The Religion Discussion

[psykiddo]

the god that pple worship is manmade. the real one is in yourself. belief is a powerful thing. nuttn doh have to happen to me to make me believe, i just do in my own way...

cheers...

[janfar]

Bluefete, try to get your hands on the real bible (not the edited Kings James version) and also find the missing books of Eden, the lost books of moses and i think their are a few missing from Job and Ecclesiastics...

The bible has been reinterpreted over and over to suit man and his needs.

In Deuteronomy it clearly states that swine is not to be eaten cause it is cloven at the hoof but does not chew its cod. No where in the New testament does it say this has changed yet me denting everything from a pig...

[Sky]

i just curious as to how you would explain the statue of Mary crying blood, or even the worldwide phenomena of the statues of Lord Ganesh drinking milk (think it was in 2005)

The Second Commandment reads:

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. (Exodus 20:4-6)

Let that fall wherever it may.

Funny you'd say that. Because who's image were we made in? I think God looks like Abraham Lincoln, So I'mma worship this





Plus, PLUS!!! I have evidence that the bible isnt entirely the truth. Scientists bent time and space to get to the past, but they could have only viewd it. What you are about to see is something they viewed and recorded. Their equipment isn't perfect, so the footage looks a little.....animated...





Btw, why does the bible contradict itself so much when even though it was written by different people, it's claimed that they were words inspired by God. It's like a bunch of reporters under the same editor, yet they give 5 different versions of the news

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

[X2]

now thats worthy sig material

Considering the subject of the sentence, it's a bit ironic that I mis-spelled exercise.

[axe]

it's funny how any post on God/Religion/Faith etc always ends up as an attack on Christianity.....

The thing is I always say: prove God

In Malachi 3:10 God is quoted as saying "....test me..."
I have tested Him and found Him to be real
I am a skeptic by nature and I am always full of questions...I try to find the truth
in the scriptures though personal experience....you should too

Test Him and find Him to be true

The fact that all these discussions end up attacking Christianity strengthens my
faith

People always try to shape their beliefs to back up their lifestyle.....however true
Christians differ...we:

Back up our beliefs by our lifestyle

1 Peter 4:14 "If you are reviled for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you."

Matthew 5:11"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me."

Chin up my brothers: You are blessed

[axe]

The Bible gives the answers:

How our relationship with others should be:

John 13:34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.â€

[bluefete]

<embed src="http://www.liveleak.com/e/009_1198085630" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="450" height="370"></embed>

Who is Penn & Teller and where are they now?? Are they worth something?

[civic minded]

Penn and Teller are entertainers - but they made very valid points - everyone including fascists and hypocrites will only want to hear what will agree to them - its like their behind a filter in their minds and would willingly block out the truth until they happen upon something that is agreeable to their terms.
That is of course total BS and any clear thinking minded person would agree with the evidence brought forward thus far, that supports all the claims of evolution and the big bang theory.
Where is the scientific evidence that there is a super powerful being that created everything?
And quoting from the bible or any other literature doesn't make it the truth. You are just support an age old belief from people with an limited understanding of the universe and make up things to explain them - You are no better than the Aztec, the Mayans, and the Greeks.

I am not saying that science has an answer to everything as yet - but they are getting there!!. It is just a matter of time.

[MG Man]

well since this has been downgraded into a religious debate rather than a god existence debate, I will go so far as to say ANY religion that claims it is the 'true' religion with the 'true and only god' is fundamentally flawed and delusional

[civic minded]

^^ exactly - comes like a school yard mentality - i am right and you are wrong...

[bluefete]

Maybe if scientists spent less time trying to discredit God and more time trying to work in harmony with him, they would be more advanced.

Scientists don't spend time trying to discredit God. Scientists spend time trying to figure out how the world works.

And I suppose the so-called Theory of Evolution is not an attempt to discredit God. Oh no, not at all!! We are all descended from a stray branch of the monkey species.

Let's see how scientists can work in Harmony with God. Shall we start with Botany and Biology?

"And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth, and it was so." (Genesis 1:12)

"And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed, to you it shall be for meat." (Genesis 1:29)

How long did it take scientists to discover that some plants were asexual?

