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alfa wrote:adnj wrote:It sure wasn't dreaming.bluefete wrote:sMASH wrote:pete wrote:bluefete wrote:sMASH wrote:'My body my choice'. I can live with that
Yeah. But no one talks about the long-term psychological impact on the woman when she terminates a living life form inside of her.
What about the long term psychological impact of a woman who didn't have everything figured out for herself, made a poor decision and has to now figure out how to take care of herself and another life for the next 18 years? What about the long term psychological impact of the child born into that environment?
every choice has consequences, but at least, dont let govt impose the choice or the consequence. respect me as an autonomous living being to make them.
we not lving in themiddle of the rainforest. if the gyul want to bool down, she hadda know what could happen. and also be free to choose what happens after. if the man dont like the choices after, then he shoudl have acted accordingly, in the first place.
me, i eh wnat no unnecessary tax money minding some dumb girl pickney for 18yrs.
do what the fax u want, no taxes involved at any point, tho.
Plenty of sense in what you wrote. I wonder if our parents had made the decision to abort us, for whatever reason, if we would be having this conversation today.
If a baby's heart starts to beat around 21-30 days after conception - was the baby dead before that?
Higher brain structures only start to appear between weeks 12 and 16.
Coordinated brain activity required for consciousness does not occur until 24-25 weeks of pregnancy.
Alive but no brain? Hmm.
Medical definition of human and alive doesn't necessarily mean everyone will use that as their yard stick and their opinion is equally valid especially when tax payer dollars are involved.
adnj wrote:It sure wasn't dreaming.bluefete wrote:sMASH wrote:pete wrote:bluefete wrote:sMASH wrote:'My body my choice'. I can live with that
Yeah. But no one talks about the long-term psychological impact on the woman when she terminates a living life form inside of her.
What about the long term psychological impact of a woman who didn't have everything figured out for herself, made a poor decision and has to now figure out how to take care of herself and another life for the next 18 years? What about the long term psychological impact of the child born into that environment?
every choice has consequences, but at least, dont let govt impose the choice or the consequence. respect me as an autonomous living being to make them.
we not lving in themiddle of the rainforest. if the gyul want to bool down, she hadda know what could happen. and also be free to choose what happens after. if the man dont like the choices after, then he shoudl have acted accordingly, in the first place.
me, i eh wnat no unnecessary tax money minding some dumb girl pickney for 18yrs.
do what the fax u want, no taxes involved at any point, tho.
Plenty of sense in what you wrote. I wonder if our parents had made the decision to abort us, for whatever reason, if we would be having this conversation today.
If a baby's heart starts to beat around 21-30 days after conception - was the baby dead before that?
Higher brain structures only start to appear between weeks 12 and 16. Would this be justification to kill?
Coordinated brain activity required for consciousness does not occur until 24-25 weeks of pregnancy.Would this be justification to kill?
Alive but no brain? Hmm Really makes you wonder right?
Numbers 5:11-31
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%205%3A11-31&version=NIV
23 ‘The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial[c] offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.
Revelation 8:11
The name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters turned bitter, and many people died from the waters that had become bitter.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%208-11&version=NIV
maj. tom wrote:(Any Bible version you would like, from the NIV, NKJ or even the 1599 Geneva)Numbers 5:11-31
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%205%3A11-31&version=NIV
23 ‘The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial[c] offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.
Bitter Water? Well, that's in the Bible too!Revelation 8:11
The name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters turned bitter, and many people died from the waters that had become bitter.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%208-11&version=NIV
Wormwood has been known since very ancient times to do this https://muvs.org/en/topics/t-plants/mugwort/
So it's literally in the Bible on how to perform abortions.
Set of circle jerking hypocrites.
alfa wrote:maj. tom wrote:(Any Bible version you would like, from the NIV, NKJ or even the 1599 Geneva)Numbers 5:11-31
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%205%3A11-31&version=NIV
23 ‘The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial[c] offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.
Bitter Water? Well, that's in the Bible too!Revelation 8:11
The name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters turned bitter, and many people died from the waters that had become bitter.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%208-11&version=NIV
Wormwood has been known since very ancient times to do this https://muvs.org/en/topics/t-plants/mugwort/
So it's literally in the Bible on how to perform abortions.
Set of circle jerking hypocrites.
