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HANGings (YAY or NEY)

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To hang or not to hang?

Heng dem
261
94%
leave them in Jail
9
3%
Pack up and Leave
7
3%
 
Total votes: 277

anthonyanthony
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Re: HANGings (YAY or NEY)

Postby anthonyanthony » August 22nd, 2010, 9:19 am

For crime to really come down or for criminals to fear the law you need to have hangings every hour or less , not have a hanging once every five years. ( for example dole chadee, glen asby )

You also need to start hangings not for just murder but for other crimes that are on the increase such as armed robbery,house breaking, assults, car jackings or car theft etc.

You also need to have these hangings shown on public tv and let the public or would be criminals see these fellers slowly suffer.

Only then will this country be safe.


For the people on the forum who is against hangings , I agree hangings may not reduce or deter crime initaially but at least the people doing these crimes will be gone forever.

I also agree some human rights or criminal lawers will be out of a job but they can always wash cars for a living or sell auto accessories for us tuners on this forum.

I hope the peoples parthnership is serious about this because in the past all of these issues was discussed but nothing happened.
Several years ago I read and article on the express where a layer said wrt cost both legal and logistics it was cheaper to have a man on death row or life in prision than to actually carry out the death panality on him.

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Re: HANGings (YAY or NEY)

Postby bluespeed » August 22nd, 2010, 12:18 pm

anthonyanthony wrote:For crime to really come down or for criminals to fear the law you need to have hangings every hour or less , not have a hanging once every five years. ( for example dole chadee, glen asby )

You also need to start hangings not for just murder but for other crimes that are on the increase such as armed robbery,house breaking, assults, car jackings or car theft etc.

You also need to have these hangings shown on public tv and let the public or would be criminals see these fellers slowly suffer.

Only then will this country be safe.


For the people on the forum who is against hangings , I agree hangings may not reduce or deter crime initaially but at least the people doing these crimes will be gone forever.

I also agree some human rights or criminal lawers will be out of a job but they can always wash cars for a living or sell auto accessories for us tuners on this forum.

I hope the peoples parthnership is serious about this because in the past all of these issues was discussed but nothing happened.
Several years ago I read and article on the express where a layer said wrt cost both legal and logistics it was cheaper to have a man on death row or life in prision than to actually carry out the death panality on him.


if money is the problem for the state, I'll do it for free!.... all materials provided!

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Re: HANGings (YAY or NEY)

Postby UltimateCustomizing » August 22nd, 2010, 2:59 pm

anthonyanthony i agree with some of what you are saying but i think you went a little to far as to want to take a man's life for stealing and showing it over the television
( let he who is without fault cast the first stone )

Mr. Basdeo Panday has the right idea with the different levels of death penalty

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Re: HANGings (YAY or NEY)

Postby anthonyanthony » August 22nd, 2010, 5:04 pm

UltimateCustomizing wrote:anthonyanthony i agree with some of what you are saying but i think you went a little to far as to want to take a man's life for stealing and showing it over the television
( let he who is without fault cast the first stone )

Mr. Basdeo Panday has the right idea with the different levels of death penalty



I am ready to cast the first stone.

Ona serious note a friend of mine put in a lot of sleepless nights and other sacrifices to obtain her degree.
She worked hard at her job ( extra duties, after hours , on weekends ) to get a promotion and then a decent salary.
She finially sold her old car ( that breaks down a lot ) and bought a new one that she wanted ie her dream car.
Being only human like some of us , she love her bling so gradually she bought bling for her car ie rims, flair , music etc.
She made an honest living for these, if she sees something she wants , she works hard and save for it.
Then one night from the gym in the car park she was robbed at gun piont and car was taken. She explained the sacrifices she made to the 3 guys but in the end she got a gun butt in her face.


The car was eventually tracked by carsearch and one guy was caught but it was too late. During the chase the vehicle was badly damaged.
Yes she escaped with her life , but lost out in the end. The guy was a known bandit and boosted he will be doing holidays inside. As I said before people like him should be killed since whats the use you work so hard and cant enjoy the fruits of your labour and other people like him who do not can enjoy your fruits ie when they steal it .
On another note the other 2 guys was never found, the guys who did the robbery wore no masks .



I am sure a lot of people on the forum will agree with me or went thru the same thing.
You may think think in this case the death penality is too harsh but crimes like these are happening a lot and not decreasing. Bandits reach the stage where they wear no masks and do it out in the open in full view of the public.

I was robbed outside the bank in full view of the public , the guy with no mask just attacked me with a 12 inch knife . I had was to throw my wallet to him which just contained $20.00. Up to today he was never found.

If necks start to pop for the petty crimes I am sure people/ bandits will think twice.

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Re: HANGings (YAY or NEY)

Postby - Rovin's car audio - » August 22nd, 2010, 5:16 pm

anthonyanthony wrote:
UltimateCustomizing wrote:anthonyanthony i agree with some of what you are saying but i think you went a little to far as to want to take a man's life for stealing and showing it over the television
( let he who is without fault cast the first stone )

Mr. Basdeo Panday has the right idea with the different levels of death penalty



I am ready to cast the first stone.

Ona serious note a friend of mine put in a lot of sleepless nights and other sacrifices to obtain her degree.
She worked hard at her job ( extra duties, after hours , on weekends ) to get a promotion and then a decent salary.
She finially sold her old car ( that breaks down a lot ) and bought a new one that she wanted ie her dream car.
Being only human like some of us , she love her bling so gradually she bought bling for her car ie rims, flair , music etc.
She made an honest living for these, if she sees something she wants , she works hard and save for it.
Then one night from the gym in the car park she was robbed at gun piont and car was taken. She explained the sacrifices she made to the 3 guys but in the end she got a gun butt in her face.


