The Religion Discussion

[toyo682]

Doesn't this bother you, don't you want to know how you will fear, to ensure that you make it. Does this sound like one of them timeshare scams, you only find out you are screwed when you get there.

Oh so you are scared, weak and insecure so you use religion to comfort you? Now I understand.

Understand what that I have realized that I am a sinful man and deserve death, from which God has by his mercy has redeem me? But I guess you are with out sin so good for you...

[toyo682]

We each follow a path of our own choosing... to be derided or abused for our choice interferes with our ability to choose - if the true God gave us the ability to choose freely, who is this mortal to interfere and harass us?

(1)Did God give us a choice as to which way to reach him. Or a choice to love or reject him?

(2)If the former where did he say this?

(3)Is this what the Bible teaches?

So is worshiping the mango tree in my backyard an acceptable way to reach God?

Can I answer this? Oh and for clarity, please state your questions in a numbered fashion like I have done, so that us illiterate readers can view plainly.

(1) If I choose a way to God I believe that I already seek interest in him (love him?), so the latter question is already answered. Example, if I goin buy a bottle of puncheon in the rumshop, I can take any road (because I want puncheon!). bUT what is the reason for going (taking a path) if I do not want puncheon? If u take a path to reach God (Hindu, Muslim, Christian), you already love him / be with him (or want to love him / be with him)
(2) You confuse your words. I do not understand

(3) I do know if the Bible teaches this, but the Ramayan teaches this. i.e. there is more than one path to God.

wrt other religions, islam teaches that messengers came to many peoples at various times. they sent messages to meant for those people for a time period. the central theme of all the messages is that god is one, but small details would have differed. after the time period for those message have served their purposes, protection over them was relinquished, and men modified them to suit their own desires, and the originals were not allowed to continue to exist. the final revelation was the qu'ran, and that is what man should follow.This contradicts what you have written below, if the qu'ran is the final revelation and what man should follow, then there is no room for finding better.

god made most people with brains and some with the ability to observe, think, and consider for them selves. they are to evaluate if what they put their faith in worth putting their faith in, in that, most people have an inherent understanding of good/bad, right/wrong, is worth putting their faith in.
all major religions teach basic ethical concepts so one can be a 'good' person. but when presented with another way, it is up to them to consider if what they come across is better than what they have.If all is the same then there should be none better. Or are you trying to say some parts are easier than others?

so, this is between u and god. u do the best with what u have. if u encounter islam, investigate it. if u see the signs it shows and think it makes more sense, follow it. if u think what u already have is better, then stick to it,

u can still be doing things which please god even if u don't do every thing which pleases god.

.. oh yeah, and the incentive to not do any thing u want; judgment day. where ur good and bad would be accounted for. (yes, judgment day is real, and has a purpose, and is not a farce)
god is all powerful, he will bless what he wants, forgive what he wants and condemn what he wants, we just have an idea as to what he would like us to do and not to do.

So should we call him Allah, Shiva, Buddha or all are fine. does this not contradict the god is one?

No kalpat. My name is "Kamla Bissessar", I am "Kamla", I am "Mrs Bissessar", I am "Mummy", I am "Sister", I am "accountant", I am captain of a cricket team (So I am "Captain"), I am "Daughter", I am "Tigress" (in bed), etc. You get the point. Depending on the circles I am in my peers / associates will see and call me a different name.

Am I plural?

Explain this in light of what you have said and all religions being the same.

"You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; Exodus 20 4-5.

[toyo682]

No kalpat. My name is "Kamla Bissessar", I am "Kamla", I am "Mrs Bissessar", I am "Mummy", I am "Sister", I am "accountant", I am captain of a cricket team (So I am "Captain"), I am "Daughter", I am "Tigress" (in bed), etc. You get the point. Depending on the circles I am in my peers / associates will see and call me a different name.

Am I plural?

This works well in the natural world but we are talking about the spiritual. If God is what he has created, then if I worship my self as god he will not have a problem with that... just as your wife, husband banging someone else, pretending that they are you, would not bother the sane.

