The Religion Discussion

[d spike]

I was just curious to hear a non-fundamentalist Christian point of view, because there is the risk of giving free reign to sin if you follow such teachings.

Quite right. Many errant teachings that sprung up in the last few centuries have been the cause of hysterical laughter in many a class. Another one worthy of a few chuckles is the "doctrine of Pre-destination". Some folks actually believed that your fate is laid out already before your attempt at living. Why then, did these folks worship so industriously? It wouldn't change matters now, would it? Live life as merrily as you could, and accept your previously determined fate.

[sMASH]

i was like 'whaa aa a t???' when i read that toyo said that paul condoned fornication. while trying to figure out where he got that from, i started to read that mega jumped in to support him.

if u cant keep in in ur pants, let it out under the shackles of marriage.

that concept for accommodating one's sexual desire is recommended in islam as well.


is just that i was trying to get out. they guy and the smallie tried to resist temptation; he did so when he first saw her, did so at the church gatherings, did so at the residential service. so they resisted temptation many times. she was always a church girl, he came back into it after a while. they believed in jesus christ as lord and savior all the time, she always lived like that and he restarted.
so they make a slip. are they goin to be eternally punished for that time they did it or will they be forgiven, even though they knew what they were doing, did sin and did not repent, albeit more hormones than any thing?



but the one about the plantation owner. the fact that he knew non-whites as not human was because of how he was nurtured. they see non whites as a variation of monkeys, like gorillas and and orangutan or a baboon.
as i said, they were good nice folk. paid their tithes every sunday, gave money to the local skool ( this was back in like 1723 or sumting), was nice and caring to their children; really down-to-earth christian folk from like alabama or sumwhere. but the thing is, they did not know that non whites were also humans, they grew up believing that they were a type of monkey, and so treated them as such. what goin to happen to them?


is like this, if some one grew up with domestic violence as the norm, they most likely would think that is the normal way to conduct affairs.
the plantation owner treats their neighbor as he would like to be treated, believes that jesus is lord, gives to the poor and needy, sees to the welfare as much as they can afford of the skool children. but they did not think that other races were also their neighbor. if they did then they would have, but they not too bright and their day-to-day tasks occupy their time, so intellectual consideration of what beings could be called 'man' and what were not did not take place. they did as they knew.

would the plantation owners be granted eternal heaven for all the christian things they did in christian ways, or eternal damnation for treating their animals like animals. the plantation owners' sins were more along the lines of not investigating the bible, not applying their intellect to figure out that some of thier animals were actually people. they believed in jesus as their lord and savior(astagfirallah) but were caught up in living that they listened to the parson, and read the bible did not really considered what was the message. they did not realize that the slaves were people.

they made a mistake borne of lack of investigation and contemplation.

is the eternal part that bothers me. is either u go to heaven or to hell, and both are eternal. but the fact of the matter is that there are many gray areas, where people believe in god and make mistakes, but some mistakes are not as easily forgiven and some are but a purposely done.

another scenario is that of the woman in church who gossips. her only major infraction is her gossiping. it is a little sin, but not repented for each time, and continuously.

one scenario is with a slip made by young persons who resisted temptation and triumphed many times but the time they failed, they were not able to repent.

the other scenario is with some one doing grievous sin, but unknowingly so.
a mistake from not thinking about things more deeply and doing what their christian parents an neighbors did.

the last one was a small sin, but consistently repeated.

besides those one little things they each have, they were the best of teh best. they sinned and did not repent, some not even thinking that what they were doing was wrong.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ I dont think they will appreciate your logical thinking.
Who bred those hormones in humans anyway?

I have some unanswered questions too!

Toyo and megadoc1, is the account of Noah and the Flood precisely accurate in the bible?
and I know you have jumped around this question before, but I figure page 200 is a good place to resurrect it (no pun intended): How old is the earth according to calculations made from biblical accounts and/or how old do you think the earth is?

[toyo682]

The message you preach here about Islam and the Islam we see in the middle east are two different religions my friend.

Fixed before people have a nervous break down.

[sMASH]

oh, in this bout we have not established that christianty has flaws. if no answer can be easily made, then the only flaw is that it is vague in some points and all major religions can be accused of that.

the point of eternally goin to hell for a small sin or slip, and granted entry to heaven even though great sins were committed, is not so ideal.

the convict could actually be honest in thier repentance and acceptance of jesus as lord, and could be very well on their way to heaven for that, but others have done so but continued to sin after, with no repentance, some knowingly, some unknowingly, some a small sin, some big sins, some repeatedly sinning, and some fighting and winning, but losing only one time. all this is after acceptance of jesus as lord and savior(astigfirallah) and living a life as most would regard overall faultless and christian.