Wow pretty interesting read. But personally I never use religion to justify my stance on abortion. I always say if you need a religious text to tell you taking the life of an unborn is wrong you have bigger issues. Same as with homosexuality, if people need a Bible to tell them it's disgusting for two hard back man to play hide the hot dog then some moral compasses need to be recalibrated
adnj wrote:alfa wrote:maj. tom wrote:(Any Bible version you would like, from the NIV, NKJ or even the 1599 Geneva)Numbers 5:11-31
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%205%3A11-31&version=NIV
23 ‘The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial[c] offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.
Bitter Water? Well, that's in the Bible too!Revelation 8:11
The name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters turned bitter, and many people died from the waters that had become bitter.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%208-11&version=NIV
Wormwood has been known since very ancient times to do this https://muvs.org/en/topics/t-plants/mugwort/
So it's literally in the Bible on how to perform abortions.
Set of circle jerking hypocrites.
Wow pretty interesting read. But personally I never use religion to justify my stance on abortion. I always say if you need a religious text to tell you taking the life of an unborn is wrong you have bigger issues. Same as with homosexuality, if people need a Bible to tell them it's disgusting for two hard back man to play hide the hot dog then some moral compasses need to be recalibrated
Pro-life and anti-gay.
Unless that bigdick is stretching your assshole out, I don't see how you are affected at all. Perhaps you tried and didn't like it.
. Run along now sir/ ma'am/ whatever gender you identify asadnj wrote:alfa wrote:maj. tom wrote:(Any Bible version you would like, from the NIV, NKJ or even the 1599 Geneva)Numbers 5:11-31
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%205%3A11-31&version=NIV
23 ‘The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial[c] offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.
Bitter Water? Well, that's in the Bible too!Revelation 8:11
The name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters turned bitter, and many people died from the waters that had become bitter.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%208-11&version=NIV
Wormwood has been known since very ancient times to do this https://muvs.org/en/topics/t-plants/mugwort/
So it's literally in the Bible on how to perform abortions.
Set of circle jerking hypocrites.
Wow pretty interesting read. But personally I never use religion to justify my stance on abortion. I always say if you need a religious text to tell you taking the life of an unborn is wrong you have bigger issues. Same as with homosexuality, if people need a Bible to tell them it's disgusting for two hard back man to play hide the hot dog then some moral compasses need to be recalibrated
Pro-life and anti-gay.
Unless that bigdick is stretching your assshole out, I don't see how you are affected at all. Perhaps you tried and didn't like it.
maj. tom wrote:No it didn't pal. HIV was around for a long, long time, but unidentified. It's only when Reagan started his hatred campaign and policies that gay people became the spotlight scapegoat for his voters. Try reading some more instead of wasting your time on other people's affairs. They're living rent-free in your head and you're wasting your productivity thinking about all these things that simply do not even affect you.
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-29442642
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_HIV/AIDS#History_of_spread
But let's stay on topic here, maybe you can tell us about your womb and how many babies you successfully brought to life into this world. I mean, your arguments revolve around how this affects you right? Or is it "will somebody think about the unborn children but after they're born that's not my business anymore!"
maj. tom wrote:It's not the same thing. For the record, I do support the death penalty when the evidence is 100% sure and not circumstantial. They're arguing that the State is executing a living person.
A baby is born and alive when it leaves the womb and can breathe whether assisted or on its own outside the womb. That's why abortions are not recommended in later stages. That's why stillborn is not considered alive even though fully developed. Outside the womb it is not alive. That's why a miscarriage is not alive. That's why babies can be born with severe genetic defects and die very soon after leaving the womb, but they were defined as alive. A fetus is not alive. It may have certain biological functions but the definition of alive is stated above. You're only pretending that it is because you have feelings and completely ignoring the actual living being that is carrying the fetus into life when it will be born.
Again, you only care about the unborn. You're the champion of something that does not exist, has no feelings and does not actually affect you in any way. After they're born, that's not your business anymore, like the typical anti-abortionist who is severely under-educated on the reality of the topic, but you have a lot of feelings about it. But after they're born... "not my problem."
I am not here to change your mind, so I'll sign off this topic now.
maj. tom wrote:It's not the same thing. For the record, I do support the death penalty when the evidence is 100% sure and not circumstantial. They're arguing that the State is executing a living person.
