The Religion Discussion

[d spike]

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[d spike]

ok but the children of Israel learnt that God created man in his own image and likeness, with that said if they wanted an image to help focus a human mind on God
wouldn't looking at each other be sufficient?
...For the children of Israel, yes... but is Judaism the only religion in the world? One day, you will think before you speak...


this is opposite to what God does,it is not what...

And this, Megadoc, is where most have a problem with you. No one has a problem with WHAT you believe, we have a problem with your dogmatic (and when you mix this with your ignorance and your internet-based uberChristianity, this becomes a filthy concoction) and intolerant approach.
What you really mean to say, is: "I believe that this is opposite to what God does...", for what you call knowledge is simply belief, not knowledge. You may know the bible, but you believe it what it says. Knowledge is about facts. Facts can be proven. (You and Duane will continue to thrash that out ) Belief is not about facts. Belief is about what you consider to be true DESPITE whatever the facts are.

Please, please, please... go to one of the more mature folks in your group who IS CAPABLE OF TEACHING, or better yet, find an accepted theologian WHO IS OF YOUR FAITH and make an effort to learn something, anything, about that which you believe. You are just making a mess of things for those who would wish to attract others to Jesus.

[d spike]

*appends kassey to ignore list*

Why? Because he didn't agree with you?
Or worse, because he quoted Gandhi?

What a mature response. He wasn't abusive or disrespectful.

[megadoc1]

we don't have a probably
and I cannot prove anything on tunner so you are right when you say
"I can't see megadoc1 proving his claims any time soon anyway."

my bad, I should have said "no one can see"
then you would be in error

why can't you prove it here? I just cantI thought you and your group were powerful!? still is any Christian is as long as they are aware of who they are


You have no proof so you DO have a "probably".
you are in error again I have proof ! please say it is you who have none

your beliefs in Christianity are PROBABLY right; according to you, Roman Catholics are PROBABLY wrong and Hindus and Muslims are PROBABLY wrong. According to them, you are PROBABLY wrong. You cannot prove otherwise ANYWHERE.you have proof of this ? you think you can show it here?

[megadoc1]

ok but the children of Israel learnt that God created man in his own image and likeness, with that said if they wanted an image to help focus a human mind on God
wouldn't looking at each other be sufficient?
...For the children of Israel, yes... but is Judaism the only religion in the world? One day, you will think before you speak...
d spike .... You said it is the same God ,so then whats the fuss about how they do it?


this is opposite to what God does,it is not what...

And this, Megadoc, is where most have a problem with you. No one has a problem with WHAT you believe, we have a problem with your dogmatic (and when you mix this with your ignorance and your internet-based uberChristianity, this becomes a filthy concoction) and intolerant approach.
What you really mean to say, is: "I believe that this is opposite to what God does...", for what you call knowledge is simply belief, not knowledge. You may know the bible, but you believe it what it says. Knowledge is about facts. Facts can be proven. (You and Duane will continue to thrash that out ) Belief is not about facts. Belief is about what you consider to be true DESPITE whatever the facts are. so when I step into the realm of experience based on my faith , where does that leave me ? not with facts? God allows for his word to be proven
what do we call it then,when it is proven true?

Please, please, please... go to one of the more mature folks in your group who IS CAPABLE OF TEACHING, or better yet, find an accepted theologian WHO IS OF YOUR FAITH and make an effort to learn something, you still think Jesus is a teaching? lol...anything, about that which you believe. You are just making a mess of things for those who would wish to attract others to Jesus.do you really mean to say that this is what you believe? ...but rest assured its a lie

as I recalled mr d spike all what you posted supposed to be fact right ?
you never claimed this is what you believe so what is it ?
you said your beliefs are not for public consumption
so if what you posted are facts where is the proof ?

[Kasey]

No one has a problem with WHAT you believe, we have a problem with your dogmatic (and when you mix this with your ignorance and your internet-based uberChristianity, this becomes a filthy concoction) and intolerant approach.

Rightfully said.

[QG]

WOW!!!!

[cacasplat3]

I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road.

i read this quote earlier, and it made me smile........but later today as i was cleaning the mud off my football shoes, it crossed my mind, and it dawned on me on how much this simple statement represents...........