The first people were fruit eaters NOT meat eaters.

BTW, did you notice the part about the "herb"??? God made the marijuana plant (among so many others) for us to use naturally (not as a cig.,eh) but who has made it illegal? If a bird deposits a marijuana seed in my backyard and it grows into a plant, I can be held for possession even though I do not know what a marijuana plant looks like. That is real stupidness.

"And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam ... and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh thereof; And the rib which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman ... (Genesis 2:21-22)

Here we have evidence of the first surgery.

I am not a doctor but is it true that man has a space where a rib should be?

"And God blessed Noah and his sons and said unto them ... Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you, even as the green herb have I given you all things." (Genesis 9:1,3)

Here we have evidence of when men became meat eaters. Notice that this happened after the flood because the earth's environmental conditions were dramatically changed. Prior to the flood people were fruit eaters.

Here is one for all the abortion supporters or people who say that a baby in the womb is not a human being until it is born so it is okay to murder it prior.

"As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child,even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all" (Ecclesiastes 11:5)

"Then the word of the Lord came unto me saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." (Jeremiah 1:5)

" ... thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise thee, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made ... (Psalm 139:13-14)

'Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things, that stretcheth forth the heavens alone, that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself." (Isaiah 44:24)

"Listen O islands unto me, and hearken ye people from afar; The Lord hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name." (Isaiah 49:1)

"Thou hast clothed me with skin and flesh, and hast fenced me with bones and sinews." (Job 10:11)

"Did not he that made me in the womb make him? and did not one fashion us in the womb? (Job 31:15)

"And it came to pass, that when Elizabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb ... and she spake out with a loud voice and said .. For lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy." (Like 1:41-42,44)

Aren't you glad that our mothers made the decision to let us live so we could have these blazing discussions?

And since some of you mentioned National Geographic a few pages back - Did you ever see the National Geographic Documentary "In The Womb" which came out around 2007? It was only a few years ago that scientists developed the technology to show how a child truly develops in the womb. But even this great documentary left many questions unanswered (refer back to Ecclesiastes 11:5 above). But, you doubters will never believe that God laid out the plans thousands of years ago.

A classic case of science now catching up with God.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Maybe if scientists spent less time trying to discredit God and more time trying to work in harmony with him, they would be more advanced.

Scientists don't spend time trying to discredit God. Scientists spend time trying to figure out how the world works.

And I suppose the so-called Theory of Evolution is not an attempt to discredit God. Oh no, not at all!! We are all descended from a stray branch of the monkey species.

LOL bluefete you serious?

You think scientists purposefully set out to discredit God by coming up with the theory of evolution?
So when Darwin found evidence in nature that suggested evolution what should he have done? Hide it so as not to discredit God?

Scientists research into the theory of evolution has done alot for modern medicine and that same research will save your life.

[bluefete]

Penn and Teller are entertainers - but they made very valid points - everyone including fascists and hypocrites will only want to hear what will agree to them - its like their behind a filter in their minds and would willingly block out the truth until they happen upon something that is agreeable to their terms.
That is of course total BS and any clear thinking minded person would agree with the evidence brought forward thus far, that supports all the claims of evolution and the big bang theory.
Where is the scientific evidence that there is a super powerful being that created everything?
And quoting from the bible or any other literature doesn't make it the truth. You are just support an age old belief from people with an limited understanding of the universe and make up things to explain them - You are no better than the Aztec, the Mayans, and the Greeks.

I am not saying that science has an answer to everything as yet - but they are getting there!!. It is just a matter of time.

Thanks civic-minded. I started watching the video but stopped very early on when they cursed God.

Now I find you logicalists are really "brakesing". You keep telling me not to quote the Bible because it is not "proof". But you are unable to refute my arguments because God does not move like we do. I keep stressing that science validates God not the other way around and you refuse to see that.

So my previous response above where I quoted the Bible to show the magnificence of God's created man (via the existence of life in the womb) does not make it the truth, according to your logic.

[bluefete]

Maybe if scientists spent less time trying to discredit God and more time trying to work in harmony with him, they would be more advanced.

