Short/long term investments/retirement policies etc advise

[Redman]

Trac

That number does not make sense given the size of Maritime.
As to whether it IS in fact for sale -well that could be possible(especially at that price)
The new legislation coming is going to change many of the current business habits.
Many of the operators/owners are willing to be bought out to save the hassle.

On another not are we allowed to critique other posts that are IMHO posting questionable info?

[brams112]

Ok in my experience investing I have discovered that utc does pay a better interest rate,right now banks paying no interest at all,I have money in both income funds in utc,they pay more income than the bank for the year and I have money in the bank that is six times what I got in utc,thing is for me for the last twenty years utc was and still is a better investment.As for stocks I was lucky to get in on rbtt before the buyout,so now I am receiving around 120 cad or a little more dividends per year.Also I bought plipdeco shares when they came on the stock exchange.As for insurance critical illness is the way to go,ur never know when you will need help,I got a Life Evolution Rejuvenator from guardian hoping when it matures I will get my bread,lol.
For the guys who needs a stock broker WISE at628-9473, got the advise to buy rbtt form their broker,thing about shares is you have to do a lot of research,shares can only be bought if it is available on the exchange at an agreed price with your broker,tried to get guardian when it was 11.50 but none was available,I almost lost a lot with a bad call on plipdeco,that is how I got rbtt,also at the time of the rbtt buy out I was advised to buy massy shares,they were around 30 buck I believe.

[AllTrac]

On another not are we allowed to critique other posts that are IMHO posting questionable info?

please do, thats one of the many purpose of this thread, more geared towards the investor, so all info, pros and cons is gladly invited, just no name calling and mud slinging we can keep it civil, no policy is perfect so im sure there will be a catch some where or some holes, i expect that, its is the size of those loopholes that concerns me hence this thread.

My reason for dropping the maritime rumor in this thread was so find out if there is any truth to it as my family current have policies with them and im about to take one out, but since that rumor im questioning the stability of the company. One this the outshined most of the other policies is that admed pays instantly and does not require a 30 day survival after diagnosis to pay up.

[Redman]

Why pay fees and commissions to a Third Party from your hard-earned monies that are being invested ?

Purchasing Life Insurance or an annuity/pension through a third party like a broker does not add any cost to the client.

maybe the author can show where this happens in Trinidad.
There are advisers that consult on PORTFOLIOS as a service that the client pays for-but certainly using a broker that is not an agent for a specific insurance co as I think the author is.

[francis1979]

i have group life and group medical offered to me by my job with guardian life, i also have maritime admed, so im pretty set wrt to critical illness.

How about posting some info here on what retirement or investment policies you all offer so we can all discuss it and critique it.

No probs.....

At Guardian we have registered and unregistered annuities :

Registered Annuities pros & cons :

pros - tax break on contributions made
long term investment so positive performance is pretty much guaranteed
Registered with BIR so funds are insured.
1% minimum guaranteed rate ( some competitors offer ZERO )
cons :

Not registered with BIR so no tax break
25% charge if policy is surrendered before maturity
No access to funds, unless surrendered or matured.
Charges on payments made for the first few years

UNREGISTERED ANNUITY

pros - not registered with government so no taxes on monies
again, long term product so good performance is pretty much guaranteed.
Conservative, Moderate and Aggresive funds to choose from when investing ( can split premiums in all three funds and switch as seen fit )
No penalties for surrendering after 5 years
Access to monies before maturity ( after 5 years )

Cons - no tax break since not registered with BIR
No minimum guarantee rate.
Penalties if surrendered within first 5 years

We also have an investor portfolio attached to our Life Evolution product. Same concept as an annuity except, no penalties at all for withdrawals, no minimum guaranteed rate, no charges at maturity ( 65 or older if you choose ), full access to 100% of funds, no tax break as not a registered pension product. Pretty good performance over the past year, over 6% growth, despite economic downturn

I can email you guys our monthly growth statistics and information on our other products, its too much to post here.

Trac, one question for you ? What formula was used by the Agent to calculate how much Life and CI coverage is sufficient for you ? The reason i ask is because, out of every 5 persons i meet, 3 of them are vastly under-insured and are unaware till the calculations are done for them.

Feel free to pm me your address ok.

Information and analysis is FREE

One thing that you did not declare in your Statement for your "UNREGISTERED ANNUITY" is that the Insurance companies takes 12 to 18 months of your initial deposit since this is not refundable. Do you know how much interest the plan will need to pay for the investor to just break even.

