The Religion Discussion

[sMASH]

do you understand the difference between works of righteousness and works of faith?...... let me help yuh ....works of righteousness is when you do good thing on your own ,that can't get you to heaven, God sees that as being prideful and it means Jesus died for us in vain but works of faith is when you accept Jesus christ and what he did for us , the works you do are based on your faith in Him
and is not a requirement for salvation.............

i have tried to restrain my self before,,,, but now , if i dont laugh i go cuss.
that is a heap load of bs... u better pray illumi@tti dont see this pile of illogical nonsense bull crap u typing.

that is pure foolishness....

use a blasted dictionary and post the meanings of righteousness and faith

if it had a lil more intellect thrown into it i would have called it propaganda,,,

but that is foolishness... allyuh making up allyuh own meanings and ideology.

mega u are being mislead. seriously, who ever teaching u, feeding u a lot of nonsense in disguise and u believing it...

open ur eyes and try to understand a logic.


just to give u some proof, if blue could put a poll on top and modify the headliner to attract attention.

-who believe what mega says makes sense
-who belive what mega say makes no sense
-who intends to convert to christianity after seeing this thread
-who has different views about christianity because of this tread

if u say god works in mysterious ways, then is either u all doing things the wrong way, or doing the wrong thing.
christians may say the former, i say is both.

[Firewall]

oh and before i forget, the Council of Nicea, where only a mere 325 years after the death of jesus, did the church decide upon him really being the son of god.

if you researching it please don't go to christian.org, or bible.com.

do some actual research

and in the words of Pope Leo X (16th century)...it has served us well, this myth of christ.

muh boy I believe in Jesus Christ and his word in the holy bible
it enough of what i needed to know

then you sir are a fanatic

*edit*
what about the other part? the library bit? any response to that?

*edit again*
you are basically saying that you believe in jesus, and his word

(which is not really his word - because i'm not sure if there is a gospel of jesus in the bible, i mean there is mark who was pardners with simon, then luke who was a buddy of paul which are at best second hand accounts) in the holy bible (which was compiled by different men years after his death) and that's is all you are interested in knowing.

and isn't the pope supposed to be the epitome of christianity? how come your own ace saying that christ is a myth?

*last edit, i promise*

so basically you would believe in douen and socouyant if somebody uncle fishing pardner write it down.

i'm just curious as to why you believe. did you get up and say hmmmm faith is for me?
or do you fear death so much that you decided to reconcile with a set of rules to get you into heaven?

[megadoc1]

oh and before i forget, the Council of Nicea, where only a mere 325 years after the death of jesus, did the church decide upon him really being the son of god.

if you researching it please don't go to christian.org, or bible.com.

do some actual research

and in the words of Pope Leo X (16th century)...it has served us well, this myth of christ.

muh boy I believe in Jesus Christ and his word in the holy bible
it enough of what i needed to know

then you sir are a fanatic

ok

[megadoc1]

do you understand the difference between works of righteousness and works of faith?...... let me help yuh ....works of righteousness is when you do good thing on your own ,that can't get you to heaven, God sees that as being prideful and it means Jesus died for us in vain but works of faith is when you accept Jesus christ and what he did for us , the works you do are based on your faith in Him
and is not a requirement for salvation.............

i have tried to restrain my self before,,,, but now , if i dont laugh i go cuss.
that is a heap load of bs... u better pray illumi@tti dont see this pile of illogical nonsense bull crap u typing.for what he go nail meh to a cross orrr?

that is pure foolishness....

use a blasted dictionary and post the meanings of righteousness and faith

if it had a lil more intellect thrown into it i would have called it propaganda,,,

but that is foolishness... allyuh making up allyuh own meanings and ideology.

mega u are being mislead. seriously, who ever teaching u, feeding u a lot of nonsense in disguise and u believing it... really?

open ur eyes and try to understand a logic. lol


just to give u some proof, if blue could put a poll on top and modify the headliner to attract attention.

-who believe what mega says makes sense
-who belive what mega say makes no sense
-who intends to convert to christianity after seeing this thread
-who has different views about christianity because of this tread
you think thats the kind of results one should be lookin for?

if u say god works in mysterious ways, then is either u all doing things the wrong way, or doing the wrong thing.
christians may say the former, i say is both.

doh beat up

[megadoc1]

oh and before i forget, the Council of Nicea, where only a mere 325 years after the death of jesus, did the church decide upon him really being the son of god.

if you researching it please don't go to christian.org, or bible.com.

do some actual research

and in the words of Pope Leo X (16th century)...it has served us well, this myth of christ.

muh boy I believe in Jesus Christ and his word in the holy bible
it enough of what i needed to know

then you sir are a fanatic

*edit*
what about the other part? the library bit? any response to that?
muh boy I believe in Jesus Christ and his word in the holy bible
*edit again*
you are basically saying that you believe in jesus, and his word
duh

(which is not really his word - because i'm not sure if there is a gospel of jesus in the bible, i mean there is mark who was pardners with simon, then luke who was a buddy of paul which are at best second hand accounts) in the holy bible (which was compiled by different men years after his death) and that's is all you are interested in knowing.
muh boy I believe in Jesus Christ and his word in the holy bible
and isn't the pope supposed to be the epitome of christianity? how come your own ace saying that christ is a myth?
muh boy I believe in Jesus Christ and his word in the holy bible
*last edit, i promise*

so basically you would believe in douen and socouyant if somebody uncle fishing pardner write it down.
muh boy I believe in Jesus Christ and his word in the holy bible
i'm just curious as to why you believe. did you get up and say hmmmm faith is for me?
or do you fear death so much that you decided to reconcile with a set of rules to get you into heaven?[color=#00BF40]ding ding ding

[DFC]

so i wanna summon the devil and sell my soul.

