Are We Serious about Fixing Crime in T&T?

[Habit7]

Now you have me really interested. So with your non illiterate self can you tell me what are the criteria according to your learned interpretation of the act regarding who an FUL can or should be granted to

So you accuse me of not reading the Firearms Act, say nonsense that there is no criteria for FUL but want me to give you my interpretation?

Why you want it now? You already arrive at your wrong one.

[alfa]

Now you have me really interested. So with your non illiterate self can you tell me what are the criteria according to your learned interpretation of the act regarding who an FUL can or should be granted to

So you accuse me of not reading the Firearms Act, say nonsense that there is no criteria for FUL but want me to give you my interpretation?

Why you want it now? You already arrive at your wrong one.

Entertain me nah

[zoom rader]

I am convinced you are an illiterate but probably using chat gpt or whatever. I said you don't need legislation to arrest or kill bandits and that arrest and preferably kill is the immediate solution.
You do however need new legislation for the common man to own a firearm. I stated the statue already which says the COP has full discretion who to grant FULs to without any standard criteria other than who they feel to give to. And given that Erla is a PNM puppet and Rowley said no FULs for the common man you do the math. As to bandits with rifles and me with a pistol, if you had read the firearms act you'll know there's no restrictions on civilians owning rifles. I know a doctor personally with a legal AR-15.
And for the record I ain't voting this rounds cuz it's a PNM win so don't class me as a UNC diehard.

Well, anti gang legislation allows police to arrest organised bandits. Also police cannot kill bandits because that will violate existing legislation wrt murder. Police can respond to deadly force or the threat of deadly force but killing bandits will be extra judicial murder.

There is nothing to indicate that Erla is the puppet of anyone, you are just parroting the rhetoric of the UNC who voted for here just like PNM. But you are distancing yourself from the UNC just like they are distancing themselves from her.

I specifically said “automatic rifles”. An AR-15 is a semi-automatic rifle.

There is standard criteria for a FUL according to Section 17 of the Firearms Act.


But then again, I’m illiterate.

Eira is not a puppet? Dis is a

Bills and anti gangs legislation?

There are enough laws and crime fighting methods for PNM to deal with negass and their gangs. Bills dont slove crime

A home invasion will sort Habit7 problems

[adnj]

Well, anti gang legislation allows police to arrest organised bandits. Also police cannot kill bandits because that will violate existing legislation wrt murder. Police can respond to deadly force or the threat of deadly force but killing banditsu will be extra judicial murder.

There is nothing to indicate that Erla is the puppet of anyone, you are just parroting the rhetoric of the UNC who voted for here just like PNM. But you are distancing yourself from the UNC just like they are distancing themselves from her.

I specifically said “automatic rifles”. An AR-15 is a semi-automatic rifle.

There is standard criteria for a FUL according to Section 17 of the Firearms Act.


But then again, I’m illiterate.

The AR-15 was the predecessor of the M-16, used by the US military. Both are select-fire, automatic rifles.

You must have probably meant the widely available AR-15 style rifle. Those are typically semiautomatic, but they are also available as select-fire, fully automatic rifles.

TTPS: Only trained people can get licence for semi-automatic rifles
DARREN BAHAW SUNDAY 15 AUGUST 2021


Only qualified individuals who are already experienced firearm holders and are active participants in target sport shooting are eligible for applying for consideration to be granted a licence to buy a semi-automatic rifle, according to the police service.

A statement issued on Saturday sought to justify the Commissioner of Police's (CoP) granting of licences to civilians to use rifles carrying 5.56 or 7.62 ammunition, normally used by the military and tactical unit of the police, for sport target shooting.

It said as part of the application process a letter and or recommendation from a recognised outdoor shooting range must accompany the variation form for which the Commissioner of Police has the authority to approve once satisfied of the intent of use.

Under the three-year tenure of CoP Gary Griffith, over 100 licences have been granted to civilians to purchase semi-automatic rifles and there has been an increase in the number of approved gun dealers and shooting ranges across the country.

According to the statement only authorised firearm dealers have been granted permission to import firearms of rifle calibre for supply to qualified and approved individuals for the purpose of participation on target sport shooting events. Dealers are only granted permission to import 5.56/7.62 rifles in the semi-automatic configuration direct from the manufacturers as stipulated by the firearms Act Chapter 16:01. The Firearms Act prohibits civilians from owning an "automatic firearm" – any firearm so designed or adapted that if pressure is applied to the trigger missiles continue to be discharged until pressure is removed from the trigger or until the magazine containing the missiles is empty.

Under the provisions of the act a "prohibited weapon" can be interpreted to be an "automatic firearm" which is considered a restricted item in the hands of a civilian, the statement said.

