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Local Covid Anti-Vaxxers vs Studies Spammers

this is how we do it.......

Moderator: 3ne2nr Mods

So who won the pandemic debate?

Poll ended at August 3rd, 2023, 3:48 pm

Antivaxxers - Ah still alive! babylon cyah kill me!
6
43%
Covidians - Small pin does chook hard but it save the world.
6
43%
Me eh care - Allyuh keep arguing nah man, ah wining on dis bumper right here.
2
14%
 
Total votes: 14

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st7
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19 - 121683 (+412) cases, 3544 (+9) deaths, 21132 active, 97007 recovered in T&T

Postby st7 » February 20th, 2022, 6:34 pm

hover11 wrote:
st7 wrote:
redmanjp wrote:
sMASH wrote:2,924 people dead with only one shot? damn.


look at the first blue bar on top with the 669706. what does it say next to that? 1st dose or no doses.

unvaxxed make up most of the blue bar.


sufferers want to see what they want to see
Sufferer calling others sufferers...thats hilarious


u dont hear me begging for help at wits end or waiting for more govt handouts already sucking on their teets while bragging about making 'the most money' than everyone on here with a 2013 salary.

but i guess sufferers want to see what they want to see.

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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19 - 121683 (+412) cases, 3544 (+9) deaths, 21132 active, 97007 recovered in T&T

Postby adnj » February 20th, 2022, 6:59 pm

redmanjp wrote:
sMASH wrote:2,924 people dead with only one shot? damn.


look at the first blue bar on top with the 669706. what does it say next to that? 1st dose or no doses.

unvaxxed make up most of the blue bar.
And some natural immunity. It's just how that works.

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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19 - 121683 (+412) cases, 3544 (+9) deaths, 21132 active, 97007 recovered in T&T

Postby sMASH » February 20th, 2022, 8:38 pm

adnj wrote:
redmanjp wrote:
sMASH wrote:2,924 people dead with only one shot? damn.


look at the first blue bar on top with the 669706. what does it say next to that? 1st dose or no doses.

unvaxxed make up most of the blue bar.
And some natural immunity. It's just how that works.

dat is bull. not fully vaxed means partially, which is 1 jab. 2 jab is fully vaxed, and 0 jab is not vaxed.
allyuh playing with words to hide the data that people didnt survive the first jab.

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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19 - 121683 (+412) cases, 3544 (+9) deaths, 21132 active, 97007 recovered in T&T

Postby st7 » February 20th, 2022, 9:11 pm

i mean... they defined what not fully vaccinated means on every report - 1 dose or no doses.

it's right there. if you choosing to ignore it then this is some hover-level iq.

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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19 - 121683 (+412) cases, 3544 (+9) deaths, 21132 active, 97007 recovered in T&T

Postby matr1x » February 20th, 2022, 9:28 pm

You do know the figures are being cooked, right?

Ccovid deaths are being listed as aneurysms or heart attacks

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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19 - 121683 (+412) cases, 3544 (+9) deaths, 21132 active, 97007 recovered in T&T

Postby Kenjo » February 20th, 2022, 9:32 pm

matr1x wrote:You do know the figures are being cooked, right?

Ccovid deaths are being listed as aneurysms or heart attacks

Wait they reversed the numbers from you dead from COVID to you dead with COVID ?

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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19 - 121683 (+412) cases, 3544 (+9) deaths, 21132 active, 97007 recovered in T&T

Postby matr1x » February 20th, 2022, 9:44 pm

My father passed away a month and half ago due to covid. No heart condition or diabetes. Damages his knee and went to chaguanas health center. Later contracted covid. Was on oxygen for a week and change and passed away. On the death certificate said he passed away from a heart attack. Nothing about covid.


I have proof in hand that what is recorded is a lie. Talk nah.

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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19 - 121683 (+412) cases, 3544 (+9) deaths, 21132 active, 97007 recovered in T&T

Postby alfa » February 20th, 2022, 10:03 pm

matr1x wrote:You do know the figures are being cooked, right?