[toyo682]

Lacking comprehension and education as D spike has pointed out, smash can you clarify what you meant so that I can answer your question

do the go to heaven for believing in christ or do they go to hell for repeatedly indulging their lust till satisfaction?

when I read repeatedly indulging their lust, what came to mind was the words of Jesus, if you look at a woman with lust you have committed adultery in your heart. So were you saying that these young people repeatedly lusted after each other, and thus fell into sin, though they knew lust is a sin. Or were they trying to resist their lust, but eventually slipped, which is it? Can you clarify for me as I lack comprehension.

Oh and I was being sarcastic about the Paul fornication thing in case you missed that...

thanks

[toyo682]

oh, in this bout we have not established that christianty has flaws. if no answer can be easily made, then the only flaw is that it is vague in some points and all major religions can be accused of that.

the point of eternally goin to hell for a small sin or slip, and granted entry to heaven even though great sins were committed, is not so ideal.

the convict could actually be honest in thier repentance and acceptance of jesus as lord, and could be very well on their way to heaven for that, but others have done so but continued to sin after, with no repentance, some knowingly, some unknowingly, some a small sin, some big sins, some repeatedly sinning, and some fighting and winning, but losing only one time. all this is after acceptance of jesus as lord and savior(astigfirallah) and living a life as most would regard overall faultless and christian.

Is this how God sees sin? In his eyes are there big sins and small sins, or is that a concept derived from man's morality. When last was someone arrested and imprison for lying, yet one of the commands or laws of God listed in Exodus 20 is that you should not bear false witness. In the eyes of man however, this is a small sin, of course it is not as bad as murder or rape, in our eyes that is. As I have said before, all sin is essentially one thing, rebellion to God. Secondly as I have said to repent does not merely mean to feel sorrow or remorse but to turn away from, so to say that someone has repented yet continues to sin means either one of two things, they are not genuine in their repentance, or they are being controlled by a demon in that area of their life. In many cases the expelling of the demon, brings liberation from the sin, I have experienced this in my own life. Sometimes it may mean that we simply need to have some self control if we are true about repenting. However if we truly repentant we should turn away from the sin.

[sMASH]

but they did not repent whether it be for time, behavior or lack of knowledge.

repeatedly indulging, different view point. one person could say they indulged the fantasies every now and then, and another could say that they resisted temptation in knowledge of the scripture, the reason why the man gone back to church is because he felt that lust was wrong and wanted to be free of that. having been goin to church when younger, he resolved to become a better person and resume his attendance and seek control over his carnal urges.

they tried to resist and did resist many times, so they over came the temptation on those occasions. but one time they slipped.

they were attracted to each other, but were also practicing christians especially the girl and the fellah had a good two months stretch before the girl come back home from vacation by family,

keep in mind, these situations are make belief and arbitrary, but representative of real world occurrences.

saying they had demons is a cop out and most likely wrong because most of them were more or less going to church all their lives and if not for those specific things, carried out everything perfectly christian.


i can under stand a convict goin to heaven for accepting jesus christ as lord and savior(but do not agree that it would be that simple) as he would be granted forgiveness.
i can understand if they fornicator, the ignorant and the compulsive gossiper go to heaven because they did every thing else well apart from not repenting of those sins( but that would meant that as long as u saved u could do what ever u want, u saved already so it matters not from that point on live like u want)
what i cannot understand is if the go to hell for those things they as they did not repent. one did not know that he was sinning, the other knew but thought it was minor as it was not made an issue, another over came it many times before but slipped this one time.
what if they go to hell eternally for the fornication, the abuse of their brother/ neighbor , or the gossiping? the emphasis is on the eternally part.
if they go to serve time for the small aspect of their lives concerned with sinning.. the fornicator man only did it one time, and he did go back to church to try to overcome it, the plantation owner only beat the people and housed them in pens because he thought they were animals,, because he never thought past his daily chores and, and the gossiper always had company to further her actions, and not many instances of admonishment. it was easy for her to do it and she was encouraged both passively and actively, by her own flock.
if they go to hell i could understand that, but i cannot understand if it was eternal, even when they did so many christian things.

