OWTU TO SERVE STRIKE NOTICE ON PETROTRIN

[Redman]

Leaving u with some homework...

Class, today for homework you will do research on the cost of electricity in other caribean islands including barbados our nextdoor neighours.. and identify the reason why their prices differ from ours.

Cuz we charge them for the oil that we export in order to convert to Nat Gas in order to re import it to generate electricity...

Petrotrin gives us a discount cuz there is less transportation associated with our electricity delivery.

It eh have nuttin to do with the GORTT to generally subsidize energy as a simple way to share the benefits of the hydrocarbon resources.

Its BC's air allyuh still breathing it....

[bluesclues]

Leaving u with some homework...

Class, today for homework you will do research on the cost of electricity in other caribean islands including barbados our nextdoor neighours.. and identify the reason why their prices differ from ours.

Cuz we charge them for the oil that we export in order to convert to Nat Gas in order to re import it to generate electricity...

Petrotrin gives us a discount cuz there is less transportation associated with our electricity delivery.

It eh have nuttin to do with the GORTT to generally subsidize energy as a simple way to share the benefits of the hydrocarbon resources.

Its BC's air allyuh still breathing it....

Im glad you here to fill in the details.

Tell me what i have wrong or missing. And this is majorly from the information uve provided on the forum over the years.

1) we dont drill our own oil a foreign company does
2) the foreign company pays some royalties to t&t but basically charges half the price of wti for extracting the oil from the ground
3)after royalties t&t will remain with about 60-70% of the revenues after processing and exporting oil and petroleum based products

Summary we already losing out on 30-40% of our revenues because tt basically has to purchase it from the drilling company, also referred to as a 'producer'. With petrotrin as a state owned organisation paired with ttec also a state owned organisation, the overheads would be lower on ttec.

My postulation is that if petrotrin is privatised. The current setup becomes open to restructuring and that includes the cost of delivery to ttec. If ttec overheads rise wont they distribute and transfer that unto the users of their electricity service?

Also, trinidad is the only country that enjoys a .03 cents usd/Kwh while other countries which do not have state owned petroleum companies pay in excess of .30 cents usd. Ur saying, in your professional, knowledgeable and experienced opinion, that if we sell petrotrin, and it is privatised so that T&T no longer owns it or controls it's internal policies, that you can guarantee there will be no rise in cost to our government as well as state owned organisations which depend on petroleum products to provide national services.... including ttec?

[bluesclues]

Privatising petrotrin will mean higher electricity costs. That means the .03 cents you currently pay per kilowatt hour will go to .30. So if u like the idea of paying an electricity bill 10x what u pay now. Go ahead and privatise. Government cant tell a private company how much t charge. Only person gonna win is the new owners who will digout allyuh eye until is open war on our streets in the fight for food and resources.

What does Petrotrin have to do with electricity??

Ermmm.. u knw how electricity is generated locally? What u think ttec des use to provide the country with electricity? Hopsbread from yummy's bakery? Lol

I know there are two Powergen generating facilities in Trinidad, 1 TGU and 1 Trinity Power who all use Natural Gas to generate electricity.

Awares me of which generation station that uses liquid fuel as its primary source of power??

Do the homewrk i will correct your work when i get back. Im sure u will start answering some of ur own questions in the research.

May google be your guide

No one can be so dumb so clearly you have to be crazy!!!!

TTEC
1/Scarborough Power Station, Darrel Spring Road, Scarborough - Scarborough Power Station has an installed capacity of approximately 11MW and is used primarily for standby power. The facility is a diesel engine generating station that is located in the heart of the capital city of Tobago.
Cove Power Station, Cove Eco-Industrial and Business Park at Lowlands, Tobago

2/The Cove Power Station has an installed capacity of 65.6 megawatts (MW). There are four (4) Wartsila units, each with a capacity of 16.4 MW with dual fuel capability (both natural gas and diesel). Start of commercial operations: The plant was commissioned on October 23rd, 2009. The Cove Estate Gas receiving facilities were officially commissioned on January 14th, 2013. However, the Cove Estate Power Plant turbines began using natural gas after September 2013.