"Semi-automatic firearms although having an identical appearance to the fully automatic versions are not functionally the same in terms of the rate of fire and intention of application and use. A semi-automatic firearm is primarily designed for civilian use whilst a fully automatic version which is designed and manufactured for military application. At a glance, a semi-automatic rifle may appear to any lay citizen to be an automatic weapon in a general sense as they share the same aesthetic form and components," it said.

https://newsday.co.tt/2021/08/15/ttps-o ... ic-rifles/

If the story is true, any civilian owning an AR-15 would have to be the semiautomatic version.

You must have probably meant the widely available AR-15 style rifle. Those are typically semiautomatic, but they are also available as select-fire, fully automatic rifles.

[Habit7]

So what is the AR-15?

The AR-15 was designed in the mid-1950s by the California-based small arms manufacturer ArmaLite. (“AR” stands for “ArmaLite Rifle,” not “assault rifle,” as is often assumed.) The original AR-15 had a “select fire” capability, giving users the option to shoot in semiautomatic mode; fully automatic mode, which continues firing until the trigger is released; or burst mode, which ejects three bullets per trigger pull.
It was intended for the U.S. military, which was in need of a lightweight rifle with expanded ammunition capacity. But after it failed to attract buyers, ArmaLite sold its AR-15 design to Colt, one of America’s oldest gunmakers. Colt made some design tweaks to the AR-15, and in 1963 it marketed the rifle (successfully) to the military as the M16. It developed a semiautomatic version of the AR-15 for the civilian market at around the same time.

https://www.thetrace.org/2022/06/ar15-r ... eapon-ban/

[zoom rader]

So let me get this straight ...what we appoint you for? If you saying this.... why you don't fix it?

The Prime Minister said the strongest defence of the criminal was “Mr Delay”.

He said the country needed to get serious in addressing this issue because in countries where they have eliminated delays and brought people to court, dispensed with them and removed them from society, these countries were able to bring down crime.

“We are seeming to go in the opposite direction,” he said. “When I grew up, we were no more barbarous than we are now, and when I grew up if you were charged for murder you had no bail to get, and I never knew about anybody killing any witness. But in this environment, we are now talking about English conditions where you get bail for murder and you come out and you have a gun again. What de hell did you expect?”

https://trinidadexpress.com/news/local/judicial-delays-helping-criminals/article_e9658b58-1a3a-11ef-97d5-b7c364522183.html

I think ppl are allowing the rhetoric to fool them. This country has a PM not a dictator. The PM can only operate within the existing laws of the country and he cannot overrule the co equal branches of government, namely the Judiciary.

All that to say, the PNM wants to curb crime and the UNC doesn’t want them to because they think they will look better if crime is worse.

This is the context of what the PM is talking about:

Lutchmedial: Privy Council ruling vindicates Opposition non-support of Bail Bill

20220729

Gail Alexander

The UNC’s position on bail was correct, according to Senator Jayanti Lutchmedial, who said yesterday’s Privy Council ruling against the state vindicated the party’s recent non-support of the Bail (Amendment) Bill 2022.

Lutchmedial spoke following the Privy Council’s dismissal of the State’s appeal on the Akili Charles matter.

Lutchmedial said the judgement confirmed the local Court of Appeal’s February ruling on Charles’ matter, that the automatic denial of bail isn’t reasonably justifiable in a society that has a proper respect for the rights and freedom of the individual.


Lutchmedial said, “The judgment is a significant development in the law of human rights and how the state must balance the objectives of a law against the fights and freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution.

“The fact is that now, a person accused of a crime, will have the ability to approach the court to request bail and the prosecution will have the opportunity to argue against it based on facts and circumstances, not some sweeping dictate handed down by Parliament. This is a victory for democracy and the rule of law.”

She added, “Instead of accepting the Court of Appeal’s decision delivered by the Honourable Chief Justice in the Charles matter and refocusing their crime-fighting efforts, the Rowley-led Government wasted resources to lose another matter in the Privy Council.”

Lutchmedial said the ruling vindicated the Opposition’s stance against the recent Bail (Amendment) Bill 2022, which attempted to extend the life of a provision which placed restrictions on right to apply for bail.

She said the Opposition was “fully aware and cognizant of the implications” the Charles decision has on the evolving local jurisprudence and urged the Government to focus on crime-fighting methods.

But she claimed Government’s focus was on pre-trial detention of persons who ought to enjoy the presumption of innocence.

Lutchmedial accused Government of “using the Charles” case to attack Opposition “members past and present” for representing Charles.

