The Religion Discussion

[illumin@ti]

ah hadda read dat home..... ah might die or get fired if ah read dat here in meh office

[AlliDr]

^^I would like to know how they came up with an exact number like 11,013 BC as the date for creation.........did they use maths & science?

[AlliDr]

http://articles.sfgate.com/2010-01-01/b ... me-camping

Harold Camping lets out a hearty chuckle when he considers the people who believe the world will end in 2012.
"That date has not one stitch of biblical authority," Camping says from the Oakland office where he runs Family Radio, an evangelical station that reaches listeners around the world. "It's like a fairy tale." The real date for the end of times, he says, is in 2011.

And apparently he has made such claims before

This is not the first time Camping has made a bold prediction about Judgment Day. On Sept. 6, 1994, dozens of Camping's believers gathered inside Alameda's Veterans Memorial Building to await the return of Christ, an event Camping had promised for two years. Followers dressed children in their Sunday best and held Bibles open-faced toward heaven.

But the world did not end.Camping allowed that he may have made a mathematical error. He spent the next decade running new calculations, as well as overseeing a media company that has grown significantly in size and reach.

Meaning in numbers
By Camping's understanding, the Bible was dictated by God and every word and number carries a spiritual significance. He noticed that particular numbers appeared in the Bible at the same time particular themes are discussed.

The number 5, Camping concluded, equals "atonement." Ten is "completeness." Seventeen means "heaven." Camping patiently explained how he reached his conclusion for May 21, 2011.

"Christ hung on the cross April 1, 33 A.D.," he began. "Now go to April 1 of 2011 A.D., and that's 1,978 years."

Camping then multiplied 1,978 by 365.2422 days - the number of days in each solar year, not to be confused with a calendar year.

Next, Camping noted that April 1 to May 21 encompasses 51 days. Add 51 to the sum of previous multiplication total, and it equals 722,500.

Camping realized that (5 x 10 x 17) x (5 x 10 x 17) = 722,500.

Or put into words: (Atonement x Completeness x Heaven), squared.

"Five times 10 times 17 is telling you a story," Camping said. "It's the story from the time Christ made payment for your sins until you're completely saved.

And talk about blind faith,

Rick LaCasse, who attended the September 1994 service in Alameda, said that 15 years later, his faith in Camping has only strengthened.

"Evidently, he was wrong," LaCasse allowed, "but this time it is going to happen. There was some doubt last time, but we didn't have any proofs. This time we do."
Would his opinion of Camping change if May 21, 2011, ended without incident?
"I can't even think like that," LaCasse said. "Everything is too positive right now. There's too little time to think like that."

[d spike]

Forgive me for sounding biased and intolerant...




...but that sounds like...




...codswallop!


How could you possibly believe in God, and that God created the world... and then think He will just take the good folk and flush everything else down the tubes?
Despite the frightened bewailings of megadoc, God is logical. He would have had a plan for His creation. There is some glorious plan in the mind of God that all this fits into... Every aspect of the world's major religion points to this accepted truth.

For someone to believe that God will come down and rescue His boys, is another way of saying that God will give up with His plan for all this. "Yuh see dis t'ing? It eh wukkin'. We go have tuh scrap it. Tell de boys an' dem dat we go pick dem up in ah timin'..."

So God made all this, just to blow it up? He is Calvin, from Calvin and Hobbes? Please...

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ "Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness."

Religions have built themselves on trafficking the hope that we are not alone, that there is an immanent God looking over us; the hope that those who follow good will be rewarded and those who follow evil will perish; hope that there is justice or karma; hope that one day mankind will be rescued from this existence where things can and do go wrong.

There is another concept, not at all contradictory: "Hope is for the weak" - Most people do no want to struggle with uncertainty, so they use hope to deal with it. They are afraid of the fact that there may be nothing after death or that this life is all and everything, so they use hope to deal with it. They find hope in what religion teaches them. The weaker their mind and the more they're are afraid, the more hope they need, so they start becoming addicts and fanatics of this hope.

"Denial is the most predictable of all human responses."

"But we already know what you're going to do, don't we? Already I can see the chain reaction, the chemical precursors that signal the onset of emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic, and reason. An emotion that is already blinding you from the simple, and obvious truth:"

seems familiar? logical?