[megadoc1]

i was like 'whaa aa a t???' when i read that toyo said that paul condoned fornication. while trying to figure out where he got that from, i started to read that mega jumped in to support him. it seems like you jumped on something the same way mega did

if u cant keep in in ur pants, let it out under the shackles of marriage.

that concept for accommodating one's sexual desire is recommended in islam as well.


is just that i was trying to get out. they guy and the smallie tried to resist temptation; he did so when he first saw her, did so at the church gatherings, did so at the residential service. so they resisted temptation many times. well in this case obviously the guy have a problem and the bible teaches us to flee fornication,so if he knows he is weak in that area he should seek to aviod being alone with her If he values Jesus over sin and doesn't want to end up in a compromise position(resist the devil draw nearer to God)she was always a church girl, he came back into it after a while.not because you are a church person means that you know Jesus but if that is the case she too will seek to avoid compromise if she desires Jesus over sin also Christians are supposed to be led by God so it all comes down to who we are listening tothey believed in jesus christ as lord and savior all the time, she always lived like that and he restarted.then if the person seeks to follow after God she will be careful not to put herself in a compromised position
so they make a slip. are they goin to be eternally punished for that time they did it or will they be forgiven,they received the forgiveness for that and every other sin from day one when they accepted Jesus
now its a matter of how much they value what he have done for them even though they knew what they were doing, did sin and did not repent, albeit more hormones than any thing?
its a matter of how much they value what he have done for them



but the one about the plantation owner. the fact that he knew non-whites as not human was because of how he was nurtured. they see non whites as a variation of monkeys, like gorillas and and orangutan or a baboon.hold up hold up serving Jesus and believing man came from monkeys cannot work together if he is a servant of Jesus
he will know that God created man and the bible teaches how to treat a servant and how the servant should serve his master


as i said, they were good nice folk. paid their tithes every sunday, gave money to the local skool ( this was back in like 1723 or sumting), was nice and caring to their children; really down-to-earth christian folk from like alabama or sumwhere. but the thing is, they did not know that non whites were also humans, they grew up believing that they were a type of monkey, and so treated them as such. what goin to happen to them? then clearly he did not know Jesus
he does not know love

is like this, if some one grew up with domestic violence as the norm, they most likely would think that is the normal way to conduct affairs.but if he knows Jesus and love him he will take his yoke upon him and learn from him and he will love and domestic violence is not love
the plantation owner treats their neighbor ah ha now if he read the bible Jesus explained who is thy neighbor as he would like to be treated, believes that jesus is lord, gives to the poor and needy, sees to the welfare as much as they can afford of the skool children. but they did not think that other races were also their neighbor. then clearly he was not following the word of Godif they did then they would have, but they not too bright and their day-to-day tasks occupy their time, so intellectual consideration of what beings could be called 'man' and what were not did not take place. they did as they knew.
yuh see you asked questions based on your belief in your religion but in Christianity
the holy spirit lives in us and its up to us to listen to him with that said the holy spirit would not
allow us to treat another human that way and it have nothing to do what we think
it is either we listen or not if you are not being led by the spirit
that what you posted will be the results

would the plantation owners be granted eternal heaven for all the christian things they did in christian ways, or eternal damnation for treating their animals like animals. the plantation owners' sins were more along the lines of not investigating the bible, not applying their intellect to figure out that some of thier animals were actually people. they believed in jesus as their lord and savior(astagfirallah) but were caught up in living that they listened to the parson, and read the bible did not really considered what was the message. they did not realize that the slaves were people.good so they were led by a man and not the spirit
for as many that are led by the spirit of God ,those are the sons of God

they made a mistake borne of lack of investigation and contemplation.
more like how much they wanted to know God

is the eternal part that bothers me. is either u go to heaven or to hell, and both are eternal. but the fact of the matter is that there are many gray areas, where people believe in god and make mistakes, but some mistakes are not as easily forgiven and some are but a purposely done.
understand this when someone receives Jesus they receive forgiveness for every sin committed in their life the issue now is how much you value God's saving grace and if you gonna allow him to lead your life

another scenario is that of the woman in church who gossips. her only major infraction is her gossiping. it is a little sin, but not repented for each time, and continuously.
then there maybe no relationship with God

one scenario is with a slip made by young persons who resisted temptation and triumphed many times but the time they failed, they were not able to repent.
it is a matter of how much they valued Jesus


the other scenario is with some one doing grievous sin, but unknowingly so.
a mistake from not thinking about things more deeply and doing what their christian parents an neighbors did. tradition over Christ

the last one was a small sin, but consistently repeated. no relationship

besides those one little things they each have, they were the best of teh best. they sinned and did not repent, some not even thinking that what they were doing was wrong.

sMASH on Friday I went to el socorro to buy Chinese food opposite the mosque and there was no parking available but i manage to squeeze in a corner and while waiting for my food I realized that all the parking was taken up by Muslims who went to pray ,now tell me based on your belief in deeds, should a Muslim be inconsiderate to others just so he can pray to his god? is that considered a good deed or a bad deed because I was real hungry and left inconvenienced and at that time those people only cared about serving their god they knew fully well that they would
be an inconvenience to others but simply did not care
please tell me what you think

[d spike]

...is the eternal part that bothers me. is either u go to heaven or to hell, and both are eternal. but the fact of the matter is that there are many gray areas, where people believe in god and make mistakes, but some mistakes are not as easily forgiven and some are but a purposely done.