The car was eventually tracked by carsearch and one guy was caught but it was too late. During the chase the vehicle was badly damaged.
Yes she escaped with her life , but lost out in the end. The guy was a known bandit and boosted he will be doing holidays inside. As I said before people like him should be killed since whats the use you work so hard and cant enjoy the fruits of your labour and other people like him who do not can enjoy your fruits ie when they steal it .
On another note the other 2 guys was never found, the guys who did the robbery wore no masks .


hmmm they hit ah woman ah gun butt wtmc - dem so & so bandits doh give a F bout ppl when they tief their vehicles since all they studying is dey hadda eat ah food too - part of d punishment for tiefing ppl rides shud be about 40 strokes like how d vid in ah next thread showed


about d murderers - well if u kill somebody d authorities shud kill u too : simple as dat , end of story ! .....

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Death Penalty

Postby WarrLordd » August 23rd, 2010, 11:35 am

Should they enforce this more and why?

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Re: Death Penalty

Postby rollingstock » August 23rd, 2010, 11:36 am

Where's the repost option?

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Re: Death Penalty

Postby crazybalhead » August 23rd, 2010, 11:36 am

Discussed in detail, please search.

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Re: HANGings (YAY or NEY)

Postby crazybalhead » August 23rd, 2010, 11:40 am

Bump for the warlord.

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Re: HANGings (YAY or NEY)

Postby janfar » August 24th, 2010, 2:43 am

PoS execution chamber gets a cleaning

THE execution chamber at the Port of Spain prison was cleaned over the weekend, a convicted murderer told the Express yesterday.

The trap door used in the hanging of convicted killers was also greased, the inmate, who requested anonymity for fear of victimisation, said in a telephone interview yesterday.

The chamber's cleaning comes in the wake of repeated calls from Works and Transport Minister Jack Warner for the resumption of hangings.

There are approximately 35 convicted prisoners in the condemned section of the prison. However, only one of the convicted killers, Ronald John, is eligible to be hanged, prison sources said.

The execution chamber is located at the S-2 condemn division of the prison. S-2, C-1 and C-2 condemn divisions are occupied by convicted killers, while condemn divisions G, H and F-1 remain unoccupied.

Contacted yesterday, however, Prisons Commissioner John Rougier said the cleaning of the execution chamber and its mechanisms were routine. Prison authorities, he said, had not received any official information regarding the resumption of hangings.

"That is a normal exercise and every so often we undertake the cleaning-up of that. It has nothing to do with any plan or anything like that (to resume hangings). If, God forbid, something has to happen (and an inmate is hanged) and there is some sort of mishap (while an inmate is being executed), or whatever it is, we don't want to have that at all," Rougier said during a telephone interview.

A level of silence prevailed over the condemn division of the State prison as the cleaning of the execution chamber took place, the prisoner told the Express.

"From all appearances, it looking like they really serious about this thing. They clean the trap and grease it, as well as the execution chamber, the meat board and the autopsy room on Saturday," the condemned prisoner said.

At present, John is within the five-year limit under which convicted murderers can be hanged after the date of their convictions and death sentence, in accordance with the 1993 Pratt and Morgan v the Attorney General of Jamaica ruling of the Privy Council. The Privy Council had stated that a delay in executing the death penalty more than five years after sentencing would be cruel and inhumane treatment.

John was sentenced to death on February 8, 2006, for the murder of club proprietor Kenneth Boxie. Boxie was killed during a robbery at his Starlite Recreation Club in Palmyra Village, San Fernando, on November 27, 2002. At the trial, Justice Mark Mohammed sentenced John to death. He has a petition pending before the Advisory Committee on the Power of Pardon (Mercy Committee) and the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights.

Anthony Briggs was the last person to face the death penalty in this country. He was hanged on July 28 1999, for the murder of a taxi-driver. The month before Briggs's hanging, reputed drug lord Dole Chadee and eight of his cohorts faced the gallows for the killing of a family in Williamsville.

Then Attorney General Ramesh Lawrence Maharaj spearheaded the hangings when the United National Congress (UNC) was in government. There have been no hangings since 1999.

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/PoS ... 56824.html




We getting warmer now...

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Re: HANGings (YAY or NEY)

Postby Premera » August 24th, 2010, 11:15 am

the 18 year old son of businessman from Marabella, whose RX8 knocked down and apparently dragged the OLD MAN a few hundred metres ( saw it on Crime Watch last night ) and totally dismembered his body.....................

What kinda rights allyuh think he should have...i.m.o. NONE.....death IMMEDIATELY......because if at age 18 you are this ignorant to the laws and try to bribe Gasparillo Police Station, we can only assume that everytime you do a crime you would pay your way out.......

I say since he took a life, he should give his in return............

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Re: HANGings (YAY or NEY)

Postby UltimateCustomizing » August 24th, 2010, 11:24 am

If necks start to pop for the petty crimes I am sure people/ bandits will think twice.[/quote]


Do you really think this is going to stop a criminal ?
What's the reason for him taking this path in life ?
IS it a easy means of living or is it a passion doing evil things ?

I agree certain scums need to be eliminated from the face of this earth but society needs to change otherwise popping a few heads will not change anything .

The government should start with the education sector because lack of education is what have us in this situation.
Education is not for everyone ( sad to say. but it is what it is .)
Last edited by UltimateCustomizing on August 31st, 2010, 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: HANGings (YAY or NEY)

Postby d spike » August 24th, 2010, 4:52 pm

janfar wrote:"If, God forbid, something has to happen (and an inmate is hanged) and there is some sort of mishap (while an inmate is being executed), or whatever it is, we don't want to have that at all," Rougier said during a telephone interview.