[sMASH]

conforming, probably not the best phrase i used. u actually think about ur existence and purpose, or did at a point in time, instead of going with what ever u grew up with. but, i am now making assumptions about ur experiences. next ting u grew up just like this, and goin with the flow.

i have read things and seen some which leads me to believe this is THE way, but u have not and no amount of harassment or enticement could lure u towards it.

if u dont think this is the way, then u dont. u have the right to follow what u want, and duty to make sure it is worthwhile, i have the duty to inform u, and the restriction to not coerce u. i not condemning u to hell, nor assigning u to heaven, it is not my place,,, i cant even say for myself, if i am realizing my full potential.

[megadoc1]

the qur'an does not convert any body. it is a book about people, life, society, nature, and how we should interact with them.

one can, and many have, read the quran and have been inspired by it and came to islam

why that cannot be considered as a conversion?

so, why mek ah book, if it unnecessary?

when I posted that the bible was for those who are begotten of the spirit of God
and that it is a written covenant between God and the believer in Jesus Christ
and that "studying" it without the spirit of God is a waste of time
you had a lot to say

so, why mek ah book, if it unnecessary?

remember?even duane thought these books did the conversion

Are you then saying that the Bible is hopeless in converting a Hindu, Muslim, Jews to Christianity? AFAIK the Gita, Qu'ran and Torah are the epitome of proving its own religion as true and the best reading to make believers of the disbelievers. Are you claiming the bible is weaker than these other texts?

you did not even say a word then how come? why did you allow this "misunderstanding" to take place?

[Kasey]

Explain this in light of what you have said and all religions being the same.

"You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; Exodus 20 4-5.

First of all, I never said all religions are the same. I only AGGREE that all religions preach to worship God, to be a good person to everyone, and help when you can.....in a nutshell.......... I cool with that.

About the quote, I dont know of anyone bowing down and worshipping idols.

No kalpat. My name is "Kamla Bissessar", I am "Kamla", I am "Mrs Bissessar", I am "Mummy", I am "Sister", I am "accountant", I am captain of a cricket team (So I am "Captain"), I am "Daughter", I am "Tigress" (in bed), etc. You get the point. Depending on the circles I am in my peers / associates will see and call me a different name.

Am I plural?

This works well in the natural world but we are talking about the spiritual. If God is what he has created, than if I worship my self as god he will not have a problem with that... just as your wife, husband banging some else, pretend that they are you would not bother the sane.

Ammm.....what?? Ur english needs a bit of work. Anyway, we are living in the physical world, not the spiritual. The way we worship is physical (through our thoughts) the way we think is physical (chemical reactions in our brain). We, by nature, asociate what we think with images, hence the reason for the sense of sight. So we can see where we are going.

Oh yeah and you have no authority to say what God will have a problem with and what will not, what God will like or dislikes (you are limiting God to what you think he/she or it is). Just cause a book say so, it doesnt have to be so. God could have a problem with you posting that.

[megadoc1]

Oh yeah and you have no authority to say what God will have a problem with and what will not, what God will like or dislikes (you are limiting God to what you think he/she or it is). Just cause a book say so, it doesnt have to be so.

God could have a problem with you posting that.

[Kasey]

Yes he/she/it could too!! No limits.

[Alpha_2nr]

God could have a problem with you posting that.

God reads Trinituner Ole Talk?

[QG]

qg, what u talkin about is an implied idea, where the statement suggests an idea. but when u have definite statements like this, what u goin to follow?

"He is God, the One God Independent and sought by all; He begets not, nor is begotten, and there is none like unto Him" (The Holy Qur 'an - Chapter 112 - Al-Ikhlas)

'O people of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion, nor utter anything concerning God save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of God, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and His messengers, and do not say 'Three'. Desist, it will be better for you. God is only One God. . . . The Messiah would never have scorned to be a slave of God.' (Surat al-Nisa, 171-2)

iiiii say is majestic plural. *spike goin an come dong on meh case now wit he research*

....hmm, an idea.

But to clear one thing up, we Christians believe in one God!

[d spike]

lets not limit God to a conversation.....

d spike it seems all your knowledge and logic on this matter is limited to a conversation

So what other form of communication is there among men other than conversing?

check out meh sig

As cute as that may be, it still doesn't answer my question.

then nothing will

Toyo, perhaps you could explain this different form of communication, as you seem to speak Megadoc's language.
What else does one do in a discussion other than communicate via conversation?
What does he mean? This is a discussion on the internet... what does he have in mind?
Are we to use telepathy? (If so, then that will explain a lot about his posts...)