Ccovid deaths are being listed as aneurysms or heart attacks

Lemmie guess, you were in a secret meeting and that's all we need to know :roll:

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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19 - 121683 (+412) cases, 3544 (+9) deaths, 21132 active, 97007 recovered in T&T

Postby st7 » February 20th, 2022, 10:06 pm

matr1x wrote:My father passed away a month and half ago due to covid. No heart condition or diabetes. Damages his knee and went to chaguanas health center. Later contracted covid. Was on oxygen for a week and change and passed away. On the death certificate said he passed away from a heart attack. Nothing about covid.


I have proof in hand that what is recorded is a lie. Talk nah.


idk if to believe this. recently you mentioned something similar with someone else - a neighbour or something?

correct me if i'm wrong.

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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19 - 121683 (+412) cases, 3544 (+9) deaths, 21132 active, 97007 recovered in T&T

Postby sMASH » February 20th, 2022, 10:19 pm

st7 wrote:i mean... they defined what not fully vaccinated means on every report - 1 dose or no doses.

it's right there. if you choosing to ignore it then this is some hover-level iq.

not vaxed is no jab. not fully vaxed is partially vaxed.
how de france me, no covee jab, no intention of covee jab coudl be 'partially vaxed'?

it hadda have tr3 categories; vaxed, partially vaxed, unvaxed.
*rasclat dem say i partially vaxed....

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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19 - 121683 (+412) cases, 3544 (+9) deaths, 21132 active, 97007 recovered in T&T

Postby st7 » February 20th, 2022, 10:21 pm

where are you seeing partially vaxxed on the report?

it only says not fully vaxxed and it's defined what it means....

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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19 - 121683 (+412) cases, 3544 (+9) deaths, 21132 active, 97007 recovered in T&T

Postby matr1x » February 20th, 2022, 10:33 pm

st7 wrote:
matr1x wrote:My father passed away a month and half ago due to covid. No heart condition or diabetes. Damages his knee and went to chaguanas health center. Later contracted covid. Was on oxygen for a week and change and passed away. On the death certificate said he passed away from a heart attack. Nothing about covid.


I have proof in hand that what is recorded is a lie. Talk nah.


idk if to believe this. recently you mentioned something similar with someone else - a neighbour or something?

correct me if i'm wrong.


Yes. We have been discussing it at length. Both were at couva health facility. Same signature

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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19 - 121683 (+412) cases, 3544 (+9) deaths, 21132 active, 97007 recovered in T&T

Postby matr1x » February 20th, 2022, 10:35 pm

alfa wrote:
matr1x wrote:You do know the figures are being cooked, right?

Ccovid deaths are being listed as aneurysms or heart attacks

Lemmie guess, you were in a secret meeting and that's all we need to know :roll:



Seeing as how I have a death certificate to prove it.....

Allyuh killing ppl and making it look like accident

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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19 - 121683 (+412) cases, 3544 (+9) deaths, 21132 active, 97007 recovered in T&T

Postby Ripe Chenette » February 21st, 2022, 4:46 am

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/20/heal ... -data.html
CDC admits it withheld data from the public because it might have caused vaccine hesitancty.

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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19 - 121683 (+412) cases, 3544 (+9) deaths, 21132 active, 97007 recovered in T&T

Postby matr1x » February 21st, 2022, 6:13 am

*confused face*

So the CDC holds back information to prevent vaccine hesitancy by people who are concerned information was being manipulated?

This is why ppl should be avoiding the vaccines.
The same system that allowed cancer baby powder, is playing games.


I suspect the information held back was the testing. Africa was chosen because why put white ppl at risk?

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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19 - 121683 (+412) cases, 3544 (+9) deaths, 21132 active, 97007 recovered in T&T

Postby daring dragoon » February 21st, 2022, 6:25 am

Beware of false prophets

Matthew 7:15-20
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. ...


the fruits is the vaccine that was approved from the diseased tree.

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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19 - 121683 (+412) cases, 3544 (+9) deaths, 21132 active, 97007 recovered in T&T

Postby MaxPower » February 21st, 2022, 7:16 am

matr1x wrote:My father passed away a month and half ago due to covid. No heart condition or diabetes. Damages his knee and went to chaguanas health center. Later contracted covid. Was on oxygen for a week and change and passed away. On the death certificate said he passed away from a heart attack. Nothing about covid.


