The Religion Discussion

[MG Man]

[illumin@ti]

^^^

[sMASH]

wait blue, u say that those who did not hear bout christ (pbuh) are not condemned? can u display what scripture leads u to think that?

mega, when he said he was the truth, way and life, we was meaning the message he was teaching, which was from god, not from him. he was a representative. because he separated himself from god by saying that he was not good but the father was, and by worshiping him, u worship sumthing which claimed not to be good.
he separated his will from the father's will, when he begged with despair that his cup be removed.

so to accept him, is to accept the way he taught to live, not him physically.

[sMASH]

oh gosh man,
modz, no ban, jsut delete that account if it from a recognized ip address.


i learn plenty here, and hoss man, isa(pbuh) is not limited to christianity alone eh, u offending more people than u know

[megadoc1]

wait blue, u say that those who did not hear bout christ (pbuh) are not condemned? can u display what scripture leads u to think that?

mega, when he said he was the truth, way and life, we was meaning the message he was teaching, which was from god, not from him. he was a representative. because he separated himself from god by saying that he was not good but the father was, and by worshiping him, u worship sumthing which claimed not to be good.
he separated his will from the father's will, when he begged with despair that his cup be removed.

so to accept him, is to accept the way he taught to live, not him physically.

thats what you think.......but here lies the problem, you came up with that based on
who/what you currently put your faith in and this is what I am saying all along, if you are not abiding in Jesus Christ
whatever your understanding of his word be, will come from what/who you believe in
plus you always seemed to forget what we believe, before you make a statement like that
why must I have to keep reminding you that I believe that Jesus is both God and man?
why do I need to remind you that he came down as flesh and dwelt amongst us?
why do you keep using what you "clearly" don't understand to support what you believe in? .....simple it is all about where your heart is

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ so you are claiming that at the point in time when someone puts their faith in Christ they suddenly start understanding his word correctly?

and also people who do not believe in Christ cannot understand what he was teaching?

[sMASH]

u misunderstand ur own words.
half of the new testament saying dat he is not god, the whole ole testament saying dat he is not god, and ah whole other religion sayin dat he is not god. many of the first believers before the council of nicea days, like the barnabus peeps, (history not exact) did not believe that he was god,

[megadoc1]

^ so you are claiming that at the point in time when someone puts their faith in Christ they suddenly start understanding his word correctly?
not "understanding" but he begins to reveal himself to them through his word
and also people who do not believe in Christ cannot understand what he was teaching? not really , yuh see it's spiritual stuff , you have to be born of the spiritual to "understand" that of the spiritual otherwise its just a story book ..ask MG
note: I used quotation marks because the words of Jesus is not for your mind but it is for your heart and if your heart is not with Jesus then you are wasting time and you will come up with what you think it (his word) or he should be ............so I say again if your heart is not with Jesus he won't force himself onto you ,how then will you know him?

[sMASH]

so, why mek ah book, if it unnecessary?

[d spike]

Spikey: Sorry for the delay. Work et al.

I have openly disagreed with Megadoc on one issue. I do not believe that someone who has lived his/her life without hearing about Jesus Christ is doomed to hell when they die.
How nice of you to respond without actually responding...
I was referring to the polarization of readers, and your seeming attempts to further amplify this action... care to respond to THIS?

I was also referring to the action of Presumption and prejudiced thinking within such an act... care to respond to THIS?

I believe that God is far greater than that.

However, someone who has heard about Jesus Christ and chooses to reject his teachings and guidance will end up in a different category.

Remember that Jesus preached to those "who sleep" when he died. These would be those who came/lived before Him.
Tread slowly, lad. First of all...
One cannot compare the teaching performed by Christ with that of any ordinary man...
Neither can one compare the ability of a man at the end of his life, to look back at all that life has shown him (and thus his decision), to see the threads of the Creator's weaving... with the ability of a man in the midst of his life, and all its concerns swirling about him...

