The Religion Discussion

[AlliDr]

AND YES IT IS OK TO WORSHIP THE DEVIL, BECAUSE MOST CHRISTIAN TEACHINGS SAY ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IN ACCEPT JESUS AS YOUR SAVIOR BEFORE YOU DIE AND YOU WILL BE ABSOLVED OF YOUR SINS - SO IF I CAN WORSHIP THE DEVIL AND BE A MASS MURDERER BUT STILL GO TO HEAVEN IF I REPENT WHY SHOULD I BOTHER TO LIVE A "GOOD" LIFE - I GO STILL GET INthis is a good plan, care to share with us what day you are going to die? Or how? In such a case it would really suck to be you if a bandit hit you behind the head unsuspecting and you died. If you are willing to take that chance I guess I have no choice but to respect that.

You are assuming I believe what you do and want to go to heaven........anyway,

FYI, these are just three examples of American serial killers, of numerous cases throughout the world, who have taken advantage of this “loophole” in the Bible:

Serial killer Ted Bundy – Confessed to killing over thirty people (suspected of at least twice that number) between 1974-1978, was convicted in 1980 and executed in 1989, he raped some victims and even had intercourse with them after they were dead. While on death row, claimed he had found forgiveness for his sins through Jesus Christ and became a born again Christian - he is going to heaven, but not Mahatma Gandhi?

Serial killer David Berkowitz (Son of Sam) – Killed six people between 1976-1977 and was a member of a satanic cult, was sentenced to six life sentences in 1978. In 1987 he became a born again Christian in prison and repented for his crimes – he is going to heaven, but not a person who follows Islam?

Charles “Tex” Watson (former member of the Manson Family) – The four members of the Manson family were convicted of 27 separate counts of murder, “Tex” Watson of seven counts of first-degree murder. The most notorious of these murders being the Tate murders on August 9th 1969, one of the victims (Wojciech Frykowski) was stabbed twenty-eight times and another (Sharon Tate) who was eight and a half months pregnant was stabbed sixteen times. “Tex” Watson also became a born again Christian in prison and even became a preacher - he is going to heaven, but not a person who follows Buddhism?

I can easily furnish you with many more if you think these are just three isolated examples.

[d spike]

so based on d spike and smash posts are we to agree that all truth is not created equal?is truth absolute?

islam is true.......................................... TO ME.

Jesus is true to me
based on your truth I can't I can't go to heaven thru christianity
and based on my truth you cannot go to heaven following islam
so why deceive each other?
why fool ourselves into thinking that all truth is truth
when they contrdict one another?

This is just one of many perfect examples you have provided here for our edification and amusement, of your complete inability to READ AND UNDERSTAND what others write.

I have spoken to you about the issue behind this sort of errant thinking before (if the word "thinking" can be loosely applied here )...
Religion is simply the relationship between God and man. What is between God and each man is THAT man's business. People who share similar relationships with God form groups, and members of each group attempt to rear their children along the lines prescribed by their groups, teaching them to share similar relationships with God.
Each person who believes in the existence of a Creator, views this existence as a truth. This truth is seen from the many different perspectives of culture, era, and personality... so the same truth can and will be expressed in different ways - that does NOT mean there exists separate truths, just one.

Why are you so concerned with the correctness of what others believe? Concern yourself with YOURS. Like a spoilt child who gets upset when everyone else gets ice-cream when he got a sandwich - which he had asked for in the first place - you need to stop looking in the lunch-bags of others... Stop seeing what you have in terms of what others have. Stop valuing your religion in relative terms.

Religion is between God and you... not how you value it. This error is one of the insiduous ways that materialism has found its way into religion. Your 'relationship with God' is now brought down to the level of what car you can afford to drive, or the amount of gold caps on your teeth.

Cheers
Oh yes, grow up.

[Kasey]

IMHO it is not a 'loop hole' in the bible eh, its just how, man has interpreted what he saw (in the bible) and tried to understand. They have convenielty nitpicked phrases and blew them up making them the 'most important' parts in the bible, effectively ignoring the real message, which is really how to live your life.

This is not an attack on the bible's teachings, this is a discussion about some ppls arrogance and disrespect for other peoples cultures and religions.

Duck and toyo seem to think some ppl here are 'attacking' Christianity because of way some other individuals put forward theit points. THIS IS NOT A FOOTBALL MATCH, as D_SPIKE said, this has become a discussion to try and decypher why some closed minded cretins have utter disrespect for other religions.

AGAIN, NO ONE HAS A PROBLEM WITH CHRISTIANITY, OR ANY OTHER RELIGION, WE HAVE A PROBLEM OF YOU TELLING ME YOURS IS RIGHT AND MINE IS WRONG. JUST LIVE AND LET LIVE, AND STOP CONCENTRATING ON 0.00001% OF ALL THE BIBLES TEACHINGS.