I know only the basics of Islam, as my focus always was elsewhere, so please tell me if I am wrong about this statement:
Don't Muslims believe that their concept of hell is a temporary place of punishment for some, eternal for others? Sinful believers who go to hell, will eventually be removed after suffering for a while and taken to heaven, and those who reject God will remain there eternally?

I always thought that was a remarkable belief, as it mirrors a similar belief of early Christians, as well as Jews and Messianics, that God will show mercy to worthy sinners after death.
The Jews have a tradition of praying for their dead, so that the souls would be freed from their painful state of purification, and sooner sent on their journey to God.
One biblical reference to this was in the deutercanonical "Second book of the Maccabees", where we are told that the prayers for the dead help free them from sin.
Luther didn't care for this book, as he was trying to stop the sale of "instant" prayers for the dead (called "indulgences"), so this was one of the books he tossed into the refuse pile, refusing to accept it as "inspired" writings.

Early Christians also prayed for the dead. One inscription from A.D. 190 says: "Abercius by name, I am a disciple of the chaste shepherd...He taught me…faithful writings...These words, I, Abercius, standing by, ordered to be inscribed. In truth, I was in the course of my seventy-second year. Let him who understands and believes this pray for Abercius."

Origen, in A.D. 244, and Tertullian, in A.D. 210 both wrote about, and strongly recommended praying for the dead.
In an apocryphal story called "The Acts of Paul and Thecla", written in A.D. 160, a character is asked to pray for a dead person, so that the deceased may be "transferred to the place of the just".

There are actually parts of the New Testament that reflect this ancient belief shared by early Christians that there is forgiveness beyond the grave - bearing in mind that Christians believe once you end up in hell, you stay there.
In St. Matthew's Gospel, Jesus says, “And anyone who says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but no one who speaks against the Holy Spirit will be forgiven either in this world or in the next.” Jesus' words clearly shows that there is forgiveness after death. The phrase “in the next” (from the Greek “en to mellonti”) generally refers to the afterlife. Why specify a lack of "forgiveness" for certain sins there? Unless forgiveness is offered there for others, one must suppose.
In St. Luke's Gospel, Jesus speaks figuratively about the final judgment, saying when the Master comes (at the end of time), some will receive light or heavy beatings but they will live. This state is not heaven or hell, because in heaven there is no punishment, and in hell no one will be "living with the Master".
In Paul's first letter to the Corinthians, Paul mentions people being baptized on behalf of the dead, in the context of atoning for their sins (people are baptized on the dead’s behalf so the dead can be raised). These dead people cannot be in heaven because they are still with sin, but they also cannot be in hell because then their sins could no longer be atoned for.
In Paul's second letter to Timothy, Onesiphorus is dead but Paul asks for mercy on him.
In Hebrews, the spirits of just men who died in godliness are "made" perfect.

Of course, the Catholics go to town on this belief that worthy sinners can be cleansed after death, making them pure to enter heaven, even giving it a name coined in the eleventh or twelfth century, Purgatory.
The Eastern Church, while it agrees with the concept of a state of cleansing for the soul after death, doesn't agree on the concept of an actual laundry.
While good old Luther tossed out the concept of "Purgatory", the Lutheran Church does see the need to pray for the dead.
On the other hand, while present-day Methodists don't believe in any such thing, John Wesley, the founder of Methodism, believed in an intermediate state between death and the final judgment and in the possibility of "continuing to grow in holiness there".

So, Smash, I think that there is a part of the Big Man's design, that will be able to assist those that strive to do what is right. For we all are human and not perfect.
Christianity teaches that God accepts the human condition, and whatever efforts on our part are made, are sanctified and made perfect by him.
Fundamentalists won't approve of anything I have said here, but that won't change the fact that these things were said and done long before the originators of their tithe-collecting institutions got the brainwave to strike out on their own, in order to stop Daddy from hogging all the business.