Secondly...
Why do you think that "someone who has lived his life without hearing about Jesus Christ" isn't "doomed to hell when they die"? Is it because they are not truly aware of what you believe life is really about? Well then...
Learning doesn't happen when one is exposed to words alone... our schools are full of sad examples of the results of teachers who believe the opposite of this.
Human nature is such that we see the value of a thing when we are shown its apparent worth. Learning best takes place with demonstration, not words alone.
If I offer you and your friend some liquid, telling you both that it is juice, and your friend drinks it and then drops dead... are you going to drink it? Will you believe that it is really juice? Truth must be demonstrated for others to know/understand what it is...
This is called witnessing. Preaching can take place without the worth of truth being shown - talk is cheap.
If the Light of the World does not shine in your life - it cannot be seen in your actions, how you live - do not blame others for doubting whether you really believe in something of worth.
Be aware that witnessing is how people come to see the value of Christianity...
So if someone preaches to unbelievers, but they cannot see the veracity of his words in the way he lives, and thus do not truly experience Christianity... then they too, are STILL NOT TRULY AWARE of what you believe life is really about...

As I mentioned before: The bullpistle was not kosher so it could not be used. Mea culpa.
Somehow, the dogmatic wording of your initial response strongly suggests that it was no mere assumption on your part...
...And who were the "we" you mentioned?
...And who told you that "bullpistle" is not 'kosher'? (I'd LOVE to hear your answer to this one... ...probably the same bunch who told you about ancient Hebrew cordage, eh? )
Why don't you research (in your case, 'Google') "Gulasz z Penisa"...

One more thing, lad...
Dropping Latin phrases only makes you seem "intellectual" to those who are not. It's a little tacky... and it's even worse when you use it wrongly, for all you are doing is exposing both your ignorance, and your desire for a facade.
("et al" means "and others", but only in reference to beings or people - as in "studying Lewis, Sheed, et al..." ...not activities, like work. )

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

not "understanding" but he begins to reveal himself to them through his word not really , yuh see it's spiritual stuff , you have to be born of the spiritual to "understand" that of the spiritual otherwise its just a story book ..ask MG
note: I used quotation marks because the words of Jesus is not for your mind but it is for your heart and if your heart is not with Jesus then you are wasting time and you will come up with what you think it (his word) or he should be ............so I say again if your heart is not with Jesus he won't force himself onto you ,how then will you know him?

This also makes no sense. If you were to drop a bible (in their language) in a remote part of China where there are people who have never heard of Christianity are you saying that these people will be wasting their time reading it since they are not "born of the spiritual to understand"??

Are you saying the bible is incapable of portraying the teachings of God and Christ to someone one who is not Christian?

This does not make sense!

Are you listening to yourself?
your arguments keep getting weaker and weaker and your statements get less logical.

[tr1ad]

*clap clap*
jesus loves the little children...............
*clap clap*
all the children of the world
*clap clap*
red yellow black and white they are precious in his sight
*clap clap*
jesus loves the little children

[illumin@ti]

*clap clap*
jesus loves the little children...............
*clap clap*
all the children of the world
*clap clap*
red yellow black and white they are precious in his sight
*clap clap*
jesus loves the little children

you get ketch in dis tambourine beatin ting ah wuh

[Jonathan]

I love this guy!!

[d spike]

Well there will always be a doubt as to whether these small cords were not made from dried bull's penis back in the day.
We are at a stalemate on this point.

Doubt in whose mind might I ask??? Who on God's green earth managed to convince you that the Jews used dried bulls' penises as cordage????
Who is this "we" who are at a stalemate?

The bullpistle was not kosher so it could not be used. Mea culpa.

Really?? So why the dogmaticism?

Well there will always be a doubt as to whether these small cords...

(It seems that you were speaking "ex cathedra" )
"Mea culpa"? Your fault? The only grievous fault here is the digging you are doing to bury yourself deeper in the morass of your ignorance!
Who told you that the penis of a bull isn't kosher? Where do you get this nonsense from? Why are you posing all this rot as though they are proper answers? All they do is show those that know that you don't know what you're talking about! And that you are quite happy making up stuff as you go along... what does this say about your other posts?