[d spike]

FYI, these are just three examples of American serial killers, of numerous cases throughout the world, who have taken advantage of this “loophole” in the Bible:

Serial killer Ted Bundy – Confessed to killing over thirty people (suspected of at least twice that number) between 1974-1978, was convicted in 1980 and executed in 1989, he raped some victims and even had intercourse with them after they were dead. While on death row, claimed he had found forgiveness for his sins through Jesus Christ and became a born again Christian - he is going to heaven, but not Mahatma Gandhi?

Serial killer David Berkowitz (Son of Sam) – Killed six people between 1976-1977 and was a member of a satanic cult, was sentenced to six life sentences in 1978. In 1987 he became a born again Christian in prison and repented for his crimes – he is going to heaven, but not a person who follows Islam?

Charles “Tex” Watson (former member of the Manson Family) – The four members of the Manson family were convicted of 27 separate counts of murder, “Tex” Watson of seven counts of first-degree murder. The most notorious of these murders being the Tate murders on August 9th 1969, one of the victims (Wojciech Frykowski) was stabbed twenty-eight times and another (Sharon Tate) who was eight and a half months pregnant was stabbed sixteen times. “Tex” Watson also became a born again Christian in prison and even became a preacher - he is going to heaven, but not a person who follows Buddhism?

I can easily furnish you with many more if you think these are just three isolated examples.

Ouch!!!!
Talk about perspective...

This does however raise the topic of forgiveness...

[toyo682]

AND YES IT IS OK TO WORSHIP THE DEVIL, BECAUSE MOST CHRISTIAN TEACHINGS SAY ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IN ACCEPT JESUS AS YOUR SAVIOR BEFORE YOU DIE AND YOU WILL BE ABSOLVED OF YOUR SINS - SO IF I CAN WORSHIP THE DEVIL AND BE A MASS MURDERER BUT STILL GO TO HEAVEN IF I REPENT WHY SHOULD I BOTHER TO LIVE A "GOOD" LIFE - I GO STILL GET INthis is a good plan, care to share with us what day you are going to die? Or how? In such a case it would really suck to be you if a bandit hit you behind the head unsuspecting and you died. If you are willing to take that chance I guess I have no choice but to respect that.

You are assuming I believe what you do and want to go to heaven........anyway,

FYI, these are just three examples of American serial killers, of numerous cases throughout the world, who have taken advantage of this “loophole” in the Bible:

Serial killer Ted Bundy – Confessed to killing over thirty people (suspected of at least twice that number) between 1974-1978, was convicted in 1980 and executed in 1989, he raped some victims and even had intercourse with them after they were dead. While on death row, claimed he had found forgiveness for his sins through Jesus Christ and became a born again Christian - he is going to heaven, but not Mahatma Gandhi?

Serial killer David Berkowitz (Son of Sam) – Killed six people between 1976-1977 and was a member of a satanic cult, was sentenced to six life sentences in 1978. In 1987 he became a born again Christian in prison and repented for his crimes – he is going to heaven, but not a person who follows Islam?

Charles “Tex” Watson (former member of the Manson Family) – The four members of the Manson family were convicted of 27 separate counts of murder, “Tex” Watson of seven counts of first-degree murder. The most notorious of these murders being the Tate murders on August 9th 1969, one of the victims (Wojciech Frykowski) was stabbed twenty-eight times and another (Sharon Tate) who was eight and a half months pregnant was stabbed sixteen times. “Tex” Watson also became a born again Christian in prison and even became a preacher - he is going to heaven, but not a person who follows Buddhism?

I can easily furnish you with many more if you think these are just three isolated examples.

Loop hole you say, these are proof of the power of Christ to transform the lives of men, to take the vilest sinner and wash their sins away. You miss the point of this loop hole as you call it. They all repented of their sins, repentance in its strongest sense is not merely a feeling of guilt or sorrow that makes one say sorry, but it is a deliberate turning away from sin. Saying sorry and asking God for forgiveness yet continuing to sin is not repentance. In our laws we have set fines for certain crimes, as I have pointed out all sin is but one thing rebellion to God and thus meets the same punishment. But in your code of belief what is the fine for sin and how does one pay for it? Two good works to one sins is that how it works? I would like to know because in no few words you have clearly pointed that we Christians have a wrong belief, wait I believe this is the same ignorance and disrespect that we have been accused of right here. Also according to what you believe and your rant on the above people are some beyond the forgiveness of God? And if they are to be saved by doing good works, should we let them out so they can do some good. We do not want to stand in the way of anyone's eternal destiny now do we? Or do we have the power to condemn them to both prison and hell? But if their repentance is genuine would God count their imprisonment here on earth as payment for their crimes or send them to hell to pay again for what they have done. Does God hate them now? Also how do you know that these men are not sincere in their repentance?

[AlliDr]

IMHO it is not a 'loop hole' in the bible eh, its just how, man has interpreted what he saw (in the bible) and tried to understand. They have convenielty nitpicked phrases and blew them up making them the 'most important' parts in the bible, effectively ignoring the real message, which is really how to live your life.

This is not an attack on the bible's teachings, this is a discussion about some ppls arrogance and disrespect for other peoples cultures and religions.

