"Official" POLICE & Police Commisioner Related Matters thread ...

[alfa]

You all are making yourselves out to be caricatures of misreading headlines.

A man from Tobago applied for a gun and for years it hasn't been approved. He went to court and our nation's favourite High Court judge ruled in his favour and said the CoP must approve or deny in 30 days. The judge then went on beyond his jurisdiction to not just adjudicate the law but to suggest what govt policy and legislation should be. We have in our democracy the Executive, Legislative and Judicial and they should never cross. The judge said that in light of crime, guns should be more freely available.

In response to the judge, Rowley said firstly you are wrong to cross your remit, secondly that is not his govt policy nor does he intend to bring any legislation to make legal guns more accessible.

In the same vein, the UNC is campaigning right now that if elected into govt they will make legal guns more accessible because as govt, they have the power to do that as opposed to the PNM that has rejected doing that.

So how could you all so poorly interpret that to mean, "well rowlee done say he is the one who does do final approval of the ful"

Ok so you don't like Rowley, but when you make an asinine comment against him, you make him look reasonable and you look dotish.

How could you so poorly interpret my statement to mean that I believe Rowley has the final say on individual FULs being issued? From his statement that it is not the position of his govt to arm the public a common sense interpretation is that he would most likely have indicated to the COP not to issue FULs to citizens except in rare cases or if they bring her before the court which would prove that the COP's position in its present form is not an independent one. Either that or he was a total idiot to himself to make such a statement if it was indeed the opposite and he had no interference in same. I think therefore you are the only dotish looking one here

[Habit7]

i recall clearly rowlee stating that he and his govt policy was to limit the numbers of fuls granted and they would not be allowing everybody who applied to get

ie he himself or his govt and not erla are the ones doing final approval to satisfy the limited numbers
he clearly said thousands were not to be approved like with gg

go lookup the meeting yourself and utilize you comprehension skills before you embarrass yourself

Unless you can quote and cite the man saying X, X remains a figment of your biased mind.

How could you so poorly interpret my statement to mean that I believe Rowley has the final say on individual FULs being issued? From his statement that it is not the position of his govt to arm the public a common sense interpretation is that he would most likely have indicated to the COP not to issue FULs to citizens except in rare cases or if they bring her before the court which would prove that the COP's position in its present form is not an independent one. Either that or he was a total idiot to himself to make such a statement if it was indeed the opposite and he had no interference in same. I think therefore you are the only dotish looking one here

First you said I am poorly interpreting that you meant that Rowley has the final say in FUL, then you create a scenario that common sense is that Rowley dictates to CoP what to do thus giving Rowley the final say.

He is the PM, he can create legislation for legal firearms and as the head of the Cabinet, he can determine the policy for the TTPS. He was responding to Judge Seepersad who said to open up the access to legal guns and Rowley said no. Everything else you said there is conjuncture.

[pugboy]

the fact remains he is interfering with public process by imposing his admitted policy
don’t stray from the issue

[Habit7]

It is not a fact if you cannot quote and cite the man saying what you are claiming he said.

[alfa]

i recall clearly rowlee stating that he and his govt policy was to limit the numbers of fuls granted and they would not be allowing everybody who applied to get

ie he himself or his govt and not erla are the ones doing final approval to satisfy the limited numbers
he clearly said thousands were not to be approved like with gg

go lookup the meeting yourself and utilize you comprehension skills before you embarrass yourself

Unless you can quote and cite the man saying X, X remains a figment of your biased mind.

How could you so poorly interpret my statement to mean that I believe Rowley has the final say on individual FULs being issued? From his statement that it is not the position of his govt to arm the public a common sense interpretation is that he would most likely have indicated to the COP not to issue FULs to citizens except in rare cases or if they bring her before the court which would prove that the COP's position in its present form is not an independent one. Either that or he was a total idiot to himself to make such a statement if it was indeed the opposite and he had no interference in same. I think therefore you are the only dotish looking one here

First you said I am poorly interpreting that you meant that Rowley has the final say in FUL, then you create a scenario that common sense is that Rowley dictates to CoP what to do thus giving Rowley the final say.

He is the PM, he can create legislation for legal firearms and as the head of the Cabinet, he can determine the policy for the TTPS. He was responding to Judge Seepersad who said to open up the access to legal guns and Rowley said no. Everything else you said there is conjuncture.

