TriniTuner.com | Latest Event:
Moderator: 3ne2nr Mods
rfari wrote:Jai ho!
Listening to sat station here. He said that pnm against warner cus he like hindus.
ek4ever wrote:The truth of the matter is that Jack Warner is better than any other politician in Trinidad and Tobago. Why? Cause while all of them corrupt Jack is the only one who getting things done and give a damn about his constituents. All these other politicians are just a damn waste of time .... ALL AH DEM.
That's why support for Jack gonna get even bigger.
JACK WARNER FOR PRIME MINISTER!!!!!
rfari wrote:kurpal_v2 wrote:kaylex wrote:I notice some occurrences... certain vocal tuners does geh quiet at some integral times...
Call name
Kurps
Uml
Zoom
Toyota2nr
Equip2ripp
Bramms
Tobotusty
And some others. I sayin it in big. Meem fraid
nothing to contribute to the debate. Big fraud rfari wrote:What a coincidence zoom. Sat maharaj program just finish and he had nothing much to say about the jw issue. And u waltz in ched empty handed.
Habit7 wrote:pioneer wrote:I not amazed any more by the stupidity of many chunas.
The Ministers of W&I wants some changes made to the communications dept. because of how poorly they perform; they are pretty ineffective at informing the public about traffic changes and use some pretty archaic diagrams and signage. Didn't most of you complain last week when school opened back and there was insane traffic by grand bazaar? And that MOWI never informed anyone they were gonna close off three lanes?
Chunas yes, trying hard to get nowhere in life.
am Pioneer, Jack said that the Minister wants to make changes based on ethnicity, not any tuner.
zoom rader wrote:rfari wrote:What a coincidence zoom. Sat maharaj program just finish and he had nothing much to say about the jw issue. And u waltz in ched empty handed.
Nah bai, had to wuk plus them station doh wuk in south forest .
rfari wrote:zoom rader wrote:rfari wrote:What a coincidence zoom. Sat maharaj program just finish and he had nothing much to say about the jw issue. And u waltz in ched empty handed.
Nah bai, had to wuk plus them station doh wuk in south forest .
U didnt miss anything. Ppl sound rell bitter jed. Like hissing when they spoke. I was wondering 'is this real life?'. In anycase i realise that its a deep fear of pnm that drives the supporters of the pp and they support their party no matter what
zoom rader wrote:rfari wrote:zoom rader wrote:rfari wrote:What a coincidence zoom. Sat maharaj program just finish and he had nothing much to say about the jw issue. And u waltz in ched empty handed.
Nah bai, had to wuk plus them station doh wuk in south forest .
U didnt miss anything. Ppl sound rell bitter jed. Like hissing when they spoke. I was wondering 'is this real life?'. In anycase i realise that its a deep fear of pnm that drives the supporters of the pp and they support their party no matter what
mamoo ppl will always fear the PNM. PNM has done nothing to improve there image as being hostile, arrogant and racist. Rowley is bad for the PNM
zoom rader wrote:^^^ oh ho I see, calcutta ship was all a lie.
rfari wrote:zoom rader wrote:^^^ oh ho I see, calcutta ship was all a lie.
Nope. It was very real. and i specifically remember telling you that that's ur best incident to hold onto if u want to paint pnm as racists. Careful how u beat it tho.
zoom rader wrote:rfari wrote:zoom rader wrote:^^^ oh ho I see, calcutta ship was all a lie.
Nope. It was very real. and i specifically remember telling you that that's ur best incident to hold onto if u want to paint pnm as racists. Careful how u beat it tho.
But rfari one of the main reasons why ppl dont vote PNM is cus they are viewed as racist. Some MPs may not be racist but the ppl under them that run the PNM and the public offices with regards to employment and state resources are viewed as racist. Selwin Ryan did a report on this a while back and PNM failed to take notice and correct their mistakes.
Ask yourself why PNM not attracting the non-afro vote and why non afros do not wish to vote PNM.
rfari wrote:zoom rader wrote:rfari wrote:zoom rader wrote:^^^ oh ho I see, calcutta ship was all a lie.
Nope. It was very real. and i specifically remember telling you that that's ur best incident to hold onto if u want to paint pnm as racists. Careful how u beat it tho.
