The Religion Discussion

[megadoc1]

am....I doubt very much that sMASH was speaking about temptation

Very good! You are attempting to read the posts of others... that is wonderful progress on your part... keep it up! Now, look at my post again, for neither was I speaking about temptation... but the fact that the kids weren't blatant sinners.
Perhaps you would try to make a better attempt at answering Smash's question on what happens to those who slip a little on the way up?

those who slip a little on the way up are already forgiven, they cannot beg for something they already received

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

is either he don't even know what his own religion is about or he is simply trying to decieve someone

The only person who has been deceived here is you apparently.


So do you have any valid reason why christianity is right and hinduism is wrong?

[megadoc1]

is either he don't even know what his own religion is about or he is simply trying to decieve someone

The only person who has been deceived here is you apparently. can you show me this?


So do you have any valid reason why christianity is right and hinduism is wrong?
lol....what would you consider as valid?
by what/who standards are we gonna consider what is valid?
until we have common grounds to clarify that, lets just stick to what we believe...cool?

[toyo682]

ok, lets explore the smallie.... situation.


the man watch the samllie, and gone to church, calm dong himself, and after august holidays done, the smallie come back home, and is the same church they attend...
he interacting with the flock, and start to talk with samllie. he cool, and tryin to keep so. then they end up in one of the rooms in the back alone, ting start to go on. prob u may not like that this happening in church, so lets say they have a function by her neighbor and he attends to help out. they manage to reach in she garage and the ting start to go on. but they stop, saying is immoral an ting... but pressure done build, both sides. then they bonx up in trincity and they lime, and then start to go home in one car, as one of them come up with another group. lo and behold the expected goes on before they reach home. then when the put on some clothes they get run over by junior sammy and dead.
they believe in jesus but performs premarital sex, and den did not get time to beg forgiveness. do the go to heaven for believing in christ or do they go to hell for repeatedly indulging their lust till satisfaction?

Smash wasn't talking about BLATANT sinning. Two young kids with hormones pouring out of their ears, aren't blatant sinners, just unknowing fish in a shore pool at the onset of low tide...

I guess lust is no longer a sin according to the Bible, I missed that in my reading sorry about that. so repeatedly indulging lust could never consider blatant sinning.

[toyo682]

That is what I do when I find a exegesis that is different from those of the school of though I follow.

I can easily believe that you follow "a school of though".

my bad

[toyo682]

Paul writes about this 'condition', stating that perhaps marriage is best... and good Christian folk, well past adolescence - and their memories of it - love to quote him. However, a study of this work and the early Christian culture it was set in, shows that it was a common belief that the Christ was returning very soon, and so, long term things like settling down and watching the kiddies grow old, was not considered a priority - neither was it considered an eventual reality. (It took the passage of time and the death of the original Jesus crew, to make the young church realise that the bus may be a little late...)
So in Paul's mind, if the young 'uns are too hot n' sweaty, give them a room and the Church's blessings... let them work it out of their system, and get back to working in the vineyard.

So Paul was thus okay with fornication, I am starting to see the light.

[megadoc1]

Paul writes about this 'condition', stating that perhaps marriage is best... and good Christian folk, well past adolescence - and their memories of it - love to quote him. However, a study of this work and the early Christian culture it was set in, shows that it was a common belief that the Christ was returning very soon, and so, long term things like settling down and watching the kiddies grow old, was not considered a priority - neither was it considered an eventual reality. (It took the passage of time and the death of the original Jesus crew, to make the young church realise that the bus may be a little late...)
So in Paul's mind, if the young 'uns are too hot n' sweaty, give them a room and the Church's blessings... let them work it out of their system, and get back to working in the vineyard.

So Paul was thus okay with fornication, I am starting to see the light.

lol...i missed that

[d spike]

Paul writes about this 'condition', stating that perhaps marriage is best... and good Christian folk, well past adolescence - and their memories of it - love to quote him. However, a study of this work and the early Christian culture it was set in, shows that it was a common belief that the Christ was returning very soon, and so, long term things like settling down and watching the kiddies grow old, was not considered a priority - neither was it considered an eventual reality. (It took the passage of time and the death of the original Jesus crew, to make the young church realise that the bus may be a little late...)
So in Paul's mind, if the young 'uns are too hot n' sweaty, give them a room and the Church's blessings... let them work it out of their system, and get back to working in the vineyard.