I have proof in hand that what is recorded is a lie. Talk nah.


Lol okay

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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19 - 121683 (+412) cases, 3544 (+9) deaths, 21132 active, 97007 recovered in T&T

Postby Kenjo » February 21st, 2022, 7:26 am

Ripe Chenette wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/20/health/covid-cdc-data.html
CDC admits it withheld data from the public because it might have caused vaccine hesitancty.

Anyone wants to copy and paste the entire article ?

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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19 - 121683 (+412) cases, 3544 (+9) deaths, 21132 active, 97007 recovered in T&T

Postby adnj » February 21st, 2022, 7:33 am

Kenjo wrote:
Ripe Chenette wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/20/health/covid-cdc-data.html
CDC admits it withheld data from the public because it might have caused vaccine hesitancty.

Anyone wants to copy and paste the entire article ?


The C.D.C. Isn’t Publishing Large Portions of the Covid Data It Collects

The agency has withheld critical data on boosters, hospitalizations and, until recently, wastewater analyses.

Read in app

[https://static01]Dr. David Kessler, chief science officer of the White House Covid-19 response team, and Dr. Rochelle Walensky, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, at a House Select Subcommittee in 2021. Credit... Pool photo by Amr Alfiky[https://static01]

Feb. 20, 2022

For more than a year, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has collected data on hospitalizations for Covid-19 in the United States and broken it down by age, race and vaccination status. But it has not made most of the information public.

When the C.D.C. published the first significant data on the effectiveness of boosters in adults younger than 65 two weeks ago, it left out the numbers for a huge portion of that population: 18- to 49-year-olds, the group least likely to benefit from extra shots, because the first two doses already left them well-protected.

The agency recently debuted a dashboard of wastewater data on its website that will be updated daily and might provide early signals of an oncoming surge of Covid cases. Some states and localities had been sharing wastewater information with the agency since the start of the pandemic, but it had never before released those findings.

Two full years into the pandemic, the agency leading the country’s response to the public health emergency has published only a tiny fraction of the data it has collected, several people familiar with the data said.

Much of the withheld information could help state and local health officials better target their efforts to bring the virus under control. Detailed, timely data on hospitalizations by age and race would help health officials identify and help the populations at highest risk. Information on hospitalizations and death by age and vaccination status would have helped inform whether healthy adults needed booster shots. And wastewater surveillance across the nation would spot outbreaks and emerging variants early.

Without the booster data for 18- to 49-year-olds, the outside experts whom federal health agencies look to for advice had to rely on numbers from Israel to make their recommendations on the shots.

Kristen Nordlund, a spokeswoman for the C.D.C., said the agency has been slow to release the different streams of data “because basically, at the end of the day, it’s not yet ready for prime time.” She said the agency’s “priority when gathering any data is to ensure that it’s accurate and actionable.”

Another reason is fear that the information might be misinterpreted, Ms. Nordlund said.

Dr. Daniel Jernigan, the agency’s deputy director for public health science and surveillance said the pandemic exposed the fact that data systems at the C.D.C., and at the state levels, are outmoded and not up to handling large volumes of data. C.D.C. scientists are trying to modernize the systems, he said.

“We want better, faster data that can lead to decision making and actions at all levels of public health, that can help us eliminate the lag in data that has held us back,” he added.

The C.D.C. also has multiple bureaucratic divisions that must sign off on important publications, and its officials must alert the Department of Health and Human Services — which oversees the agency — and the White House of their plans. The agency often shares data with states and partners before making data public. Those steps can add delays.

“The C.D.C. is a political organization as much as it is a public health organization,” said Samuel Scarpino, managing director of pathogen surveillance at the Rockefeller Foundation’s Pandemic Prevention Institute. “The steps that it takes to get something like this released are often well outside of the control of many of the scientists that work at the C.D.C.”

The performance of vaccines and boosters, particularly in younger adults, is among the most glaring omissions in data the C.D.C. has made public.