Duck and toyo seem to think some ppl here are 'attacking' Christianity because of way some other individuals put forward theit points. THIS IS NOT A FOOTBALL MATCH, as D_SPIKE said, this has become a discussion to try and decypher why some closed minded cretins have utter disrespect for other religions.

AGAIN, NO ONE HAS A PROBLEM WITH CHRISTIANITY, OR ANY OTHER RELIGION, WE HAVE A PROBLEM OF YOU TELLING ME YOURS IS RIGHT AND MINE IS WRONG. JUST LIVE AND LET LIVE, AND STOP CONCENTRATING ON 0.00001% OF ALL THE BIBLES TEACHINGS.

EXACTLY! well said sir.

[toyo682]

So since we have been accuse of misinterpreting the bible why is it that the Bible says Christ died?

[16 cycles]

^ what's the significance in concentrating on Jesus' death?

[AlliDr]

AND YES IT IS OK TO WORSHIP THE DEVIL, BECAUSE MOST CHRISTIAN TEACHINGS SAY ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IN ACCEPT JESUS AS YOUR SAVIOR BEFORE YOU DIE AND YOU WILL BE ABSOLVED OF YOUR SINS - SO IF I CAN WORSHIP THE DEVIL AND BE A MASS MURDERER BUT STILL GO TO HEAVEN IF I REPENT WHY SHOULD I BOTHER TO LIVE A "GOOD" LIFE - I GO STILL GET INthis is a good plan, care to share with us what day you are going to die? Or how? In such a case it would really suck to be you if a bandit hit you behind the head unsuspecting and you died. If you are willing to take that chance I guess I have no choice but to respect that.

You are assuming I believe what you do and want to go to heaven........anyway,

FYI, these are just three examples of American serial killers, of numerous cases throughout the world, who have taken advantage of this “loophole” in the Bible:

Serial killer Ted Bundy – Confessed to killing over thirty people (suspected of at least twice that number) between 1974-1978, was convicted in 1980 and executed in 1989, he raped some victims and even had intercourse with them after they were dead. While on death row, claimed he had found forgiveness for his sins through Jesus Christ and became a born again Christian - he is going to heaven, but not Mahatma Gandhi?

Serial killer David Berkowitz (Son of Sam) – Killed six people between 1976-1977 and was a member of a satanic cult, was sentenced to six life sentences in 1978. In 1987 he became a born again Christian in prison and repented for his crimes – he is going to heaven, but not a person who follows Islam?

Charles “Tex” Watson (former member of the Manson Family) – The four members of the Manson family were convicted of 27 separate counts of murder, “Tex” Watson of seven counts of first-degree murder. The most notorious of these murders being the Tate murders on August 9th 1969, one of the victims (Wojciech Frykowski) was stabbed twenty-eight times and another (Sharon Tate) who was eight and a half months pregnant was stabbed sixteen times. “Tex” Watson also became a born again Christian in prison and even became a preacher - he is going to heaven, but not a person who follows Buddhism?

I can easily furnish you with many more if you think these are just three isolated examples.

Loop hole you say, these are proof of the power of Christ to transform the lives of men, to take the vilest sinner and wash their sins away. You miss the point of this loop hole as you call it. They all repented of their sins, repentance in its strongest sense is not merely a feeling of guilt or sorrow that makes one say sorry, but it is a deliberate turning away from sin. Saying sorry and asking God for forgiveness yet continuing to sin is not repentance. In our laws we have set fines for certain crimes, as I have pointed out all sin is but one thing rebellion to God and thus meets the same punishment. But in your code of belief what is the fine for sin and how does one pay for it? Two good works to one sins is that how it works? I would like to know because in no few words you have clearly pointed that we Christians have a wrong belief, wait I believe this is the same ignorance and disrespect that we have been accused of right here. Also according to what you believe and your rant on the above people are some beyond the forgiveness of God? And if they are to be saved by doing good works, should we let them out so they can do some good. We do not want to stand in the way of anyone's eternal destiny now do we? Or do we have the power to condemn them to both prison and hell? But if their repentance is genuine would God count their imprisonment here on earth as payment for their crimes or send them to hell to pay again for what they have done. Does God hate them now? Also how do you know that these men are not sincere in their repentance?

Again you are making assumptions of what my code of beliefs may or may not be, and nowhere did I ever say christians have a wrong belief, all religions have their positives and negatives and I was merely pointing one of christianity's negatives. There are parts of other religions I do not agree with either - not eating certain meats or dressing a certain way, that is their choice and I do not condemn them for it, you have missed the point, like d spike said its all about perspective. I am not against forgiveness either what i have a problem with is putting evil people (just because they repented) above good people of other religions.

I am not concerned with the hereafter, i am concerned with here and now, and believe you will pay for your sins on this earth and I am at peace with whatever may happen to me after death, it is not for me to pass judgement on the perceived sins of others.

[toyo682]

Again you are making assumptions of what my code of beliefs may or may not be, and nowhere did I ever say christians have a wrong belief, all religions have their positives and negatives and I was merely pointing one of christianity's negativesAm I missing something isn't the fact that pointing out negatives as you see them making a judgment that they are wrong?. There are parts of other religions I do not agree with either - not eating certain meats or dressing a certain way, that is their choice and I do not condemn them for it, you have missed the point, like d spike said its all about perspective.