[d spike]

as I recalled mr d spike all what you posted supposed to be fact right ?
Really? Where did you recall this from?

you never claimed this is what you believe so what is it ?
I specifically told YOU quite often that what I post is my OPINION... but as you never really read what I write...

you said your beliefs are not for public consumption
Wow! You actually understood something I wrote! Remarkable... I just wish your mind would attempt to wrap itself around other concepts I shared, instead of those about me.

so if what you posted are facts where is the proof ?
Where do you get your ideas from? This certainly isn't logic, kiddo. Just like with a chainsaw, I think you should receive some basic training before you attempt using this - you could hurt yourself. Opinion does not require proof.

Your experiences of things spiritual, no matter how moving or profound, are not facts. They are based on your beliefs, which in turn is based on faith - not knowledge.
Faith is the belief in that which cannot be proven. If your belief is based on facts, then faith is unnecessary. You can choose to disagree with this, but all that shows is your inability to grasp the concepts of faith, facts, knowledge and belief.

Now, while faith is based on belief, logic is directly linked to reality. If you cannot provide proof of an event...

why can't you prove it here? I just cantI

...then that stated inability to provide proof is, unfortunately, proof that you are unable to prove said event.

You cannot prove otherwise ANYWHERE.you have proof of this ? you think you can show it here?

...and you have just shown that here...

[d spike]

Megadoc, I posted this as a response to one of your rants about six months ago. As you seem to be unable to recall it, I will repost it:

My post is my opinion, you thick-headed chump.
You called me a liar, my young spud. I would like to know why, for what reason.
The fact remains that you CANNOT cope with intelligent rebuttal, far less being able to take part in intelligent dialogue - unintelligible diatribe is more your style.

Seriously, my opinion of this is that it is your opinion. Whether I agree with some, or all, or none of it, is for me to say if I wish. I have explained to you before, that my personal private beliefs are simply that, private. I see no point in stating my beliefs here as it will serve no purpose - it will neither change nor affect nor strengthen your, or anyone else's beliefs. If it does, then that person's faith structure would be extremely weak (to modify your belief because of something you read on the internet? Please!) and the very next wind that blows in their life will take them elsewhere.

You obviously can't (or don't wish to) read. What I think, is my affair, and I will choose if I wish to respond or not. I was responding to your crassness, not your ability to quote scripture. As I said before, I don't see the point of attempting discussion with someone who accuses me falsely, and then doesn't have the cojones to either explain himself or admit error.

To all the non-Christians reading these postings: I hope you all can differentiate between a Christian and a "fundamentalist Christian".
The problem with fundamentalism is that it can only accept absolutes - and Christianity supposedly teaches that God accepts the human condition, whatever efforts on our part are made, are sanctified and made perfect by him.
So a fundamentalist Christian is a contradiction - and in order for such a faith to exist, it must stress whatever scripture applies, while ignoring that which doesn't, or claiming some obscure rationale to evade the actual meaning of the script.
A fundamentalist takes the easy way out, believing in a sacred written formula, that once adhered to, will ensure salvation. And so the 'written' becomes more sacred than the living. The Pharisees were a perfect example of fundamentalism. The possibility of trial and error, of doubt, of a living, growing belief is pushed aside, despite the fact that our very lives reflect such a belief. They blindly stick to the "words of written revelation"... without any thought as to what exactly was the author writing about, how he felt, how he lived, and what he believed. They look for a "key" to unlock heaven's gates, not realising the error of this errand, missing life as it swirls around them - the very life that they were sent to be part of, not apart from...
We are all here to be part of something... something wonderful and good... and we are expected to spend our lives here attempting to attain this... not damn each other... or look for an easy way out on paper.

[megadoc1]

as I recalled mr d spike all what you posted supposed to be fact right ?
Really? Where did you recall this from?
I am asking you

you never claimed this is what you believe so what is it ?
I specifically told YOU quite often that what I post is my OPINION... but as you never really read what I write... good so there is no indication of it being fact

you said your beliefs are not for public consumption
Wow! You actually understood something I wrote! Remarkable... I just wish your mind would attempt to wrap itself around other concepts I shared, instead of those about me.
why should I? how would I know its truth? it is only your opinion

so if what you posted are facts where is the proof ?
Where do you get your ideas from? This certainly isn't logic, kiddo. Just like with a chainsaw, I think you should receive some basic training before you attempt using this - you could hurt yourself. Opinion does not require proof.it also does not require us to take it as truth