Yes, like the trapdoor not opening fully... ("Oh gorm, it still doing dat? Look, hoss, stop dat dam cryin', nutting ent happen tuh yuh... jus' jump up an' dong fuh mih nah... it bong tuh wuk dis rongs...")

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Re: HANGings (YAY or NEY)

Postby - Rovin's car audio - » August 30th, 2010, 11:08 am

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Cad ... 70878.html

Cadiz: Hanging not the way

Story Created: Aug 29, 2010 at 10:43 PM ECT

Story Updated: Aug 29, 2010 at 10:43 PM ECT

MINISTER of Trade and Industry, Stephen Cadiz, says he is not in support of the death penalty, as he does not see it as the proper way to fight the country's crime situation.

Family values and the rebuilding of the family unit, he said yesterday, was the only way to ensure our future generations do not engage in criminal activities.

Cadiz made the comment while speaking during a graduation ceremony hosted by the New Hope Prison Ministry, at 9th Avenue, Barataria.

A return to the hangman as a deterrent to rising crime has been championed by Works and Transport Minister Jack Warner since the People's Partnership took over governance of the country. In fact, Warner has since advised Attorney General Anand Ramlogan to take all steps to ensure the country can restart the process.

Speaking yesterday, however, Cadiz made it clear he was not in favour of a return to hanging.

"People speak about hanging, but I will tell you this, I am not a supporter,'' he said.

"We cannot hang our way out of this (crime) problem. We cannot shoot our way out of this problem. We cannot jail our way out of this problem. The only way this problem can be solved is if we rebuild the family unit.''

Cadiz became the second member of the current Government to vocally oppose the move.

Social activist Verna St Rose Greaves, who has been tipped as Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar's Special Adviser on Children's Affairs but is yet to be officially appointed, also voiced her opposition against it soon after Warner first raised the issue earlier this month.

However, other members of the Persad-Bissessar-led Government had either supported the call for varying reasons or did not voice their opinion on it openly.

Yesterday, Cadiz said parents needed to spend time with their children on a regular basis and "this is how we bring family values back''.

"Make sure your children are there with you at least once a week if they are not there already. Make sure that your neighbours are there. The one way to get rid of the evils of this country is for us to do it ourselves, and the only way that this can be achieved was by the families and neighbourhoods coming together for a better and safer country,'' he said.



u disappoint meh dey man - dem sickos out here only studying to rob & kill ppl so they cud eat ah food so what family values u gonna teach them when they kill innocent ppl .... :roll: :roll: :roll: .......it have to have some ultimate punishment for serious crimes rather than mind them criminals in jail til old age ....

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Re: HANGings (YAY or NEY)

Postby redmanjp » January 14th, 2011, 8:56 pm

well on d news dey just say day amending d capital offences Act to resume hangings- they also creating 3 degrees of murder

I agree wit hangings for the hardened criminals-they most likely can't change- but future generations can so social interventions are needed too

The government should start with the education sector because lack of education is what have us in this situation.
Education is not for everyone ( sad to say. but it is what it is .)


As far as education is concerned, Edu. Minister Gopeesingh said that ones of the main reasons that there are many failures at SEA for example is that thousands of children have undetected learning disabilities, thus he plans to introduce neurodiagnostic testing from an early age-3-5 yrs

the link between this & crime? in the prison population the rate of illiteracy & learning disabilities, and behavioural disorders is much higher than the general population

http://www.newsday.co.tt/politics/0,131968.html

Gopeesingh: Govt to introduce screening for disabilities

By RESHMA BAAL Sunday, December 5 2010

As part of the Government’s drive to re-organise the education system, the Ministry of Education will introduce mandatory screening for diagnosing disabilities in children between the ages of three and five, Minister of Education, Dr Tim Gopeesingh said yesterday.

He made the announcement at a ceremony to open Disabilities Awareness Week, at the Grace Community Complex, Lutchman Gardens in Cunupia.

Gopeesingh said his ministry’s drive for inclusive education for all, diagnoses of disabilities, and neuro-diagnosis testing, will start at the level of the Early Childhood and Care Education Centres (ECCE).

“With this, no child will be left out of main stream education due to special needs,” Gopeesingh said. He said the pilot project will take place “shortly”.

Gopeesingh said research that he has done in his six months in office, showed there was a large number of differently-abled children, between the ages of three and five, who were not diagnosed.

There are 34,000 children in this country between the ages of three and five, with17,000 births per year. Twenty percent of those children have some special need, be it behavioural, psychological, learning, dyslexia or autism,” said Gopeesingh.

He said the ministry has only ten schools which provide for children with special needs and ten private schools which are registered with the ministry, “which shows that only 2,000, out of 3,400 special children are schooled in this country,” the minister said.

He noted that there were also 150 ECCE centres in the country, which schooled approximately 9,000 children.

“What are the other children between the ages of three and five doing?” asked Gopeesingh.

He said some were sent to special nurseries, but thousands were left behind.

“I am going to ensure a private/public sector partnership which will allow for improvements in the infrastructure, and trained teachers, in these institutions. We are no longer going to accept leaving out over 25,000 children,” he said

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Re: HANGings (YAY or NEY)

Postby foss » January 14th, 2011, 8:57 pm

thanks eh!^ i was gonna have to search for it. :D

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Re: HANGings (YAY or NEY)

Postby K74T » January 14th, 2011, 9:14 pm

Just hang all dey mc

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Re: HANGings (YAY or NEY)

Postby foss » January 14th, 2011, 9:36 pm

Marsh_TT wrote:Just hang meh mc


:shock: werd dawg.