So Paul was thus okay with fornication, I am starting to see the light.

lol...i missed that

Of course you will agree with Toyo here...
after all, neither of you read in order to acquire meaning. That is why both of you missed this completely:

and the Church's blessings...

This refers to marriage.

Paul writes about this 'condition', stating that perhaps marriage is best..

I guess you both missed this, too...

I really wish that you and your ilk would stop allowing your baser feelings from colouring your sight when you attempt to read my posts. That way, you might actually understand what I am saying. It has got quite tiresome having to first write in language simple enough so that you could follow... and then still have to return and further explain previously clearly laid-out points.

[megadoc1]

yeah right
now tell me what that had to do with sMASH's post?

[toyo682]

Paul writes about this 'condition', stating that perhaps marriage is best... and good Christian folk, well past adolescence - and their memories of it - love to quote him. However, a study of this work and the early Christian culture it was set in, shows that it was a common belief that the Christ was returning very soon, and so, long term things like settling down and watching the kiddies grow old, was not considered a priority - neither was it considered an eventual reality. (It took the passage of time and the death of the original Jesus crew, to make the young church realise that the bus may be a little late...)
So in Paul's mind, if the young 'uns are too hot n' sweaty, give them a room and the Church's blessings... let them work it out of their system, and get back to working in the vineyard.

So Paul was thus okay with fornication, I am starting to see the light.

lol...i missed that

Of course you will agree with Toyo here...
after all, neither of you read in order to acquire meaning. That is why both of you missed this completely:

and the Church's blessings...

This refers to marriage.

Paul writes about this 'condition', stating that perhaps marriage is best..

I guess you both missed this, too...

please accept my apologies.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

lol....what would you consider as valid?
by what/who standards are we gonna consider what is valid?
until we have common grounds to clarify that, lets just stick to what we believe...cool?

I would love to do that, however you condemn others for their beliefs, so I am asking what makes you feel you are right

I have nothing against what you or anyone else believes.
You believe you can heal people and cast out demons and that is fine. You can also believe you can levitate and accurately predict the future and that would probably be fine too.

The only thing is that you can't seem to prove any of your claims to anyone here.

[AlliDr]

d spike your input would be most appreciated, thanks.

What about the Christian doctrine, The Perseverance of the saints (as well as "Once Saved, Always Saved"), which teaches that once a person is truly saved they can never lose their salvation.

My interpretation is that any Christian (who is truly “saved”) and happens to die before they have time to repent of any sins committed after their salvation experience you will still go to heaven.

For it is written,

"He who overcomes shall thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life." Revelation 3:5

“The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.” Revelation 17:8

Again my interpretation is that specific names are implied to have been written in the book of life since creation and once your name is written it cannot be erased.

[d spike]

ok, lets explore the smallie.... situation.


the man watch the samllie, and gone to church, calm dong himself, and after august holidays done, the smallie come back home, and is the same church they attend...
he interacting with the flock, and start to talk with samllie. he cool, and tryin to keep so. then they end up in one of the rooms in the back alone, ting start to go on. prob u may not like that this happening in church, so lets say they have a function by her neighbor and he attends to help out. they manage to reach in she garage and the ting start to go on. but they stop, saying is immoral an ting... but pressure done build, both sides. then they bonx up in trincity and they lime, and then start to go home in one car, as one of them come up with another group. lo and behold the expected goes on before they reach home. then when the put on some clothes they get run over by junior sammy and dead.
they believe in jesus but performs premarital sex, and den did not get time to beg forgiveness. do the go to heaven for believing in christ or do they go to hell for repeatedly indulging their lust till satisfaction?

Smash wasn't talking about BLATANT sinning. Two young kids with hormones pouring out of their ears, aren't blatant sinners, just unknowing fish in a shore pool at the onset of low tide...

I guess lust is no longer a sin according to the Bible, I missed that in my reading sorry about that. so repeatedly indulging lust could never consider blatant sinning.