Your experiences of things spiritual, no matter how moving or profound, are not facts. They are based on your beliefs, which in turn is based on faith - not knowledge.
Faith is the belief in that which cannot be proven. If your belief is based on facts, then faith is unnecessary. You can choose to disagree with this, but all that shows is your inability to grasp the concepts of faith, facts, knowledge and belief. lol you have a lot to learn about faith in Jesus Christ your first step though is receiving him
again d spike lets hear what is your opinion on this
when something is proven true what do you call it ?
e.g the word of God says If I believe in Jesus
and I lay my hand on a sick person in his name (jesus), they shall recover
what if I try that and it does happen is it not true ? did I not prove God word as truth?
did I not move from faith to experience? should I be still hoping it is truth or should I go on to knowing it is?


Now, while faith is based on belief, logic is directly linked to reality. If you cannot provide proof of an event...

why can't you prove it here? I just cantI

...then that stated inability to provide proof is, unfortunately, proof that you are unable to prove said event. ha ha you real desperate the man want real life proof on the forums trinituner

You cannot prove otherwise ANYWHERE.you have proof of this ? you think you can show it here?

...and you have just shown that here...like if here on trinituner determines what is truth

[megadoc1]

Megadoc, I posted this as a response to one of your rants about six months ago. As you seem to be unable to recall it, I will repost it:

My post is my opinion, you thick-headed chump.
You called me a liar, my young spud. I would like to know why, for what reason.
The fact remains that you CANNOT cope with intelligent rebuttal, far less being able to take part in intelligent dialogue - unintelligible diatribe is more your style.

Seriously, my opinion of this is that it is your opinion. Whether I agree with some, or all, or none of it, is for me to say if I wish. I have explained to you before, that my personal private beliefs are simply that, private. I see no point in stating my beliefs here as it will serve no purpose - it will neither change nor affect nor strengthen your, or anyone else's beliefs. If it does, then that person's faith structure would be extremely weak (to modify your belief because of something you read on the internet? Please!) and the very next wind that blows in their life will take them elsewhere.

You obviously can't (or don't wish to) read. What I think, is my affair, and I will choose if I wish to respond or not. I was responding to your crassness, not your ability to quote scripture. As I said before, I don't see the point of attempting discussion with someone who accuses me falsely, and then doesn't have the cojones to either explain himself or admit error.

...................................* opinion alert*.........*opinion alert..............*opinion alert*..........................
To all the non-Christians reading these postings: I hope you all can differentiate between a Christian and a "fundamentalist Christian".
The problem with fundamentalism is that it can only accept absolutes - and Christianity supposedly teaches that God accepts the human condition, whatever efforts on our part are made, are sanctified and made perfect by him.
So a fundamentalist Christian is a contradiction - and in order for such a faith to exist, it must stress whatever scripture applies, while ignoring that which doesn't, or claiming some obscure rationale to evade the actual meaning of the script.
A fundamentalist takes the easy way out, believing in a sacred written formula, that once adhered to, will ensure salvation. And so the 'written' becomes more sacred than the living. The Pharisees were a perfect example of fundamentalism. The possibility of trial and error, of doubt, of a living, growing belief is pushed aside, despite the fact that our very lives reflect such a belief. They blindly stick to the "words of written revelation"... without any thought as to what exactly was the author writing about, how he felt, how he lived, and what he believed. They look for a "key" to unlock heaven's gates, not realising the error of this errand, missing life as it swirls around them - the very life that they were sent to be part of, not apart from...
We are all here to be part of something... something wonderful and good... and we are expected to spend our lives here attempting to attain this... not damn each other... or look for an easy way out on paper.

warning ....this is not truth this is not fact it is only the opinion of one and it is not known if he believes what he posted
why trust in something that the poster himself is not sure about?

[Kasey]

^^cause u urself not sure of what u believe in??

[Kasey]

megaduck, please be aware that normal size font is quite sufficient for us to read. There is something called 'netiquette'. Read up on this.

Anyway,
1) There's a difference between saying "i dont aggree with you", and saying "you're a liar".
2) There's a difference between saying "I believe in this", and saying "this is true".

Your approach is quite rude and disrespectful my good friend. Do you realise this?

[cacasplat3]

warning ....this is not truth this is not fact it is only the opinion of one and it is not known if he believes what he posted
why trust in something that the poster himself is not sure about?

by this statement i'll assume all the things you said previously are truth with evidence to prove it......things like Jesus dying on a cross and man is created by god?