Last year, the agency repeatedly came under fire for not tracking so-called breakthrough infections in vaccinated Americans, and focusing only on individuals who became ill enough to be hospitalized or die. The agency presented that information as risk comparisons with unvaccinated adults, rather than provide timely snapshots of hospitalized patients stratified by age, sex, race and vaccination status.

[https://static01]President Biden joined a virtual meeting with the White House Covid-19 Response Team in December.  Credit... Cheriss May for The New York Times

But the C.D.C. has been routinely collecting information since the Covid vaccines were first rolled out last year, according to a federal official familiar with the effort. The agency has been reluctant to make those figures public, the official said, because they might be misinterpreted as the vaccines being ineffective.

Ms. Nordlund confirmed that as one of the reasons. Another reason, she said, is that the data represents only 10 percent of the population of the United States. But the C.D.C. has relied on the same level of sampling to track influenza for years.

Some outside public health experts were stunned to hear that information exists.

“We have been begging for that sort of granularity of data for two years,” said Jessica Malaty Rivera, an epidemiologist and part of the team that ran Covid Tracking Project, an independent effort that compiled data on the pandemic till March 2021.

A detailed analysis, she said, “builds public trust, and it paints a much clearer picture of what’s actually going on.”

Concern about the misinterpretation of hospitalization data broken down by vaccination status is not unique to the C.D.C. On Thursday, public health officials in Scotland said they would stop releasing data on Covid hospitalizations and deaths by vaccination status because of similar fears that the figures would be misrepresented by anti-vaccine groups.

But the experts dismissed the potential misuse or misinterpretation of data as an acceptable reason for not releasing it.

“We are at a much greater risk of misinterpreting the data with data vacuums, than sharing the data with proper science, communication and caveats,” Ms. Rivera said.

When the Delta variant caused an outbreak in Massachusetts last summer, the fact that three-quarters of those infected were vaccinated led people to mistakenly conclude that the vaccines were powerless against the virus — validating the C.D.C.’s concerns.

But that could have been avoided if the agency had educated the public from the start that as more people are vaccinated, the percentage of vaccinated people who are infected or hospitalized would also rise, public health experts said.

“Tell the truth, present the data,” said Dr. Paul Offit, a vaccine expert and adviser to the Food and Drug Administration. “I have to believe that there is a way to explain these things so people can understand it.”

Knowing which groups of people were being hospitalized in the United States, which other conditions those patients may have had and how vaccines changed the picture over time would have been invaluable, Dr. Offit said.

Relying on Israeli data to make booster recommendations for Americans was less than ideal, Dr. Offit noted. Israel defines severe disease differently than the United States, among other factors.

“There’s no reason that they should be better at collecting and putting forth data than we were,” Dr. Offit said of Israeli scientists. “The C.D.C. is the principal epidemiological agency in this country, and so you would like to think the data came from them.”

It has also been difficult to find C.D.C. data on the proportion of children hospitalized for Covid who have other medical conditions, said Dr. Yvonne Maldonado, chair of the American Academy of Pediatrics’s Committee on Infectious Diseases.

The academy’s staff asked their partners at the C.D.C. for that information on a call in December, according to a spokeswoman for the A.A.P., and were told it was unavailable.

The Coronavirus Pandemic: Key Things to Know

Card 1 of 3

Queen Elizabeth tests positive. The 95-year-old British monarch has been infected with the coronavirus and is “experiencing mild coldlike symptoms,” Buckingham Palace said. The announcement comes as Prime Minister Boris Johnson is poised to lift England’s remaining Covid restrictions.

C.D.C. data. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has published only a tiny fraction of the Covid data it has collected, including critical data on boosters and hospitalizations, citing incomplete reports or fears of misinterpretation. Critics say the practice causes confusion.

The virus in the U.S. Cases continue to drop nationwide, including in New York, where the latest data offered some optimism after a challenging year. Gov. Gavin Newsom of California and other U.S. governors are shifting to policies that accept living with uncertainty over possible new variants.

Ms. Nordlund pointed to data on the agency’s website that includes this information, and to multiple published reports on pediatric hospitalizations with information on children who have other health conditions.