But rfari one of the main reasons why ppl dont vote PNM is cus they are viewed as racist. Some MPs may not be racist but the ppl under them that run the PNM and the public offices with regards to employment and state resources are viewed as racist. Selwin Ryan did a report on this a while back and PNM failed to take notice and correct their mistakes.
Ask yourself why PNM not attracting the non-afro vote and why non afros do not wish to vote PNM.
Evidence. Post it. Post the report and show the findings as well. This administration has overseen the largest and widest ethnic cleansing and warner even admitted to it.
About the afro and non afro vote. Same can be said about unc. It all boils down to the constituencies and strongholds. Look at lavrntille and central and most of south. Voting is along ethnic lines.east-west and tobago have shown that they were able to break free of the tribal voting. Which is good news for the country.
Confronting the statistical truth
Contributions to the debate on racial inequality in the public sector have always been flippantly dismissed as emotional, speculative and unsubstantiated. This is largely because of the absence of any proper research and statistical data.
In T&T we seem to prefer debating in the dark without the assistance of the candlelight of statistics. There has always been an official political fear or reluctance to confront the statistical reality.
I have compiled a table showing the most senior and powerful offices in the Public Service, using information supplied by the Service Commissions Department (Corrections are welcome).
Head of Dept Number
Indian 18
Non-Indian 87
Total 105
The information given was arranged under the following headings: heads of divisions, directors, chief technical officers, heads of departments and Permanent Secretaries.
What it shows is an alarming, unacceptable and glaring racial imbalance against Indo-Trinidadians that cries out for remedial action by the State. Of the 105 names listed, there are only 18 Indians.
The Public Service is the engine of the Government. It is responsible for implementing government’s policies and programmes and wields an awesome amount of power.
In 1993 the UWI’s Centre for Ethnic Studies had compiled a report on the employment practices in the public and private sector in T&T.
This candid and bold attempt to analyse the ethnic composition of the workforce broke new intellectual ground and was the first step towards achieving equal opportunity and racial equality in employment.
Professor Selwyn Ryan and Dr John La Guerre submitted their report to Prime Minister Manning in November 1993.
The findings of this pioneering survey investigation confirmed what many Indo-Trinidadians know for a long time: that there was a distinct racial imbalance in the Public Service that favoured Afro-Trinidadians.
The report concluded that Indians were “heavily under-represented,” except in areas where merit and technical criteria must prevail, as in the judicial and professional sectors, where Indians were more than adequately represented.”
This under-representation has always been a source of bitter resentment. It may very well be that this imbalance was not inspired by a concerted, systematic plan of racial discrimination against Indians. Economic, geo-political and cultural factors certainly influenced the racial composition of the Public Service.
At the time, Manning promised the Indo-Trinidadian community that his government would take “immediate steps” to redress the glaring inequality in the Public Service.
He lost the next general election some two years later without having done anything much towards implementing the recommendations of the report.
The situation in State enterprises was no different from the Public Service.
The report concluded, “Of the 17 companies studied, only five had a reasonable representation of Indo-Trinidadians. Six had Indo-Trinidadians on their boards, while on the remainder, they were underrepresented.”
The Government has made no secret of its desire to redress the ethnic imbalance in the entrepreneurial private sector.
Quite rightly, it has publicly bemoaned the absence of African entrepreneurs in the private sector and has set about aggressively trying to create African entrepreneurs via programmes such as Cepep, OJT, Must, Hype, Milat, Mypart, CCC, Ytepp, Gapp, TDC, Yapa, URP, Cape, Gate, etc.
Millions are being spent on these projects.
If the objective of government spending is to ensure racial equality in the private sector, why is nothing being done to redress the plight of Indians in the Public Service?
If the Government can groom African entrepreneurs who can own (not manage) hardwares, KFC, Pizza Hut, Mario’s Pizza, Burger Boys, MovieTowne, quarries, rum shops, groceries, banks, insurance companies, restaurants and organisations in the manufacturing sector, etc, I am happy.
Twenty per cent in our society has enjoyed 80 per cent of the national wealth for far too long.
But to focus the resources and energy of the State on redressing one form of inequity against Afro-Trinidadians while ignoring the glaring discrimination practised by State agencies in the Public Service and State enterprises against Indo-Trinidadians is to perpetuate the very thing you were trying to fix in the first place: unjustified racial inequality.