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Re: HANGings (YAY or NEY)

Postby ~Vēġó~ » January 14th, 2011, 9:44 pm

YAY!!!!!!!!

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Re: HANGings (YAY or NEY)

Postby ray_S.T.R.A_man » January 15th, 2011, 8:57 am

Although i believe in human rights persons who commit hideous uncivil acts against humanity shout be held accountable for there actions. Murderers and criminals should pay the ultimate price- there lives. Make it public so everyone can see what happens to criminals. >Public Executions >Crime don't pay.

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OVERCOMING HINDRANCES TO IMPLEMENTATION OF DEATH PENALTY

Postby ray_S.T.R.A_man » January 15th, 2011, 2:27 pm

OVERCOMING HINDRANCES TO IMPLEMENTATION OF DEATH PENALTY - A Constitution Amendment Bill
by Kamla Persad Bissessar on Friday, January 14, 2011 at 5:56pm

STATEMENT BY THE HONOURABLE PRIME MINISTER

ON

THE CONSTITUTION (AMENDMENT) (CAPITAL OFFENCES) BILL, 2011

IN

THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, JANUARY 2011





Introduction



It is axiomatic that crime is the nation’s number one concern and therefore this Government’s number one priority. Over the last seven months we have reviewed much of what former governments have done, we have looked long and hard at the multiple initiatives and assessed their failures and successes.



Our findings have informed the many initiatives undertaken by your People’s Partnership Government.



There is much yet to be done. In every tear shed by relatives of every murder victim, there is a desperate cry for justice. Mothers have lost their sons and daughters, children are left motherless and fatherless.



Homes left without incomes, families destroyed and forced into poverty and worse.



Mr. Speaker this government recognises that there are multiple causes of crime. We recognise that the war on crime cannot be won unless we use every weapon in our arsenal.



The present crisis caused by the escalation in criminal activity over the past 8 years is a multi-dimensional problem to which there is no single answer. A multi-faceted approach is therefore necessary if we are to protect law abiding citizens from harm and restore dignity and respect to the sanctity and value of human life.



RIGHT TO SECURITY AND ENJOYMENT OF PROPERTY



Section 4(a) of our Constitution guarantees to each and every citizen the fundamental human right to life, liberty, security of the person and enjoyment of property.



This basic and fundamental human right is under threat. The terrifying tsunami of crime has all but made a mockery of the State’s ability to guarantee this fundamental right to citizens over the past 10 years.



Our sons and daughters are no longer free to carry out their daily activities as they live in fear and feel threatened by the growing criminal element in our society.



The harsh reality is that anyone can become the next nameless robbery or murder statistic.



Innocent people have been forced to barricade themselves into their homes as they live in fear. It is my government’s responsibility to restore respect and honour to the constitution which is the supreme law of this land.



It is our duty to rescue and free this nation from the clutches and grip of the criminals that rob, rape, kidnap and murder our loved ones.



I refuse to let a small handful of devious criminals hold this nation to ransom whilst they savagely attack and brutalize our society.



This Government is committed to addressing frontally the challenge to fighting crime. We intend to retaliate with full force and strike back in the knowledge that the state has provided every opportunity and avenue for those who seek a new way of life and turn away from a life of crime.



Hundreds of billions of dollars have been spent on social and training programmes designed specifically for young men and women from all walks of life to facilitate their personal development and upward social mobility.



Education, including vocational training is free as our initiatives to make tertiary education accessible to everyone. There is therefore little or no excuse for choosing a life of violent crime.







MEASURES ALREADY TAKEN BY THE PEOPLE’S PARTNERSHIP



There are many aspects to the People’s Partnership multi-faceted crime plan. We are committed to detecting and solving crime and to this end have taken several measures in the short seven months that we have been in office. These measures include:

* The appointment of a new Commission of Police and two Deputy Commissioners of Police
* The review and restructuring of the Special Anti Crime Unit to redirect and focus its vast resources in the fight against crime on the ground.
* The restructuring and streamlining of our various security intelligence agencies to facility the proper gathering of criminal intelligence.
* The passage of the Interception of Communications Bill 2010 to prevent the continued misuse and abuse of the intercept abilities of the state that engaged in the interception of private communication of law abiding citizens.
* The introduction of the Anti-Gang Bill which specifically targets gangs and gang related criminal activities.
* The introduction of the Bail (Amendment) Bill, to deny bail to gang leaders and gang members and repeat offenders.
* Increase in several grants and benefits that are available to the less fortunate in our society.
* The creation of the Ministry of the People which is dedicated to providing relief to the poor and needy in our society.
* The increase of the minimum wage from $9 to $12.50 per hour
* Increase the old aged pension to $3000 per month
* Awarded a non-taxable special allowance of $1000 to all police officers.
* Provided every form 1 student with a lap-top.
* The introduction of the Anti-Corruption Bill
* The introduction of the Procurement legislation



NEW MEASURES



Very soon we intend to implement several further measures, including:

* New regulations for the prison service with special emphasis on the rehabilitative aspect of the prison system.
* The introduction of GPS technology in the police service and the outfitting of police vehicles with GPS transponders and tacking equipment.
* The introduction of high tech CCTV cameras in various crime hot-spots.
* The abolition of preliminary enquiries
* A comprehensive package of legislation directed at improving the pace of criminal justice
* The completion of the DNA lab
* The use of the internet in the fight against crime by the establishment of a virtual command centre and the use of text messaging.