The firearm act specifies who is exempt from needing an FUL eg police and who is barred from having one i.e a restricted person as stated in the firerarms act as follows:
“restricted person” means any person who has at any time within five years next before the event in relation to which the term is used— (a) been declared by a Court pursuant to section 3 to be a restricted person; or (b) been convicted of an offence involving violence and sentenced to a term of imprisonment exceeding three months
The act further states:
16A. Upon the expiration of the period referred to in section 16(5) the person who held the provisional licence may apply for a Firearm User’s Licence, and such application shall be accompanied by a certificate of competence issued by a licensed firearms instructor. 17. (1) Subject to this section and to section 16, the grant of any licence, certificate or permit shall be in the discretion of the Commissioner of Police.
So Seepersad asking for more liberal access to firearms is definately not asking the govt to change the law as the law is already there which grants the COP full discretion in issuing FULs including opening access to victims of crime if she sees it fit. And if according to you 'Rowley said no" then you just agreed with my statement without realizing it. You have to now prove where Rowley explicity said or which statement of his can be interpreted as 'changing legislation' to open access to firearms. The man never mentioned anything about his govt not being willing to change laws.
I also realize you could never take wrong so I won't further engage you on this topic

[pugboy]

https://www.facebook.com/OPMTT/videos/c ... 934631175/

1:07 onwards

i won’t further engage you either

[eliteauto]

What kinda phone Keithos using dey? Also the man saying no gun for allyuh, we have a rate at which we giving out. Man literally vex with a COP exercising his duty under law oui

[Habit7]

So Seepersad asking for more liberal access to firearms is definately not asking the govt to change the law as the law is already there which grants the COP full discretion in issuing FULs including opening access to victims of crime if she sees it fit.

Justice Seepersad also suggested that consideration of widening the pool of FUL holders may be required because of the country’s high crime rate.


“The playing field should be levelled and the defenceless should be given a ‘fighting’ chance,” he said.
https://www.cnc3.co.tt/judge-lashes-out ... ful-delays

https://www.facebook.com/OPMTT/videos/conversations-with-the-prime-minister-tuesday-26th-march-2024/284987934631175/

1:07 onwards

i won’t further engage you either

I am sure it is in the subsequent 2hrs

[Habit7]

What kinda phone Keithos using dey? Also the man saying no gun for allyuh, we have a rate at which we giving out. Man literally vex with a COP exercising his duty under law oui

Yea a man in Tobago waiting 7yrs for a reply and now took the current CoP to court.

But Damien Laing whose family are known PNM supporters has 27 guns and 800 rounds was arrested for giving his driver a pistol to “hold.”
Or Sharaz Mohammed killing his ex wife and himself with one of his 5 legal firearms.

Ppl should exercise their public duty impartially and not under the cloud of bribes.

Certain ppl were given multiple FULs while some were given none. And while there has been an audit into the process, it remains under injunction.

[pugboy]

that phone have ai in it
you ain’t see how it magically pull up stats for him as the man ask about guns in tt
plus it predict the man was an ex police

but the numbers hatta be wrong
2m guns for say 10k ppl who got fuls

means ppl get on avg 200 guns
make it make sense nah

What kinda phone Keithos using dey? Also the man saying no gun for allyuh, we have a rate at which we giving out. Man literally vex with a COP exercising his duty under law oui

[MaxPower]

Too many Trinis with FULs isn’t quite leveling the playing field.

More of a disaster.

[pugboy]

max what is the right number of persons to have ful?
1 in 20?
what’s the ideal number of guns per person?

Too many Trinis with FULs isn’t quite leveling the playing field.

More of a disaster.

[alfa]

The former police officer Rowley mysteriously knew, as soon as he asked the question Keith already pulled stats. It's almost as if he had it staged on the phone lol. Same man who asked was also promised that the next meeting will be in his hometown of grande so expect him to ask more 'pertinent ' questions then and to get more FUL files bussing from Keith.

[pugboy]

well duuuuuuhhh

The former police officer Rowley mysteriously knew, as soon as he asked the question Keith already pulled stats. It's almost as if he had it staged on the phone lol. Same man who asked was also promised that the next meeting will be in his hometown of grande so expect him to ask more 'pertinent ' questions then and to get more FUL files bussing from Keith.

[16 cycles]

Nothing in the constitution or process speaks about rate of granting FuLs.

PM / affidavit also did not specify how many firearms/ammunition was earmarked for MoNS.

[pugboy]

just like applying for a drivers license or passport

Nothing in the constitution or process speaks about rate of granting FuLs.