©2004-2005 Trinidad Publishing Company Limited
Sunday 3rd April, 2005
Anand Ramlogan
anand@tstt.net.tt
Confronting the statistical truth
Contributions to the debate on racial inequality in the public sector have always been flippantly dismissed as emotional, speculative and unsubstantiated. This is largely because of the absence of any proper research and statistical data.
In T&T we seem to prefer debating in the dark without the assistance of the candlelight of statistics. There has always been an official political fear or reluctance to confront the statistical reality.
I have compiled a table showing the most senior and powerful offices in the Public Service, using information supplied by the Service Commissions Department (Corrections are welcome).
Head of Dept Number
Indian 18
Non-Indian 87
Total 105
The information given was arranged under the following headings: heads of divisions, directors, chief technical officers, heads of departments and Permanent Secretaries.
What it shows is an alarming, unacceptable and glaring racial imbalance against Indo-Trinidadians that cries out for remedial action by the State. Of the 105 names listed, there are only 18 Indians.
The Public Service is the engine of the Government. It is responsible for implementing government’s policies and programmes and wields an awesome amount of power.
In 1993 the UWI’s Centre for Ethnic Studies had compiled a report on the employment practices in the public and private sector in T&T.
This candid and bold attempt to analyse the ethnic composition of the workforce broke new intellectual ground and was the first step towards achieving equal opportunity and racial equality in employment.
Professor Selwyn Ryan and Dr John La Guerre submitted their report to Prime Minister Manning in November 1993.
The findings of this pioneering survey investigation confirmed what many Indo-Trinidadians know for a long time: that there was a distinct racial imbalance in the Public Service that favoured Afro-Trinidadians.
The report concluded that Indians were “heavily under-represented,” except in areas where merit and technical criteria must prevail, as in the judicial and professional sectors, where Indians were more than adequately represented.”
his under-representation has always been a source of bitter resentment. It may very well be that this imbalance was not inspired by a concerted, systematic plan of racial discrimination against Indians. Economic, geo-political and cultural factors certainly influenced the racial composition of the Public Service.
At the time, Manning promised the Indo-Trinidadian community that his government would take “immediate steps” to redress the glaring inequality in the Public Service.
He lost the next general election some two years later without having done anything much towards implementing the recommendations of the report.
The situation in State enterprises was no different from the Public Service.
The report concluded, “Of the 17 companies studied, only five had a reasonable representation of Indo-Trinidadians. Six had Indo-Trinidadians on their boards, while on the remainder, they were underrepresented.”
The Government has made no secret of its desire to redress the ethnic imbalance in the entrepreneurial private sector.
Quite rightly, it has publicly bemoaned the absence of African entrepreneurs in the private sector and has set about aggressively trying to create African entrepreneurs via programmes such as Cepep, OJT, Must, Hype, Milat, Mypart, CCC, Ytepp, Gapp, TDC, Yapa, URP, Cape, Gate, etc.
Millions are being spent on these projects.
If the objective of government spending is to ensure racial equality in the private sector, why is nothing being done to redress the plight of Indians in the Public Service?
If the Government can groom African entrepreneurs who can own (not manage) hardwares, KFC, Pizza Hut, Mario’s Pizza, Burger Boys, MovieTowne, quarries, rum shops, groceries, banks, insurance companies, restaurants and organisations in the manufacturing sector, etc, I am happy.
Twenty per cent in our society has enjoyed 80 per cent of the national wealth for far too long.
But to focus the resources and energy of the State on redressing one form of inequity against Afro-Trinidadians while ignoring the glaring discrimination practised by State agencies in the Public Service and State enterprises against Indo-Trinidadians is to perpetuate the very thing you were trying to fix in the first place: unjustified racial inequality.
THE GREAT RACE DEBATE
Report points to racial bias, not racism
By Kevin Baldeosingh
Story Created: Apr 2, 2011 at 10:38 PM ECT
Story Updated: Apr 3, 2011 at 11:40 AM ECT
Even if senior members of the Police Service aren't racist, racial bias may still be preventing Indo-Trinidadians from being promoted in the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service (TTPS).