Don't be an arse.
Smash was presenting a hypothetical situation which revolved around people who could be considered inherently good, but make a mistake and err.
With this in mind, upon regarding the phrase you so cleverly underlined, it was obvious to me at the time, that Smash had either strayed from his main point (which is STILL the focal point that he wanted answers for), or this is just a remarkable euphemism for having premarital sex.
This, my unlearned friend, is called UNDERSTANDING. You should try it some time.
Please re-read the sequence of events clearly (which I now repost for you to view easily):

they manage to reach in she garage and the ting start to go on. but they stop, saying is immoral an ting... but pressure done build, both sides. then they bonx up in trincity and they lime, and then start to go home in one car, as one of them come up with another group. lo and behold the expected goes on before they reach home. then when the put on some clothes they get run over by junior sammy and dead.

Clearly, the time when they had sex was between going home from the lime in Trincity, and before they got hit by the truck.

...and you said you had a degree? I take it this degree was acquired by doing some sort of written test? Multiple-choice, perhaps?

And you were poking fun at other folks' slips?

i think i have ur logic structure down, since i was in it an allyou were in my logic structure? when?

I find you are really brave to do that sort of thing, what with all your slips, green verbs, poor grammar and all... or rather stupid... or you think everyone here is dumber than you.

That is what I do when I find a exegesis that is different from those of the school of though I follow.

I can easily believe that you follow "a school of though".

my bad

You have a lot of "bad" to deal with. I suggest you get it sorted out soon. Most primary school teachers supplement their income by providing extra lessons. Find one. They work in buildings called "schools". You might not be able to recognize them, but folks (if asked nicely enough) will provide you with directions. Do us all a favour, and take Megadoc with you.




Your inability to understand the meaning behind a passage (such as with my reference to an excerpt of one of Paul's letters, or Smash's query) raises this concern: how are you able to identify the meaning of passages in scripture? Or do you do like Megadoc, and contact a friend before each post that resembles an act of lucidity?

[MG Man]

am I on page 200???

















































































huh?













































am I?
















































yay..................I think

[MG Man]

dammit
god lied

[illumin@ti]

In before the 200!

[d spike]

yeah right
now tell me what that had to do with sMASH's post?

If you are too dense to see such a thing as it has been laid out quite clearly, then attempting further explanation would just be a waste of my time as well as yours.
I would humbly suggest that you make yourself useful by:
supporting the corner of a house somewhere;
or supporting some sleepy roosting fowls.

[MG Man]

200?
yeah?





































































yeah?
me?

[MG Man]

whatthafuck

[illumin@ti]

spike,,, i've given up on them really, its all a huge waste of time. Megadoc refuses to learn anything or adjust his mentality to a more accommodating and tolerant one.....

spinning top in mud i say

[d spike]

Since you have me talking about the bullcrap some write... let's look at this.

The message you preach here about Islam that the Islam we see in the middle east is two different religions my friend.

wow ...I for so long wanted to say that
he claims to know what Christianity is about but the islam he preached here is clearly not the islam
that came fort from Muhammad so is either he don't even know what his own religion is about or he is simply trying to decieve someone

Let's take a closer look at a work of art where inanity is concerned.
The message you preach here about Islam that the Islam we see in the middle east is two different religions
This clearly states that: Smash preaches about Islam in the Middle East being two different religions. (Has he ever done this?)

wow ...I for so long wanted to say that
Yes... this should be obvious, as Megadoc is always happy to produce inanity and incorrect statements - but I digress.

he claims to know what Christianity is about but the islam he preached here is clearly not the islam
that came fort from Muhammad
Contrary to how it is written, the first part of this sentence has no bearing whatsoever on the second part. More inanity.

so is either he don't even know what his own religion is about or he is simply trying to decieve someone
To attempt to make sense out of what came before this part is only a recipe for migraine.
However, this part is lucid enough to read. Unfortunately, like a heavy roof on a rotten house, it requires support in order to be worth something, and support is not forthcoming from the senseless crap that went before.
It is sadly apparent that the only thing that can be gained from this particular post, is that Megadoc either doesn't know what he is about, or he is simply trying to deceive someone.

[d spike]

please accept my apologies.