Cheers

[sMASH]

mega, u eh unnarzstan what i comin wit,,, sit dis one out, toyo and qg handling it well so far.

u are correct, every one should be more considerate of how their actions impact on others. but u are dealing with people and people are generally selfish in that they seek to see their own needs be fulfilled. probably u could have been more considerate and left that one hour that one day for them, as they would leave the other hours of the other days for u to get ur dimsum.



hmmmn, what say ye, bro's. do people only go to heaven or hell, or both (... one after the other to atone for their misdeeds)? i not asking what is right and wrong, i not asking u to post scripture, i asking what are ur personal interpretations? what do u think ur scripture tell u?

because mega say that the gift already paid for, u just have to receive it. so the people sin and before they could repent they died. what happens next...

more or less u have it there spike. the bad looking part is where the people goin an stay in hell for ever, as we are told about he hypocrites and the unbelievers.

[d spike]

the bad looking part is where the people goin an stay in hell for ever, as we are told about he hypocrites and the unbelievers.

It is a sad (even terrifying) aspect... but from the Christian view, it seems that hell was created for the "devil and his angels" - not humans. So it wasn't His plan to send folks there. However, if some prefer to spend their lives choosing self over love, turning inwards instead of embracing and sharing everything that He offers us, then what is He to do at the end of our time here? Drag us kicking and screaming to the ultimate place of love? To spend eternity in the presence of Him who offered us all that we had refused?
Rather, he would then allow us to go be with that we have always loved: ourselves.
Imagine the pain of a cricket-lover who becomes paralyzed... or a chocolate-lover whose body becomes horribly allergic to the stuff... the ultimate pain of hell is not being able to spend eternity with that which we were created for, coupled with the complete knowledge that we brought it upon ourselves, yet would always refuse to change the focus of our existence.

Hence the realization that there must be some sort of state of purification where the soul can go to be cleansed, while on its journey to God - for, despite all the immature rantings presented here, God is logical. So those who generally make the right attempt, will eventually get there.

The Catholics made a big fuss about it, even suggesting that it is a place, like one big laundry, but praying for the dead is not a "Catholic" thing, as I pointed out earlier. I am not sure about their portrayal of it, however, making it out to be some sort of 'mini-hell', for if you realise where you are when you get there, then you bloody well know that you will end up upstairs - you just have to wait in line outside the store in the sun and rain, waiting for it to open and let you in. Perhaps suffering will be part of the cleansing process, but it would be tempered by the secure knowledge that you are "on your way".

We are told in St. Peter's letter that Jesus preached to the souls of those who had died. They couldn't have been in heaven - no need for preaching there - and those in hell wouldn't be going anywhere, so preaching would be useless there as well. Thus we know that there could very well be existences beyond this life other than heaven and hell.

Cheers

[QG]

the bad looking part is where the people goin an stay in hell for ever, as we are told about he hypocrites and the unbelievers.

It is a sad (even terrifying) aspect... but from the Christian view, it seems that hell was created for the "devil and his angels" - not humans. So it wasn't His plan to send folks there. However, if some prefer to spend their lives choosing self over love, turning inwards instead of embracing and sharing everything that He offers us.......

Spike meh boi, this must be one the bestthings I heard from you; you practically hit the nail on the Head in terms of what God of the Bible did.
Hell was never created for man, but since man got caught up in their wickedness, greed, lust, power hungry, sinful selves...God sent them to be with the Devil! Because God cannot allow sin to enter Heaven!!!!

[QG]

I have a puzzling question to ask you Muslim tuners.

This is not meant to disrepect anyone...but I am curious, has Allah ever done anything great in your lives that you can bear witness to others, the good he has done?

Any other person of different Religion can answer as well (Not Christians though), just want to hear from someone's else perspectives.

Thanks in Advance

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ QG I can't answer directly for anyone but I can tell you that I have heard numerous accounts of Hindus and Muslims saying they have witnessed miracles in their lives, better lives, sick relatives being healed after praying and fasting and sacrificing in their religion.

"Out of sight, out of mind" - you may be surrounded by Christians who bear witness everyday and not be in touch with millions more people of other religions all over the world who also claim to bear witness to the greatness of their God.

The same feeling you have in your heart that their miracles are not real, the same way they feel yours are not real and theirs are.

Is this how God sees sin? In his eyes are there big sins and small sins, or is that a concept derived from man's morality. When last was someone arrested and imprison for lying, yet one of the commands or laws of God listed in Exodus 20 is that you should not bear false witness. In the eyes of man however, this is a small sin, of course it is not as bad as murder or rape, in our eyes that is. As I have said before, all sin is essentially one thing, rebellion to God.

so you are saying that in God's eyes Hitler or someone who rapes and murders children are no different from someone who says "the sky is green"? A murderer no different from a liar?