This is the conclusion of a 1993 report on ethnicity in the Service, as well as recent psychological research on prejudice.[/size] Criminologist Ramesh Deosaran says, "In sensitive matters, research shows that people tend to trust their own. But I'm not sure that applies to Trinidad." Deosaran, who has done consultancy work for the TTPS, notes, "In my experience, Indo officers are not better or worse than Afro ones in terms of taking reports or conducting investigations efficiently."
Chairman of the Police Service Commission, Nizam Mohammed, sparked controversy last week when he told a Joint Select Committee of Parliament that Indo-Trinidadians do not feel protected by police officers became most members of the TTPS are Afro-Trinidadians. "You cannot hope to revive or restore the confidence of the public in the Police Service, if you do not have a properly structured Police Service," Mohammed said. He cited figures showing that 100 per cent of senior superintendents were Afro, and 70 per cent of superintendents. Mohammed also erroneously claimed that 50 per cent of the population was of East Indian origin (the actual figure is 40 per cent, with Afros 37.5 per cent) and said, "They have to feel protected by the Police Service and, when they see the hierarchy of the Police Service, it is as imbalanced as is reflected in these figures."
Professor Deosaran believes that an ethnic configuration will help promote community policing. He finds that the powers-that-be have already mishandled the matter, however. "The Government should have had a more scientific approach," he says, adding that the statistics cited by Mohammed are meaningless. "Until we know how many Indians applied to join the Police Service, any remarks about ethnic bias in the Police Service appear scurrilous and uninformed," he said in a telephone interview with the Sunday Express.
A 2009 ad published by the Police Service, with names and photos of applicants who were being considered for enlistment, showed that nearly half the men were Indo. Interestingly, although there were almost as many female as male applicants considered, only nine per cent of the women were Indo. In their 1993 report, titled Ethnicity and Employment Practices, political analysts Selwyn Ryan and John La Guerre wrote: "It must be borne in mind that Indo-Trinidadian females were discouraged by their families from applying to the Police Service." Another 2009 ad for applicants chosen to write the examination for Special Reserve Police officers in that same year showed a different configuration: only 18 per cent had Indian surnames, and just 36 per cent of all applicants were female.
Deosaran says that when, as an Independent Senator, he chaired a JSC they used to ask the Commission about racial bias in the TTPS. "But it was always a dodgy issue," he recalls, since then-PSC chairman Christopher Thomas always had the same response – that the Police Service was not motivated by race at all. This is unlikely to be true, however, if only because nearly all human beings do have racial perspectives which are present from birth.
Thus, even individuals in professions requiring impartiality tend to display bias in their decisions. American legal scholar Cass Sunstein has performed a statistical analysis of judgements made by three-panel Appeal Court judges in the United States over a 20-year period. In the American system, these judges are appointed by the US President. "If accompanied by two other judges appointed by a Republican president, a Republican-appointed judge is especially likely to vote according to conservative stereotypes – to invalidate environmental regulations, to strike down affirmative action or campaign finance laws, and to reject claims of discrimination made by women and handicapped people," Sunstein writes in his book Why Societies need Dissent. "The same pattern holds for Democrat-appointed judges, who are far more likely to vote according to liberal stereotypes if accompanied by two other Democratic appointees. In this way, group influences create ideological amplification...But the evidence reveals another kind of social influence on judges. Sitting with two judges from a different party, judges show ideological dampening. Sitting with two Democrats, an individual Republican is often far less likely to vote in the stereotypically conservative fashion... The same is true for Democratic judges."
Similarly, American political scientists Andrew Martin and Kevin Quinn created an algorithm which, based on judges' prejudices and ideology, predicted how US Supreme Court justices would vote. A contest was arranged to test the algorithm's efficacy against the collective predictions of 83 legal experts (law professors, lawyers, and legal analysts). "The experts lost," writes econometrician and lawyer Ian Ayres in his book Super Crunchers. "For every argued case during the 2002 term, the model predicted 75 per cent of the Court's affirm/reverse results correctly, while the legal experts collectively got only 59.1 per cent right." This implies that ideological bias outweighed legal principles.