Independent Power Producers
Power Generation Company of Trinidad and Tobago (POWERGEN)
Their individual capacities are:
3/ Point Lisas : 838 MW - In 1978 two 20,000 kilowatt Simple Cycle Gas Turbine-Generator units were added, increasing the total installed capacity of the Power Station to 128 MW and providing “Black Start Capability” which is the ability to start up independently of the power grid. Between 1980-1982, three additional 88,000 kilowatt (88MW) units and four 62,500 kilowatt (62.5MW) units were installed, bringing the total installed capacity to 642,000 kilowatts (642MW)

4/ Penal : 236 MW - this Plant consisted of two GE Frame7 Gas Turbines, each exhausting into a Heat Recovery Steam Generator (HRSG) and one GE Steam Turbine, having design steam conditions of 850 lb/inch2 and temperature of 950oF.

5/Trinity Power Ltd, Point Lisas
The facility of TPL consists of six (3) General Electric (GE) simple cycle gas turbines rated for a combined output of 225 MW. The Plant is also equipped with a 1.5 MW black start diesel generator.

6/Trinidad Generation Unlimited (TGU) operates a 720MW combined cycle (CC) power generation plant on approximately 16 hectares of land at Union Industrial Estate in La Brea. It was originally conceived as a 60%-40% joint venture between AES Corporation (a US–based corporation) and the Government of Trinidad and Tobago with funding in the form of debt financing from the international financial market. With the collapse of the financial markets in 2008, Government assumed majority ownership of the project and responsibility for its financing. The facility cost approximately $US740 million or $TT4.7 billion. The plant consists of six (6) GE gas turbines rated for a combined output of 450 MW. Waste heat from the exhaust of these gas turbines is utilized by six Heat Recovery Steam Generators to produce steam. The steam produced by this waste heat is used to power two (2) steam turbines. These produce an additional 270 MW of power without the use of any additional natural gas.

Source - Min of Energy and Powergen websites

I will still give u 5 marks out of 20 because u did something and brought relevant information. But that wasnt the homework.

[Redman]

bluesclues wrote:
Privatising petrotrin will mean higher electricity costs.

so what does petrotrin have to do with the cost of electricity??

[bluesclues]

bluesclues wrote:
Privatising petrotrin will mean higher electricity costs.

so what does petrotrin have to do with the cost of electricity??

Where they get diesel and gas for the generators from?

[rawCpoppa]

Why allyuh does even bother responding to bluesclues is beyond me.

[rawCpoppa]

[Redman]

bluesclues wrote:
Privatising petrotrin will mean higher electricity costs.

so what does petrotrin have to do with the cost of electricity??

Where they get diesel and gas for the generators from?

You tell us breddo-you made the statement

[Dizzy28]

bluesclues wrote:
Privatising petrotrin will mean higher electricity costs.

so what does petrotrin have to do with the cost of electricity??

Where they get diesel and gas for the generators from?

You tell us breddo-you made the statement

I think blues feel is gasoline and not ng they using

[bluesclues]

bluesclues wrote:
Privatising petrotrin will mean higher electricity costs.

so what does petrotrin have to do with the cost of electricity??

Where they get diesel and gas for the generators from?

You tell us breddo-you made the statement

Isnt it the obvious answer? The gas coming from the half cooked channa in the doubles yuh does buy.

[The_Honourable]

The strike that never was!

The state of high anxiety and stress which gripped this country for the past few weeks over the prospect of a strike by the Oilfields Workers' Trade Union (OWTU) at Petrotrin, the national oil company, brought to my mind the well-known quotation, attributed to Abraham Lincoln, that “You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.”

I recalled that quotation because of the collective sigh of relief uttered by many persons in the country when it was announced that a settlement had been reached and the strike had been averted. The headline in the Express on January 10 in one word said it all: “Whew”.

There were some persons, however, who did not have to exhale because they never held their breath. From the very beginning they were able to see through all the bluff and the bluster being thrown into the public space by OWTU president general Ancel Roget, on the one hand and the Government on the other. Such persons were able to discern, at the core of all the threats and warnings, the cynical charade being perpetrated on the workers of Petrotrin and the citizens of the country generally.

Amongst such discerning persons who smelt the rat was one letter writer to the Express, a certain Sahadeo Ragoonanan who, in his letter stated: “Neither the Government nor the OWTU has fooled anyone by their silly antics and posturings. It pains me to think that this Government has the audacity to attempt to pull wool over the general population's eyes. That episode with the OWTU has to be the biggest sham of recent times.”