Next thing people should be on the look out for by Insurance Companies is the use unreasonable return rates in their proposals.

[Premera]

with respect to insurance companies " taking 12 - 18 month's premiums ".

This happens ONLY if and when you surrender the policy before the " penalty period '

remember, an annuity is deemed a LONG TERM investment and an insurer would buy into bonds and long term investment instruments. If you cancel before time, then we have to do the same and incur penalties as well.

It all boils down to knowing what type of investment you want ( short, medium, long term ) and exactly the purpose of the investment product.

With respect to looking at interest rates and companies showing projections and so on. I am one that tells all my clients " if you want a million dollars in ten years then accumulate it with your capital, forget about interest, if you get , then consider it icing on the cake "

The moment we start running down high interest rates, we heading for trouble as whenever we read or hear about a new product offering a higher rate, we calling up we agent to amend or cancel our policy.

it is unfair that banks offering spit as interest and insurance companies taking a beating after the CLICO mess but to avoid getting caught in the melee, I prefer to do it on my own. I just use the company as the vehicle to get me there............

[Redman]

Premera

The charges are administrative and have very little to do with the investment portfolio.

The charges associated with a bond purchase or sale are less than .25%
Local equity charges are about 3% on the ultra high side.
International equity charges are .5%
So to try to say its investment charges is wrong.

[crazychinee]

On another not are we allowed to critique other posts that are IMHO posting questionable info?

please do, thats one of the many purpose of this thread, more geared towards the investor, so all info, pros and cons is gladly invited, just no name calling and mud slinging we can keep it civil, no policy is perfect so im sure there will be a catch some where or some holes, i expect that, its is the size of those loopholes that concerns me hence this thread.

My reason for dropping the maritime rumor in this thread was so find out if there is any truth to it as my family current have policies with them and im about to take one out, but since that rumor im questioning the stability of the company. One this the outshined most of the other policies is that admed pays instantly and does not require a 30 day survival after diagnosis to pay up.

I like where this thread is going. So far i've had the unfortunate experience of meeting and going through the policies for all the major insurance companies, and ...Guardian still comes out on top for me.

Are you aware that lets say you have critical illness and life insurance with Admed, and you utilize the critical illness and then DIE that the difference comes out of the whole life policey? Meaning if you have a 1M policy and a 500,000 Critiical and you die following diagnosis the TOTAL amount that can be paid out is 1M?
Even their medical policy is mess, they give a high amount on SURGICAL fees, so what happens when you get diagnosed with say luekemia, or get hospitalized for something that needs medical management?


With regards to investment, I like the way the colfire and guardian allows a cashout on the universal policies without affecting the sum assured.

[crazychinee]

On a side note premera handles my insurances for me now, good agent and not very naggy like most of the others.

Anyone running down a 'high interest' investment that looks too good too be true deserves to lose their money.
Anything that seems too good tobe true, generally is.

On a side note, Scotia Jamaica stocks on an average all time low, time to buy.

[Redman]

^^^^^^^^
High relative to what?
And investors are supposed to search for the best interest rate,an earlier post indicates that UTC is paying good rates so their rate is obviously high.
So run from UTC?

Colfire policies have a cash value?
I don't think they offer life insurance
You sure it's colfire?

As to scotia JA, why is it a good time to buy ?

Stocks hit all time lows for a reason.
And there is always for a NEW all time low.
Be careful

[francis1979]

This is my experience with "Company A" in 2010 when I attempted to open a "UNREGISTERED ANNUITY" with a monthly premium of $1000.

The terms and conditions received in the Policy Contract were:
1. During the 1st policy year 40% of all premium will be allocated to the fund
2. Also on all subsequent premiums from the second contract year, 88% of all premiums will be allocated to the fund.
3. Guaranteed interest rate of 4.5%

By coincidence; prior to receiving my policy contract I was reading an article on "Management Fees & Policies" charges by Fund Managers & Insurance Companies.

So I did some calculations and found:
1. After 10 years I would have invested $120,000 with only $99,840 being allocated to a fund. The rest would be allocated as management fees.
2. Policy at guaranteed rate of 4.5% after 10 years = $126,657.74
3. UTC Regular Money Market (e.g. FCB, Unit Trust or any other institution) at interest rate of 2% = $134,024.59 ( This calculation was performed in 2011 when rates were higher)
4. Breakeven for my Annuity is 8-9 years.

Luckily I never signed the "Policy Receipt Form" and was able to obtain a full refund on my premiums.

