counter argument which is the basis of any discussion"

Ok simpleton, let me spell it out for you in a way that won't overheat your apparently partially functional brain.
By you saying "we" you are painting with a very broad brush & generalizing that Trinbagonians are not ready for this level of responsibility. And if this is your intended meaning, then you are very incorrect. Fact remains there are a lot more than a few FUL holders in T&T, & thus far the vast majority of them have proven to be responsible individuals. Thus refuting your idiotic theory that "we not ready for that".
Additionally, your statements cast an aspersion that tha bulk of Trinbagonians by & large are a nation of persons that are predisposed to self destruction. This again is incorrect.

So are you saying that "we" are ready for it?

No, I am stating that there are a multitude of responsible individuals that have proven they are capable of such responsibility, & it is their choice to decide if they want to bear the burden of responsibility for a firearm or not. As such, they should be allowed to keep arms as may be needed, as long as they can follow any & all laws, guidelines & restrictions relating to their possession of such. If not, said arms will be removed from them & they will ultimately be made to pay the price for their transgression as individuals, not as a collective.

If so then show me why you think that

I will let you figure this one out on your own. But here's some homework for you.
Of the few thousand trained, FUL carrying firearm users in T&T, how many instances have you observed of these persons using their arms on persons in a negligent manner, or persons being wounded or killed by these FUL holders in the heat of an argument, or while in an intoxicated state as opposed to persons killed by gun toting unlicensed users walking around today?

To reiterate, I was stating my opinion on the majority of the Trini populace and I am still waiting on your counter argument.

In my opinion, the train of thought you are displaying boldly as your opinion strongly resembles the north pointing end of a burro that's heading south.

But to put it in terms you might understand better, as far as I can tell by what you've posted here



































you think like an ass's ass



Now carry on

[BRZ]

Just give people the choice to have them legally without a set of red tape crap, but have laws in place with a proper division for dealing with shootings, when innocent people have used them in justified suit actions then to hell with the victim, no case life goes on, in cases where the firearm holder has used in bad judgment or a moment of haste then prosecute them in a timely manner. What's the problem?

[Slartibartfast]

So are you saying that "we" are ready for it?

No...

You dont know how arguments work do you. We are agreeing with each other. Btw I don't know where you learned maths but "thousands" out of 1.5 million is still a vast minority.

[88sins]

We are agreeing with each other

to believe that you have to be an idiot.

Btw I don't know where you learned maths but "thousands" out of 1.5 million is still a vast minority

Did I or someone else ask you to show the difference between a minority & a majority? I asked you to prove by incidence a specific question, & all you came up with is that halfwitted answer for a question no one asked.

but keep on having at it sparky. "we" go keep gettin kix off yuh