Why do you make God out to be such an insecure, jealous, irrational being?

Secondly as I have said to repent does not merely mean to feel sorrow or remorse but to turn away from, so to say that someone has repented yet continues to sin means either one of two things, they are not genuine in their repentance, or they are being controlled by a demon in that area of their life. In many cases the expelling of the demon, brings liberation from the sin, I have experienced this in my own life. Sometimes it may mean that we simply need to have some self control if we are true about repenting. However if we truly repentant we should turn away from the sin.

Here we go with the demon talk again... so who cast out this demon for you?

[megadoc1]

mega, u eh unnarzstan what i comin wit,,, sit dis one out, toyo and qg handling it well so far. c'mon doh try that nah man

u are correct, every one should be more considerate of how their actions impact on others. but u are dealing with people and people are generally selfish in that they seek to see their own needs be fulfilled. probably u could have been more considerate and left that one hour that one day for them, as they would leave the other hours of the other days for u to get ur dimsum.
so don't eat at a certain Chinese food place on a friday so that I wont be inconvenienced by a muslim going to pray
who don't care about other people anyways .... right right I hear yuh



hmmmn, what say ye, bro's. do people only go to heaven or hell, or both (... one after the other to atone for their misdeeds)? i not asking what is right and wrong, i not asking u to post scripture, i asking what are ur personal interpretations? what do u think ur scripture tell u?
rev 20
11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

hmmm.... it seems they wont be in hell forever but they will be destroyed together with hell and death


because mega say that the gift already paid for, u just have to receive it. so the people sin and before they could repent they died. what happens next...
I believe that sin does not directly affect our salvation, because thats what Jesus came to save us from ...duh? it affects our relationship with christ and thats what matters most therefore according to your scenario it only involved people who don't have a working relationship with Jesus, I say this because anyone having a working relationship with christ would not find them self in the compromised position that you described, Jesus requires us to count the cost of following him, that is to choose him over everything else in our lives which even includes our feelings (even holding on to past hurts affects our relationship with Jesus )
when I sin I break relationship with Jesus when I repent it restores my relationship with him,that
relationship is what is important,now i believe that If I fall into temptation and sin against God,I don't think he is quick to blot my name out of the book of life but if I die and my name is written there, you do the maths but not because I know my father loves me so much means that I should take those chances..............so again it all comes down to how much the Christian values Jesus

more or less u have it there spike. the bad looking part is where the people goin an stay in hell for ever, as we are told about he hypocrites and the unbelievers.
...based on revelation hell and death will be thrown into the lake of fire and those whose names are not in the lambs book of life will be thrown in there too

[megadoc1]

Is this how God sees sin? In his eyes are there big sins and small sins, or is that a concept derived from man's morality. When last was someone arrested and imprison for lying, yet one of the commands or laws of God listed in Exodus 20 is that you should not bear false witness. In the eyes of man however, this is a small sin, of course it is not as bad as murder or rape, in our eyes that is. As I have said before, all sin is essentially one thing, rebellion to God.

so you are saying that in God's eyes Hitler or someone who rapes and murders children are no different from someone who says "the sky is green"? A murderer no different from a liar?
well according to God's standards which is most important than ours

Why do you make God out to be such an insecure, jealous, irrational being?
so why cant you see HIM as a perfect being ?
and that we have to live according to him and not the other way around
and we are given choice to choose to live his way or ours he just tells us up front
what are his ways

[mamoo_pagal]

mega, u eh unnarzstan what i comin wit,,, sit dis one out, toyo and qg handling it well so far. c'mon doh try that nah man

u are correct, every one should be more considerate of how their actions impact on others. but u are dealing with people and people are generally selfish in that they seek to see their own needs be fulfilled. probably u could have been more considerate and left that one hour that one day for them, as they would leave the other hours of the other days for u to get ur dimsum.
so don't eat at a certain Chinese food place on a friday so that I wont be inconvenienced by a muslim going to pray
who don't care about other people anyways .... right right I hear yuh

mdoc dude this statement speaks of ur ignorance........sorry "bias" for itslef. It is disturbing someone who speaks of being so self realized makes such a statement and even more frightening there are ppl out there who follows ur teachings!!!!
Really didn't want to get involved in dis.............but I can see how Gandhi will be punished for trying to make peace and you won't for ur "biased" thinking...........right right I hear yuh
btw I am not a muslim I am just not "biased"