[QG]

^ QG I can't answer directly for anyone but I can tell you that I have heard numerous accounts of Hindus and Muslims saying they have witnessed miracles in their lives, better lives, sick relatives being healed after praying and fasting and sacrificing in their religion.

Cool Scene!

I understand

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ so what's your thoughts on the May 21st 2011 Rapture?

^ QG I can't answer directly for anyone but I can tell you that I have heard numerous accounts of Hindus and Muslims saying they have witnessed miracles in their lives, better lives, sick relatives being healed after praying and fasting and sacrificing in their religion.

Cool Scene!

I understand

If people en masse, didn't feel fulfilled, experience great things, miracles, better lives through whichever religion they followed, they would switch, eventually leaving some religious groups with few if any members.

People do feel these things in each and every major religion and they each swear their religion is the truth. Who is to say otherwise?

[megadoc1]

because I was real hungry and left inconvenienced and at that time those people only cared about serving their god

man done say he was inconvenienced, and then he saying he wasn't
but isn't that inconvenience ? I called it what it is, the problem here is that you thought I was bothered by it you said I felt inconvenienced but I never mentioned any feelings other than hunger

ammmm, you expressed the feeling that you were inconvenienced, that is a NEGATIVE feeling.I did not express a feeling other than hunger

The second NEGATIVE part is that you accused the people of not caring for other people
I was making reference to smash's posts

The third NEGATIVE part is that you condemn their religion by stating "their God" as if they do not serve the real God but rather some false god.
thats my beliefs, do you have a problem with my belief?
anyways I am glad that you understand that it is not the people I am against
its the god

If you had respected their religion you would have said "those people only cared about serving God", which as I remember you said is more important than serving man (in this case, you). You specifically (subconsciously or not) showed that their activity was not actually serving who you consider to be God. thank you

so like I said you are a bigot and a hypocrite lol... you still trying to justify that statement? it is ok pal call me what you want I heard better

on another note you said

for all who think I have a problem with Muslims this is the first time in 10 YEARS that I haven't celebrated Eid with my friends most of whom are Muslims some are even here on these forums ,none of them can agree with what you guys say about me I guarantee that
lol...how you all think I know to go there for food?

So you eat halal food which is contains meat from an animal that has been slaughtered and the blood drained while saying this is for food in the name of Allah. Above you stated that Allah is "their God" not "the God" or your God. Allah does not view Jesus as God. Also earlier in this thread you claimed that you cast out demons from people and the demons were named Kali and Buddha. So you also see the gods of other religions as being "demons" that possess unsaved people. Why then are you eating food that was prepared in the name of a false God or in the name of a demon? Isn't this hypocrisy?
well according to my bible no!

1 Corinthians 8
Food Sacrificed to Idols
1Now about food sacrificed to idols: We know that we all possess knowledge.[a] Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. 2The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know. 3But the man who loves God is known by God.

4So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but one. 5For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"), 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

7But not everyone knows this. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat such food they think of it as having been sacrificed to an idol, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. 8But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.

9Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 10For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this knowledge eating in an idol's temple, won't he be emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols? 11So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall.

nice question duane Keep it up

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ masters on self consolation

doesn't change the fact that you said

because I was real hungry and left inconvenienced and at that time those people only cared about serving their god

nice question because you had a direct answer this time?

how is it these idols and false Gods are "nothing at all in the world" yet you have to use the power of God to cast them out as demons from humans?

also you didnt answer my question about how you feel about the May 21st 2011 rapture claim.

[megadoc1]

^ masters on self consolation well actually my lord speak above everything (thats my beliefs eh)

doesn't change the fact that you said

because I was real hungry and left inconvenienced and at that time those people only cared about serving their god

i never denied saying that, I called it what it is but I never mentioned it as a feeling, I said left not felt

nice question because you had a direct answer this time?
yes a very clear one

how is it these idols and false Gods are "nothing at all in the world" yet you have to use the power of God to cast them out as demons from humans?
the idols are nothing it is the demons behind them that are dangerous to the souls of mankind, they only aim to deceive man that his soul be lost and destroyed but the power of God thru Jesus, is the only weapon against them
it is the only authority on earth that they bow to and submit themselves to and they obey us when we tell them get out! in Jesus' name

also you didnt answer my question about how you feel about the May 21st 2011 rapture claim.