[megadoc1]

so, why mek ah book, if it unnecessary?

it was written for believers and followers of the true and living God
c'mon people see for yourselves most of the books after the Gospels were
written exclusively for the church, the church are the people who believe in Jesus
if you are not one of them what sense can it be to you?

not "understanding" but he begins to reveal himself to them through his word not really , yuh see it's spiritual stuff , you have to be born of the spiritual to "understand" that of the spiritual otherwise its just a story book ..ask MG
note: I used quotation marks because the words of Jesus is not for your mind but it is for your heart and if your heart is not with Jesus then you are wasting time and you will come up with what you think it (his word) or he should be ............so I say again if your heart is not with Jesus he won't force himself onto you ,how then will you know him?

This also makes no sense. yeah I know If you were to drop a bible (in their language) in a remote part of China where there are people who have never heard of Christianity are you saying that these people will be wasting their time reading it since they are not "born of the spiritual to understand"?? we cannot put God in a box ......this is what I think,
in the bible there is the gospel of Matthew, mark, Luke, and john
it gives details about the life of Jesus and what he did when he was here ,it is enough so that if one believes what was written and opens up their heart to Jesus
then revelation comes but if you don't believe you are wasting time unless you are looking for principles to live by

but hear what romans 10 says.....
13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


Are you saying the bible is incapable of portraying the teachings of God and Christ to someone one who is not Christian?no it is not , or else why should I quote it? the incapability is governed by ones belief/unbelief, God cannot force himself on you if you don't open your heart to him

This does not make sense! glad you realized this but if you stop looking for sense and look for Jesus you shall find him then you will see the true sense of reading the bible

Are you listening to yourself? yessss
your arguments keep getting weaker and weaker and your statements get less logical.
thanks it should seem simple and foolish

Duane do you know in certain parts of china there are Christians without bibles?
you won't believe they have an intimate relationship with God more than most people who have the bible yuh see most of us think its about knowing the bible but it is about knowing Jesus,
alot of people claimed to know the bible but they don't know Jesus, ..which one matters most
knowing Jesus or knowing the bible which is about Jesus ?


anyone can read the bible but if your heart is not with God you are wasting your time

[sMASH]

i understand, islam has a similar concept

but, the catholics have four or five more books dan the normel bible. and the ethiopian has additional as well. so, some get more instruction than others?

one can, and many have, read the quran and have been inspired by it and came to islam. are u saying that one cannot read the bible and see something inspiring? they have to be filled with ur holy ghost before 'understanding?' that is not understanding, that is accepting.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

thanks it should seem simple and foolish

not really, just myopic and illogical.

Oh and where did you learn about these Christians in China who don't have bibles?

[megadoc1]

i understand, islam has a similar concept

but, the catholics have four or five more books dan the normel bible. and the ethiopian has additional as well. so, some get more instruction than others?
thats religion

one can, and many have, read the quran and have been inspired by it and came to islam. are u saying that one cannot read the bible and see something inspiring? they have to be filled with ur holy ghost before 'understanding?' that is not understanding, that is accepting.

would it make sense if I picked up the user manual from the BMW to administer work on my b12 sentra? ........no!
.......I say again ......the Holy bible was compiled with the assumption that the reader has a relationship with the Holy Spirit

[megadoc1]

thanks it should seem simple and foolish

not really, just myopic and illogical. yeah even all that

Oh and where did you learn about these Christians in China who don't have bibles?

start from 2:33

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ I was hoping for a more reliable source, but ok

[sMASH]

but that's just it. some people read it, and saw so many things they knew about make sense, finally. some thing explained, some things with the corrective action. for them, they were shown signs which showed them that that was a better path than that they were on.
i remember a story of a nun who read the first chapter and reverted, and the youth minister guy who read the second chapter, saw that it was different from what he was in before.

it was not the people he was around, as he was around many strong christians, it was not the emotions of the ambiance. they read the words and saw something which had meaning to them, which answered a question they had, and answered it in a way that if there were no more people in the world, to promote the atmosphere of emotions, the words would still ring true.

if enough of u all come together and say ur interpretation is true, then u say u have the truth and nobody else has it. with this, the words are what they are, regardless, of the people who supposed to be following them.

we can have faith to trust, we also have brains to reason.