The pediatrics academy has repeatedly asked the C.D.C. for an estimate on the contagiousness of a person infected with the coronavirus five days after symptoms begin — but Dr. Maldonado finally got the answer from an article in The New York Times in December.

“They’ve known this for over a year and a half, right, and they haven’t told us,” she said. “I mean, you can’t find out anything from them.”

Experts in wastewater analysis were more understanding of the C.D.C.’s slow pace of making that data public. The C.D.C. has been building the wastewater system since September 2020, and the capacity to present the data over the past few months, Ms. Nordlund said. In the meantime, the C.D.C.’s state partners have had access to the data, she said.

Despite the cautious preparation, the C.D.C. released the wastewater data a week later than planned. The Covid Data Tracker is updated only on Thursdays, and the day before the original release date, the scientists who manage the tracker realized they needed more time to integrate the data.

“It wasn’t because the data wasn’t ready, it was because the systems and how it physically displayed on the page wasn’t working the way that they wanted it to,” Ms. Nordlund said.

The C.D.C. has received more than $1 billion to modernize its systems, which may help pick up the pace, Ms. Nordlund said. “We’re working on that,” she said.

The agency’s public dashboard now has data from 31 states. Eight of those states, including Utah, began sending their figures to the C.D.C. in the fall of 2020. Some relied on scientists volunteering their expertise; others paid private companies. But many others, such as Mississippi, New Mexico and North Dakota, have yet to begin tracking wastewater.

Utah’s fledgling program in April 2020 has now grown to cover 88 percent of the state’s population, with samples being collected twice a week, according to Nathan LaCross, who manages Utah’s wastewater surveillance program.

Wastewater data reflects the presence of the virus in an entire community, so it is not plagued by the privacy concerns attached to medical information that would normally complicate data release, experts said.

“There are a bunch of very important and substantive legal and ethical challenges that don’t exist for wastewater data,” Dr. Scarpino said. “That lowered bar should certainly mean that data could flow faster.”

Tracking wastewater can help identify areas experiencing a high burden of cases early, Dr. LaCross said. That allows officials to better allocate resources like mobile testing teams and testing sites.

Wastewater is also a much faster and more reliable barometer of the spread of the virus than the number of cases or positive tests. Well before the nation became aware of the Delta variant, for example, scientists who track wastewater had seen its rise and alerted the C.D.C., Dr. Scarpino said. They did so in early May, just before the agency famously said vaccinated people could take off their masks.

Even now, the agency is relying on a technique that captures the amount of virus, but not the different variants in the mix, said Mariana Matus, chief executive officer of BioBot Analytics, which specializes in wastewater analysis. That will make it difficult for the agency to spot and respond to outbreaks of new variants in a timely manner, she said.

“It gets really exhausting when you see the private sector working faster than the premier public health agency of the world,” Ms. Rivera said.

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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19 - 121683 (+412) cases, 3544 (+9) deaths, 21132 active, 97007 recovered in T&T

Postby Carbon12 » February 21st, 2022, 8:35 am

[youtube] https://youtu.be/XCciAJJMt9Q [/youtube]

Whatever you do with any information, solely should be your choices and your right to choose, especially for an emergency use situation.

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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19 - 121683 (+412) cases, 3544 (+9) deaths, 21132 active, 97007 recovered in T&T

Postby Mmoney607 » February 21st, 2022, 10:25 am

Adnj, are your thoughts on covid and the vaccine changing with this "new" information coming to hand?

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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19 - 121683 (+412) cases, 3544 (+9) deaths, 21132 active, 97007 recovered in T&T

Postby ed360123 » February 21st, 2022, 10:28 am

matr1x wrote:*confused face*

So the CDC holds back information to prevent vaccine hesitancy by people who are concerned information was being manipulated?

This is why ppl should be avoiding the vaccines.
The same system that allowed cancer baby powder, is playing games.


I suspect the information held back was the testing. Africa was chosen because why put white ppl at risk?
What do you mean 'Africa was chosen'? most of vaccine trials took place outside of Africa.