She criticised the past attorney general and accused the National Security Minister of using the office of Police Commissioner to build support for the bill and “exert pressure on the Opposition to support” it.

https://www.guardian.co.tt/news/lutchme ... 69750a239d

This country has a PM not a dictator?

Rowlee has the final say on who gets Ful and who can be COP. Appointments to government jobs is via Bailiser houses.

Yeah u right we not living in Dictatorship.

I guess Rowlee to black to be PM

[alfa]

Any y'all ever shoot anything besides a caps gun?

[MaxPower]

Too many Trinis with FULs will be a problem.

It’s just too much irresponsibility and it will be more firearms in the hands of criminals.

Does the UNC have another solution?

[Habit7]

According to the Firearms Act the CoP has the final say on FUL, hence Rowley’s criticism of liberal distribution of FULs. The PM didn’t approve.

The COP is appointed by majority vote in the Lower House from the PolSC Merit List. It is not by the final say of the PM.

[alfa]

According to the Firearms Act the CoP has the final say on FUL, hence Rowley’s criticism of liberal distribution of FULs. The PM didn’t approve.

The COP is appointed by majority vote in the Lower House from the PolSC Merit List. It is not by the final say of the PM.

You do realize you just admitted to two things you ducking from admitting in the next thread
1. The COP has final say on granting of FULs i.e there is no fixed criteria which she has to abide by like say granting of a building permit by T&C once you satisfy defined criteria.
2. Rowley did say he doesn't want too much people having FULs. His actual words being that it's not the position of his govt to give FULs to prevent crime.
You really feel we don't read the other topics

[adnj]

Well, anti gang legislation allows police to arrest organised bandits. Also police cannot kill bandits because that will violate existing legislation wrt murder. Police can respond to deadly force or the threat of deadly force but killing banditsu will be extra judicial murder.

There is nothing to indicate that Erla is the puppet of anyone, you are just parroting the rhetoric of the UNC who voted for here just like PNM. But you are distancing yourself from the UNC just like they are distancing themselves from her.

I specifically said “automatic rifles”. An AR-15 is a semi-automatic rifle.

There is standard criteria for a FUL according to Section 17 of the Firearms Act.


But then again, I’m illiterate.

So what is the AR-15?

The AR-15 was designed in the mid-1950s by the California-based small arms manufacturer ArmaLite. (“AR” stands for “ArmaLite Rifle,” not “assault rifle,” as is often assumed.) The original AR-15 had a “select fire” capability, giving users the option to shoot in semiautomatic mode; fully automatic mode, which continues firing until the trigger is released; or burst mode, which ejects three bullets per trigger pull.
It was intended for the U.S. military, which was in need of a lightweight rifle with expanded ammunition capacity. But after it failed to attract buyers, ArmaLite sold its AR-15 design to Colt, one of America’s oldest gunmakers. Colt made some design tweaks to the AR-15, and in 1963 it marketed the rifle (successfully) to the military as the M16. It developed a semiautomatic version of the AR-15 for the civilian market at around the same time.

https://www.thetrace.org/2022/06/ar15-r ... eapon-ban/

The AR-15 was the predecessor of the M-16, used by the US military. Both are select-fire, automatic rifles.

You must have probably meant the widely available AR-15 style rifle. Those are typically semiautomatic, but they are also available as select-fire, fully automatic rifles.

[pugboy]

there are even pellet air guns which mimic ar15

[pugboy]

and he won’t acknowledge the video of rowlee saying he limits how many are granted

making excuse about how he don’t know how to slide forward a youtube video

According to the Firearms Act the CoP has the final say on FUL, hence Rowley’s criticism of liberal distribution of FULs. The PM didn’t approve.

The COP is appointed by majority vote in the Lower House from the PolSC Merit List. It is not by the final say of the PM.

You do realize you just admitted to two things you ducking from admitting in the next thread
1. The COP has final say on granting of FULs i.e there is no fixed criteria which she has to abide by like say granting of a building permit by T&C once you satisfy defined criteria.
2. Rowley did say he doesn't want too much people having FULs. His actual words being that it's not the position of his govt to give FULs to prevent crime.
You really feel we don't read the other topics

[Habit7]

According to the Firearms Act the CoP has the final say on FUL, hence Rowley’s criticism of liberal distribution of FULs. The PM didn’t approve.

The COP is appointed by majority vote in the Lower House from the PolSC Merit List. It is not by the final say of the PM.