[toyo682]

First of all, I never said all religions are the same. I only AGGREE that all religions preach to worship God, to be a good person to everyone, and help when you can.....in a nutshell.......... I cool with that.

About the quote, I dont know of anyone bowing down and worshipping idols.
How do we know that it is the same god?
Oh yeah and you have no authority to say what God will have a problem with and what will not, what God will like or dislikes (you are limiting God to what you think he/she or it is). Just cause a book say so, it doesnt have to be so. God could have a problem with you posting that.

You are right I don't have any authority, but the word of God does, unless one wants to believe that this God of love has never tried to reach out to the creation in a definite way. If the Bible is what it says it is then its message should be heeded.

What is blowing me away about this discussion is the fact that people would rather work for the love of God than receive it freely.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

If the Bible is what it says it is then its message should be heeded.

seriously? is that your logic? then if the Qu'ran is what it says it is then its message should be heeded and if the Gita is what it says it is then its message should be heeded and if the Torah is what it says it is then its message should be heeded...

not so?

can you all go and find someone who can put forward a decent argument FOR your claims so that we can have a worthwhile discussion instead of this illogical nonsense that is not being thought through properly by you?

[d spike]

About the quote, I dont know of anyone bowing down and worshipping idols.
How do we know that it is the same god?

Wait... are you saying that there is more than one deity????
Toyo, make up your mind... either you are a monotheist, or you aren't.

[illumin@ti]

If the Bible is what it says it is then its message should be heeded.

seriously? is that your logic? then if the Qu'ran is what it says it is then its message should be heeded and if the Gita is what it says it is then its message should be heeded and if the Torah is what it says it is then its message should be heeded...

not so?

can you all go and find someone who can put forward a decent argument FOR your claims so that we can have a worthwhile discussion instead of this illogical nonsense that is not being thought through properly by you?

nope, they gonna come with the ignorant posture of "what the bible says is greater than aaaaaaallllllllllll esle. Screw your beliefs. My God pwns all"

[megadoc1]

If the Bible is what it says it is then its message should be heeded.

seriously? is that your logic? then if the Qu'ran is what it says it is then its message should be heeded and if the Gita is what it says it is then its message should be heeded and if the Torah is what it says it is then its message should be heeded... yes but all cannot be truth at the same time
not so?(based on the law of contradiction) only one can be heeded because only one can be true

can you all go and find someone who can put forward a decent argument FOR your claims so that we can have a worthwhile discussion instead of this illogical nonsense that is not being thought through properly by you? the only thing thats illogical is you trying convince us that all the religions are true

[megadoc1]

About the quote, I dont know of anyone bowing down and worshipping idols.
How do we know that it is the same god?

Wait... are you saying that there is more than one deity????
Toyo, make up your mind... either you are a monotheist, or you aren't.

allyuh gone back with these small tricks again
the man was saying that all religions teach about god (it came from the same questions you avoided)
toyo was simply asking him how do we know it is the same god?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

yes but all cannot be truth at the same time

can you prove which one is?

the only thing thats illogical is you trying convince us that all the religions are true

I never said all are true, I only said that we don't know which one, if any, are true and you cannot claim yours is more right because you have no proof.

I keep repeating that, but I hope you will eventually understand it.

[cacasplat3]

About the quote, I dont know of anyone bowing down and worshipping idols.
How do we know that it is the same god?

Wait... are you saying that there is more than one deity????
Toyo, make up your mind... either you are a monotheist, or you aren't.

while toyo said this.......mdoc1 agreed with this:

i'm going to modify a question i previously posted......
if a couple generations of children are born, and no religious teachings are ever allowed to fall onto them, however, the children are allowed to mature and understand the past and present, but never know of religion......do you think that eventually, one will start asking the others why are we here? where do we go after we die? and then somehow one will come up the concept of a "higher power"..........? the fact that we have religions shows that this do happen
do you agree? so you agree with the point that the human mind created the concept of a "higher power"?(read: god)

yes the human mind is capable of theses things

seems like they have no idea what they are talking about.......

