What the Best Split level AC Units...Carrier LG, Panasonic?

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

This is another pic for maybe design purposes no room to fit the PCB and save wire cost or whatever all inverters have PCB circuitry on the outdoor condenser.

[nervewrecker]

I asking. Never been in the condenser of one.

Saw a board like that in a 3 tonne jack frost. Non inverter type. Like it was some sort of protection device and had burned out from a power surge of some sort. Had to bypass it to get it going.
I didn't work on that, just observed.

[nervewrecker]

Are those pics yours and is that board connected to the main board inside?

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

^Nah those pics are from online if you search and read up on Inverter condenser PCB boards you will find a lot of these.

Maybe 3 Tonne units are built different then, perhaps. But yeah Inverter units all have outdoor circuitry for sure, if buying its best to spend the extra for LG but be warned even LG inverters give trouble due to our climate but I am sure its far superior to sticker brands given LG is one of the top AC brands in the world

Courts have the 9K BTU LG Inverter for $4000 and free installation. (They say 10k but LG site says 9K)

http://www.shopcourts.com/trinidadandto ... 0-btu.html

http://www.lg.com/pa/aire-acondicionado ... lg-VM092CS

You can also get the 24K BTU Inverter for $6600 my friend has one its dead silent and he sealed his living room very good so he does save current with it

http://www.shopcourts.com/trinidadandto ... 0-btu.html

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

I know for a fact my 12K Frigidaire sticker brand don't have any circuit board like that on the outside. The only board it has I think is at the bottom where the 3 wires connect to near the freon line. But thats a basic simple tiny board thats nothing close to what these huge inverter boards look like. Here is a discussion about it

http://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/ ... lty-sea-ai

2
down vote
favorite

The reliability of inverter air conditioners in humid climates with salty sea air

I'm considering buying a new split unit air conditioner for my home. Actually, this will be for a room that is planned as a short-term rental. I'm located in Bombay, India, now referred to as Mumbai.

One question I am facing is whether an inverter or a regular air-conditioner is a better choice. I was told by one dealer that inverter air-conditioners can be problematic choices, especially in humid climates near the sea. This pretty much describes my home, which is less than a kilometer from the shores of the Arabian Sea. I checked this out on the web a bit. While I did not find much information, I did find some supporting evidence. Notably, Daikin Inverter AC Unit Fail - Moisture / Salts Damage to PCB.

Basically, the issue is that an inverter is rather more complex electronically than a regular air-conditioner, because it is doing more. This manifests itself in more complex circuitry and more circuit boards. These are referred to here as PCBs (presumably Printed Circuit boards), Given salty damp air, these circuits corrode over time. And in an inverter, there are more of these circuits. And they apparently cost more to repair. The bottom line, then, is that if you are near the sea, don't use an inverter, because you will have more frequent breakdowns and higher maintenance costs.

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

^ And thats exactly what the AC tech guy told my friend from freeport when he came to install his LG Inverter AC. He said the outdoor PCB in inverters fail quick in Trinidad I guess its more complex and sensitive to humidity than regular AC that has far less circuitry on outdoor.

[nervewrecker]

How near is near to the sea?

Apart from that I dont understand your humid argument. If that was the case the boards in the evaporator would suffer similar fates too, no? And these boards are right over the compressor. The hottest part in the air conditioner.

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

How near is near to the sea?

Apart from that I dont understand your humid argument. If that was the case the boards in the evaporator would suffer similar fates too, no? And these boards are right over the compressor. The hottest part in the air conditioner.

The theory behind it is that since the evaporator is inside the cooled room the board on the evaporator unit does not suffer from humidity since the evaporator coils remove the humidity from the room which I think is the second biggest benefit of an AC after cooling. And since the condenser is outside and it literally removes heat from the freon and has to deal with out door harsh humidity plus this nasty heat from the compressor same time this = suicide for circuitry.

Both removal of humidity and a cooler temperature makes a dramatic difference in electronics and less humidity = less corrosion on solder.

Thats a good question though how far is far from the sea? I doubt the sea is an issue if you live say Curepe or Piarco. But I would assume its an issue if you live Chaguaramas, POS, or Grande or Toco etc. I would assume living anywhere in Tobago is a big concern to sea blast.

You know its very humid when you sweating like crazy but its also humid when you don't even sweat assuming the place is cool. If the place is very hot and you are not sweating then yeah the humidity is low. The thing is our humidity level varies, some days its perfect I don't even have to use the AC. Other days man its nasty, sweat like mad.

Currently right now the Humidity is 94%

https://www.google.com/search?q=trinida ... channel=fs

[neexis]

Can anyone here speak about the pros/cons of using commercial air conditioning [cooling an entire floor 2500 sq ft] vs multiple split units - one per room/zone? Space will be partitioned into about 10 smaller offices/zones; some with ceiling high partitions, some with openings.