I am not concerned with the hereafter, i am concerned with here and now, and believe you will pay for your sins on this earthI understand that I am asking you how does one pay and what is the measure of this payment, further more why do bother to pay if the hereafter does not concern you? Is it not easier to sin than to live a righteous life in this world? and I am at peace with whatever may happen to me after death, it is not for me to pass judgement on the perceived sins of others.

[AlliDr]

Again you are making assumptions of what my code of beliefs may or may not be, and nowhere did I ever say christians have a wrong belief, all religions have their positives and negatives and I was merely pointing one of christianity's negativesAm I missing something isn't the fact that pointing out negatives as you see them making a judgment that they are wrong? YES, that particular aspect (in my opinion), but i did not say all of christianity is wrong. There are parts of other religions I do not agree with either - not eating certain meats or dressing a certain way, that is their choice and I do not condemn them for it, you have missed the point, like d spike said its all about perspective.

I am not concerned with the hereafter, i am concerned with here and now, and believe you will pay for your sins on this earthI understand that I am asking you how does one pay and what is the measure of this payment, EVER HEARD OF KARMA further more why do bother to pay if the hereafter does not concern you? Is it not easier to sin than to live a righteous life in this world? YES - SO WHATS YOUR POINT? and I am at peace with whatever may happen to me after death, it is not for me to pass judgement on the perceived sins of others.

[toyo682]

EVER HEARD OF KARMA [color=#FF0000]

So why do bad things happen to good people?

[AlliDr]

EVER HEARD OF KARMA [color=#FF0000]

So why do bad things happen to good people?

I could ask you why does God let bad things happen to good people? but to answer your question,

If you have never experienced a rainy day would you appreciate a sunny one?

[MG Man]

EVER HEARD OF KARMA [color=#FF0000]

So why do bad things happen to good people?

cuz god sucks at his job

[d spike]

^ what's the significance in concentrating on Jesus' death?

His concept of salvation is based on the story of Jesus' death and resurrection, so he wants the discussion to focus on that... Rather like demanding that everyone in the discussion write in blue font as you feel most comfortable reading it.

[sMASH]

hell. the place, and its function.

is it a place to put people who did not utter the phrase that jesus is god (astigfirrallah) or is it a place for retribution for sins committed but not forgiven?
it is linked to judgment day, on which the destination and duration of persons are decided.

there may be one absolute truth, but people would have different interpretations. and because one would see one way better than another, they may not be able to see another person's way better than theirs.
if u like green, then blue would not be as good, in your opinion. so when i tell u blue better than green, u would not believe that.

IMHO it is not a 'loop hole' in the bible eh, its just how, man has interpreted what he saw (in the bible) and tried to understand. They have convenielty nitpicked phrases and blew them up making them the 'most important' parts in the bible, effectively ignoring the real message, which is really how to live your life.

This is not an attack on the bible's teachings, this is a discussion about some ppls arrogance and disrespect for other peoples cultures and religions.

Duck and toyo seem to think some ppl here are 'attacking' Christianity because of way some other individuals put forward theit points. THIS IS NOT A FOOTBALL MATCH, as D_SPIKE said, this has become a discussion to try and decypher why some closed minded cretins have utter disrespect for other religions.

AGAIN, NO ONE HAS A PROBLEM WITH CHRISTIANITY, OR ANY OTHER RELIGION, WE HAVE A PROBLEM OF YOU TELLING ME YOURS IS RIGHT AND MINE IS WRONG. JUST LIVE AND LET LIVE, AND STOP CONCENTRATING ON 0.00001% OF ALL THE BIBLES TEACHINGS.

the 0.00001% of what is said, does not really leave much purpose for the rest, hence why it is, most times disregarded. in islam, ( this control structure) how we carry out the other 99.99999 % is a determinant in our judgment; thus it is imperative that we not only believe, but perform. they believe that believing alone would make them or allow them to carry out the rest. we believe that carrying out the rest is still a choice, and a greater responsibility.

hinduism and bhudism, what is the goal of their practitioners?

also, some one's question about the soul needs to be satisfied. in short. i believe that we are the souls. the soul in my body is me. my body is a suit for living here on earth, and i am the AI making use of the hardware and firm ware.

[d spike]

Sh!t happens. That is part of the whole crocus-bag of life.
When Org threw his best spear at the mammoth, only wounding and enraging it, and it came over to where he was hiding behind a boulder, and stomped the stuffing out of him, leaving a sad little heap smeared on the ground... Sh!t happens.
When Crimonius, one of the bravest Roman legionnares in Gaul, defeated and slaughtered an entire Celtic village of warriors single-handedly, and while resting in the ruins of the village, was bitten by a frightened pig, and died as a result... Sh!t happens.
You go through life doing everything right, looking both ways before you cross the road, stopping at a red traffic light or every major road... then the one day somebody decides to airlift a grand piano by helicopter, they choose to pass over your house... and that's the day after the warranty runs out on the strapping used to support the load, and the day before you go to get house insurance, and the day that a passing photographer takes the "picture of the year"... Sh!t happens.