You do realize you just admitted to two things you ducking from admitting in the next thread
1. The COP has final say on granting of FULs i.e there is no fixed criteria which she has to abide by like say granting of a building permit by T&C once you satisfy defined criteria.
2. Rowley did say he doesn't want too much people having FULs. His actual words being that it's not the position of his govt to give FULs to prevent crime.
You really feel we don't read the other topics

1. Can a child be granted an FUL?
2. Please quote Rowley saying this.

[matix]

https://youtu.be/hxcOyh5cdfo?si=8FBPYB3rmmdnUM-p


Since we like to quote our extremely honest Honourable Prime Minister.

[alfa]

According to the Firearms Act the CoP has the final say on FUL, hence Rowley’s criticism of liberal distribution of FULs. The PM didn’t approve.

The COP is appointed by majority vote in the Lower House from the PolSC Merit List. It is not by the final say of the PM.

You do realize you just admitted to two things you ducking from admitting in the next thread
1. The COP has final say on granting of FULs i.e there is no fixed criteria which she has to abide by like say granting of a building permit by T&C once you satisfy defined criteria.
2. Rowley did say he doesn't want too much people having FULs. His actual words being that it's not the position of his govt to give FULs to prevent crime.
You really feel we don't read the other topics

1. Can a child be granted an FUL?
2. Please quote Rowley saying this.

1. If you read the subsections of section 17 you'd know no one under 25 can be granted an FUL along with other prohibitions. What it doesn't say is who can be granted or what criteria they need to meet. Subsection 1 says it's at the discretion of the COP. Let me break it down simple for illiterates, granny can give or not give whoever she feels, no reason necessary.
2. For the umpteenth time watch the damn video
And remember kids Alta classes are free

[Habit7]

According to the Firearms Act the CoP has the final say on FUL, hence Rowley’s criticism of liberal distribution of FULs. The PM didn’t approve.

The COP is appointed by majority vote in the Lower House from the PolSC Merit List. It is not by the final say of the PM.

You do realize you just admitted to two things you ducking from admitting in the next thread
1. The COP has final say on granting of FULs i.e there is no fixed criteria which she has to abide by like say granting of a building permit by T&C once you satisfy defined criteria.
2. Rowley did say he doesn't want too much people having FULs. His actual words being that it's not the position of his govt to give FULs to prevent crime.
You really feel we don't read the other topics

1. Can a child be granted an FUL?
2. Please quote Rowley saying this.

1. If you read the subsections of section 17 you'd know no one under 25 can be granted an FUL along with other prohibitions. What it doesn't say is who can be granted or what criteria they need to meet. Subsection 1 says it's at the discretion of the COP. Let me break it down simple for illiterates, granny can give or not give whoever she feels, no reason necessary.
2. For the umpteenth time watch the damn video
And remember kids Alta classes are free

1. So it is not up to COP's discretion, there is an age criterion.
2. You cannot quote him because nowhere in any video he says he limits FULs. And the reality that you cannot quote or even cite in the video when he says what you claim is an overt attempt to deceive and be vague.

[redmanjp]

^provided the age is 25 and over, the COP has discretion- she is NOT obligated to give anyone 25 and over.

all the law says is under 25 u can't get any so she has no discretion in this case.

[alfa]

^provided the age is 25 and over, the COP has discretion- she is NOT obligated to give anyone 25 and over.

all the law says is under 25 u can't get any so she has no discretion in this case.

I gather habit is really stupid who copy and pastes to look otherwise. I'm still waiting for him to say what is the criteria to get an FUL other than if the COP feels to or not

[MaxPower]

What’s the latest with the Pepper Spray permits?

[redmanjp]

Stand your ground and more FUL's. 70% of crime will solve

just a lot more FULs would work- stand your ground law maybe a bit to far as it means u can shoot and kill even an unarmed mango thief. but most home invasions are by armed bandits so i would think u can legally fight fire with fire. tho u should be able to shoot if they only have a knife, because it may be more than 1 of them with knives vs your 1 gun.

[MaxPower]

Allyuh go ahead and give a set of Trinis FUL.

Watch bacchanal

[pugboy]

a big mammaguy, many persons i know applied and have not heard from the ful dept

What’s the latest with the Pepper Spray permits?

[Habit7]

^provided the age is 25 and over, the COP has discretion- she is NOT obligated to give anyone 25 and over.

all the law says is under 25 u can't get any so she has no discretion in this case.

I gather habit is really stupid who copy and pastes to look otherwise. I'm still waiting for him to say what is the criteria to get an FUL other than if the COP feels to or not

Can the COP give an FUL to a violent convict who got a sentence of over 3mths?

[alfa]

^provided the age is 25 and over, the COP has discretion- she is NOT obligated to give anyone 25 and over.

all the law says is under 25 u can't get any so she has no discretion in this case.