[cacasplat3]

i have a few questions........
how can god have a son?
where was he when god was creating the earth?
where did this son come from, especially since its god's son, i assume god would have had some influence in his son's creation..........and why didn't he have another son, or daughter?
why would you send your only son to walk among man to show them a better way? why not just change all their minds? after all, people believe that god intervenes in their lives everyday.........

[toyo682]

Faith is the belief in that which cannot be proven.

Am I disagree, faith can be proven, while you see faith as something that cannot be proven, faith is actually believing what is yet to be proven.

For example, many each day put their faith in chairs. I guess many don't see it as exercising faith because of how often we do it but never the less it is. The notion is that the chair will hold you up when you sit on it. But until you sit on the chair you will not be able to prove that the chair is what it is and will do what it says it will do. We have faith that the chair will hold us up. Likewise a parachute we are told that it would keep us from splatting on the ground when we jump from high attitudes. Our faith in the parachute is proven when we act on what it says it will do, in other words it is what it says it is and will do what it says it will do. Need I go on...

Faith in God can be proven, once we come to the realization that God is who he is and will do what he says he will do. When someone is dying and doctors have given up and they hold on to the word of God and is healed, is their faith not proven? I guess you meant to say faith cannot be put in a test tube. Or is it that once you can't see it, it can't be proven to exist. Have you ever seen the wind, you have to be mad to answer yes, what we see are the effects of the wind. So what because we cannot see the wind does not exist. So what because we cannot see God he does not exist or cannot be proven, do not be mad, we can see and feel the effects of him working. Many around the world have proven their faith by trusting God's word, who are you to tell them that their faith is not proven or cannot be proven when it has been by so many before.

But that bring us to Duane's rant how can one claim to have the right one, surely other religions have tested their faith and proven it. yes they have, the answer lies in the message as I have said before the Bible's message is different from all other though some try to ignore that fact by focusing on similarities and ignoring the differences. That is like saying a b14 and C63 amg are the same because they have four doors and four tires. keep this in mind.

All the great injustices of history have been committed in the name of unchecked and unbridled “majority rule.” The late Senator James A. Reed, of Missouri, in one of the most forceful speeches ever delivered before the Senate, observed with great truth: “The majority crucified Jesus Christ; the majority burned the Christians at the stake; the majority established slavery; the majority jeered when Columbus said the world was round; the majority threw him into a dungeon for having discovered a new world; the majority cut off the ears of John Pym because he dared advocate the liberty of the press.” Not because most religions have similar teachings are they headed in the same direction.

[d spike]

as I recalled mr d spike all what you posted supposed to be fact right ?
Really? Where did you recall this from?

I am asking you

Good grief... you started by saying: "as I recalled", so I wanted to know where you recall me claiming my postings were facts. Good heavens, don't you even read what you yourself write?

you never claimed this is what you believe so what is it ?
I specifically told YOU quite often that what I post is my OPINION... but as you never really read what I write...

good so there is no indication of it being fact

How could opinion be fact??? (Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot that you think whatever your opinion is, is fact.)

you said your beliefs are not for public consumption
Wow! You actually understood something I wrote! Remarkable... I just wish your mind would attempt to wrap itself around other concepts I shared, instead of those about me.

why should I? how would I know its truth? it is only your opinion

I never said accept what I am saying as fact - that is not how it works. Someone puts forward an idea, and it is discussed. Your misconception of a discussion is that you say something and everyone accepts it as truth/fact... that's not a discussion, that's brain-washing...

so if what you posted are facts where is the proof ?
Where do you get your ideas from? This certainly isn't logic, kiddo. Just like with a chainsaw, I think you should receive some basic training before you attempt using this - you could hurt yourself. Opinion does not require proof.

it also does not require us to take it as truth

No one is asking anyone to take what I say as truth! It is just posted for discussion!!!!

I say again:
Your experiences of things spiritual, no matter how moving or profound, are not facts. They are based on your beliefs, which in turn is based on faith - not knowledge.
Faith is the belief in that which cannot be proven. If your belief is based on facts, then faith is unnecessary. You can choose to disagree with this, but all that shows is your inability to grasp the concepts of faith, facts, knowledge and belief.