VOTE FOR CHANGE



On May 24th 2010, the citizens of this Nation voted comprehensively for change, and change they must get. I have said elsewhere that 2011 is the year for delivery, delivery, delivery.



Mr Speaker murder is one of the most heinous crimes. The pain and trauma of the loss remain permanently scarred on families of the victims who are dispossessed of their loved ones. This is made worse by the fact that almost invariably, these families are denied justice. For them, the murderer, even when convicted is hardly ever made to pay for his crime.



Not this time. Unlike a former Prime Minister who boasted of knowing Mr. Big who was perpetrating bloodshed of our nationals but chose to do nothing about it, THIS IS ONE PRIME MINISTER PREPARED TO WALK THE TALK.



Mr. Speaker, the continued non-implementation of the death penalty is an issue of great public concern to the people of Trinidad and Tobago, and I daresay also the people of the region. I take this opportunity to make this statement on the status of the implementation of the death penalty so that the national community will be conscious of the status of this very significant matter.







THE LAW



Mr. Speaker, the death penalty is the punishment provided by law in Trinidad and Tobago. Section 4 of the Offences against the Person Act, Chap. 11:08, provides that “Every person convicted of murder shall suffer death”.



The question as to whether a Trial Judge has a discretion whether or not to impose a mandatory sentence of death upon any person found guilty of the crime of murder in this jurisdiction was finally settled by the landmark decision of the Privy Council in the case of Charles Matthew v. The State, Privy Council Appeal No. 12 of 2004.



Mr. Speaker, the Privy Council ruled that the imposition of the death penalty was in fact mandatory and constitutional, and not discretionary. So the law of the land is that if you are convicted of murder the Judge must impose a sentence of death; he has no discretion in the matter.



INCREASING MURDER RATE



The marked increase in the crime rate, especially the murder rate has led to a determined desire by the people of this country for the implementation of the death penalty.



This demand is premised on the belief that the frequency and ease with which murders are committed may be reduced by a clear demonstration that there are serious consequences for such disregard of the law and the lives of fellow human beings.

It is the duty of the State to employ every means at its disposal to treat with the wanton disregard of the law by criminals.

Mr. Speaker, during the period 1995 to 2001, the average murder rate per year was about 100 murders, except in 2001 when the figure reached 151. But in the following period 2002 to 2010, there was a dramatic increase in the murder rate. I would let the figures speak for themselves:

2002 - 172

2003 - 229

2004 – 261

2005 – 386

2006 – 371

2007 – 391

2008 – 547

2009 – 506

2010 – 472





DECLINE IN SERIOUS CRIME 2010



I am advised by the Commissioner of Police that the statistics for 2010 reveal a decrease in serious crimes of almost 20% as compared to 2009. whilst I am happy to say this was especially so in the latter half of 2010, and I welcome this with a sense of quiet hope and optimism, I see no cause for celebration as the murder rate continues to soar daily. An entire generation of father and motherless children has been created by the criminal elements in our society. 3335 persons have been murdered during the period 2002- 2010.



UNACCEPTABLE STATE OF AFFAIRS



This is an unacceptable and alarmed statistic for a country blessed with so many natural resources and with a mere population of less than 1.5 million people. What is particularly disturbing is the callous and casual manner in which the lives of some were taken.

What angers us even more is the gruesome nature of some of the murders against innocent women and young children. We cannot Mr. Speaker, allow this situation to continue. Indeed, we have tolerated it for too long and the change demanded by the population on May 24th calls for a radical and revolutionary vision and approach to our many inherited problems.

I intend to heed that desperate call, nay cry, for change. It is a cry for help as criminals have ruptured the very soul of this nation. To this end Mr. Speaker the People’s Partnership Government has decided to introduce a Bill to amend the constitution to facilitate the implementation of the death penalty.

We have incorporated into this Bill a previous law that was passed by this honourable House in 2000 whereby murders were categorized to strike a balance and appreciate the varied circumstances in which a murder can occur.



CATEGORIZATION OF MURDERS



We propose to treat with murder in three categories, and not to impose the death penalty in all cases of murder.

That Bill (The Offences against the Persons Bill) which sort to categorize murders was debated in this parliament on October 13th 2000. The Bill was unanimously passed without any amendments with the full support of the opposition. In outlining the PNM’s position, former Member of Parliament Mr. Fitzgerald Hinds said<span> “we on this side support any measure that is designed to bring some improvement to the law of murder as it now stands, and in principle, and in general terms, we support the amendments proposed to the Offences against the Persons Act. I thank you”.</span>

There was no real debate on this Bill because there was agreement by both parties that it was necessary and proper. That law was never however proclaimed. Some legal experts have expressed the view that such a law in any event requires a special majority and would be better housed in the constitution.



PNM SUPPORTS DEATH PENALTY



The Opposition has always publicly supported the enforcement of the death penalty however no real or meaningful steps to secure its implementation have ever been taken. The PNM in a press release dated May 9th 2007 congratulated then Prime Minister Manning for<span> “his insistence that he intends to enforce the death penalty (which has shown to be overwhelmingly supported by the people of Trinidad and Tobago)”.</span>

In an article carried in the Newsday newspaper published on Friday 11th May 2007 PNM PRO Jerry Narace criticized the Privy Council and stated that the party was in full support of the death penalty. Permit me to quote one sentence from that article which reads as follows:

<span>“Narace said that the death penalty was both the current law of the land and a measure which opinion polls have shown enjoy the overwhelming public support.”</span>

In the circumstances, Mr. Speaker, the Government anticipates the full and unconditional support of the Opposition in this matter. There is no room for partisan politics when it comes to the fight against crime. Responsible and matured leadership is needed to rescue our nation from this abyss of crime.