I gather habit is really stupid who copy and pastes to look otherwise. I'm still waiting for him to say what is the criteria to get an FUL other than if the COP feels to or not

Can the COP give an FUL to a violent convict who got a sentence of over 3mths?

Instead of asking who she cannot give to you tell me who she can actually give to and by what criteria. I can't believe your so stupid for one person

[pugboy]

maybe at the start because ful is ranking ting
yuh know short man syndrome small piggy ting
esp since it required bribes
a self esteem issue but after a while it will normalize out

Allyuh go ahead and give a set of Trinis FUL.

Watch bacchanal

[pugboy]

i recall gg send unmarked ttps cars up in carenage and the local gangsters tried to shoot the car and end up on the losing end badly

watching them chris vids where all them gangsters have full neighbourhood monitoring from afar with constant walkie talkie comms

how come ttps don’t employ those tactics to shake them hoods up and have them on their toes

mind you i think we all know the answer

[Mmoney607]

Well, anti gang legislation allows police to arrest organised bandits. Also police cannot kill bandits because that will violate existing legislation wrt murder. Police can respond to deadly force or the threat of deadly force but killing banditsu will be extra judicial murder.

There is nothing to indicate that Erla is the puppet of anyone, you are just parroting the rhetoric of the UNC who voted for here just like PNM. But you are distancing yourself from the UNC just like they are distancing themselves from her.

I specifically said “automatic rifles”. An AR-15 is a semi-automatic rifle.

There is standard criteria for a FUL according to Section 17 of the Firearms Act.


But then again, I’m illiterate.

So what is the AR-15?

The AR-15 was designed in the mid-1950s by the California-based small arms manufacturer ArmaLite. (“AR” stands for “ArmaLite Rifle,” not “assault rifle,” as is often assumed.) The original AR-15 had a “select fire” capability, giving users the option to shoot in semiautomatic mode; fully automatic mode, which continues firing until the trigger is released; or burst mode, which ejects three bullets per trigger pull.
It was intended for the U.S. military, which was in need of a lightweight rifle with expanded ammunition capacity. But after it failed to attract buyers, ArmaLite sold its AR-15 design to Colt, one of America’s oldest gunmakers. Colt made some design tweaks to the AR-15, and in 1963 it marketed the rifle (successfully) to the military as the M16. It developed a semiautomatic version of the AR-15 for the civilian market at around the same time.

https://www.thetrace.org/2022/06/ar15-r ... eapon-ban/

The AR-15 was the predecessor of the M-16, used by the US military. Both are select-fire, automatic rifles.

You must have probably meant the widely available AR-15 style rifle. Those are typically semiautomatic, but they are also available as select-fire, fully automatic rifles.

Look pnm in-fighting

[MaxPower]

maybe at the start because ful is ranking ting
yuh know short man syndrome small piggy ting
esp since it required bribes
a self esteem issue but after a while it will normalize out

Allyuh go ahead and give a set of Trinis FUL.

Watch bacchanal

Yeh pug, normalize out when they make the laws strict again because they jackox the scene

[Habit7]

I am listing out the criteria you claim doesn’t exist.

I am trying to make this a learning experience for you since you can’t read the Firearms Act Section 17 titled
“General provisions as to grant and issue of licences, certificates and permits.”

1. The COP has final say on granting of FULs i.e there is no fixed criteria which she has to abide by like say granting of a building permit by T&C once you satisfy defined criteria.

So when you say there is no fixed criteria and we already realise that just the age limit alone refutes your claim that there is no fixed criteria, I am willing to walk you through the other criteria.

So I ask again, can the COP give an FUL to a violent convict who got a sentence of over 3mths? Or is this just up to her discretion?




I was going to hit post but I know you will just spin, go on for 2 pages and refuse to accept that you were wrong. But here where your problem is:

What it doesn't say is who can be granted or what criteria they need to meet. Subsection 1 says it's at the discretion of the COP. Let me break it down simple for illiterates, granny can give or not give whoever she feels, no reason necessary.

17:01 says “Subject to this section (section 17) and to section 16, the grant of any licence, certificate or permit shall be in the discretion of the Commissioner of Police.”

What is the COP subject to in Section 17 before she can use her discretion?:
-Cannot be for a prohibited weapon
-Must be older than 25 years
-Cannot be a restricted person (the schedule explains this)
-It has to be for a person who needs it and not a hothead.
-Pays the fee
-Renewed every 3yrs
-Must be trained by an instructor before renewal
-Had an FUL before this Act.

So to say that the COP has no criteria to award FUL and does it by her own discretion is wrong. Just take the L and move on nah.