A baby is born and alive when it leaves the womb and can breathe whether assisted or on its own outside the womb. That's why abortions are not recommended in later stages. That's why stillborn is not considered alive even though fully developed. Outside the womb it is not alive. That's why a miscarriage is not alive. That's why babies can be born with severe genetic defects and die very soon after leaving the womb, but they were defined as alive. A fetus is not alive. It may have certain biological functions but the definition of alive is stated above. You're only pretending that it is because you have feelings and completely ignoring the actual living being that is carrying the fetus into life when it will be born.
Again, you only care about the unborn. You're the champion of something that does not exist, has no feelings and does not actually affect you in any way. After they're born, that's not your business anymore, like the typical anti-abortionist who is severely under-educated on the reality of the topic, but you have a lot of feelings about it. But after they're born... "not my problem."
I am not here to change your mind, so I'll sign off this topic now.
maj. tom wrote: A dead fetus? Then that would be a miscarriage and the womb will eject it.
I didn't say it was dead. I said it was not defined as alive.
But that's how some people only interpret the world around them: black or white and nothing else. And it's usually around between 20 and 24 weeks when brain activity occurs that distinguishes it from a mass of organized cells; it's at this point that it likely has a chance to survive outside the womb and is thought to have brain function high enough to consider it alive and human if it can breathe outside the womb. When it leaves the womb it is born. Else it is unborn and the mother has autonomy over her body and what it contains. This is a defined point in Biomedical Ethics and determines the cut off point for abortions in many countries up to 24 weeks. https://www.mediafire.com/file/xboa837x ... .pdf/file/
[PDF attached full paper of https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21146341/]
But once again (of course) the point that you are missing is the autonomy of the woman, the one who carries the fetus into life. Everything you said so far completely ignores her, her existence and her right of choice, her safety, her health, her mental well-being... it's all about an unborn entity that does not exist. You are the champion of this entity. It cannot challenge you in any way. Once it's born however "well they can get adopted." Dust your hands, the saga ends there with you anti-abortionists. Have you ever adopted?
Why are you concerned about fetal pain, but don't consider the pain of the mother or the possible surgical procedures when the baby is born, like circumcision? Or removal of an eye because of retinoblastoma. Or what about fetal genetic cell therapy inside the womb so Huntington's Disease won't develop after birth? That "pain" would be ok though? The baby consented to that I suppose? The baby has no memory of pain. It is not traumatic in any way to its development. Have you ever been under general anaesthesia? You know how that works? General anesthesia works by interrupting nerve signals in your brain and body. It prevents your brain from processing pain and from remembering what happened during your surgery. It blocks your memory of the trauma of the surgery so you cannot remember you were in pain and it does not affect your psychology such as developing PTSD. You get knocked out and have no memory of it occurring, all you remember is waking up. So why is fetal pain so important to you?
So you want to start building a house. You buy material, draw plans, get approval, clear the land, build drains. Not a house yet right? Lay foundation. House yet? 4 walls. Plumbing. House yet? Put up the roof. Yes it's now a house, you can live in in and take shelter, even though it's not complete. But was it a really a livable house before the roof? Or was it nothing before? Either a house or nothing according to you? Must be black or white. Nothing else according to you.
maj. tom wrote:It's not the same thing. For the record, I do support the death penalty when the evidence is 100% sure and not circumstantial. They're arguing that the State is executing a living person.
A baby is born and alive when it leaves the womb and can breathe whether assisted or on its own outside the womb. That's why abortions are not recommended in later stages. That's why stillborn is not considered alive even though fully developed. Outside the womb it is not alive. That's why a miscarriage is not alive. That's why babies can be born with severe genetic defects and die very soon after leaving the womb, but they were defined as alive. A fetus is not alive. It may have certain biological functions but the definition of alive is stated above. You're only pretending that it is because you have feelings and completely ignoring the actual living being that is carrying the fetus into life when it will be born.
Again, you only care about the unborn. You're the champion of something that does not exist, has no feelings and does not actually affect you in any way. After they're born, that's not your business anymore, like the typical anti-abortionist who is severely under-educated on the reality of the topic, but you have a lot of feelings about it. But after they're born... "not my problem."
I am not here to change your mind, so I'll sign off this topic now.
redmanjp wrote:Supreme Court Live Updates: Leaked Draft Would Overturn Roe v. Wade
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/05/02/us/roe-v-wade-abortion-supreme-court#roe-v-wade-abortion-supreme-court
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