[Computerman]

.......I say again ......the Holy bible was compiled with the assumption that the reader has a relationship with the Holy Spirit

I'm sure we can all agree that the Holy Bible (and the books contained therein) was written by man and compiled by man. But was this done with guidance from God? I have my doubts!

PR 30:5 Every word of God proves true.
1KI 22:23, 2CH 18:22, JE 4:10, JE 20:7, EZ 14:9 God deceives some of the prophets.
JE 8:8 The scribes (copyists, editors, teachers) falsify the word.
2TH 2:11-12 God deceives the wicked (to be able to condemn them).
(Note: Not every word of God can prove true if God deceives anyone at all; teaching from the Bible cannot be trusted if the scribes falsify the word. In other words, the first reference is mutually exclusive with the other three. Thus, the Bible cannot be the perfect work of a perfect, all-powerful and loving God since one or more of the above references is obviously untrue. Note also: Some versions use the word "persuade" rather than "deceives." The context makes clear, however, that deception is involved.)

GE 1:31 God was pleased with his creation.
GE 6:5-6 God was not pleased with his creation.
(Note: That God should be displeased is inconsistent with the concept of omniscience.)

GE 4:15, DT 32:19-27, IS 34:8 God is a vengeful god.
EX 15:3, IS 42:13, HE 12:29 God is a warrior. God is a consuming fire.
EX 20:5, 34:14, DT 4:24, 5:9, 6:15, 29:20, 32:21 God is a jealous god.
LE 26:7-8, NU 31:17-18, DT 20:16-17, JS 10:40, JG 14:19, EZ 9:5-7 The Spirit of God is (sometimes) murder and killing.
NU 25:3-4, DT 6:15, 9:7-8, 29:20, 32:21, PS 7:11, 78:49, JE 4:8, 17:4, 32:30-31, ZP 2:2 God is angry. His anger is sometimes fierce.
2SA 22:7-8 (KJV) "I called to the Lord; ... he heard my voice; ... The earth trembled and quaked, ... because he was angry. Smoke came from his nostrils. Consuming fire came from his mouth, burning coals blazed out of it."
EZ 6:12, NA 1:2, 6 God is jealous and furious. He reserves wrath for, and takes revenge on, his enemies. "... who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? His fury is poured out like fire, and rocks are thrown down by him."
2CO 13:11, 14, 1JN 4:8, 16 God is love.
GA 5:22-23 The fruit of the Spirit of God is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html

[sMASH]

i understand, islam has a similar concept

but, the catholics have four or five more books dan the normel bible. and the ethiopian has additional as well. so, some get more instruction than others?
thats religion

one can, and many have, read the quran and have been inspired by it and came to islam. are u saying that one cannot read the bible and see something inspiring? they have to be filled with ur holy ghost before 'understanding?' that is not understanding, that is accepting.

would it make sense if I picked up the user manual from the BMW to administer work on my b12 sentra? ........no!
.......I say again ......the Holy bible was compiled with the assumption that the reader has a relationship with the Holy Spirit

... but just before u tell me dat when a christian follows their bible, they are practicing religion, and because of how u left it shortly answered, i am left to assume that implied meaning is that religion is not to be followed,,, which is what one does when they follow their bible. and now, in the same response u tellin me that u have to relate with the holy ghost before u follow the bible, as it is like manual for ones self,,,, right after leading me to think that practicing what the bible teaches is religion which is bad?????

com'mon, don't play trixies.

which is it, is the bible a manual to follow only and only when u have the holy ghost, or is it religion made by man and against christianity

ur writings have implied meaning, which contradicts your other stuff. when u writing, dont do it in parables, that was not for u to do. type in plain words, like an instruction manual. try to be specific, not creative. anticipate where ur words can be misinterpreted, and make clear statements to remove ambiguity.