We proceed on the assumption that the PNM has not changed its position on this critical matter.



DEATH PENALTY NOT NEW LAW



Let me hasten to add that the death penalty was and remains the law of the land. This Bill does not introduce any new penalty that did not previously exist in our laws. It simply seeks to plug some of the loop holes that have been exploited and manipulated by murders who have been properly convicted and sentenced to death according to law.



The Government of the People’s Partnership is fully committed to the rule of law and to this end we will seek to give effect to the law of the land in relation to murders. However, the Government’s commitment to upholding the law has resulted in difficulties in implementing the death penalty, mainly because the convicted murderer has a constitutional right of appeal to the Court of Appeal and the Privy Council.



There is also a further right to petition the Inter-American Court of Human Rights and apply for Presidential pardon via the Mercy Committee. The systematic and endemic delays in this process makes it virtually impossible to implement the death penalty.



CATEGORIES OF MURDER



Mr. Speaker, the concept of categories of murder is common among many States in the United States. Most states allow capital punishment for first degree murder.

1. First Degree Murder: An intentional killing by means of poison, or by lying in wait, or by any other kind of willful, deliberate and premeditated action.

2. Second Degree Murder: Homicide committed by an individual engaged as a principal or an accomplice in the perpetration of a felony.

3. Third Degree Murder: Any other murder (e.g. when the intent was not to kill, but to harm the victim).

In Germany, murder is categorized into three groups:

detestable motive/reason of the criminal (life imprisonment)

detestable way of committing the crime (15 years)

detestable purpose/aim of the criminal (10 years).



In Australia, only Western Australia distinguishes between grades of murder. That State distinguishes between murder and willful murder, which requires proof of an intention to kill. The distinction affects penalty and parole periods.



In Canada, under section 229 of the Criminal Code, there are 2 categories of culpable murder. A conviction for murder carries a mandatory sentence of life imprisonment. In the case of first degree murder, there is no parole eligibility for 25 years. In the case of second degree murders (all murders which are not first degree) the period of parole ineligibility is anywhere from 10 to 25 years 9. All other murders are treated as manslaughter.





RESTORATIVE JUSTICE



The Trinidad and Tobago Prison Service is in high gear towards fostering a system of restorative justice that is focused on crime reduction through a process of training and treatment of prisoners.



The objectives of this new system would be the restoration and reintegration of prisoners back into society as whole, assisting them to become contributing members of their communities and thereby reducing the level of crime that is currently plaguing our society.



One of the measures through which these objectives would be accomplished is through the replacement of the existing Prison Rules which were made under the West Indian Prison Act, 1838 with an entirely new set of Prison Rules.



These new rules would seek not only to satisfy international standards on the treatment of prisoners but would also empower Prison Officers in a manner that would allow them to effectively manage the Prison Service and implement those systems that would bring about positive changes in the mindset and behaviour of the prisoners in their charge.



The new Prison Rules are currently receiving the active attention of the Ministry of Justice and are expected to be implemented within the near future.





JOHN STUART MILL’S SOCIAL THEORY



John Stuart Mill’s view on liberty is that the individual ought to be free to do as he wishes unless he harms others. Individuals are rational enough to make decisions about their good being and choose any religion they want to. But Government should interfere when it is for the protection of society. Mill explains,



“The sole end for which mankind are warranted, individually or collectively, in interfering with the liberty of action of any of their number, is self-protection. That the only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. … The only part of the conduct of anyone, for which he is amenable to society, is that which concerns others.”



OBJECTS OF THE BILL



The Constitution (Amendment) (Capital Offences) Bill, 2011 seeks to make provisions in relation to the implementation of the death penalty. Firstly, the Bill would include in the Constitution provisions for 3 categories of murder- murder 1, 2 and 3. We intend to restrict the mandatory imposition of the death sentence in relation to murder 1. These will include the killing of a member of the security force, a prison officer, and a judicial or legal officer acting in the performance of his duties; the murder of a witness or a juror, murders committed by a bomb, and contract murders.

But the Bill will also specify the circumstances in which the death sentence or life imprisonment may be imposed for murder 2 and the classification of murder 3 as involuntary homicide.



The categorization of murder would enshrine in the Constitution the provisions of the Offences Against the Person (Amendment) Act, 2000 (Act No. 90 of 2000), which has not yet been proclaimed.



This Act has not been proclaimed because it was not passed with a special majority and similar Jamaican legislation that retained the mandatory sentence of death for certain categories of murder, was struck down by the Privy Council in the case of Watson v R [2004] 4 LRC 811 on the grounds that the imposition of the death penalty is inhuman and degrading treatment.



Any new legislation relating to the implementation of the death penalty that is not protected by the savings clause of the Constitution or the Constitution itself is likely to be quashed without dissent by the Privy Council. These provisions therefore need to be included in the Constitution, which the supreme law of Trinidad and Tobago.



OVERCOMING HINDRANCES TO IMPLEMENTATION OF DEATH PENALTY



Secondly, the Bill would seek to overcome the hindrances to the implementation of the death penalty arising out of various Privy Council decisions, such as pre-trial delay, post-trial delay, legitimate expectation that the Mercy Committee would consider the findings of an international body and prison conditions.

The case of Pratt and Morgan v AG for Jamaica [1994] 2 AC 1) requires the death penalty to be executed within five years from the date of sentence.