[megadoc1]

yes but all cannot be truth at the same time

can you prove which one is? yes

the only thing thats illogical is you trying convince us that all the religions are true

I never said all are true, I only said that we don't know which one, you don't know which one is true yuh not even gonna try to find out if any, are true and you cannot claim yours is more right because you have no proof.
we have proof we also found out that you not gonna look at it any time soon

I keep repeating that, but I hope you will eventually understand it.
you keep repeating something you not gonna step up to

[megadoc1]

About the quote, I dont know of anyone bowing down and worshipping idols.
How do we know that it is the same god?

Wait... are you saying that there is more than one deity????
Toyo, make up your mind... either you are a monotheist, or you aren't.

while toyo said this.......mdoc1 agreed with this:

i'm going to modify a question i previously posted......
if a couple generations of children are born, and no religious teachings are ever allowed to fall onto them, however, the children are allowed to mature and understand the past and present, but never know of religion......do you think that eventually, one will start asking the others why are we here? where do we go after we die? and then somehow one will come up the concept of a "higher power"..........? the fact that we have religions shows that this do happen
do you agree? so you agree with the point that the human mind created the concept of a "higher power"?(read: god)

yes the human mind is capable of theses things

seems like they have no idea what they are talking about.......
seems like you have no idea what you and I were talking about
but I know better lets stop with the silly tricks nuh

[cacasplat3]

About the quote, I dont know of anyone bowing down and worshipping idols.
How do we know that it is the same god?

Wait... are you saying that there is more than one deity????
Toyo, make up your mind... either you are a monotheist, or you aren't.

while toyo said this.......mdoc1 agreed with this:

i'm going to modify a question i previously posted......
if a couple generations of children are born, and no religious teachings are ever allowed to fall onto them, however, the children are allowed to mature and understand the past and present, but never know of religion......do you think that eventually, one will start asking the others why are we here? where do we go after we die? and then somehow one will come up the concept of a "higher power"..........? the fact that we have religions shows that this do happen
do you agree? so you agree with the point that the human mind created the concept of a "higher power"?(read: god)

yes the human mind is capable of theses things

seems like they have no idea what they are talking about.......
seems like you have no idea what you and I were talking about
but I know better lets stop with the silly tricks nuh

look....if u want to be part of the discussion......be part of it like a man, do not accuse me of wrongdoing when you cannot account for your own words..............there is no trickery on my part. i asked a question, u answered. i asked another question again to confirm, u replied positively........where the trickery? the only trickery taking place here is done by you..........for instance:

seem like we are in the same boat just that I have proven what I believe is right

where and when did you prove, in this discussion, what you believe in is right?
this is the trickery you should concern yourself with.............

[megadoc1]

look....if u want to be part of the discussion......be part of it like a man, do not accuse me of wrongdoing when you cannot account for your own words..............there is no trickery on my part. i asked a question, u answered. i asked another question again to confirm, u replied positively........where the trickery? the only trickery taking place here is done by you..........for instance:

seem like we are in the same boat just that I have proven what I believe is right

where and when did you prove, in this discussion, what you believe in is right?
this is the trickery you should concern yourself with............. ok pal.......... smh

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

yes but all cannot be truth at the same time

can you prove which one is? yes

the only thing thats illogical is you trying convince us that all the religions are true

I never said all are true, I only said that we don't know which one, you don't know which one is true yuh not even gonna try to find out if any, are true and you cannot claim yours is more right because you have no proof.
we have proof we also found out that you not gonna look at it any time soon

I keep repeating that, but I hope you will eventually understand it.
you keep repeating something you not gonna step up to

fighting a losing battle are we. You can stop harping on the fact that I am not coming to visit your "group" because you have no proof.

Stop making that the excuse.

if you can prove what you are claiming, then prove it! Me coming by you shouldn't have anything to do with that. Stop making poor excuses. There are other people here waiting to see your proof, show us all.