Lesson Learnt for me:1) Always read the Terms & Conditions (fine print). Especially with respect to Management Fees and Early Termination
2) Never sign for receipt of your contract until you have reviewed your contract. If you are not happy with the contact you can obtain a full refund of payments.

[Premera]

thanks for the big up c.chiney.

redman, with respect to interest rates ( high or low ), the point i'm trying to make is that the moment one changes the focus of the goal intended through the product purchased then it will always be a run around for them, always looking for a better rate of return.

In my experience in the Industry, 5-7 years aback, I had clients that went to CLICO for the 15% rate offered and so on, 3-4 years ago when the clico collapse occurred the cried blood as they came to me asking " can you help me get back our money "

These client's had millions invested and even those that has under 500k were frustrated.

Note that at the same time, Guardian was offering between 9-11% rate of return, with a minimum guarantee on the policy and yet they opted to run down the high interest rate.

The clients were guilty of jumping in at clico with eyes closed because they assumed that there was a minimum guarantee on the clico policy as well. Imagine their surprise when the collapse came.

After the collapse, the mindset of the investor has changed from securing high interest to securing their capital. I have clients that say interest is third priority for them.

1st - Capital Guarantee / Preservation
2nd - Access to funds
3rd - Stability of company / investment fund

The CLICO demise has in my opinion made us all wiser in that we seek detailed information before making decisions, rather than just going by what the agent tells us. We educate ourselves as best as we can regarding anything we do with our monies.

My take on interest is it should NOT be the #1 priority when investing. Stability, fees, penalties, access to funds should be the top list priorities.

[brams112]

My take on investing is you must get value for your investment without losing money by hidden clauses.

[Redman]

Yeah well the EFPA was paying high rates since inception which would be 20 odd years ago.While your experience referenced the last years-the PRODUCT worked for a long time, so many people successfully used the product.


To take the tail end of the CLICO issue to make a general statement is being less than honest.

An honest irrefutable statement would be : Earning an interest rate that is less than the inflation rate means that your REAL RATE OF RETURN is NEGATIVE.
So in Real terms you lose purchasing power.

How many investors are happy having a REAL RETURN of -5% per annum-in the case of fixed deposits
With Inflation at 5.5%(if you believe the CBTT stats) you need more than that to break even in real terms.
That said, an investors job is to maximise his returns for a given level of risk that he is willing to accept

Different investors will have different priorities, but loading up investors in products that generate negative real returns for the long term is poor advice.

Premera,
Please
Clarify your point re third party Annuity sales
also your statement re the investment charges being the cause of the upfront costs in packaged investments

Oh And the fact is that the GORTT has established a precedent to back away from guaranteed insurance products-by walking away from the EFPA means that ANY annuity product is fair game.

[DVSTT]

FCB shares, yes or no?

[Miktay]

thanks for the big up c.chiney.

redman, with respect to interest rates ( high or low ), the point i'm trying to make is that the moment one changes the focus of the goal intended through the product purchased then it will always be a run around for them, always looking for a better rate of return.

In my experience in the Industry, 5-7 years aback, I had clients that went to CLICO for the 15% rate offered and so on, 3-4 years ago when the clico collapse occurred the cried blood as they came to me asking " can you help me get back our money "

These client's had millions invested and even those that has under 500k were frustrated.

Note that at the same time, Guardian was offering between 9-11% rate of return, with a minimum guarantee on the policy and yet they opted to run down the high interest rate.

The clients were guilty of jumping in at clico with eyes closed because they assumed that there was a minimum guarantee on the clico policy as well. Imagine their surprise when the collapse came.

After the collapse, the mindset of the investor has changed from securing high interest to securing their capital. I have clients that say interest is third priority for them.

1st - Capital Guarantee / Preservation
2nd - Access to funds
3rd - Stability of company / investment fund

The CLICO demise has in my opinion made us all wiser in that we seek detailed information before making decisions, rather than just going by what the agent tells us. We educate ourselves as best as we can regarding anything we do with our monies.

My take on interest is it should NOT be the #1 priority when investing. Stability, fees, penalties, access to funds should be the top list priorities.

In other words...I'm more concerned with the return OF my money than the return ON my money.

[PapaC]

FCB shares, yes or no?

Love to hear some intelligent fedback on this.
Been reading up on it,, but not all to familiar with the jargon.
This seems like a good investment IMHO.

[ronsin1]

what about venture capital companies Been looking at some on line there is a Tax deduction for this I was looking to invest as my annuities have maxed out for tax deductions need to find out legal ways to get these deductions

[pugboy]

FYI,

since I posted last time in March,
Witco moved from $88 to $118
Unilever $48 to $55

I been using WISE over 15yrs.