In Thomas and Hilaire v Baptiste [1999] 2 LRC 733), the Privy Council upheld the right of condemned persons to access international bodies to which Trinidad and Tobago has subscribed, even if such bodies are unable or unwilling to deal with capital cases within a reasonable time so as to allow Trinidad and Tobago to comply with the deadlines laid down in Pratt and Morgan.

The case of Lewis v AG for Jamaica [2000] 5 LRC 253) has opened the door for potential challenges to the proceedings of the Mercy Committee by specifying that a condemned person must be notified that the Mercy Committee will be meeting to consider his case, be given all information that the Mercy Committee will consider and be invited to make written representation to the Committee. The case of Lewis cited above also suggested that deplorable prison conditions might be such as to aggravate the punishment of the death sentence so as to amount to inhuman and degrading treatment.





THE CONSTITUTION (AMENDMENT) BILL, 1998



Mr. Speaker, when the UNC Government sought to address the murder rate in September 1998 by seeking to amend the Constitution to prevent delays in implementing the death penalty, the Opposition refused to support the measure and voted against the Bill (13 Members on that side).



Mr. Speaker this is not a time for political games. This is a time for action in the interests of the Nation and our citizens.



The success or failure of the passage of this legislation lies squarely on all of us and particularly those of the Opposition since the measures require a 3/5 majority in this House and a 2/3 majority in the Upper House.



I urge the Nation to pay close attention to what happens with this Bill.



This measure does not remove the right of any accused person to explore all avenues for appeal and justice. This is unlike the case of Glen Ashby who was hanged even while his appeal was pending.



We must all rise and join hands to conquer the demon of crime. We must send a loud and clear message that the rule of law is alive and well in Trinidad and Tobago.



This law will send a powerful message to those that are intent on wreaking havoc in our society and destroying innocent lives that we have united and are ready to confront them.



The People’s Partnership is committed to restoring law and order in this country and those who do not intend to respect the laws of this land shall feel the full weight of this law and pay the ultimate price.



We must act now before it is too late and I am not afraid to lead this charge against the enemy in the name of the rule of law, justice and law and order.



Mr. Speaker, I thank you.

A good Read

CRITICALLY DISCUSS
meaning evaluate the pros and cons of the above topic

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Re: OVERCOMING HINDRANCES TO IMPLEMENTATION OF DEATH PENALTY

Postby - Rovin's car audio - » January 15th, 2011, 2:34 pm

too much ting to read : can we get a summarized version ...

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Re: OVERCOMING HINDRANCES TO IMPLEMENTATION OF DEATH PENALTY

Postby zcarz » January 15th, 2011, 4:23 pm

straight! hang those who disagree

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Re: OVERCOMING HINDRANCES TO IMPLEMENTATION OF DEATH PENALTY

Postby zcarz » January 15th, 2011, 4:45 pm

(...Rovin...) wrote:too much ting to read : can we get a summarized version ...

yes:
Hanging is necessary.

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Re: OVERCOMING HINDRANCES TO IMPLEMENTATION OF DEATH PENALTY

Postby mitsuboi » January 15th, 2011, 4:52 pm

yes but

'PNM not ready to support bill'
Rowley: Sympathy for killers at Privy Council
By Anna Ramdass anna.ramdass@trinidadexpress.com

Story Created: Jan 14, 2011 at 11:48 PM ECT

(Story Updated: Jan 14, 2011 at 11:48 PM ECT )

Opposition Leader Dr Keith Rowley says the Opposition will make a decision as to whether it supports legislation for the death penalty after it is reviewed.

He made the comment after Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar said Government will bring new legislation to enforce the death penalty for certain categories of murder at yesterday's sitting of Parliament.

"We have had no reason to change our position on that matter. This has come as a surprise to us, the Prime Minister has pronged this as part of the crime fighting initiative. Clearly, the Government is of the view that criminals will respond to it, I think it is an admission that the criminals have not feared the coming of the UNC Government and all its threats and so on," Rowley told the media during the tea break.

He said the Opposition has not had the opportunity to look at the bill and will comment further after it does so.

"Suffice it to say, that the problem has not really been an absence of the law, it has been the operations of the courts because if you maintain the death penalty and you still have to go to the Privy Council, where all manner of appeals are available and sympathy, in a way that there is an inherent objection at the Privy Council in terms of the death penalty," Rowley said.

"Changing it to a new law does not automatically bring about the kinds of results the Prime Minister talked about so we have to see what the changes are."

Rowley also took the opportunity to criticise the Government on its failure to curb crime.

"The Government has come into office with no crime plan that is different to anything that was going on before. What we have are new managers managing what was there before, clearly it's not making any difference. It was what the previous government was doing that this Government is continuing with, a little tinker here and a little tinker there. What is shows and proves is that criminals, whoever they are, have no regard for who is occupying the seat of government," he said.

He advised that in the crime fight, more district police should be put in place and they should be given the responsibility to account for their districts.

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/_PN ... 80369.html

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Re: OVERCOMING HINDRANCES TO IMPLEMENTATION OF DEATH PENALTY

Postby jm3 » January 15th, 2011, 4:56 pm

even if this is enacted the problem is the laws inability to apprehend and prosecute the people that break the law,
that is why the murder rate is increasing because those that have chosen that lifestyle know that it is unlikely that they will be caught and if they are caught the judiciary system is slow, inefficient and corrupt so they would get off with little penalty. just watch after they do this the manslaughter rate will increase as murder falls.