If judges' decisions are prejudiced, the same is likely to be the case for other persons in the legal system. One local study, which used an Afro-Trinidadian defendant, found that race was a factor in verdicts by juries when the evidence was unclear. "In levels of high evidential ambiguity, jurors in both Afro- and Indo-dominated juries displayed an in-group bias," writes UWI criminologist Derek Chadee in his 2002 book Trial by Peers. "In the case of the Afro-dominated juries, the bias was positive (in favour of the accused). In the case of the Indo-dominated juries, the negative bias arising out of the majority race of the juries and the race of the accused resulted in punitive behaviour against the accused." In response to an emailed query, Chadee admitted that his experiment did not test for jurors faced an Indo defendant, so there are no data to see if the same results would have obtained in reverse – i.e. in a case where the evidence was unclear, if Indos would have favoured the defendant and Afros been more likely to convict.
In their 1993 report, Ryan and La Guerre are blunt about the race factor in the TTPS. "It appears that (race) is sometimes dominant over achievement considerations in the selection of recruits to the Police Service," they write. "Religion, particularly Hinduism, is linked to race as a factor in selection elimination."
However, Ryan and La Guerre also noted that Indo sergeants tended to be younger than their Afro counterparts, which they suggest indicated a "faster rate of promotion of Indo-Trinidadian sergeants and inspectors as well as the Indo-Trinidadian Assistant Commissioner of Police." This seems to show that racial bias, if it was a factor, only operated above this rank. While insisting that the interview panels mostly consisted of "men and women of integrity", Ryan and La Guerre admitted that "Indo-Trinidadian performance in interviews is usually below the standard expected of them because of their good academic records. On the other hand, Afro-Trinidadians perform better in interviews than would be expected from their academic records."
They conclude: "Given the fact that Trinidad is a multi-ethnic society with nationals belonging to two highly divergent mainstream cultures, namely Indo-Trinidadian and Afro-Creole, it is to be expected that cultural factors could account for differentials in interview performance in favour of Afro-Trinidadians."
A significant drop in the percentage of Indos accepted for training in the TTPS (from 34 percent to 13) occurred in 1991, the year when the People's National Movement returned to office. Even so, this ratio is not reflected in the upper ranks cited by Mohammed.
The officers responsible for promotions told Ryan and La Guerre that they would welcome the expertise of a psychologist to improve the process. Deosaran believes that unconscious bias "can be removed or suppressed by having people accountable for their decisions."
And the editors of Are We Born Racist?, a collection of scholarly essays on bias, conclude: "Though we seem to have deeply entrenched propensities to harbour racial prejudice, the research...also shows that we have innate skills to help overcome these prejudices [but] we need to make systemic changes in the ways our educational curricula are developed, employees managed, and police officers trained."
pioneer wrote:I'm always subject to indian jokes/stereotypes/picong, every divali, indian arrival day, eid, pagwa anything indo-related is always some crap like "so when we gettin kumar boi?"
or "big lime in caura this weekend?"
"wam yuh eh goin arrival celebrations?"
"you de only indian I know doh like curry"
"bring roti fuh we nah"
very srs
rfari wrote:pios, you use a link or your performance in the interviews was at the standard expected of you because of your good academic records?
rfari wrote:pioneer wrote:I'm always subject to indian jokes/stereotypes/picong, every divali, indian arrival day, eid, pagwa anything indo-related is always some crap like "so when we gettin kumar boi?"
or "big lime in caura this weekend?"
"wam yuh eh goin arrival celebrations?"
"you de only indian I know doh like curry"
"bring roti fuh we nah"
very srs
those comments make you feel hurt?
pioneer wrote:rfari wrote:pios, you use a link or your performance in the interviews was at the standard expected of you because of your good academic records?
Not sure if i'm with you here, interview performance has nothing to do with academic records. It's all about baffling them with bs and saying what they want to hear.
I see it for myself, current recruitment and hiring practices; indos are negged for no reason and even bypassed for promotion in favor of curly haired folk who dumb as rocks.
Which is why i'm going back to the military when i'm done giving my dues to england revenue/the state.
pioneer wrote:rfari wrote:pioneer wrote:I'm always subject to indian jokes/stereotypes/picong, every divali, indian arrival day, eid, pagwa anything indo-related is always some crap like "so when we gettin kumar boi?"
or "big lime in caura this weekend?"
"wam yuh eh goin arrival celebrations?"
"you de only indian I know doh like curry"
"bring roti fuh we nah"
very srs
those comments make you feel hurt?
Well they certainly don't like when i tell them HDC havin sale on house
nomsayin?
Return to “Ole talk and more Ole talk”
Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 71 guests