Stocks are a fairly decent investment,
I usually buy some once a year, usually at the start.

Some good stocks for me have been Neal/Massy, Republic, RBTT and lately Witco.
Busts have been TCL and Guardian Insurance.

Unilever and Witco were outstanding last year.

After you build up a critical mass the dividend checks are a good paycheck every quarter instead of the pittance you get from UTC.

Some stocks have gone up a bit so far for the new year.

anyone knows a good stock broker ?

[Redman]

FCB shares, yes or no?

Love to hear some intelligent fedback on this.
Been reading up on it,, but not all to familiar with the jargon.
This seems like a good investment IMHO.

Assuming that you are financially at the point where this investment is suitable to your individual personal scenario,

Get familiar with the jargon-the best thing you can do for you and your money is being informed and up to date as an investor-

Stepping away from FCB specifically , the fact is that there is a lot of liquidity in the system-ie cash/deposits that are chasing relatively few investment alternatives locally.
This keeps a level of demand for stocks-mainly from UTC,Credit Unions,Pension Funds,Insurance Cos that have to pay out to their investors-at a given minimum rate.So these institutions HAVE to put money to work to get a return.So you have a floor so to speak-albeit a finicky one.

The above is compounded by the Low interest rates on deposits money markets and-the fair value calculations for the stock market.
Deposits compete for the same investment money as stocks.You as an investor has a choice.The higher the interest rates on a deposit the more attractive it is to you.

So ONCE interest rates remain low we are in a scenario where the stock market is a relatively attractive choice,there is plenty money floating around looking for a home and life is good.
And specifically banks etc all currently LEND AT 7%+ AND PAY 2% or less ON DEPOSITS.
This intermediation spread is massive-their gross revenue on every dollar deposited is 5%+
Thats ignoring the leverage of fractional banking.
Not a bad start.


The local stock market has benefited from this and will continue to do so as long as things remain as they are.

When we see interest rates start to move up-ie money cost more to borrow,deposit rates are higher,more people will be happier to take X% to leave money in the bank then you should pay attention and get nimble.
Higher interest rates will slow down borrowing,reduce the intermediation spread,increase the alternatives to the stock market -you might see some selling,and activity in the economy will change

We are loosely pegged to US interest rates -at historical lows and need to go higher to absorb the liquidity that is in their market.
That said the amount of debt in the US means that if interest rates go up the repayment of this debt becomes an issue.

Look at Europe-Greece,Spain Italy and UK and their current issues to see the relationships.

So FCB is a good option at the moment and yeah buy some.

All stock markets are based on demand for and supply of stocks-this balance between buyers and sellers is ALL that moves the prices up or down.
Its imperative to look and SEE what drives/creates demand and supply to make decisions.

Hope this helps

[AllTrac]

good stuff Redman

[ray d saint]

FCB - Have a look on the year on year comparitive and the 'projections for 2013'

[rollingstock]

Buy several B14's, put on road as PH taxi.
Initial capital - $35,000
$150 a day for 6 days =$900 (At $150 the driver maintains the vehicle)
At 52 weeks @ $900 = $46,800
Vehicle kept for 5 years for max useful service = $234,000.00
Deduct $34,000 for any serious problems, insurance et al (hardly likely to reach that amount)
Profit $200,000.00

Here's the kicker, invest in some used crims and a flash over and a pioneer deck, immediate resale vaue of $45-50,000.

That's at one car, own a few and fcuk away with toiling for someone else forever.

[zoom rader]

^^^ Good yard investment advice there rollingstock. I rent out a transport truck plus i went the way of renting out apartments and using the proceeds to buy up more real estate. That way you get renters to pay for everything while you sit back and smokes de hurbs.

[Ted_v2]

Renting out apartments makes a good flow of income. steady

[Redman]

Zoom,
What do you get for rent vs the cost of acquisition ?
Some figures would be appreciated

[Miktay]

FCB projects a yield of 4.8% and a P/E of 9.4.

Assuming this holds local equities offering better historical yields/trailing PEs are:
NCB jamaica 8.32%/4.64
Nat Flour Mills 10.67%/5.75
Scotia invest Jam 5.09%/6.14

[pugboy]

FCB should be an ok investment,
many small-med businesses are with fcb now,

don't invest what you can't afford to lose

[ray d saint]

Investments into the TTSE is not for the ones who can spend their 'breakfast money' for the use of a better term.

Simply Put!!

[jusjase44]

interesting topic