The UWI's Dr Bishnu Ragoonath also saw through the charade. In words more diplomatic than those of the letter writer, he has suggested that “politics” may have played a hand in settlement between the OWTU and the Government which led to the cancelling of strike action by the union, and he described the whole episode as, “a strategy to ensure both the Government and the OWTU leadership come out as winners. Both parties achieved their objectives.”

But it was former PNM government minister Mariano Browne who put his finger on the central feature which gave rise to the charade. Mr Browne reminded the country of the memorandum of understanding (MOU) which was signed between the PNM and the Joint Trade Union Movement (JTUM) led by Mr Roget, just prior to the General Elections of September 2015.

This MOU, which Mr Browne has described as being based on “narrow self-interest” and not reflective of “the interest of the national community,” committed the PNM Government to operating, with regard to labour, within a framework of mutual respect and collaboration. Whatever this might have meant in terms of other industrial relations issues, central to it was the issue of the relationship between Petrotrin and the OWTU in the context of the very difficult decisions which would have to be taken if the company was to be brought back to any semblance of viability.

In this regard both Prime Minister Rowley and the chairman of the board of Petrotrin, Andrew Jupiter have, on several occasions, declared publicly that the OWTU had to be an integral part of any solution to the Petrotrin problem. And, in his presentation of the 2017 budget, the Minister of Finance stated: “Accordingly, it is the Government's intention to enter into discussions early in 2017 with the Oilfields Workers' Trade Union, and the company, to see how best we can work together to resolve Petrotrin's issues.”

So that was the challenge. In specific terms the question was “how to work together” in such a way as not to compromise Mr Roget's image as a militant unionist and anger the membership of the union even as the Government gained general public support for taking drastic and radical action with respect to restructuring the company.

The fact that the company and the union had not settled any collective agreements since 2010 and that negotiations for two successive collective agreements were ongoing simultaneously provided an ideal context in which to create political theatre. As soon as Mr Roget won re-election as president general of the OWTU he began to threaten strike action which in turn gave the Government the opportunity to put into the public space all the dismal and dire facts about Petrotrin's economic position and to declare it a “ward of the Ministry of Finance”.

There is no question that the strategy worked. As Dr Ragoonath stated, “Both parties achieved their objectives.” Mr Roget's reputation as a militant, rabble-rousing trade unionist remains intact and while it is reported that many of the workers are disappointed with the settlement they have little support in the country as a whole. On the other hand the Government had the support of the majority of the business organisations and many of the citizens and they did not have to raise the issue of the restructuring, reengineering or privatisation of Petrotrin. It was raised for them and all they had to do was take the ball and run.

But the victory achieved by this charade is, and can only be, a short-term one. The problems faced by Petrotrin are deep-rooted and endemic. The turmoil and stress of returning this company to financial viability simply cannot be avoided or fudged and, as the Government begins to take the hard decisions necessary to deal seriously with the Petrotrin problem, the “understanding” with the OWTU which allowed it to fool some of the people this time around will begin to swiftly unravel.

Source: http://www.trinidadexpress.com/20170115 ... -never-was

[rawCpoppa]

How come they didn't call it a charade in 2012 as well?

[pete]

BC in case you don't actually know. There are several companies extracting natural gas from all over Trinidad(straight from the wells). They sell that natural gas to NGC or ALNG. Natural gas is primarily methane. Locally the n.g. is over 93% methane with the rest being propane, butane, pentane and hexane+. Natural gas is gaseous even at very high pressures while crude oil and the liquid derivatives like gasoline and diesel are liquid at atmospheric pressure.

While the diesel used in Tobago at the old power plant would come from the refinery, the new power plant at cove estate runs on natural gas.

[Redman]

bluesclues wrote:
Privatising petrotrin will mean higher electricity costs.

so what does petrotrin have to do with the cost of electricity??

Where they get diesel and gas for the generators from?

You tell us breddo-you made the statement

I think blues feel is gasoline and not ng they using

He might have figured it out....but he still feels that a single producer is responsible for all the local production.
He might now use this opportunity to learn how the subsidy works.