It's common to see entire houses in the US being cooled by one unit but hardly ever down here.

Commercial unit cons:
Ducting has to be run throughout the ceiling
Ducting maintenance?
If unit breaks down, entire building affected
Entire building will be cooled to one temperature (unless different zones can have different settings?)

Pros:
Neater installation
Condenser/Compressor unit in one location
Possibly better power consumption?

Split Unit cons:
Will require larger number of units (one unit per room/zone = 10-12 for entire floor)
Each unit needs to have piping run for water condensation run-off
Power consumption might be higher?

Pros:
Can cool those zones which need it, switch unused rooms off
Individual temperature control per room
Possibly cheaper to maintain?


Can anyone here chime in on use of either unit in this scenario, commenting on power consumption and any other pros/cons?

[nervewrecker]

Ed, if the air is dry, vapor pressure will be low. Water trapped in the unit will quickly vaporise back into the room. Hence over sized units tend to make you feel sticky.

Also, for moisture to condensate on a surface the temp usually has to be low. In the condenser temps aren't usually low.

[nervewrecker]

Can anyone here speak about the pros/cons of using commercial air conditioning [cooling an entire floor 2500 sq ft] vs multiple split units - one per room/zone? Space will be partitioned into about 10 smaller offices/zones; some with ceiling high partitions, some with openings.

It's common to see entire houses in the US being cooled by one unit but hardly ever down here.

Commercial unit cons:
Ducting has to be run throughout the ceiling
Ducting maintenance?
If unit breaks down, entire building affected
Entire building will be cooled to one temperature (unless different zones can have different settings?)

Pros:
Neater installation
Condenser/Compressor unit in one location
Possibly better power consumption?

Split Unit cons:
Will require larger number of units (one unit per room/zone = 10-12 for entire floor)
Each unit needs to have piping run for water condensation run-off
Power consumption might be higher?

Pros:
Can cool those zones which need it, switch unused rooms off
Individual temperature control per room
Possibly cheaper to maintain?


Can anyone here chime in on use of either unit in this scenario, commenting on power consumption and any other pros/cons?

Seems it hard to get ducting right this rounds (good men hard to find). Saw some short cuts done in some buildings where some rooms / partitions have very little air flow while vents screaming in others. Rough estimate is 400cfm of air flow per tonne (12000btu) of heat load but there is a bit more to sizing.

Does the building have a three phase power supply? You might come out better on power consumption that way.

Very rare those commercial units go down, most times is the belt on the evaporator motor burst. Thats a 5 minute job if so long.

Could use cost as a factor when choosing as the bigger units are a bit costly while split units dog cheap this rounds. Not sure what you mean by some offices open but if is multiple offices and you looking at multiple units consider if one unit fails the whole floor dont have to go home.
Drain pipe can be neatly installed.

[neexis]

Thanks fellas.

What about maintenance of the ducts? Is that something that has to be done... with dust and buildup over time?

@nervewrecker- the building does have three phase current.

By open I mean - some offices will have partitions all the way to the ceiling, whereas some of the other spaces, may have partial partitions, or multiple/wide doorways eg. kitchen space. Just trying to figure out airflow as opposed to putting a unit in every single room.

[wavehunter]

I am looking to get a 24K and 36K split unit for my home. Any suggestions on the brands I should be looking at for these sizes

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

Ed, if the air is dry, vapor pressure will be low. Water trapped in the unit will quickly vaporise back into the room. Hence over sized units tend to make you feel sticky.

Also, for moisture to condensate on a surface the temp usually has to be low. In the condenser temps aren't usually low.

Yeah thats why they say don't oversize an AC in a room.

Mine drips a LOT of water so I know mine is good I does tend to run it at like 23c

[nervewrecker]

Oversizing allows for short cycling of the compressor and you don't have a dry vapor going back to the compressor so bit by bit you screwing it up.

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

Yeah I have like a 10x10 room here and a 12K BTU Frigidaire split. I think this is a perfect size if I am going to sleep I open the door in my PC room to my bedroom so the cold air comes through that other room is a 12x10. In that case I will run the AC higher like 26c cause I like to sleep with a fan I need the noise because of certain arseholes who does be shouting and waking up people the fan does drown out the external noise a good bit. Plus it circulates the air so lovely I point the fan towards the ceiling.

[arbor_mist]

Good day,
I am looking to install a 36,000 btu unit, and have to decide between a Lennox and an Innovair. Can anyone advise on this?

[HSA]

Good day,
I am looking to install a 36,000 btu unit, and have to decide between a Lennox and an Innovair. Can anyone advise on this?

Heard innovair are harder to repair....also heard lennox is one of the better ac's...i have a lennox 12k but its too soon to give a review...but good so far

[HSA]

just got a GE (green energy) 12k installed for 2300 in ah upstairs house.....pricewise was good but i am getting mixed reviews on this unit. didnt find alot about this unit on this forum either. Any experiences with this brand of unit?? any common problems i should look out for??