Forgive me for sounding biased and intolerant...

...but that sounds like...
...codswallop! whatever that word means and then some take it easy d spike

Jesus told me that no man know the hour when he is coming
he also told me that he will come like a thief (his choice of words)
he said that things must come to pass before his coming and most haven't started yet
and we have
Gog and Magog Ezekiel 38-39 I believe thats when Russia and the nation of Islam(who I believe is the anti christ) shall rise up to destroy Israel but
Jesus steps in and shows them who is God(the boss) and it will take months to bury their dead(thats my beliefs the Muslims believe something different on that ) but go look it up draw your conclusions

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

you said you "left inconvenienced" which means as far as you are concerned your were inconvenienced.
or are you trying to believe that being inconvenienced is not "feeling" inconvenienced.

Jesus told me that no man know the hour when he is coming
he also told me that he will come like a thief (his choice of words)
he said that things must come to pass before his coming and most haven't started yet
and we have
Gog and Magog Ezekiel 38-39 I believe thats when Russia and the nation of Islam(who I believe is the anti christ) shall rise up to destroy Israel but
Jesus steps in and shows them who is God(the boss) and it will take months to bury their dead(thats my beliefs the Muslims believe something different on that ) but go look it up draw your conclusions

So the scriptures they quote they are translating it or reading it wrong to arrive at that date? Did you listen to the MP3? It talks exactly about the "thief in the night".
How do you decide who's translation of the scripture you should follow since you seem to reject their translation and the translations by the Vatican.

Also what makes you believe that Islam is the anti-christ?
Who else believes this? and why?

[megadoc1]

you said you "left inconvenienced" which means as far as you are concerned your were inconvenienced.nope I put it according to smash's post's on deeds
or are you trying to believe that being inconvenienced is not "feeling" inconvenienced.
SMH

Jesus told me that no man know the hour when he is coming
he also told me that he will come like a thief (his choice of words)
he said that things must come to pass before his coming and most haven't started yet
and we have
Gog and Magog Ezekiel 38-39 I believe thats when Russia and the nation of Islam(who I believe is the anti christ) shall rise up to destroy Israel but
Jesus steps in and shows them who is God(the boss) and it will take months to bury their dead(thats my beliefs the Muslims believe something different on that ) but go look it up draw your conclusions

So the scriptures they quote they are translating it or reading it wrong to arrive at that date? Did you listen to the MP3? It talks exactly about the "thief in the night".
How do you decide who's translation of the scripture you should follow since you seem to reject their translation and the translations by the Vatican.

Jesus made some promises here why not take him up on it and see for yourself

John 14: 21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22Judas(not Iscariot) saith unto him, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.



do you remember what I said about reading the bible without the Holy spirit?
it is not the first time people set dates
check out hw Armstrong he died in 1986 and we are in 2010

Also what makes you believe that Islam is the anti-christ?
Who else believes this? and why? do some research for now whenever I am back on a proper/stable connection we will go into that

[d spike]

End time talk nonsense...

Millions of arrogant, haranguing, narrow-minded, self-righteous, prejudiced people transported into space, away from here, all in an instant? Millions, you say.
Wow. Sounds like paradise. Can't wait.

That rapture crap (as you so inelegantly, but correctly, put it) was just another of their inventions over time to increase the flow of tithe-bearing laity to their crusade tents. If you look back, you will see a flood of "revelations", all made up by them to galvanise instant belief, repentance, conversion... (put something in the plate please)
All this started when society began to consider it unseemly to hit people in the head with a sword to make them believe what you believe...

The ending of the world was computed... (the fateful day came... and went)

The amount of people who could enter heaven (144,000) was proclaimed, and there was a rush to "be on the winning side"... (and then they added up all "their" believers who were "saved" worldwide... and the sum was far more than 144,000... so they stopped talking about that, too...)