He will hide behind some stupid answer.

[bluesclues]

bluesclues wrote:
Privatising petrotrin will mean higher electricity costs.

so what does petrotrin have to do with the cost of electricity??

Where they get diesel and gas for the generators from?

You tell us breddo-you made the statement

I think blues feel is gasoline and not ng they using

He might have figured it out....but he still feels that a single producer is responsible for all the local production.
He might now use this opportunity to learn how the subsidy works.

He will hide behind some stupid answer.

Frankly i waiting for u to backup the talk with a proper definitive statement. Seems u sidestepping.

In your opinion, will the privatisation of petrotrin lead to increased cost to locals for petroleum based products and services?

Feel free to sidestep it again.

[Redman]

But it is YOU that made this statement

bluesclues wrote:
Privatising petrotrin will mean higher electricity costs.

There is nothing wrong with being wrong....there is plenty wrong with holding out to be something....implying otherwise by your posts and then confirming it by constantly failing to support your assertions with anything more than misdirection.


You tell me how Petrotrin private public status will impact electricity prices...and deal with the question please

[nervewrecker]

Hearing bye bye penal and bye bye temps

[pete]

But it is YOU that made this statement

bluesclues wrote:
Privatising petrotrin will mean higher electricity costs.

There is nothing wrong with being wrong....there is plenty wrong with holding out to be something....implying otherwise by your posts and then confirming it by constantly failing to support your assertions with anything more than misdirection.


You tell me how Petrotrin private public status will impact electricity prices...and deal with the question please

I could tell you one way that them shutting down or reducing consumption might. They are one of the largest consumers of electricity locally and pay higher industrial rates which in turn helps subsidise our domestic electricity rates. The more the consumption shifts away from industrial to commercial and residential the higher those costs may need to be.

[Dizzy28]

But it is YOU that made this statement

bluesclues wrote:
Privatising petrotrin will mean higher electricity costs.

There is nothing wrong with being wrong....there is plenty wrong with holding out to be something....implying otherwise by your posts and then confirming it by constantly failing to support your assertions with anything more than misdirection.


You tell me how Petrotrin private public status will impact electricity prices...and deal with the question please

I could tell you one way that them shutting down or reducing consumption might. They are one of the largest consumers of electricity locally and pay higher industrial rates which in turn helps subsidise our domestic electricity rates. The more the consumption shifts away from industrial to commercial and residential the higher those costs may need to be.

Aren't our industrial rates cheaper i.e. they consume more of the subsidy than domestic and commercial?

[pete]

My bad.. hmmm

[bluesclues]

But it is YOU that made this statement

bluesclues wrote:
Privatising petrotrin will mean higher electricity costs.

There is nothing wrong with being wrong....there is plenty wrong with holding out to be something....implying otherwise by your posts and then confirming it by constantly failing to support your assertions with anything more than misdirection.


You tell me how Petrotrin private public status will impact electricity prices...and deal with the question please

Either way u still seem unable to backup your contribution with a definitive position.

If ur disagreeing with me then you should be able to say that at least. But u trying to play quantum particle holding 2 states at one time.

u also arent saying what im wrong about. Just insinuating that ' i may be wrong about something'

Im not impressed by your stalling. But last i checked we use natural gas to generate steam to produce electricity. petrotrin controls the supply of said natural gas. And i imagine the government has some sort of subsidy agreement that allows us to enjoy cheap electricity.

There are quite a few reasons i can see, from my unappointed position that indicate privatisation will guarantee a rise in the cost of not just electricity, but to every agency, both public and private whose operations depend on the products supplied through petrotrin.

[Dizzy28]

But it is YOU that made this statement

bluesclues wrote:
Privatising petrotrin will mean higher electricity costs.

There is nothing wrong with being wrong....there is plenty wrong with holding out to be something....implying otherwise by your posts and then confirming it by constantly failing to support your assertions with anything more than misdirection.


You tell me how Petrotrin private public status will impact electricity prices...and deal with the question please

Either way u still seem unable to backup your contribution with a definitive position.

If ur disagreeing with me then you should be able to say that at least. But u trying to play quantum particle holding 2 states at one time.

u also arent saying what im wrong about. Just insinuating that ' i may be wrong about something'

Im not impressed by your stalling. But last i checked we use natural gas to generate steam to produce electricity. petrotrin controls the supply of said natural gas. And i imagine the government has some sort of subsidy agreement that allows us to enjoy cheap electricity.