[megadoc1]

mega, u eh unnarzstan what i comin wit,,, sit dis one out, toyo and qg handling it well so far. c'mon doh try that nah man


sMASH on Friday I went to el socorro to buy Chinese food opposite the mosque and there was no parking available but i manage to squeeze in a corner and while waiting for my food I realized that all the parking was taken up by Muslims who went to pray ,now tell me based on your belief in deeds, should a Muslim be inconsiderate to others just so he can pray to his god? is that considered a good deed or a bad deed because I was real hungry and left inconvenienced and at that time those people only cared about serving their god they knew fully well that they would
be an inconvenience to others but simply did not care
please tell me what you think


u are correct, every one should be more considerate of how their actions impact on others. but u are dealing with people and people are generally selfish in that they seek to see their own needs be fulfilled. probably u could have been more considerate and left that one hour that one day for them, as they would leave the other hours of the other days for u to get ur dimsum.
so don't eat at a certain Chinese food place on a friday so that I wont be inconvenienced by a muslim going to pray
who don't care about other people anyways .... right right I hear yuh

mdoc dude this statement speaks of ur ignorance........sorry "bias" for itslef. It is disturbing someone who speaks of being so self realized makes such a statement and even more frightening there are ppl out there who follows ur teachings!!!!
my teachings? breds get ur facts right
Really didn't want to get involved in dis.............but I can see how Gandhi will be punished for trying to make peace and you won't for ur "biased" thinking...........right right I hear yuh
btw I am not a muslim I am just not "biased" doh worry take a look again and see,
then try to read smash's posts concerning good deeds who knows maybe you will see why I made that statement
the man is basically suggesting that I don't eat at my favorite Chinese restaurant on that day at that hour because muslims have to pray and it is clear that they are not considering
who needs to use the carpark(small deed) I am just agreeing with him

[mamoo_pagal]

how do you know if each person that occupied a park was muslim??
do you know if they have an agreement with the owner of the store??
Is this the first time it has happened, where people praying used the parking space??
Does the owner of the establishment have a problem with it?
If he does, did he put up a sign ect. to notify to them?

[megadoc1]

how do you know if each person that occupied a park was muslim??
I was there and saw with my own eyes when they entered their cars and left
do you know if they have an agreement with the owner of the store??
Is this the first time it has happened, where people praying used the parking space??
Does the owner of the establishment have a problem with it?
If he does, did he put up a sign ect. to notify to them? for all the other questions they are not my business I was just a hungry person going to by food

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

so why cant you see HIM as a perfect being ?
and that we have to live according to him and not the other way around

I do see him as being perfect, YOU are the one who keeps saying he is irrational, narcissistic, jealous and vengeful

and we are given choice to choose to live his way or ours he just tells us up front
what are his ways

and for the 4 millionth time, what evidence is there to say that YOUR idea of "his way" is the actual concept of "his way"?

You yourself are being intolerant and biased, so what makes you right?

[mamoo_pagal]

how do you know if each person that occupied a park was muslim??
I was there and saw with my own eyes when they entered their cars and left
do you know if they have an agreement with the owner of the store??
Is this the first time it has happened, where people praying used the parking space??
Does the owner of the establishment have a problem with it?
If he does, did he put up a sign ect. to notify to them? for all the other questions they are not my business I was just a hungry person going to by food

sigh............thats y i don't want2 get involved in this
mamoo out!!!

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

sMASH on Friday I went to el socorro to buy Chinese food opposite the mosque and there was no parking available but i manage to squeeze in a corner and while waiting for my food I realized that all the parking was taken up by Muslims who went to pray ,now tell me based on your belief in deeds, should a Muslim be inconsiderate to others just so he can pray to his god? is that considered a good deed or a bad deed because I was real hungry and left inconvenienced and at that time those people only cared about serving their god they knew fully well that they would
be an inconvenience to others but simply did not care
please tell me what you think

all religions can be inconsiderate when carrying out religious acts, blocking up roads, causing traffic, polluting, noise, disturbing others, knocking on people gate.

but pray to "his" god? seriously?

you are the same guy who said earlier that you do not put the needs of man as being more important than serving god.

megadoc1 you are a BIGOT and a HIPOCRITE

[megadoc1]

sMASH on Friday I went to el socorro to buy Chinese food opposite the mosque and there was no parking available but i manage to squeeze in a corner and while waiting for my food I realized that all the parking was taken up by Muslims who went to pray ,now tell me based on your belief in deeds, should a Muslim be inconsiderate to others just so he can pray to his god? is that considered a good deed or a bad deed because I was real hungry and left inconvenienced and at that time those people only cared about serving their god they knew fully well that they would
be an inconvenience to others but simply did not care
please tell me what you think

all religions can be inconsiderate when carrying out religious acts, blocking up roads, causing traffic, polluting, noise, disturbing others, knocking on people gate.
I am asking a question based on sMASH's posts if you never read them sit back and let him answer ,it is sad that the same person accusing me of lacking comprehension is guilty of it

but pray to "his" god? seriously?