I was hoping they would come up with something new of late to counteract all this 2012... but they seem satisfied with the panic as probably many are fleeing to their tents once more... coffers filling again...

end-time talk nonsense. They claim to follow the Christ, but they don't listen to a word he said. "No one knows the hour..." he said - unless he forgot to mention that he had let it slip to the Mayans.

[Alpha_2nr]

"Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness."

Matrix + Smith yuh say dere?

But didn't he say human "emotion", not human "delusion"?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ delusion

[QG]

^ so what's your thoughts on the May 21st 2011 Rapture?

^ QG I can't answer directly for anyone but I can tell you that I have heard numerous accounts of Hindus and Muslims saying they have witnessed miracles in their lives, better lives, sick relatives being healed after praying and fasting and sacrificing in their religion.

Cool Scene!

I understand

If people en masse, didn't feel fulfilled, experience great things, miracles, better lives through whichever religion they followed, they would switch, eventually leaving some religious groups with few if any members.

People do feel these things in each and every major religion and they each swear their religion is the truth. Who is to say otherwise?

You make sense there! If anyone has not felt or experience any such miracles, they would have really left their Religion.

To answer you with that Rapture, that is false!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture
Even in that link if you scroll down, someone predicted the Rapture on October 28th, 1992.
Jesus will come in an undated time!! Meaning that he can come at any day, any hour, any year that he Chooses.
Many people has WRONGLY Prophetised his date of returing! And we need to be careful because the Bible warns us about these False people.

Duane meh boi, if Christians really knew the exact date and time of Jesus second coming, many people (Christians mostly) WILL SIN FOR SPITE and on the week before the date, they would want to pretend to act all Godly and MANY will burn for it!
So that DATE is False!

[QG]

Also what makes you believe that Islam is the anti-christ?
Who else believes this? and why?

Ahhh, Great Question to ask!!!!!!!
Revolations speak of the Anti-Christ as being a person, not a class or group of persons!
Jehovah witness believes that everything that is against Christ is Anti-Christ (Dis-regarding what was said in Revalatons) and Book of Revalations says otherwise...who would we believe, The Written Scriptures or them?

I am not saying Megadoc1 is wrong, maybe the Ant-Christ can be a Muslim person, a Hindu person or even from Russia! But the Anti-Christ will pose as a good person for the first 3 1/2 years to fool and recruit people to join his cause...and he will be evil for the last 3 1/2 years!! He will have 7 years to Reign on Earth!!
(From Book of Revolations).
The Rapture starts at the age/reign of the Anti-Christ, saving all of God's people and leaving those behind who do not believe in Christ! (Written in Bible...not my own words!).

[mamoo_pagal]

Also what makes you believe that Islam is the anti-christ?
Who else believes this? and why?

Ahhh, Great Question to ask!!!!!!!
Revolations speak of the Anti-Christ as being a person, not a class or group of persons!
Jehovah witness believes that everything that is against Christ is Anti-Christ (Dis-regarding what was said in Revalatons) and Book of Revalations says otherwise...who would we believe, The Written Scriptures or them?

I am not saying Megadoc1 is wrong, maybe the Ant-Christ can be a Muslim person, a Hindu person or even from Russia! But the Anti-Christ will pose as a good person for the first 3 1/2 years to fool and recruit people to join his cause...and he will be evil for the last 3 1/2 years!! He will have 7 years to Reign on Earth!!
(From Book of Revolations).
The Rapture starts at the age/reign of the Anti-Christ, saving all of God's people and leaving those behind who do not believe in Christ! (Written in Bible...not my own words!).

Yes it can be a Christian, buddhist frankly any "person" posing under some institution. Wile people focusing on a human form to be the anti-christ how about a little abstract thinking.
What about the concept of the co-operation by law that is considered a "person", and this entity is slowly trying gain a hold on all the resources on the earth ect. at the same time removing the rights from people who deserve what the earth gives them.
For example: In Bolivia the "person" that owned all the water including rain water, hence, it was against the law for citizens to even collect rain water!!!
What about in india where "persons" patent seeds, hence, trying to stop the poor farmers from growing crops they have grown for centuries, all in the name of profit. Causing mass starvation!!!!
And the list goes on and on..............for example "persons" are trying to patent DNA.
This concept of the "person" if one really wants to see what evil is and how it is becoming a force that is stripping the rights of humans and re-introducing a new form of slavery/oppression on a mass scale. Come on.............
While the book of revelations say that.........that was 16th century or whatever age thinking it was written. No offence to any group!!
Those who preach the "anti-christ" to come from any specific religious group or country is using this to justify their religious beliefs. This is one of the concepts that was used to commit some of the most horrid crimes againts humanity!!!!