Now, while faith is based on belief, logic is directly linked to reality. If you cannot provide proof of an event...

why can't you prove it here? I just cantI

...then that stated inability to provide proof is, unfortunately, proof that you are unable to prove said event. ha ha you real desperate the man want real life proof on the forums trinituner
My God, you really are hopeless. I am trying to show you how logic can work against you, in order for you to stop making an arse of yourself. I couldn't care less about whether you think you have proof or not of whatever it is that you claim to do.
I am speaking about 'proof' as clear, exposed facts - whether it's about miracles or your imaginary pet chicken, it doesn't matter.
Proof of any incident can be recorded and presented in a way that demonstrates clearly it is a fact. (Your inability to appreciate what a fact is, might easily explain your noncomprehension in this matter.)
You said that you cannot prove the matter here.
Yet, you ask for proof of this very inability. I am putting it to you, as politely as I can, that your statement is proof enough to prove your said inability.

You cannot prove otherwise ANYWHERE.you have proof of this ? you think you can show it here?

...and you have just shown that here...like if here on trinituner determines what is truth
"Here", as I used the word, was not a reference to Trinituner. I used it to refer to "at this point of the discussion". If you were any more dense, T&TEC would string wires on you.

[megadoc1]

yes so lets get back to how we get to God
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
If you desire eternal Life it comes thru faith in Jesus alone
faith +Jesus =everlasting life
faith + (insert anything else here)= separation from God

Ephesians 2:8-9 (New American Standard Bible)
8For by grace you have been saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.


you don't get into heaven by what you do; but rather by who you know
please I beg you guys get to know Jesus
not know about him but to know him personal like a friend
he promised this
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock:
if any man hear my voice, and open the door,
I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
open you hearts to Jesus

[16 cycles]

to m.doc and toyo - is the only life in the universe on earth?

[toyo682]

^^^ One can never be certain. Does it really matter?

[Alpha_2nr]

^I may be wrong, but I think 16cycles is asking from a biblical perspective.

[VexXx Dogg]

Did God write the bible and approve all its content?

The bible, as with ALL religious texts, was written by MAN, and will be subject to interpretation, exaggeration and fallacies.

Do you agree with this?

[16 cycles]

^I may be wrong, but I think 16cycles is asking from a biblical perspective.

on the nail...

[toyo682]

^I may be wrong, but I think 16cycles is asking from a biblical perspective.

on the nail...

From a Biblical perspective it is really not that different. The Bible is a book that deals with our relationship with God, in a physical sense it only deals with life here on earth except for the fact that it says that God created everything in the universe. As far as my knowledge goes it does not say there is life one other planets or there isn't. If when one speaks of life in the universe you are counting God, angels, demons etc well then yes the Bible does say there is other life in the universe. But my question still remains does it matte?

[16 cycles]

As far as my knowledge goes it does not say there is life one other planets or there isn't.

cool - alot of people ponder the question - life on other planets?....just thought i'd ask those familiar with the bible if the answer to such was in its contents...

would be nice if those familiar with other religious texts could give input on this Q

[cacasplat3]

if life on other planets is discovered.....a lot of religious teachings will now have ah big gaping hole in it.........

[MG Man]

they will find ways around it, the same way islam was invented 1500 years ago but has a clause that caters for all the years before

[Computerman]

if life on other planets is discovered.....a lot of religious teachings will now have ah big gaping hole in it.........

I have no doubt that biblical scholars will find (make up) something to 'plug' the hole!

But to answer 16 cycles question (from a biblical perspective). toyo682 is correct to ask "Does it matter?" The answer to that (from a biblical perspective) is firmly "No!" According to the Bible, the Earth is at the centre of creation. It was created first, then everyting else after (including our Sun, Moon and other stars). Man was created to rule over everything on earth. When the time comes to destroy the earth, everything else will also be destroyed (Sun, Moon and other stars). There is no specific reference in the Bible to any other life, on any other planet.

[cacasplat3]

no doubt that they will do this, but it would still show the need for an explanation, and it would show that most (if not all) well studied religious texts did not have definite reference to such things.......

if life on other planets is discovered.....a lot of religious teachings will now have ah big gaping hole in it.........

I have no doubt that biblical scholars will find (make up) something to 'plug' the hole!

they will find ways around it, the same way islam was invented 1500 years ago but has a clause that caters for all the years before