Are you REALLY sorry? Contrition can easily be shown by performing the following:

I really wish that you and your ilk would stop allowing your baser feelings from colouring your sight when you attempt to read my posts. That way, you might actually understand what I am saying. It has got quite tiresome having to first write in language simple enough so that you could follow... and then still have to return and further explain previously clearly laid-out points.

[QG]

ok, the pastor, u say that action of mocking the other religion would never be accepted by the god. what happens to him for making that statement or if he did burn it, what should happen to him for doing so? personallly I thought this man was a backside, but like I said not everyone who is in church or stands on a pulpit to preach they are saved. The Bible tells is that "by their fruits you will know them." There is a fruit of salvation, which is why eph 2:10 says we are saved to do good works. This brings to life the story of the good Samaritan. You see the Jewish man did not mind doing good to other Jews, but the Samaritans was another story. That is why he tried to justify who his neighbor was the Bible tells us. Now while many here already think I am disrespectful I cannot help that, I have posted the scriptures you be the judge. While I preach Christ is the only way and yes to some if not many that is offensive I would never, take up arms to convert people, burn temples,etc etc. Nor do I teach the people under me to do so. I merely speak what the Bible says. In fact those who know me well know that I am critical of Christianity, because many people as you have said do not live up to it. I have learned however that when it boils down to it my relationship with Christ cannot be shaped by what I see it others but what I see in the word of God. Belief in Christ is not a rocking chair that is what James as talking about. Your salvation is justified by what you do, that meaning, if you say you are saved the fruits of such salvation would be evident in the way you live your life. Paul and James did not contradict each other as many believe. Like Peter said in 1 Peter 3:16 many at that time had misunderstood the hard teachings of Paul, which was the reason for James saying what he said. would he go to hell for it, would he go to hell for a time for it, would he still go to heaven but get a stern look of dissatisfaction or would he go to a lesser heaven or enjoy lesser comforts than if her were never to commit those acts?would he go to hell, well you be the judge based on what I have said, I can only hope for him and many Christians out there that we see the error of our ways each day and strive to correct them. My greatest fear is to stand before him and have him say depart from me I never knew you.

i am not tryin to mock this time, i am trying to figure out how it works.

if u have an answer, please provide it, if u dont, u dont need to put sumting or quote sumthing in replacement, just say ur not sure or u need to get back. when u quote sumting, u leave the interpretation up to the reader, and i would interpret sumthing of my own design and when i say sumting based on that, u would get vex and say i eh understand... but when asked to clarify u did not clarify, u left it up to me to get my own version.

in other words, if u know answer the question outright, dont dance like mega. if u dont know, is no scenes.

Great!! Smash I think this was a good response from Toyo, but to answer your question I do not know if that pastor will go to hell for every man and woman are judged by God!
But good news is that HE DID NOT DO IT! So he can repent and beg for forgiveness

[cacasplat3]

[

Smash I note that you are pointing out the flaws of Christianity by these things, but you seem to ignore the things that Islam has done. Islam is one of the most violent religions on the earth right now, but I guess you will say that Osama is not really Muslim nor are the extremist, funny how that works every person who calls themselves Christian whether they be good or bad seem to be true Christians in your eyes. My wife's missionary friends just had to flee turkey where Muslims are now killing Christians but I am sure you will say they are making that up. The message you preach here about Islam that the Islam we see in the middle east is two different religions my friend.

wow ...I for so long wanted to say that
he claims to know what Christianity is about but the islam he preached here is clearly not the islam
that came fort from Muhammad so is either he don't even know what his own religion is about or he is simply trying to decieve someone

they say never argue with a fool.........for ppl never say "look at that smart guy arguing with that fool" they always say "look at those two fools arguing"

i wonder what they say about someone agreeing with a fool............

[cacasplat3]

^^^^^hahahahaha MG Man 200 before u!

[hydroep]

200 pages of going around in circles. Ah well...

[MG Man]

goddammit
allahdammit
jesusdammit
ramadammit
stephenhwakingdammit

[d spike]

d spike your input would be most appreciated, thanks.

What about the Christian doctrine, The Perseverance of the saints (as well as "Once Saved, Always Saved"), which teaches that once a person is truly saved they can never lose their salvation.
Firstly, this is a fundamentalist Christian teaching, and really isn't part of orthodox Christian doctrine. Please recall that we each have a personal bias (we were created as individuals) and if you belong to a group that accepts this as doctrine, and you are comfortable with it, then that may be your path.