[AlliDr]

For example: In Bolivia the "person" that owned all the water including rain water, hence, it was against the law for citizens to even collect rain water!!!

Mamoo, right here in T&T WASA owns the rights to all water (above ground and up to something like 6ft below ground), rainwater included. So even if you don't have a WASA connection, but collect rainwater, use from a river or stream etc., you are still required by law to pay water rate (although this is not rigidly enforced). These rights even extend to private bottle water companies (who bottle locally), where it is the responsibility of WASA to ensure that they supply safe drinking water to the public.

[MG Man]

apropos
I just like sayin that
and sometimes I lke to say axolotl

[Devis11]

I have been asked by several people why i believe in God...and my answer is always the same put him to the test. I was in the hospital with my son with dengue and the doctors told me that we have to stay probably four more days because our platelets count was low. I prayed this prayer:
"Jesus i believe in you....but why am i in this situation?...please if you are real then let me and my son get discharge tomorrow morning....i need a miracle right now"

to cut a long story short the next morning me and my son were discharged at the same time and we were in separate wards.

An you telling ME that God is a fallacy? Prove him then....nothing ridiculous...MG man (Kevin) i challenge you to say to God: make me so ill that i will need a miracle to be healed and then i will believe....

you'd never say that would you?

and i can give more examples in MY LIFE why he is real...just ask

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” - Epicurus

Why is it that all the things that god does for ppl is things that had a chance of naturally happening anyway? why is it that god never does any real miracles, grow back a lost limb, just one.
why would he care for protecting you but ignore all the starving kids in africa who constantly beg him for a half decent meal?

GOD is much better spelt backwards. I know my dog is real and makes sense, and offers me more friendship and happiness than the idea of god ever did.

[toyo682]

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” - Epicurus

Many assume that because evil still exists today, God has not dealt with it. How can atheists assume that God has not already solved the problem of evil in such a way that neither His goodness nor omnipotence is limited? On what grounds do they limit what God can and cannot do to solve the problem? God has already solved the problem of evil. And He did it in a way in which He did not contradict His nature or the nature of man. We assume God will solve the problem of evil in one single act. But why can’t He deal with evil in a progressive way? Can’t He deal with it throughout time as we know it, and then bring it to the climax on the Day of Judgment?

God sent His Son to die on the cross in order to solve the problem of evil. Christ atoned for evil and secured the eventual removal of all evil from the earth. One day evil will be quarantined in one spot called "hell." Then there will be a perfect world devoid of all evil. If God declared that all evil would, at this moment, cease to exist, you and I and all of humanity would go up in a puff of smoke. Divine judgment demands that sin be punished.-Ron Meade

[d spike]

Mamoo, right here in T&T WASA owns the rights to all water (above ground and up to something like 6ft below ground), rainwater included. So even if you don't have a WASA connection, but collect rainwater, use from a river or stream etc., you are still required by law to pay water rate (although this is not rigidly enforced).

Not really, lad. The government has "mineral rights", that includes ground water, and that is the water that concerns WASA. So, once water hits the ground, that's "WASA's own".
Thus, any form of ground-water (well, river, spring) cannot be legally used without their "say-so" (along with rate-paying). One interesting exception is well-water used exclusively for agricultural purposes - and that includes one household
Rain-water, once it doesn't touch the soil, or the earth's surface in any way (as in a concreted collector at ground level) is free of rates. You will be told different by low-level WASA staff, who don't know any better - and don't want to admit it

Also what makes you believe that Islam is the anti-christ?
Who else believes this? and why?

Ahhh, Great Question to ask!!!!!!!
Revolations speak of the Anti-Christ as being a person, not a class or group of persons!