Scientists don't spend time trying to discredit God. Scientists spend time trying to figure out how the world works.

And I suppose the so-called Theory of Evolution is not an attempt to discredit God. Oh no, not at all!! We are all descended from a stray branch of the monkey species.

LOL bluefete you serious?

You think scientists purposefully set out to discredit God by coming up with the theory of evolution?
So when Darwin found evidence in nature that suggested evolution what should he have done? Hide it so as not to discredit God?

Scientists research into the theory of evolution has done alot for modern medicine and that same research will save your life.

Okay Duane. It certainly did not start out that way but it has evolved into that. I try to see whether evolution could have been one of the ways in which God allowed things to happen.

BUT I have real problems with the Monkey thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[3stagevtec]

no matter what credible evidence you show bluefete, he will always find a way to dispute it.. and his responses often lack any sort of intellengence as shown many times throughout this thread.. too much blind faith..

[civic minded]

bluefete - its time you take off those blinders you have on and see the truth.

God is nothing but a fictitious being humans makeup to explain things they cant understand. Same thing humans makeup the 'Devil' to blame another supernatural being for the mistakes they make.

Its time we grow out of this story making period of existence and recognize the mountains of evidence of evolution and other scientific theories.

I mean come on - the thought of a super being looking over us - isn't that kinda childish now?

[bluefete]

bluefete - its time you take off those blinders you have on and see the truth.

God is nothing but a fictitious being humans makeup to explain things they cant understand. Same thing humans makeup the 'Devil' to blame another supernatural being for the mistakes they make.

Its time we grow out of this story making period of existence and recognize the mountains of evidence of evolution and other scientific theories.

I mean come on - the thought of a super being looking over us - isn't that kinda childish now?

Civic-Minded: We are masters of our own destinies.

It is still amazing to me how we have not mastered death.

[bluefete]

no matter what credible evidence you show bluefete, he will always find a way to dispute it.. and his responses often lack any sort of intellengence as shown many times throughout this thread.. too much blind faith..

Oh the wisdom of men. Wiser than the God that created them.

[bigga514]

yup definite proof im gonna go baptize sunday.












But in the mean while, adam and eve and let there be light and all that where that fits in exactly, especially considering Homo Habilis the first Homo (human) was about 2.5 million years ago vs. T.rex a relatively "young" dino species is over 65 million years old.

you proved your bible contradictions with your "proof" on pg21.
where did all that fit in with creating the world in 7 days adam and eve and the talking snake?

seriously jus admit its hard to accept you came from a monkey, shame your still thinking like one. jus look at he breakdown of human ancestory with skeletal proof.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

It is still amazing to me how we have not mastered death.

bluefete, what amazes me is the utter nonsense of your posts.
a young catholic priest in training at the regional seminary who reads this forum told me it is his opinion that you are making religious people look bad.
He said you have some terrible arguments and some of the worst use of scripture he has ever seen.

[megadoc1]

lol

[bluefete]

It is still amazing to me how we have not mastered death.

bluefete, what amazes me is the utter nonsense of your posts.
a young catholic priest in training at the regional seminary who reads this forum told me it is his opinion that you are making religious people look bad.
He said you have some terrible arguments and some of the worst use of scripture he has ever seen.

He should talk. Let him keep reading and if possible, contribute.

BTW, I hear that even some priests are now saying that Adam & Eve was a nancy story.

I am not here to defend priests or imams or any such thing. They can handle their own stories.

When next you speak to him, please ask him about catholic tradition viz-a-viz the Bible and the role it plays in circumventing the Bible. Should make for an interesting discussion.

I have some scientific things to drop and seeing that the scientists wrote it I wonder .... I will put it up soon.

[Sky]

It is still amazing to me how we have not mastered death.

bluefete, what amazes me is the utter nonsense of your posts.
a young catholic priest in training at the regional seminary who reads this forum told me it is his opinion that you are making religious people look bad.
He said you have some terrible arguments and some of the worst use of scripture he has ever seen.

[bluefete]

"In the six hundreth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeeth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights." (Genesis 7:11).