Some people think of the Creator as some sort of micromanaging puppet-master... some think of him as an absentee landlord, who isn't too concerned about his tenants, so long as the rent is paid... some think of him as rather deaf, and so produce a cacaphony to attract his attention, then wailing a litany of prayers in the hope that he will hear one or two... some think of him as a quiet, but not too attentive grandfather, who focuses more on plants and beetles, and has to be reminded regularly of his offsprings needs and wants... some prefer to consider him a jealous, vindictive and biased guy with poor eye-sight/bad memory, who needs constant reminding who's on his side, and directions on who to smite... some think of him as a Santa Claus... and some don't think at all, going through life, using the gifts given for the purpose, dealing with the sh!t.

We are here, in this world run by Natural Law, to live, and to choose how to live. Easy choices don't mean anything. It's easy to choose Right over Wrong when there is an instant reward, or everyone is watching, or the Wrong choice has nothing in it for you.
It's making the choices when the choices are tough, when the shades are grey, that define you, that strengthen you, that will lead you ultimately to a better life when this one is over... For life is a choice. It's about choosing, not succeeding. To be always attempting to do what is best, so when the time comes, we end up with that which created us to uphold Right and Good. Those who always choose what's best for themselves, those who were selfish, end up with themselves, nothing more.

[sMASH]

ah time i buy a fridge from g&l electronics, (yeah, i cheap, but half the time i get working stuff). a month before the warranty up it spoil. went to the store i bought it from and new name, colors, management, business was sold over. but the building, stock, and workers were the same.


stuff happens, what are u going to do about it?

[mamoo_pagal]

i now watch dat earthling vid in the knowledge thread i real emo now. my challenge is, now that i know, what am i going to do about it.

n this is my problem. Ppl here only wanting to only prove other religions wrong and ppl going to hell based on their biased beliefs. If ppl are so righteous and so proper why don't you fight for an end to this cruelty!!!

oh but i forgot when "Jesus" said thou shall not kill he was only referring that humans should not kill humans..........

[d spike]

lol..... this man claimed to have study the bible for many years and also teach Christianity
no way he is gonna let you talk to him like that
You still have absolutely NO idea why I do what I do... and due to your religious immaturity, you probably never will.
There is no question of me "not gonna let him talk to me like that"... this is a public discussion, and he is free to speak his mind (once he does not infringe on the right of others), even if that means making a spectacle of himself, as you were wont to do.
Having sampled many foods does not make one a gourmet or a cooking expert... if the gentleman wishes to think otherwise, he is free to do so.

but seriously for him to make such a boast like that
But seriously, what boast are you talking about?

Or are you just mouthing off again?

Megadoc, what boast are you talking about????????

[16 cycles]

^ what's the significance in concentrating on Jesus' death?

His concept of salvation is based on the story of Jesus' death and resurrection, so he wants the discussion to focus on that... Rather like demanding that everyone in the discussion write in blue font as you feel most comfortable reading it.

....imho....me thinks if people (regardless of religious persuasion or even atheists) follow his life's message and the example he set....whether you believe its a hodge podge of mixed up stories passed on from generation to generation or the truth....you will be a better person.

alot of the religious texts have stories which one can look to for guidance in times of distress....even if its all fictional or not....

^ let me know if i wrong there pls....

thanks for the clarification d_spike - much appreciated

[sMASH]

jesus came to save humans not the others so they not important(astigfirallah).... gimme ah break

i was by some people talkin, and a maribone ( some type of wasp) was buzzin round me and was on my hand some times. the lady was like 'kill it' and i was like 'why' and she was like ' it go bite yuh' and is was like 'it eh bite meh yet'
and i like watching dis ting crawl on me hand and fingers.
the children wanted me to kill it and was gathering slippers to do so, but desisted because i did not make it move from my hand, so they cannot be impolite and kill it by hitting me.

ting flew off with out stinging me, but it did bite now and then

it amazes me how easily people want to kill, be it little insects, just to satisfy their own comfort levels. they dont care that those little creatures have life, they dont see that sometimes they would not harm. they are quick to extinguish their little lives because they can potentially cause some discomfort. they dont even realize that they pollinate the flowers of the plants assisting in their propagation.

a sect in india used to wear masks for the mere chance that they may inhale an insect and kill it.
where has the awareness and concern for the other beings on this planet gone, or what has caused this knowledge to dwindle?


people dont see past their noses and consider even less.

mamoo, the atheists brought up the situation about religion and care for the other non human inhabitants, that idea was avoided even when pressured, around pg 80 or so


i have learned that we should not cut down trees when they are in fruit and in flower, that in war we should be careful to preserve the food plants or incur sin, that the ants considered the actions of the prophets and made movements to protect them selves and the prophets..

the christians say that their god killed himself/son for them. they think that makes themselves above everything else. but they do not contemplate that a greater being considered a lesser being and tried to preserve it, and so they do not try to emulate that, as being a christian is not following in its footsteps, the footprints of which are found in their bible. but that the bible is not necessary, as one only needs to believe and that is all that matters. i believe that when one knows more, one has a greater responsibility to make use of that knowledge.