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Re: OVERCOMING HINDRANCES TO IMPLEMENTATION OF DEATH PENALTY

Postby zcarz » January 15th, 2011, 5:08 pm

we need public castrations as well

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Re: HANGings (YAY or NEY)

Postby zcarz » January 16th, 2011, 3:20 am

they don't even need that, all they need to do is contract moses charles every weekend to come and buggerise the whole prisoner population and then they go realise why you shouldn't kill people

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Re: OVERCOMING HINDRANCES TO IMPLEMENTATION OF DEATH PENALTY

Postby ray_S.T.R.A_man » January 16th, 2011, 10:08 am

Death Penalty Debate Revived
By Peter Richards

PORT OF SPAIN, Jul 20, 2010 (IPS) - Faced with a steep escalation of the murder rate since it came to power on May 24, the new People’s Partnership government in Trinidad and Tobago is considering resuming capital punishment as a means of dealing with the situation.

Prime Minister Kamla Persad Bissessar and senior members of her cabinet have already indicated that they are not averse to resuming capital punishment, which was last carried out here in 1999.

The new administration vowed in its first 120-day plan in office to initiate an anti-crime strategy that would cut the country’s high murder rate, with the first phase of the plan running from June to December.

In fact, Austin Jack Warner, a senior minister, said that Attorney General Anand Ramlogan had been asked to make a presentation to the cabinet on the issue.

"I have told the Attorney General that he must tell us what are some of the things we must do so as to free ourselves from these international organisations which try to frustrate the law of the land," said Warner, who was heading the government while the Prime Minister was abroad earlier this month.

"I am convinced that were we to reinstitute hangings, which is the law of the land, it will have a dent on crime. I am convinced," he said.

Former Prisons Commissioner Cipriani Baptiste agrees that the death penalty should be enforced. But, he argues that murders should be classified in order to differentiate crimes of passion from premeditated murders.

You cannot prevent murder when a person, in a fit of passion, murders someone while trying to protect himself or his family, Baptiste says. "But there are those people who sit and plot to go into people’s homes and murder them; these are the crimes that should be punishable by death, and this is why we need classification," he told a local newspaper.

But not everyone is convinced.

President of the Law Association of Trinidad and Tobago Martin Daly in his newspaper column said it is simplistic, wrong and misleading for anyone to say that the law calls for the death penalty for convicted killers.

"It is true that the Offences Against The Person Act simply provides that ‘every person convicted of murder shall suffer death’. However, as a result of judicial decisions the law cannot be carried out simply following an instruction by a Prime Minister to an Attorney General such as the ‘instruction’ Minister Jack Warner purported to give when acting as Prime Minister," he wrote.

The London-based Privy Council - the nation’s highest court - has placed restrictions on the carrying out of the death penalty. "The Privy Council has plainly stated that its judicial decisions, which can be properly described as restrictions on carrying out the death penalty, can be reversed. But that the means to do so is by amendment of the Constitution," Daly said.

The Special Advisor on Children’s Affairs to the Prime Minister, Verna St. Rose-Greaves, has publicly stated her opposition to the resumption of hangings here.

"I am not going to change my opinion on this. Nor am I prepared to be silent on it," she said, adding, "we cannot say that we are moving forward as a nation but then we go back to barbaric practices like hangings… I understand the pain of victims and their families, I do, and the anger from that is what is fuelling this bloodlust, but the death penalty is not a solution," she said on a radio programme.

Scholar, author and social activist Dr. Merle Hodge has said that no government in this country has ever encouraged a proper airing of the death penalty issue and is calling on politicians to stop "giving us the ‘hanging will curb crime’ story".

"We, the people frightened out of our wits by violent crime, latch on to this one solution that we have never really looked in the eye. We haven’t been allowed to. Hanging is very useful to politicians as they can use it to cynically whip up support at any time… We need a period of sober, level-headed and informed discussion among citizens on all issues of such gravity as the death penalty," Hodge said.

The country’s last execution was carried out in 1999 when Anthony Briggs was sent to the gallows for the murder of a taxi driver in 1992.

A month before Briggs execution, nine people - including the reputed drug lord, Dole Chadee - went to the gallows for killing a family.

"It is inconceivable to have 295 [convicts] on death row awaiting the hangman when of course no one is trying to apply the law," Warner said, adding that, "the law says death by hangings. And if a person is convicted and has of course used all his measures of relief up to the Privy Council, why should he stay in the prison anymore?"

So far this year, 292 people have been murdered here. In 2009, the figure stood at nearly 600.

However, despite those statistics, the Catholic Commission for Social Justice (CCSJ) is calling on the new government to devise an anti-crime plan that does not include hanging.

"We can find no conclusive proof that the death penalty is a deterrent that reduces crime rates," said CCSJ Chairperson Leela Ramdeen. "In Trinidad and Tobago human life seems to be losing its value. Violence pervades the very fabric of our society," she said, adding that the CCSJ, "welcomes this opportunity for a new national dialogue in Trinidad and Tobago about how we deal with crime and violence, how we restore respect for law and life, how we protect and rebuild communities, and how we help offenders to redeem themselves."

The Trinidad and Tobago Humanist Society (TTHS) says that there is no country in the world where the death penalty has been proven to reduce crime.

"One notable comparison is between Canada, where the death penalty was abolished in 1976, and the U.S., where it was reinstated that same year after a ten-year moratorium. American homicide rates rose after the 1976 reinstatement, while Canadian homicide rates declined after its abolition," the TTHS said. "Warner’s statement is yet another example of politicians pursuing policy which is not based on either proof or principle."

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Re: OVERCOMING HINDRANCES TO IMPLEMENTATION OF DEATH PENALTY

Postby CS3A_GLX » January 17th, 2011, 9:46 am

an eye for AN EYE! death shud befall those that sin greatly! shud have hired iraqi heads of security instead!

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