"The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven restrained." (Genesis 8:2)

What if Noah's Flood not only affected the earth but our entire solar system? The Bible says so and the following article seems to confirm it.
They seem afraid to postulate on what caused all the water to drain off from Mars. Did it have something to do with the windows of heaven being opened?

As you read the article, remember that God created the heaven and the earth.

So, I suppose this article is utter nonsense too, Duane.


Water Spread Across Much of Ancient Mars, Creating Conditions for Life
By Robert Roy Britt
Senior Science Writer - Space.com
posted: 17 February, 2004
2 p.m. ET

Water was common across a vast region of ancient Mars, creating habitable conditions for long stretches of time billions of years ago, scientists said Thursday.

New data reveal water in the Meridiani Planum region of Mars extended across hundreds of thousands of square miles, at least as groundwater and possibly as shallow lakes or seas.

The work significantly expands the amount of surface area on Mars known to have once been water-laden, and it extends the period of time that the water was present.

Rocks that clearly formed in water extend throughout 980 feet (300 meters) of layered material in several locations across the plains, said Ray Arvidson, an Earth and planetary sciences expert at Washington University in St. Louis, Missouri. The layers were built up over time, which means water was present, at least off and on, for extended periods of the early martian history.

The findings mean that the conditions for life were present.

"Everything that we're finding makes the probability [of a habitable environment] go up," Arvidson told SPACE.com.

Signature everywhere

The signature of water is a scrawl of various minerals known as evaporates, which are left behind when water turns to vapor. They are the same aqueous signatures detected last year in two craters by NASA's Opportunity Rover.


"We've been able to show that the evaporates that Opportunity sees in the two craters extend over a much larger area," Arvidson said in a telephone interview.

Liquid water is the key ingredient for life as we know it, but the fact that early Mars was loaded with water does not necessarily mean life ever got going. Mars is comparatively dry today, though it harbors significant amounts of water ice.

Some scientists believe liquid water may lurk in pockets under the surface, and it may even support life now.

The new research is based on data from the European Space Agency's orbiting Mars Express spacecraft. It is presented in five separate papers in the Feb. 18 issue of the journal Science.

Expanding Opportunity

Opportunity found minerals, including jarosite, that can only form in the presence of water.

Other evidence in layered rock called "etched terrain" revealed that the water existed in large quantities, such as shallow lakes or underground aquifers, and that it persisted for long stretches. But the rover could only examine limited sections of they layers -- typically a few inches or feet that poked above the surface.

Over the past few months, scientists have worked to calibrate what they observe from the orbiting Mars Express craft to ground-based observations. The signatures of water are now evident across the landscape, but in much thicker sections that represent longer stretches of time during which rock formed in the presence of water.

The signs of past water exist throughout the entire 980 feet of the etched terrain's thickness.

"The water may have formed in shallow seas or lakes," said Arvidson, who is also deputy principal investigator for the Mars Exploration Rover instruments. "We don't know yet."

However, there was at least temporary standing water that possibly dried out, with the same area being affected by wind-blown debris before getting wet again, he said. The layered terrain is from the end of the Noachian period and maybe into early Hesperian period, more than 3 billion years ago.

More evidence

Small areas of similar mineral deposits have been found in Valles Marineris, the huge scar on Mars bigger than the Grand Canyon. Pictures of Valles Marineris suggest it was carved by water.

"These minerals contain water, and had to be formed in the presence of water," said Brown University geologist John Mustard, author of another of the new papers.

Other research has turned up clay minerals that also require water to form.

Importantly, Mustard told SPACE.com, these clay minerals can form in more neutral pH waters, unlike the very acidic environments that are thought to have created the minerals in the etched terrains. "This could be very important in the identification of regions that supported habitable conditions," Mustard said.

"These results strongly support the view that Mars had habitable environments," Mustard said. "There are now hundreds of places beyond the Opportunity landing site that need to be investigated."

He said the mineral signatures identified by OMEGA, an instrument on Mars Express, "open up a much more complex and diverse palette of possible habitats to consider, including hydrothermal."

There's a catch, however.

"All the locations where we find these signatures are ancient, probably formed in the first billion years of Mars' history," Mustard said.