An unbiased study of St. John's apocalyptic work of Revelations can show that it was Emperor Domitian that John was referring to as the "anti-Christ".

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” - Epicurus

Many assume that because evil still exists today, God has not dealt with it. How can atheists assume that God has not already solved the problem of evil in such a way that neither His goodness nor omnipotence is limited? On what grounds do they limit what God can and cannot do to solve the problem? God has already solved the problem of evil. And He did it in a way in which He did not contradict His nature or the nature of man. We assume God will solve the problem of evil in one single act. But why can’t He deal with evil in a progressive way? Can’t He deal with it throughout time as we know it, and then bring it to the climax on the Day of Judgment?

God sent His Son to die on the cross in order to solve the problem of evil. Christ atoned for evil and secured the eventual removal of all evil from the earth. One day evil will be quarantined in one spot called "hell." Then there will be a perfect world devoid of all evil. If God declared that all evil would, at this moment, cease to exist, you and I and all of humanity would go up in a puff of smoke. Divine judgment demands that sin be punished.-Ron Meade

Ron Meade wrote that for people who have blind faith.

How is God dealing with evil in a progressive way when the world seems to be getting more and more evil everyday?
Why would God, in making evil cease to exist, make all humanity go up in a puff of smoke, instead of simply removing all evil from our hearts at this moment? This would preserve all of humanity, and strike out all evil.

Is illogical thinking a prerequisite of blind faith?

Ron Meade, like megadoc1 and Toyo seem bent on proving to smart people that God is irrational.

[toyo682]

Ron Meade wrote that for people who have blind faith.
I don't consider my faith blind, as I have said before my faith has been proven by my experiences, but I know you will say I don't have proof, sorry I was not thinking to take a picture of a demon while he was being expelled to prove to you he exist and that my experience happened.
How is God dealing with evil in a progressive way when the world seems to be getting more and more evil everyday?Not the world but people, because they continue to reject God. You seem to think that evil is out there. We each contribute to the evil in the world in some way, myself included.
Why would God, in making evil cease to exist, make all humanity go up in a puff of smoke, instead of simply removing all evil from our hearts at this moment? This would preserve all of humanity, and strike out all evil. That would also mean that God would have to take away free will. Or are you saying that God put sin into man to begin with and the introduction of sin into the world was of God and not man?
Is illogical thinking a prerequisite of blind faith? Until you understand all of who God is you would not understand what we speak of. You see God as only being loving. Maybe because it helps you to deal with your sin without actually turning away from it, because you seem to believe that God loves you so much he will simply over look your sin.

Ron Meade, like megadoc1 and Toyo seem bent on proving to smart people that God is irrational. You seem to want to prove he is more loving than he is holy or just or righteous which are all attributes of God. Are you saying that because you love your child you would not punish them. If we are called to love as you say in a rational way, that God should over look sin, then should we not do the same when our laws are broken. Once again I ask are we more moral than God. [/quote]

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ each comment there contradicts the one above it.
There is a demon that was in you that you expelled, and then you say evil is not out there but in each of us.

Removing evil from our hearts has nothing to do with removing free will. I can teach my child to be good and still give him free will do do as he/she pleases. Their deeds will be good ones once thought properly.

You said God created everything, including the demon?
So God is not all love?

If it is true that religion is man made then God is no more moral than we are!

[Kasey]

Ron Meade wrote that for people who have blind faith.
I don't consider my faith blind, as I have said before my faith has been proven by my experiences, but I know you will say I don't have proof, sorry I was not thinking to take a picture of a demon while he was being expelled to prove to you he exist and that my experience happened.I saw something similar, but it was in a temple, with a pundit. He was able to put out the 'demon'. Do you now have faith in the Hindu religion now?
How is God dealing with evil in a progressive way when the world seems to be getting more and more evil everyday?Not the world but people, because they continue to reject God. You seem to think that evil is out there. We each contribute to the evil in the world in some way, myself included.So whats ur point please? Arent ppl getting more and more evil? How is being progressivly dealt with?
Why would God, in making evil cease to exist, make all humanity go up in a puff of smoke, instead of simply removing all evil from our hearts at this moment? This would preserve all of humanity, and strike out all evil. That would also mean that God would have to take away free will. Or are you saying that God put sin into man to begin with and the introduction of sin into the world was of God and not man?
Is illogical thinking a prerequisite of blind faith? Until you understand all of who God is you would not understand what we speak of. You see God as only being loving. Maybe because it helps you to deal with your sin without actually turning away from it, because you seem to believe that God loves you so much he will simply over look your sin."Until you understand all of who God is "??? U serious?? U understand god?? God not so complicated then?