They alright, closer to the bottom of the barrel quality wise.
Have a lot on the market so I assume parts readily available.

Problems are the usual usual, see if the cooling capacity decreases within a few weeks if so much. It would be an indication that there is a leak in the system. Common issue with techs doing half way work.

Did the use a vacume pump when installing it btw?

Some problems are covered up nicely btw.

IMG_20160912_091020.jpg

See anything wrong here?

No vac pump...just installed the indoor unit...run the lines tru...installed the outdoor unit and connect everything up...

Whats the issue with not vacumin the lines? Should i get a better tech to redo the installation?? Is it worh it?

[nervewrecker]

just got a GE (green energy) 12k installed for 2300 in ah upstairs house.....pricewise was good but i am getting mixed reviews on this unit. didnt find alot about this unit on this forum either. Any experiences with this brand of unit?? any common problems i should look out for??

They alright, closer to the bottom of the barrel quality wise.
Have a lot on the market so I assume parts readily available.

Problems are the usual usual, see if the cooling capacity decreases within a few weeks if so much. It would be an indication that there is a leak in the system. Common issue with techs doing half way work.

Did the use a vacume pump when installing it btw?

Some problems are covered up nicely btw.

IMG_20160912_091020.jpg

See anything wrong here?

No vac pump...just installed the indoor unit...run the lines tru...installed the outdoor unit and connect everything up...

Whats the issue with not vacumin the lines? Should i get a better tech to redo the installation?? Is it worh it?

Well there went your warranty.
Some allow some gas to run through the lines to get rid of the air in it. Not every effective.
You need to evacuate the air from in the lines because it contains moisture and it can corrode parts internally. Also, water can turn to ice when the temp in the lines drop and clog the capillary tubes.
Water + refrigerant + oil = acid btw. Will eat out the lines from inside out.

[Kronik]

just got a GE (green energy) 12k installed for 2300 in ah upstairs house.....pricewise was good but i am getting mixed reviews on this unit. didnt find alot about this unit on this forum either. Any experiences with this brand of unit?? any common problems i should look out for??

They alright, closer to the bottom of the barrel quality wise.
Have a lot on the market so I assume parts readily available.

Problems are the usual usual, see if the cooling capacity decreases within a few weeks if so much. It would be an indication that there is a leak in the system. Common issue with techs doing half way work.

Did the use a vacume pump when installing it btw?

Some problems are covered up nicely btw.

IMG_20160912_091020.jpg

See anything wrong here?

No vac pump...just installed the indoor unit...run the lines tru...installed the outdoor unit and connect everything up...

Whats the issue with not vacumin the lines? Should i get a better tech to redo the installation?? Is it worh it?

Well there went your warranty.
Some allow some gas to run through the lines to get rid of the air in it. Not every effective.
You need to evacuate the air from in the lines because it contains moisture and it can corrode parts internally. Also, water can turn to ice when the temp in the lines drop and clog the capillary tubes.
Water + refrigerant + oil = acid btw. Will eat out the lines from inside out.

This will cause premature failure of your compressor. Once your see the guy installing your AC not moving with a vacuume pump, run him

[cherrypopper]

My ac(s)were installed almost 10 years ago and no vacuum pump and the two failures were relay and capacitor.

[Kronik]

My ac(s)were installed almost 10 years ago and no vacuum pump and the two failures were relay and capacitor.

Was that using the same type of gas and pressure as current systems? And was that installing using pre pressure systems (using the gas that the units came with) without additional gas?

[nervewrecker]

It can been done and has been done but it's not a reliable method of evacuating lines. Gopaul luck ain't see Paul luck

[fireworks]

Need to get a split aircon unit installed tomorrow near the water wheel in Diego Martin. Can you guys recommend someone?

[HSA]

Fellas...is it normal for water to condense around these two connections?? The drain off is working fine bdw..just wondering about this

[nervewrecker]

Newer units have the expansion device in the condenser so both lines are wet.
The ones with the expansion device in the evaporator will have only the bigger line wet. It's below the temp that water will condensate (approx 60 degrees F at most)

[Kronik]

Also something to take note of with units now, many of them are not coming with high/low pressure switches (cost saving measures), if your gas is low, the compressor continues to run with insufficient gas and overheats and eventually burns out when the insulation from the windings melt out

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

^ What about LG? they also doing those cost cutting measures?

[Kronik]

I really can't say which manufacturers doing it. But you see the cheap ones (2600 for a 12k BTU for example), are the ones who almost guaranteed not to have it. I would say a physical check of your unit for it if you want to know, but if you looking for one to buy, ask about that, could save you in the long run.

Units from long ago had that standard, but cost cutting now removed it. We did some servicing in a bunch of units in work, only 2 of 15 had the switch, and those are old units