There are quite a few reasons i can see, from my unappointed position that indicate privatisation will guarantee a rise in the cost of not just electricity, but to every agency, both public and private whose operations depend on the products supplied through petrotrin.

According to the MEEI Petrotrin produces the least amount of NG of all the producers in Trinidad and Tobago and by a long way to boot. They essentially a non entity in the gas space.

Have you ever sought professional assistance for your delusional nature??

[rebound]

But it is YOU that made this statement

bluesclues wrote:
Privatising petrotrin will mean higher electricity costs.

There is nothing wrong with being wrong....there is plenty wrong with holding out to be something....implying otherwise by your posts and then confirming it by constantly failing to support your assertions with anything more than misdirection.


You tell me how Petrotrin private public status will impact electricity prices...and deal with the question please

Either way u still seem unable to backup your contribution with a definitive position.

If ur disagreeing with me then you should be able to say that at least. But u trying to play quantum particle holding 2 states at one time.

u also arent saying what im wrong about. Just insinuating that ' i may be wrong about something'

Im not impressed by your stalling. But last i checked we use natural gas to generate steam to produce electricity. petrotrin controls the supply of said natural gas. And i imagine the government has some sort of subsidy agreement that allows us to enjoy cheap electricity.

There are quite a few reasons i can see, from my unappointed position that indicate privatisation will guarantee a rise in the cost of not just electricity, but to every agency, both public and private whose operations depend on the products supplied through petrotrin.

WHAT?????

[car]

[eliteauto]

BC STFU

[rawCpoppa]

Ng is natural gasoline. Oh y'all didn't know ?

[Redman]

But it is YOU that made this statement

bluesclues wrote:
Privatising petrotrin will mean higher electricity costs.

There is nothing wrong with being wrong....there is plenty wrong with holding out to be something....implying otherwise by your posts and then confirming it by constantly failing to support your assertions with anything more than misdirection.


You tell me how Petrotrin private public status will impact electricity prices...and deal with the question please

Either way u still seem unable to backup your contribution with a definitive position.

If ur disagreeing with me then you should be able to say that at least. But u trying to play quantum particle holding 2 states at one time.

u also arent saying what im wrong about. Just insinuating that ' i may be wrong about something'

Im not impressed by your stalling. But last i checked we use natural gas to generate steam to produce electricity. petrotrin controls the supply of said natural gas. And i imagine the government has some sort of subsidy agreement that allows us to enjoy cheap electricity.

.

As far as Im aware the subsidies are paid by govt to the marketing entities of the commodity.

Therefore the Marketing co(in your POV Privatised Petrotrin) will CONTINUE to sell fuels at market but receive the subvention from the GORTT-in the quantity of the subsidy(the reference price -subsidized price)

So the public/private status is irrelevant to the subsidization of fuels.
It remains a GORTT policy decision.
Liquid fuels through the MOEEI and through the RIC and TTEC(who bills you??)

In terms of Nat Gas- Petrotrin never supplied nat Gas for power generation.
The NG they did supply was sent to Pheonix Park for their use.

NGC was always the supplier to Powergen.
I dont know who sends you your electricity bill....

ok boss....???
Isnt UNIPET PRIVATE???

Dont they sell fuel at the subsidized price??

[bluesclues]

But it is YOU that made this statement

bluesclues wrote:
Privatising petrotrin will mean higher electricity costs.

There is nothing wrong with being wrong....there is plenty wrong with holding out to be something....implying otherwise by your posts and then confirming it by constantly failing to support your assertions with anything more than misdirection.


You tell me how Petrotrin private public status will impact electricity prices...and deal with the question please

Either way u still seem unable to backup your contribution with a definitive position.

If ur disagreeing with me then you should be able to say that at least. But u trying to play quantum particle holding 2 states at one time.

u also arent saying what im wrong about. Just insinuating that ' i may be wrong about something'

Im not impressed by your stalling. But last i checked we use natural gas to generate steam to produce electricity. petrotrin controls the supply of said natural gas. And i imagine the government has some sort of subsidy agreement that allows us to enjoy cheap electricity.