[QG]

Mr MegaDoc1 sir!!! My message is very similar but is how you go about in doing it!
I believe in Jesus Christ, but I don't expect everyone to share my beliefs.
it is not about what we expect, it what we are commanded to do
that is spread the word Of God,now if you believe the word of God is truth
then you will know for sure that anything else is a lie and as long as you preach what you hold as truth you will offend people agreed?
question is do you put the fear of offending people (because the word of God will always seem as offending)before what your lord require of you?
Scientists try to prove Evolution over God, that don't give us the right to condemn the Scientist nor call Hawkin a MadMan!! you can just compare him to the word of God
The man just doing what he was born to do.agreed that is to call your lord a liar..ent Jesus knew Judas was going to betray him?? Then why would Jesus sit and have Suppa with Judas, and not condemn/kill him??
Jesus knows that anyone not receiving him will face eternal death
you know this too would you forsake your job as a Christian for fear of offending someone?



Tell me something Megadoc1, after all the Scriptures that you, Bluefete and others (myself) posted from the Bible, did Mg Man, Duane, Kasey and others accepted Christ yet?
it don't look so but that aint mean we should stop[
should we quit preaching the word of God because no one appears to be listening?


Are you going to get a Bator and beat them until they believe in Christ?
I think you strayed far enough from the bible

We did what we can, it's up to them to accept or reject! Who wants to bash Christianity, LEAVE THEM BE!! Throwing Fire back will not solve NOTHING!
You and other Christians know exactly that Jesus would not do that, so don't fight back! by chance can you explain how we are fighting back?

You fight back when people attack Christianity! If someone from another religion attacks you for what ever reason...do not bother to fight back...just keep preaching for the Lord!

I will not forsake my job as a Christian for no Human!! I preach to anyone and tell them about Jesus...if they don't want to believe me that's fine, everything wll be in the hands of God!

[toyo682]

Can the great theologians of this tread tell me how we have misunderstood these verses and also what these verses really speak of....

just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”#1

For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”#2

This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. #3

“This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many,”#4

This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me#5

In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.#6

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!#7

Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”
16For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.#8

I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats of this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.#9

“I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.#10

just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep#11

The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again#12

Then one of them, named Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, spoke up, “You know nothing at all! 50You do not realize that it is better for you that one man die for the people than that the whole nation perish#13

Jesus replied, “The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. 24Very truly I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seed#14

31Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. 32And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” 33He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die#15

Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14You are my friends if you do what I command.#16

For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your ancestors, 19but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. 20He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake. 21Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God.#17

To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.
22“He committed no sin,
and no deceit was found in his mouth.”
23When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly. 24“He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.” 25For “you were like sheep going astray,” but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.#18

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin#19

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world#20

This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins#21

and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.#22

And they sang a new song, saying:
“You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased for God
members of every tribe and language and people and nation#23

I answered, “Sir, you know.”
And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb#24

All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world#25

1# The Holy Bible : Today's New International Version. 2005 (Mt 20:28). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
2# The Holy Bible : Today's New International Version. 2005 (Mk 10:45). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
3# The Holy Bible : Today's New International Version. 2005 (Mt 26:28). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
4# The Holy Bible : Today's New International Version. 2005 (Mk 14:24). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
5# The Holy Bible : Today's New International Version. 2005 (Lk 22:19). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
6# The Holy Bible : Today's New International Version. 2005 (Lk 22:20). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
7# The Holy Bible : Today's New International Version. 2005 (Jn 1:29). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
8# The Holy Bible : Today's New International Version. 2005 (Jn 3:14-17). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
9# The Holy Bible : Today's New International Version. 2005 (Jn 6:51). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
10# The Holy Bible : Today's New International Version. 2005 (Jn 10:11). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
11# The Holy Bible : Today's New International Version. 2005 (Jn 10:15). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
12# The Holy Bible : Today's New International Version. 2005 (Jn 10:17). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
13# The Holy Bible : Today's New International Version. 2005 (Jn 11:49-50). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
14# The Holy Bible : Today's New International Version. 2005 (Jn 12:23-24). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
15# The Holy Bible : Today's New International Version. 2005 (Jn 12:30-33). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
16# The Holy Bible : Today's New International Version. 2005 (Jn 15:13-14). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
17# The Holy Bible : Today's New International Version. 2005 (1 Pe 1:18-21). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
18# The Holy Bible : Today's New International Version. 2005 (1 Pe 2:21-25). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
19# The Holy Bible : Today's New International Version. 2005 (1 Jn 1:7). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
20# The Holy Bible : Today's New International Version. 2005 (1 Jn 2:2). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
21# The Holy Bible : Today's New International Version. 2005 (1 Jn 4:10). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
22# The Holy Bible : Today's New International Version. 2005 (Re 1:5-6). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
23# The Holy Bible : Today's New International Version. 2005 (Re 5:9). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
24# The Holy Bible : Today's New International Version. 2005 (Re 7:14). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
25# The Holy Bible : Today's New International Version. 2005 (Re 13:8). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.