[bigga514]

yup definite proof im gonna go baptize sunday.












But in the mean while, adam and eve and let there be light and all that where that fits in exactly, especially considering Homo Habilis the first Homo (human) was about 2.5 million years ago vs. T.rex a relatively "young" dino species is over 65 million years old.

you proved your bible contradictions with your "proof" on pg21.
where did all that fit in with creating the world in 7 days adam and eve and the talking snake?

seriously jus admit its hard to accept you came from a monkey, shame your still thinking like one. jus look at he breakdown of human ancestory with skeletal proof.

keep running i shall keep quoting. So if adam and eve is nancy story and its in the bible.....? what does that tell you. funny how your logic works

and btw the water on mars is still there stop putting up half truths. The water is still there on mars. Educate your self child, i feel sorry for you.


http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2002 ... arsice.htm


May 28, 2002: Using instruments on NASA's 2001 Mars Odyssey spacecraft, surprised scientists have found enormous quantities of buried treasure lying just under the surface of Mars -- enough water ice to fill Lake Michigan twice over. And that may be only the tip of the iceberg.

"This is really amazing," says William Boynton of the University of Arizona. "This is the best direct evidence we have of subsurface water ice on Mars." Indeed, he added, "what we have found is much more ice than we ever expected."

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

bluefete please re-read what I wrote, neither the priest nor myself ever said the bible was nonsense. What YOU post is nonsense.

So you're saying people who study the Bible at the seminary are actually secretly against it?

BTW - John F. Mustard, the guy you quoted from on the study of the Martian surface - his life work is in Planetary Geology and he supports the theory of star and planet creation through the scientific process "viz-aviz" the big bang theory.

So you can't selectively quote only the things that make sense to you - that is pointless.

[Humes]

Now I find you logicalists are really "brakesing". You keep telling me not to quote the Bible because it is not "proof". But you are unable to refute my arguments because God does not move like we do. I keep stressing that science validates God not the other way around and you refuse to see that.

bluefete, you are the only man who's been brakesing in this thread. Repeatedly, obviously, and dishonestly so.

Everytime your evidence is soundly refuted, or the flaws of your arguments are exposed, you refuse to acknowledge your mistakes and quickly veer to another angle. The closest thing you've done to admitting how wrong you are is saying stuff like, "I like your rationalizations"...as if the rationalizations are totally subjective and can co-exist alongside your flawed assertions.

The Bible is not proof because it contains unverifiable subjective information. You've promised to present evidence, but reliable evidence has to be verifiable and objective. That's a fundamental aspect of this discussion that you still haven't understood.

Repetition without evidence doesn't make an assertion the truth. And that's all you've been doing in this thread: Making claims, providing evidence that's been soundly refuted every time, refusing to acknowledge your errors, and repeating your claims.

And you will persist, because you look like the type of person who will claim "victory" after your opponents grow weary of your underhanded, incorrect debating techniques.

[Humes]

Maybe if scientists spent less time trying to discredit God and more time trying to work in harmony with him, they would be more advanced.

Scientists don't spend time trying to discredit God. Scientists spend time trying to figure out how the world works.

And I suppose the so-called Theory of Evolution is not an attempt to discredit God. Oh no, not at all!! We are all descended from a stray branch of the monkey species.

You're just being dishonest and counterproductive now. Enough links and information have been presented in this thread for you to have educated yourself about the facts of evolution. Either you're being facetious, or you lack the capacity to understand that man's evolution has nothing to do with a "stray branch of the monkey species".

Either way...go educate yourself. You're arguing against something you don't understand, and talking rubbish in the process.

As for discrediting God...more rubbish. What exactly do you want scientists to do...ignore and cover up discoveries that don't mesh with Biblical claims? Keep back progress because you're offended? Steups.


Scientists don't discredit God. Reality does.

[Humes]

When next you speak to him, please ask him about catholic tradition viz-a-viz the Bible and the role it plays in circumventing the Bible. Should make for an interesting discussion.

A more interesting discussion is the fact that this Bible you're discussing was selected and compiled by Catholic authorities.