Ron Meade, like megadoc1 and Toyo seem bent on proving to smart people that God is irrational. You seem to want to prove he is more loving than he is holy or just or righteous which are all attributes of God. Are you saying that because you love your child you would not punish them. If we are called to love as you say in a rational way, that God should over look sin, then should we not do the same when our laws are broken. Once again I ask are we more moral than God.

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Just when I thought that megaduck was the only brainless person in here....

[AlliDr]

Rain-water, once it doesn't touch the soil, or the earth's surface in any way (as in a concreted collector at ground level) is free of rates. You will be told different by low-level WASA staff, who don't know any better - and don't want to admit it

That was my error, sorry for not clarifying this very important condition, quite right d spike.

But i was once told, even if there is a standpipe within the vicinity (can't remember what the exact distance was) of a residence, that does not have a water connection - this is still grounds to pay water rate - might have been by one of those low-level staffers

Anyway, i do believe i have strayed from the tread topic, please carry on gentlemen.......

All Hail the Holy Zaboca

[mamoo_pagal]

Rain-water, once it doesn't touch the soil, or the earth's surface in any way (as in a concreted collector at ground level) is free of rates. You will be told different by low-level WASA staff, who don't know any better - and don't want to admit it

That was my error, sorry for not clarifying this very important condition, quite right d spike.

But i was once told, even if there is a standpipe within the vicinity (can't remember what the exact distance was) of a residence, that does not have a water connection - this is still grounds to pay water rate - might have been by one of those low-level staffers

interesting stuff........but the examples I gave was to just show the entity of the co-orperation that has leagal rights of a "person" and how they are taking away the rights of ppl and the opression taking place. In Bolivia it was not the Government who owned the business it was a private enterpise from america I think. But these ppl were not even able to collect rain water in mid air!!!
Ppl continue to preach hate and ignorace to other groups by various methods of social programming that exist and the fundamentalism shown here in this thread is a typical example. The sad thing is the number of youths/children go around spewing the same garbage..........
Ppl look down on the muslims, Hindus, Buddhist's ect (talikng about things they never even try to understand, just believe informal convo's with other ignorant creatins). But none looks at the growing institutions that operate without moral/ethical values that cause mass suffering/hunger/dehumanization ect.......
The legal co-operation "person" is a very dangerous entity. When you consider the whole concept of the anti-christ and it being a "person". It is very narrow minded to equate it to a person of a certain ethinc/religious/national group. This is the type of thinking that lead to slavery ect......
Mamoo out.......can't believe I wastin time here

[QG]

Mamoo, right here in T&T WASA owns the rights to all water (above ground and up to something like 6ft below ground), rainwater included. So even if you don't have a WASA connection, but collect rainwater, use from a river or stream etc., you are still required by law to pay water rate (although this is not rigidly enforced).

Not really, lad. The government has "mineral rights", that includes ground water, and that is the water that concerns WASA. So, once water hits the ground, that's "WASA's own".
Thus, any form of ground-water (well, river, spring) cannot be legally used without their "say-so" (along with rate-paying). One interesting exception is well-water used exclusively for agricultural purposes - and that includes one household
Rain-water, once it doesn't touch the soil, or the earth's surface in any way (as in a concreted collector at ground level) is free of rates. You will be told different by low-level WASA staff, who don't know any better - and don't want to admit it

Also what makes you believe that Islam is the anti-christ?
Who else believes this? and why?

Ahhh, Great Question to ask!!!!!!!
Revolations speak of the Anti-Christ as being a person, not a class or group of persons!

An unbiased study of St. John's apocalyptic work of Revelations can show that it was Emperor Domitian that John was referring to as the "anti-Christ".

Okay cool man!