[toyo682]

If the Bible is what it says it is then its message should be heeded.

seriously? is that your logic? then if the Qu'ran is what it says it is then its message should be heeded and if the Gita is what it says it is then its message should be heeded and if the Torah is what it says it is then its message should be heeded...

not so? Not so, the Bible's message is different, all others teach that man can reach God by their own merit, the Bible teaches that none is worth. If what you and many others are saying in tread is true, and there are many roads, and God does not care how we come then I am still safe, like I have said I am not against good deeds and in fact I do many weekly. However if the Bible is correct then those who try to make it their by merit are screwed. I have no issues, by your standards I make it and by mine well...

can you all go and find someone who can put forward a decent argument FOR your claims so that we can have a worthwhile discussion instead of this illogical nonsense that is not being thought through properly by you?

It is funny how ppl who think men like Stephen Hawkins are brilliant, call for logic. I am sorry when I look at the human body, the way it is made I know there is a God. the perfect alignment of everything that is needed for the body function tells me that there is someone you thought about how it should be. The laws of the universe, Eco systems, the delicate balance of nature, all came about by chance right... and I am the @^$. In case you miss it one of my course for my degree was Science and Religion, done at the U of A. In my class was engineers,Biologist, Chemist, Physicists, and every other kind of ist there is, hell the teacher was an evolutionary creationist. In case you are wondering I am not against science. Only a fool would look at a building and say there is no builder, or a painting and say there is no painter. Many look around and see chance I see God and purpose.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

can you prove which one is?

yes

well then please do! where is this proof?

ok pal.......... smh

don't shake your head, give us the proof!

[toyo682]

About the quote, I dont know of anyone bowing down and worshipping idols.
How do we know that it is the same god?

Wait... are you saying that there is more than one deity????
Toyo, make up your mind... either you are a monotheist, or you aren't.

For a man you claims to have taught Christianity for years and knows the Bible, are you not familiar with the concepts of idol gods or false gods, or demons parading as gods.
Take a read of Exodus 32, for the hack of it why don't you read the Bible again, there seems to be a lot of things that you have missed.

[toyo682]

I never said all are true, I only said that we don't know which one, if any, are true and you cannot claim yours is more right because you have no proof.

I keep repeating that, but I hope you will eventually understand it.

At least we getting somewhere. If all are not true then we need to seek out which one is true. Or are we going to wait till we die to find out that we have been screwed.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

you are real worried about what will happen when you die. It's almost that you are terrible afraid of even contemplating that when we die there is nothing.

religion was made to comfort these kinds of fears.

Not so, the Bible's message is different, all others teach that man can reach God by their own merit, the Bible teaches that none is worth.

Have you read the Gita and the Torah and the Qu'ran to be sure of this?

If what you and many others are saying in tread is true, and there are many roads, and God does not care how we come then I am still safe, like I have said I am not against good deeds and in fact I do many weekly. However if the Bible is correct then those who try to make it their by merit are screwed. I have no issues, by your standards I make it and by mine well...

So you have this calculated as a safe gamble then? Is that it?

From what the other users are saying you will not make it because you are in here condemning everyone else's beliefs.

Of course in your myopic mind you assume that God even cares how you come to him rather than caring more about how you contribute to this world he created.

It is funny how ppl who think men like Stephen Hawkins are brilliant, call for logic. I am sorry when I look at the human body, the way it is made I know there is a God. the perfect alignment of everything that is needed for the body function tells me that there is someone you thought about how it should be.

failed logic again, if it's so perfect why then do we have sickness and weakness and disease?

The laws of the universe, Eco systems, the delicate balance of nature, all came about by chance right... and I am the @^$. In case you miss it one of my course for my degree was Science and Religion, done at the U of A. In my class was engineers,Biologist, Chemist, Physicists, and every other kind of ist there is, hell the teacher was an evolutionary creationist. In case you are wondering I am not against science. Only a fool would look at a building and say there is no builder, or a painting and say there is no painter. Many look around and see chance I see God and purpose. [/color][/quote]that's nice, but since that is your belief, you should know that in science that is not proof.

you claim to have studied science yet you keep saying things all came about by chance. It is not chance, it is natural selection and everything conforming to the laws of science. We have lungs which breathe oxygen because that is what our eco system offers. We have molars and canine teeth because we are omnivores and we are omnivores because this is the food we have had available, nothing there is chance, it is all that way for a reason. That same rationale explains to us why we have sickness and weakness and why some species go extinct and why evolve.

until you understand that concept, you will remain myopic.

[toyo682]

^^^^ what proof do you have? By the way how did all that we know start?