[toyo682]

^ what's the significance in concentrating on Jesus' death?

His concept of salvation is based on the story of Jesus' death and resurrection, so he wants the discussion to focus on that... Rather like demanding that everyone in the discussion write in blue font as you feel most comfortable reading it.

And your concept of salvation seems to ignore a whole lot in order to support itself.

[illumin@ti]

IMHO it is not a 'loop hole' in the bible eh, its just how, man has interpreted what he saw (in the bible) and tried to understand. They have convenielty nitpicked phrases and blew them up making them the 'most important' parts in the bible, effectively ignoring the real message, which is really how to live your life.

This is not an attack on the bible's teachings, this is a discussion about some ppls arrogance and disrespect for other peoples cultures and religions.

Duck and toyo seem to think some ppl here are 'attacking' Christianity because of way some other individuals put forward theit points. THIS IS NOT A FOOTBALL MATCH, as D_SPIKE said, this has become a discussion to try and decypher why some closed minded cretins have utter disrespect for other religions.

AGAIN, NO ONE HAS A PROBLEM WITH CHRISTIANITY, OR ANY OTHER RELIGION, WE HAVE A PROBLEM OF YOU TELLING ME YOURS IS RIGHT AND MINE IS WRONG. JUST LIVE AND LET LIVE, AND STOP CONCENTRATING ON 0.00001% OF ALL THE BIBLES TEACHINGS.

EXACTLY! well said sir.

^^^ this has been said since bout page 50 and reposted at least ten times over.. these bess Xtians epitomise the very same thing their 'religion' denounces...

intolerant arrogant mooks

MOOKS! (thas just you mega)

[d spike]

Can the great theologians of this tread tell me how we have misunderstood these verses....

Great theologians, eh? If memory serves me right, only one fellah came here bragging about having a degree in theology - despite the fact that none of his posts reflected this - can't recall his name... perhaps you should ask him - he should have had a chance to look over his notes by now.

And your concept of salvation seems to ignore a whole lot in order to support itself.

I have not discussed 'my' concept of salvation here (only mentioned a few basic points, so I'm not sure how you could have formed an opinion of it, unless you have used large quantities of imagination, assumptions and guesswork), and I do not see the point of discussing it. It certainly isn't "my" concept either, as many accepted schools of thought maintain such a concept. The only thing being ignored here is your repeated needling me for information concerning my religious beliefs, which I hold as private. I still don't see why I must state my religious beliefs on a non-religious public forum designed for car enthusiasts to jaw on for fun when they wish to discuss stuff other than engines.
You certainly have not as yet given me a proper reason for me to change my mind on this - quite the opposite, though, for the narrow-minded, "shoot on sight" posts and those of certain others have only served to reaffirm my suspicions that my decision was the correct one.
What business is it of yours what I believe in, or what colour underwear I prefer?

The only tuners who seem to have a problem with my viewpoint are those few whom many have a problem with in turn, where bias and intolerance are concerned - two very unchristian attributes, I might add.

I will continue to voice my opinion (to which I am entitled) and take part in the discussions of the issues, already aplenty, in this thread (as do many others).

[switchblademaster]

jesus came to save humans not the others so they not important(astigfirallah).... gimme ah break

i was by some people talkin, and a maribone ( some type of wasp) was buzzin round me and was on my hand some times. the lady was like 'kill it' and i was like 'why' and she was like ' it go bite yuh' and is was like 'it eh bite meh yet'
and i like watching dis ting crawl on me hand and fingers.
the children wanted me to kill it and was gathering slippers to do so, but desisted because i did not make it move from my hand, so they cannot be impolite and kill it by hitting me.

ting flew off with out stinging me, but it did bite now and then

it amazes me how easily people want to kill, be it little insects, just to satisfy their own comfort levels. they dont care that those little creatures have life, they dont see that sometimes they would not harm. they are quick to extinguish their little lives because they can potentially cause some discomfort. they dont even realize that they pollinate the flowers of the plants assisting in their propagation.

a sect in india used to wear masks for the mere chance that they may inhale an insect and kill it.
where has the awareness and concern for the other beings on this planet gone, or what has caused this knowledge to dwindle?


people dont see past their noses and consider even less.

mamoo, the atheists brought up the situation about religion and care for the other non human inhabitants, that idea was avoided even when pressured, around pg 80 or so


i have learned that we should not cut down trees when they are in fruit and in flower, that in war we should be careful to preserve the food plants or incur sin, that the ants considered the actions of the prophets and made movements to protect them selves and the prophets..

the christians say that their god killed himself/son for them. they think that makes themselves above everything else. but they do not contemplate that a greater being considered a lesser being and tried to preserve it, and so they do not try to emulate that, as being a christian is not following in its footsteps, the footprints of which are found in their bible. but that the bible is not necessary, as one only needs to believe and that is all that matters. i believe that when one knows more, one has a greater responsibility to make use of that knowledge.

it is really refreshing to see there are ppl who posses this level of thinking out there. Whatever faith you follow definitely has instilled the one of the main qualities the the divine being requires one to possess which is humility. Compassion for those of lower conciseness.......