There are quite a few reasons i can see, from my unappointed position that indicate privatisation will guarantee a rise in the cost of not just electricity, but to every agency, both public and private whose operations depend on the products supplied through petrotrin.

Capture.JPG

According to the MEEI Petrotrin produces the least amount of NG of all the producers in Trinidad and Tobago and by a long way to boot. They essentially a non entity in the gas space.

Have you ever sought professional assistance for your delusional nature??

So i have to be delusional to assume petrotrin also controlled natural gas as part of the petroleum industry? Im not an oil or oil industry expert. Im just checking levers and balances. Point tho is if that were the case then a rise in electricity cost would be likely. So all u had to say from the beginning is that petrotrin isnt our main supplier of natural gas.

Something go rise tho. U could count on it.

[Dizzy28]

But it is YOU that made this statement

bluesclues wrote:
Privatising petrotrin will mean higher electricity costs.

There is nothing wrong with being wrong....there is plenty wrong with holding out to be something....implying otherwise by your posts and then confirming it by constantly failing to support your assertions with anything more than misdirection.


You tell me how Petrotrin private public status will impact electricity prices...and deal with the question please

Either way u still seem unable to backup your contribution with a definitive position.

If ur disagreeing with me then you should be able to say that at least. But u trying to play quantum particle holding 2 states at one time.

u also arent saying what im wrong about. Just insinuating that ' i may be wrong about something'

Im not impressed by your stalling. But last i checked we use natural gas to generate steam to produce electricity. petrotrin controls the supply of said natural gas. And i imagine the government has some sort of subsidy agreement that allows us to enjoy cheap electricity.



There are quite a few reasons i can see, from my unappointed position that indicate privatisation will guarantee a rise in the cost of not just electricity, but to every agency, both public and private whose operations depend on the products supplied through petrotrin.

Capture.JPG

According to the MEEI Petrotrin produces the least amount of NG of all the producers in Trinidad and Tobago and by a long way to boot. They essentially a non entity in the gas space.

Have you ever sought professional assistance for your delusional nature??

So i have to be delusional to assume petrotrin also controlled natural gas as part of the petroleum industry? Im not an oil or oil industry expert. Im just checking levers and balances. Point tho is if that were the case then a rise in electricity cost would be likely. So all u had to say from the beginning is that petrotrin isnt our main supplier of natural gas.

Something go rise tho. U could count on it.

I hope it's your IQ that rises!!

Sent from my ONE A2005 using TriniTuner mobile app

[bluesclues]

But it is YOU that made this statement

bluesclues wrote:
Privatising petrotrin will mean higher electricity costs.

There is nothing wrong with being wrong....there is plenty wrong with holding out to be something....implying otherwise by your posts and then confirming it by constantly failing to support your assertions with anything more than misdirection.


You tell me how Petrotrin private public status will impact electricity prices...and deal with the question please

Either way u still seem unable to backup your contribution with a definitive position.

If ur disagreeing with me then you should be able to say that at least. But u trying to play quantum particle holding 2 states at one time.

u also arent saying what im wrong about. Just insinuating that ' i may be wrong about something'

Im not impressed by your stalling. But last i checked we use natural gas to generate steam to produce electricity. petrotrin controls the supply of said natural gas. And i imagine the government has some sort of subsidy agreement that allows us to enjoy cheap electricity.



There are quite a few reasons i can see, from my unappointed position that indicate privatisation will guarantee a rise in the cost of not just electricity, but to every agency, both public and private whose operations depend on the products supplied through petrotrin.

Capture.JPG

According to the MEEI Petrotrin produces the least amount of NG of all the producers in Trinidad and Tobago and by a long way to boot. They essentially a non entity in the gas space.

Have you ever sought professional assistance for your delusional nature??

So i have to be delusional to assume petrotrin also controlled natural gas as part of the petroleum industry? Im not an oil or oil industry expert. Im just checking levers and balances. Point tho is if that were the case then a rise in electricity cost would be likely. So all u had to say from the beginning is that petrotrin isnt our main supplier of natural gas.

Something go rise tho. U could count on it.

I hope it's your IQ that rises!!

Sent from my ONE A2005 using TriniTuner mobile app

U want to do a test and see who's is higher?