... or is ur intention to use few words so as to confuse and therefore prolong understanding?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ he needs to be ambiguous because he has no solid evidence of anything he is saying nor is he entirely sure of which points best support his argument.

megadoc1 and bluefete both have the same argument and that is "I am right".
That is what is entire 180+ thread is about, yet 180 pages later they still cannot prove that they are.

They cannot possibly prove it so they try mulitple angles, most of the angles obviously contradict each other and none are solid or factual = ambiguity.

[megadoc1]

i understand, islam has a similar concept

but, the catholics have four or five more books dan the normel bible. and the ethiopian has additional as well. so, some get more instruction than others?
thats religion

one can, and many have, read the quran and have been inspired by it and came to islam. are u saying that one cannot read the bible and see something inspiring? they have to be filled with ur holy ghost before 'understanding?' that is not understanding, that is accepting.

would it make sense if I picked up the user manual from the BMW to administer work on my b12 sentra? ........no!
.......I say again ......the Holy bible was compiled with the assumption that the reader has a relationship with the Holy Spirit

... but just before u tell me dat when a christian follows their bible, they are practicing religion, I NEVER SAID THAT please don't play those tricks and because of how u left it shortly answered, i am left to assume that implied meaning is that religion is not to be followed,,, although you "misunderstood" me you get this right strange but true...religion is to stay far from which is what one does when they follow their bible. nope again you misunderstood, this is what I said If your heart is not with Jesus,but you follow the bible you are practicing religion and now, in the same response u tellin me that u have to relate with the holy ghost before u follow the bible,now we are getting there, thats quite right as it is like manual for ones self,,,, who is born of the spirit of God right after leading me to think that practicing what the bible teaches is religion which is bad?????
the bible is about Jesus what sense does it make practicing what it teaches if your heart is not with Jesus?

com'mon, don't play trixies.
if you can only take your own advice

which is it, is the bible a manual to follow only and only when u have the holy ghost, or is it religion made by man and against christianity it can be both one is with Jesus and one is without
hope you don't play tricks with what is said again

ur writings have implied meaning, which contradicts your other stuff. when u writing, dont do it in parables, that was not for u to do. type in plain words, like an instruction manual. try to be specific, not creative. anticipate where ur words can be misinterpreted, and make clear statements to remove ambiguity. why not show the contradictions and we will take it from there
am not up to trikery

... or is ur intention to use few words so as to confuse and therefore prolong understanding?
why not say what you think it is just like what you did for everything else?

^ he needs to be ambiguous because he has no solid evidence of anything he is saying nor is he entirely sure of which points best support his argument.
thats an assumption yuh know, can you prove that? why not take a step
in an attempt to prove otherwise?

megadoc1 and bluefete both have the same argument and that is "I am right".
That is what is entire 180+ thread is about, yet 180 pages later they still cannot prove that they are. yeah right,for the last 180+ pages what I saw was excuses upon excuses man will make not to serve the true and living God and not one will put himself in a position where he will have to question himself of all what he thought he knew
They cannot possibly prove it so they try mulitple angles, most of the angles obviously contradict each other and none are solid or factual = ambiguity. I say thats just talk, aren't you the same "pro science" guy who like to have things proven yet won't take a step to see
if what was being said is done?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ if what was being said was actually being done then I would have to go and see.

it is just another cop out you are using

[megadoc1]

^ if what was being said was actually being done then I would have to go and see.

it is just another cop out you are using

but its being done so someone is left in the dark
or probably rather darkness more than light

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ why keep it in your church then? why not go to the hospitals and heal everyone there?

[megadoc1]

stop assuming nah, who said we don't ? we even do it in the malls
this is not something special or confined ,it is the natural Christian life
the kingdom of heaven is wherever a Christian goes

oh and when you use the term church as in the building that is kinda religious
the church is actually the people who follows Jesus so wherever the church is
miracles happen