Too bad some ppl see every other living thing out there as soulless hence humans can do what they want to them (based on "faith"). They don't even understand the phycology involve in that kind of ignorance, to kill senseless. Common sense can tell you that it is wrong. According to Gandhi: Show me how you treat your animals and I will tell you how civilized you are........don't mean to offend anyone by quoting Gandhi.

But hey based on what I read on these past few pages being biased is a way to salvation. N ppl don't know to be bias one must posses a certain level of ignorance and in ignorance lies all that is dark and evil.........but hey I guess I am creating my own god by saying these things huh.

[toyo682]

Can the great theologians of this tread tell me how we have misunderstood these verses....

Great theologians, eh? If memory serves me right, only one fellah came here bragging about having a degree in theology - despite the fact that none of his posts reflected this - can't recall his name... perhaps you should ask him - he should have had a chance to look over his notes by now.

And your concept of salvation seems to ignore a whole lot in order to support itself.

I have not discussed 'my' concept of salvation here (only mentioned a few basic points, so I'm not sure how you could have formed an opinion of it, unless you have used large quantities of imagination, assumptions and guesswork), and I do not see the point of discussing it. It certainly isn't "my" concept either, as many accepted schools of thought maintain such a concept. The only thing being ignored here is your repeated needling me for information concerning my religious beliefs, which I hold as private. I still don't see why I must state my religious beliefs on a non-religious public forum designed for car enthusiasts to jaw on for fun when they wish to discuss stuff other than engines.
You certainly have not as yet given me a proper reason for me to change my mind on this - quite the opposite, though, for the narrow-minded, "shoot on sight" posts and those of certain others have only served to reaffirm my suspicions that my decision was the correct one.
What business is it of yours what I believe in, or what colour underwear I prefer?

The only tuners who seem to have a problem with my viewpoint are those few whom many have a problem with in turn, where bias and intolerance are concerned - two very unchristian attributes, I might add.

I will continue to voice my opinion (to which I am entitled) and take part in the discussions of the issues, already aplenty, in this thread (as do many others).

So why not keep your opinion to yourself, I think I have played fair. I have not only put my opinions on the table but have also show the scriptures that back my belief giving others a chance to show me where I am in error of interpreting these verses. You claim to teach Christianity well show me how your belief is formed so that I can understand, as we both know it won't change my mind but I would like to see how people come to these conclusions based on scripture. That dear sir is why I have been needling. I do not care for your opinion, if you do not care to show me how you have come to such a conclusion/opinion. You seem to think that you are not guilty of the because we/i say so mentality that you accuse others of having. How can one have a discussion on religion which includes Christianity and not discuss the death and resurrection of Christ including the catholic church that you have said that doc and I don't appreciate. Just like you there are many schools of thought that follow the beliefs I hold. So what makes you right about Christianity and me wrong. So if I am not asking to much voice your opinion on the death and resurrection of Christ and the bases for such and opinion as found in the scripture, that you say we misread. unless there is something to hide?

Oh how about telling me what to do with the scriptures I have posted....

[toyo682]

jesus came to save humans not the others so they not important(astigfirallah).... gimme ah break

i was by some people talkin, and a maribone ( some type of wasp) was buzzin round me and was on my hand some times. the lady was like 'kill it' and i was like 'why' and she was like ' it go bite yuh' and is was like 'it eh bite meh yet'
and i like watching dis ting crawl on me hand and fingers.
the children wanted me to kill it and was gathering slippers to do so, but desisted because i did not make it move from my hand, so they cannot be impolite and kill it by hitting me.

ting flew off with out stinging me, but it did bite now and then

it amazes me how easily people want to kill, be it little insects, just to satisfy their own comfort levels. they dont care that those little creatures have life, they dont see that sometimes they would not harm. they are quick to extinguish their little lives because they can potentially cause some discomfort. they dont even realize that they pollinate the flowers of the plants assisting in their propagation.

a sect in india used to wear masks for the mere chance that they may inhale an insect and kill it.
where has the awareness and concern for the other beings on this planet gone, or what has caused this knowledge to dwindle?


people dont see past their noses and consider even less.

mamoo, the atheists brought up the situation about religion and care for the other non human inhabitants, that idea was avoided even when pressured, around pg 80 or so


i have learned that we should not cut down trees when they are in fruit and in flower, that in war we should be careful to preserve the food plants or incur sin, that the ants considered the actions of the prophets and made movements to protect them selves and the prophets..

the christians say that their god killed himself/son for them. they think that makes themselves above everything else. but they do not contemplate that a greater being considered a lesser being and tried to preserve it, and so they do not try to emulate that, as being a christian is not following in its footsteps, the footprints of which are found in their bible. but that the bible is not necessary, as one only needs to believe and that is all that matters. i believe that when one knows more, one has a greater responsibility to make use of that knowledge.

So are you saying that all Christians are inhumane, do you know all of us personally?