PM / affidavit also did not specify how many firearms/ammunition was earmarked for MoNS.

[88sins]

Nothing in the constitution or process speaks about rate of granting FuLs.

PM / affidavit also did not specify how many firearms/ammunition was earmarked for MoNS.

Good.
So, when you apply for a passport, you expect it to be a normal thing if there's a 15-20 year wait time for your application to be processed right? Same for your drivers permit, birth and death certificate, WASA clearance, etc right?

Stop making excuses for other people's fvckups son. It's neither an attractive look, nor fashionable.

[Chimera]

What kinda phone Keithos using dey? Also the man saying no gun for allyuh, we have a rate at which we giving out. Man literally vex with a COP exercising his duty under law oui

Yea a man in Tobago waiting 7yrs for a reply and now took the current CoP to court.

But Damien Laing whose family are known PNM supporters has 27 guns and 800 rounds was arrested for giving his driver a pistol to “hold.”
Or Sharaz Mohammed killing his ex wife and himself with one of his 5 legal firearms.

Ppl should exercise their public duty impartially and not under the cloud of bribes.

Certain ppl were given multiple FULs while some were given none. And while there has been an audit into the process, it remains under injunction.

Them have some sort of gun dealer license because they like guns and it was the easiest way for them to own a large amount of guns. They don't sell to the public.

[pugboy]

doh worry nah man
is only ful rowlee concerned with because gg get under his skin like a mange mite
he will never step out of his job and try to micromanage and tell others how to do their jobs
just like how heinz say he not responsible for anything

*sarcasm*

Nothing in the constitution or process speaks about rate of granting FuLs.

PM / affidavit also did not specify how many firearms/ammunition was earmarked for MoNS.

Good.
So, when you apply for a passport, you expect it to be a normal thing if there's a 15-20 year wait time for your application to be processed right? Same for your drivers permit, birth and death certificate, WASA clearance, etc right?

Stop making excuses for other people's fvckups son. It's neither an attractive look, nor fashionable.

[Habit7]

What kinda phone Keithos using dey? Also the man saying no gun for allyuh, we have a rate at which we giving out. Man literally vex with a COP exercising his duty under law oui

Yea a man in Tobago waiting 7yrs for a reply and now took the current CoP to court.

But Damien Laing whose family are known PNM supporters has 27 guns and 800 rounds was arrested for giving his driver a pistol to “hold.”
Or Sharaz Mohammed killing his ex wife and himself with one of his 5 legal firearms.

Ppl should exercise their public duty impartially and not under the cloud of bribes.

Certain ppl were given multiple FULs while some were given none. And while there has been an audit into the process, it remains under injunction.

Them have some sort of gun dealer license because they like guns and it was the easiest way for them to own a large amount of guns. They don't sell to the public.

They have no gun dealer license. This issue is clearly what the current CoP was sued for. They are thousands of applications in the system that ppl are waiting years to get approved. But some ppl are able to leapfrog others and get FULs and changes to their allocation of number of firearms. There have been in the past credible allegations of solicitations of bribes to fast track the process. And what was observed that under the admin of a certain CoP, FUL were distributed much more than the TTPS could properly vet and a CoP could properly approve. Plus it was not on a first come first serve basis and some got multiple while other still waiting like the business man from Tobago who sued the current CoP.

An audit was done and the findings presented but it can’t be presented to the public.

[16 cycles]

Nothing in the constitution or process speaks about rate of granting FuLs.

PM / affidavit also did not specify how many firearms/ammunition was earmarked for MoNS.

Good.
So, when you apply for a passport, you expect it to be a normal thing if there's a 15-20 year wait time for your application to be processed right? Same for your drivers permit, birth and death certificate, WASA clearance, etc right?

Stop making excuses for other people's fvckups son. It's neither an attractive look, nor fashionable.

Where was the excuse?

[pugboy]

if rowlee had a couple brain cells
all he had to do was send somebody to a gun dealer and do a sting operation
the bribe bobol was very open

instead of announcing that he hear it have ful bobol and he hiring stanley john to investigate
as though they would continue their bobol in the open after than announcement

[Habit7]

if rowlee had a couple brain cells
all he had to do was send somebody to a gun dealer and do a sting operation
the bribe bobol was very open

instead of announcing that he hear it have ful bobol and he hiring stanley john to investigate
as though they would continue their bobol in the open after than announcement

Well since Rowley has a couple of brain cells he wouldn't do that because criminal investigations are the remit of the TTPS. The PM cannot direct the TTPS to do any criminal investigation. Plus any such "sting operation" would not be admissible in court.