you are the same guy who said earlier that you do not put the needs of man as being more important than serving god. yes thats my belief and within it all what is good flows out which includes meeting man's needs (currently we do not agree on what are the needs of man )but read smash 's earlier posts on deeds especially the small ones he even posted videos about that is what my question is based on (his beliefs)

megadoc1 you are a BIGOT and a HIPOCRITE
I am sorry if you feel that way but I guess you were looking for a reason to say that anyways however you "misunderstood" what I was asking leading you to make that statement in error be care ful you are not becoming "myopic"

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ don't try to squirm yourself out of it

because I was real hungry and left inconvenienced and at that time those people only cared about serving their god

you said that and it does not change the meaning regardless of what sMash or anyone else believes.

[megadoc1]

^ don't try to squirm yourself out of it

because I was real hungry and left inconvenienced and at that time those people only cared about serving their god

you said that and it does not change the meaning regardless of what sMash or anyone else believes.

cut that out duane you fully well did not understand what i was asking

sMash came up with scenarios based on his understanding of our theories what we believe,
looking for answers but
I had a real life situation (that actually happened)and asked a question based on my understanding of his theories and beliefs to see what is his response and for that I have been called a bigot and a hypocrite
I am not bothered being called those but for measuring a theory ? an honest question based on a real life situation? nah man............
am I to think now that those theories posted here do not apply to real life and was just talk?
what is the meaning of hypocrisy?

Hypocrisy is the act of pretending to have beliefs, opinions, virtues, feelings, qualities, or standards that one does not actually have. Hypocrisy involves the deception of others and is thus a kind of lie.

after all ...........................................................................................
can some unbiased person tell me where I am wrong?...please

[toyo682]

the point of eternally goin to hell for a small sin or slip, and granted entry to heaven even though great sins were committed, is not so ideal.

What constitutes as a sin and why?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ depends on personal beliefs: If someone believes that religion is a man made thing, then sin to them is anything that man feels is morally wrong and men who define religious beliefs would incorporate it into religions as a "sin".

polygamy is a sin in some religions and totally acceptable in others.
Drinking alcohol is a sin in some religions and totally acceptable in others.
Lying on the other hand is a sin in every religion.

^ don't try to squirm yourself out of it

because I was real hungry and left inconvenienced and at that time those people only cared about serving their god

you said that and it does not change the meaning regardless of what sMash or anyone else believes.

cut that out duane you fully well did not understand what i was asking

sMash came up with scenarios based on his understanding of our theories what we believe,
looking for answers but
I had a real life situation (that actually happened)and asked a question based on my understanding of his theories and beliefs to see what is his response and for that I have been called a bigot and a hypocrite
I am not bothered being called those but for measuring a theory ? an honest question based on a real life situation? nah man............
am I to think now that those theories posted here do not apply to real life and was just talk?
what is the meaning of hypocrisy?

Hypocrisy is the act of pretending to have beliefs, opinions, virtues, feelings, qualities, or standards that one does not actually have. Hypocrisy involves the deception of others and is thus a kind of lie.

after all ...........................................................................................
can some unbiased person tell me where I am wrong?...please

regardless of what discussion you were having with sMash or that you were drawing scenarios, it does not change the fact that you had a personal experience and your REAL feelings at that time was that someone was inconveniencing you because they wanted to pray to their God.
That statement condemns the person because you infer that their God is less important than your convenience and hunger since you said you were hungry at the time and impatient.
Hypocrisy also means "A person who professes certain ideals, but fails to live up to them." aka "preach one thing and then do the opposite".

You have said before that no one can stand between you and your God, yet to condemn and judge others for their beliefs.

I am not taking this out of context as this was a real situation you were in and you voiced your real feelings you had at the time.

[cacasplat3]

have to say, i agree with duane.............mdoc's representation of the situation and his questions about it reflected a sort of disgust with the mentioned religion..............

i'm not saying that i wont feel inconvenienced, however, make no mistake about it, thats more to do with human nature than religious beliefs......stop trying to make it look like muslims took your parking space.........if it was a gynaecologists office, would u say pregnant ppl inconsiderate and their needs less important than yours?

i think the issue here isnt the ppl parking at the restaurant, but its your damn idiotic mentality that other ppl's beliefs less important that your own.........