My interpretation is that any Christian (who is truly “saved”) and happens to die before they have time to repent of any sins committed after their salvation experience you will still go to heaven.
This begs the question of what do you consider "saved"? There is a lot of emotional yap about being "saved" that has very little to do with Christian doctrine. If your interpretation considers "being saved" as being in total communion with God, and includes not being in a state of sin, then Heaven supposedly awaits that person if they kick the bucket then. However, you spoke of "unrepented sin" and "their salvation experience", so there is more to your question than this.
Nothing undefiled can enter heaven, we are told. Sin defiles us, we are also told. So to be able to enter heaven in a state of unrepented sin, is clearly a conflict of concepts. If you honestly disagree with such a statement, then perhaps someone who is of your specific faith, and is accepted as a teacher of that faith, could guide you far better along your path, as it clearly isn't mine. If so, direct your questions to him.


Again my interpretation is that specific names are implied to have been written in the book of life since creation and once your name is written it cannot be erased.
Please bear in mind that Revelations is an example of apocalyptic writing, and so is full of figurative language that fundamentalists insist on interpreting literally. Apocalyptic writing in ancient times showed the power of God, not what actually is to be - simply put, it is one of many idioms that a student of scripture should be able to identify and understand before he delves into that sort of writing.

This "being saved" concept is actually a recent revamping of a very old issue that bordered on error. If you wish, I can expand on this.

To believe in personal salvation is all well and good, but that cannot be the be-all-and-end-all of your religion... The mantra of "I am saved!" cannot be the focal point of the human relationship with the Creator - this is a very selfish viewpoint. To have a "personal relationship with God" is a good thing, but we were put here as a people, to achieve something as a people. (One reason why suicide is wrong.)
Life is beautiful, but too short for an individual to achieve God's plan (if there is one) on his own. We each go through life, meeting far too many individuals, to interact fully with each... far too many problems and ills exist for any one of us to deal with - alone. We can run to a "God" for solace, but in every example of this, we are told that the answer lies within us as a people. We are "Christ" to each other - or whatever you want to call it.
We are called as a people to achieve something wonderful, over time (hence the reason for procreation) and this is what was meant for us.

The world isn't going to end in a fit of God's anger and frustration with our inability to do what's right (that would mean the Devil won and God failed, wouldn't it?) but when we succeed in doing our part in the Great Scheme of things/"God's plan".

[AlliDr]

^^While I welcome your comments, which are also quite enlightening, the query was directed more in relation to the hypothetical "smallie situation" posed by sMash, but your responses have also dealt with this.

While I do not subscribe to the "Once Saved, Always Saved" doctrine either, I was just curious to hear a non-fundamentalist Christian point of view, because there is the risk of giving free reign to sin if you follow such teachings.

[d spike]

spike,,, i've given up on them really, its all a huge waste of time. Megadoc refuses to learn anything or adjust his mentality to a more accommodating and tolerant one.....

spinning top in mud i say

As far as Megadoc learning anything, we realised long ago that the acquisition of knowledge exceeded his abilities, and I have never expected otherwise since then. I only respond to posts such as his to ensure the voice of logic is stated, hopefully heard...

Mr d spike,why a man with all your high knowledge and logic
could be bothered by a little idiot like me ?
Honesty? Well, that's a start. I bother with little idiots like you because your loud, incessant yowlings can fool younglings into thinking your berating and haranguing is what religion is about, and either drive them away from exploring an intriguing aspect of their humanity, or suck them into your mind-destroying souless pretence at spirituality.

So I still serve a purpose (and the amusement generated by the antics of the character do provide some relief )

Spinning top in mud? Nay...

An old tale goes: a horse in a field comes across a small bird lying on its back with its feet in the air.
"What are you doing?" said the horse.
"I heard the sky was going to fall today, so I'm going to use my legs to hold it up." said the bird.
"You think those tiny, spindly legs could hold up the sky?" laughed the horse.
The bird responded, "One does what one can."

And so, though my attempts to be the voice of logic may seem inadequate, one does what one can.

(200 pages, eh? Did you ever think that so much drivel could come to this without imploding?)