Unless you heard him planning that too during his last 2hr public meeting that only you heard him say something specific?

[alfa]

if rowlee had a couple brain cells
all he had to do was send somebody to a gun dealer and do a sting operation
the bribe bobol was very open

instead of announcing that he hear it have ful bobol and he hiring stanley john to investigate
as though they would continue their bobol in the open after than announcement

Well since Rowley has a couple of brain cells he wouldn't do that because criminal investigations are the remit of the TTPS. The PM cannot direct the TTPS to do any criminal investigation. Plus any such "sting operation" would not be admissible in court.

Unless you heard him planning that too during his last 2hr public meeting that only you heard him say something specific?

Well then the ttps should have had the brain cells to do a sting operation themselves as they have done many times in the past sometimes in conjunction with journalists. The fact is everyone knew of the bobol and I'm willing to bet Rowley did to. It's only when he had a taking out with Gary he used that as an excuse even up to this day to attack his character and suitability for political life. After kamla Gary is the most called name from by the PNM

[pugboy]

as head of the nsc he had more than enough authority to put something in place to deal with the ful bobol

what happen is he let his personal grouse against gg affect his rationality and common sense in dealing with it
you know the saying you must never take decisions when you vex

[88sins]

I'm thinking something.
It's about time ALL branches of law enforcement start to bear the financial responsibility for their actions in relation to when they accuse and charge members of the public with beaches of the law, considering that they can and do on occasion let their personal. mental , psychological and emotional state influence their actions while on duty, and sometimes intentionally misinterpret purposefully ambiguous legislation as a means to achieve an end result of charging people with offenses who may very well be innocent of the charges they are accused of.

jmho

[pugboy]

you asking for something called accountability........
try asking for it at the top first for simple things like the annual budget every year

I'm thinking something.
It's about time ALL branches of law enforcement start to bear the financial responsibility for their actions in relation to when they accuse and charge members of the public with beaches of the law, considering that they can and do on occasion let their personal. mental , psychological and emotional state influence their actions while on duty, and sometimes intentionally misinterpret purposefully ambiguous legislation as a means to achieve an end result of charging people with offenses who may very well be innocent of the charges they are accused of.

jmho

[Habit7]

as head of the nsc he had more than enough authority to put something in place to deal with the ful bobol

what happen is he let his personal grouse against gg affect his rationality and common sense in dealing with it
you know the saying you must never take decisions when you vex

I don't think you understand the legal role of the PM.

If something illegal is happening with FULs, which are managed by the TTPS and approved by the CoP, the only bodies you can report it to are the very TTPS, the Police Complaint Authority or possibly the Police Service Commission. They are the ones to investigate and only them (except PSC) can bring a charge.

The role of any PM as head of the NSC is to make POLICY. The PM cannot dispatch the TTPS to deal with this or that criminal investigation. He can make policy for bribery, but not send the TTPS to investigate Moonilal or Duke, etc for bribery. That will be him interfering with an independent body. What you are accusing him of, you are now demanding that he do.

The FUL process is governed by law, if there has to be change it has to be legislation in parliament. What can inform new legislation? The Stanley John report and the Firearm Audit, one of which is injuncted.

So if there is any bobol in the FUL process that the reports are showing, that is a role for the current independent CoP to act on, not the PM.

[alfa]

Didn't Manning leave his barber shop in Sando and march over to O' Brian Haynes radio station and demand he fire the two youths who was bad taking him on the air lol? This is the third world bruh, vast difference between what is supposed to happen and what actually does

[Habit7]

Didn't Manning leave his barber shop in Sando and march over to O' Brian Haynes radio station and demand he fire the two youths who was bad taking him on the air lol? This is the third world bruh, vast difference between what is supposed to happen and what actually does

Manning didnt demand anybody be fired, he made a complaint in a "calm and cool" manner about a newscaster editorialising a live news broadcast. It could be seen as his actions being inappropriate but not illegal. https://trinidadexpress.com/news/local/ ... 676fa.html

But you cant be accusing the PM of interfering with the FUL process and quoting the law, then saying he should bring about changes illegally. You are contradicting yourself.

Plus you will be absolving the guilty parties because whatever findings that are made based on illegal means, it will be inadmissible in court if not prejudice any subsequent conviction.