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Re: Local anti-vaxxers

Postby aaron17 » February 21st, 2022, 10:34 am

Why Bill Gates sad?

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Re: Local anti-vaxxers

Postby dogg » February 21st, 2022, 11:18 am

e2589h9ze2j81.jpg

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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19 - 121683 (+412) cases, 3544 (+9) deaths, 21132 active, 97007 recovered in T&T

Postby adnj » February 21st, 2022, 11:33 am

Mmoney607 wrote:Adnj, are your thoughts on covid and the vaccine changing with this "new" information coming to hand?
ed360123 wrote:
matr1x wrote:*confused face*

So the CDC holds back information to prevent vaccine hesitancy by people who are concerned information was being manipulated?

This is why ppl should be avoiding the vaccines.
The same system that allowed cancer baby powder, is playing games.


I suspect the information held back was the testing. Africa was chosen because why put white ppl at risk?
What do you mean 'Africa was chosen'? most of vaccine trials took place outside of Africa.
Some people tend to lack critical thinking skills and see what they want.

-------

"Concern about the misinterpretation of hospitalization data broken down by vaccination status is not unique to the C.D.C. On Thursday, public health officials in Scotland said they would stop releasing data on Covid hospitalizations and deaths by vaccination status because of similar fears that the figures would be misrepresented by anti-vaccine groups.

But the experts dismissed the potential misuse or misinterpretation of data as an acceptable reason for not releasing it.

“We are at a much greater risk of misinterpreting the data with data vacuums, than sharing the data with proper science, communication and caveats,” Ms. Rivera said."

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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19 - 121683 (+412) cases, 3544 (+9) deaths, 21132 active, 97007 recovered in T&T

Postby Redman » February 21st, 2022, 12:01 pm

It is telling tha for the extent of this pandemic-information has been provided,from the authorities
Early on any questioning of the narrative was immediately dealt with,-upto and including banning and delegitimization.

'See the data-look here is the proof- dont argue with science'


As soon as the data feeds start showing that the narrative was off -and that the confidence misplaced, we find ourselves with 'science changing' and data with held because of 'misinterpretation'

Scotland was fine until the graphs began showing that the benefits of taking the vaxx were marginal.

The data can only be misinterpreted when it begins to erode the narrative.

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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19 - 121683 (+412) cases, 3544 (+9) deaths, 21132 active, 97007 recovered in T&T

Postby Kenjo » February 21st, 2022, 12:26 pm

ed360123 wrote:
matr1x wrote:*confused face*

So the CDC holds back information to prevent vaccine hesitancy by people who are concerned information was being manipulated?

This is why ppl should be avoiding the vaccines.
The same system that allowed cancer baby powder, is playing games.


I suspect the information held back was the testing. Africa was chosen because why put white ppl at risk?
What do you mean 'Africa was chosen'? most of vaccine trials took place outside of Africa.

Yup from Early the African countries said not one tail of that …. Trails nope no nada . I think it was two French scientists or something from 2020 so men giving wrong info in here for sure

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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19 - 121683 (+412) cases, 3544 (+9) deaths, 21132 active, 97007 recovered in T&T

Postby matr1x » February 21st, 2022, 1:05 pm

France has had a stranglehold over former colonies. Bet your bottom dollar they tested in Africa

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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19 - 121683 (+412) cases, 3544 (+9) deaths, 21132 active, 97007 recovered in T&T

Postby sMASH » February 21st, 2022, 1:51 pm

dem want to mandate all kinda opression, and them ketchin covee all over. is either they not following their own rules, or the rules they implementing dont work. either way, we need to go back to normal, and not penalize anyone for not being a coveesheep.

Kenjo
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Re: Coronavirus - COVID-19 - 121683 (+412) cases, 3544 (+9) deaths, 21132 active, 97007 recovered in T&T

Postby Kenjo » February 21st, 2022, 1:58 pm

sMASH wrote:dem want to mandate all kinda opression, and them ketchin covee all over. is either they not following their own rules, or the rules they implementing dont work. either way, we need to go back to normal, and not penalize anyone for not being a coveesheep.

We aren’t already mostly back to normal except masks ?

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