(but i'm an athiest so its BS anyway..but i will try)

so i will sell my soul for magical powers an unlimited amounts of money.

with my powers i willl end the wars...and with money i will eradicate poverty.

also i will spread my seed to every fuener. like it or not.

before i die...i will repent and accept jesus as lord and saviour.

and...time for my soul to be collected (supposing i have a soul)
i made a pact with the devil for my soul.

but with the devils wealth i will doo sooo much good to humanity,
and before i die i will accept jesus.
So i will be saved!!

commonsense eh.

trick the devil.

am i the only one wanna try this?

[sMASH]

yes, that is ur proof. or are u afraid, fearful, weak, and emotional to have ur efforts put on display for all to see.

did u accomplish good by posting here?

put ur cards on the table if it so great and damning.

blue, put the poll.


god is one- father, spook and son. no matter what ever explanation u come up with that will never add up

u cling to this thing because u associate some extraordinary event to an emotional time. it made an impression on u like a child gaining a parent again.
god made us with emotion and instinct, like the animals. and that is what ruling u now, your nafs.
he also made us with intellect, to distinguish between right and wrong, sensibleness and foolishness.
after the euphoria of those amazing events subside u need to examine the nature and purpose of those happenings. are they really good, or are they of some different inspiration?
the shaitans can also play tricks on us and make us see wondrous things, like taking us to a high mountain, or showing us the world or taking over someones body and then calming it.
what did god give us so we could not be fooled by magic, parlour tricks, and performance? he gave us a brain to think, analyse and understand.
he commanded us to gain knowledge from the cradle to the grave, so that we may be better able to differentiate when someone is fooling us.
the devil will not approach us with his horns, tail, and pitch fork. no, he would show him self in white robes and flowing hair, feigning love to pull us away from worshiping god and god alone.

u sir mega need to be saved, u are being fooled.

[MG Man]

so i wanna summon the devil and sell my soul.

(but i'm an athiest so its BS anyway..but i will try)

so i will sell my soul for magical powers an unlimited amounts of money.

with my powers i willl end the wars...and with money i will eradicate poverty.

also i will spread my seed to every fuener. like it or not.

before i die...i will repent and accept jesus as lord and saviour.

and...time for my soul to be collected (supposing i have a soul)
i made a pact with the devil for my soul.

but with the devils wealth i will doo sooo much good to humanity,
and before i die i will accept jesus.
So i will be saved!!

commonsense eh.

trick the devil.

am i the only one wanna try this?

your powers shieldin u from herpes too orr?

[d spike]

Another example of megadoc's "squat n' squeeze" approach to answering a question that he doesn't know the answer to.oh really?
Yes, really.
This has nothing to do with evil. When all this is at an end, and we come home to our Creator, we will finally and actually get to KNOW Him. Faith only exists here, for we do NOT KNOW Him - we only believe He is, thus we claim to have 'faith'. 'Hope' as well will cease to exist, for we will no longer yearn for something to come, it will actually BE. Only Love will exist. what you forget to tell him is that rejecting God while he is alive on this earth is considered evil and if he leave this earth without accepting or serving him here he would be no part of the we in"we would all be good and there would be no need to believe in god or put faith in god since the evil no longer exists"

(Megadoc, sometimes you come across as infantile in the extreme... I didn't "forget" to tell him about rejecting God, for I wasn't TALKING ABOUT rejecting God.)
so why not tell him everything ? ...wham ! alittle truth so hard for you?

Why do you keep telling me what to say? Is that your idea of what religious intelligentsia is for? A pitbull you sic on others? A parrot who performs on whim? This attitude of yours stinks of ego on your part.

My role can be likened to a signpost... I merely point the way - and if you looked hard enough on your own accord, you would see it too (I sit on the river-bank, selling water to passers-by - old zen saying). You on the other hand, are a parrot, squawking and shrieking a plethora of words you don't fully understand (probably because you were petted and praised for this act wherever it is you learned to perform it.

You have nothing to offer... like a metronome, all you can do is make a regular noise alongside a proper instrument and fool yourself into thinking you are part of the music.

Now..."without accepting or serving him here" (I know the knee-jerk response will be, "d spike twisting my words" - but plain and simple English is a foreign language to some here ) its a sad day when you complain about people's comprehension or comunication skills ,yet still use big word in a sophisticated manner, then tell them to go look it up or figure it out and then explain what it means just to make your self look goood. all that to tell a lie ? .....if a man comes across as lesser educated that you then it is more sensible that you speak in a language that he may understand. after all, you are the smarter one

It's most remarkable that a self-professed idiot such as yourself seems to know a lot about how more learned folk should behave. Instead of wasting time spouting claptrap, why don't you just use that same time to become learned yourself?

lies.. so a man have to work for salvation?
Philippians 2:12b-13 "...work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

Now, as Smash would say, go and stick in some green words...
Here's a collection of your choice answers, so you don't sprain your processes trying to remember them:
cool ok doh beat up lies oh really

[bluefete]

...and Bluefete, man is a social animal... whether you like it or not. Worshiping as a community is very helpful to us as social beings. Admitting to refusing to do so, does not exactly help people to acquire confidence in believing that you consider your beliefs worthy enough to act on them....

...or that you REALLY know what you're talking about. So, apart from getting practice in cut n' pasting hobgobbery from sites about ultra-biased uber-christian 'science', what else did you intend this for this one-hundred-and-almost-fifty page thread of quibble?

This was supposed to be a relatively simple, SHORT thread about people's encounter with God.

However, God took it totally in a different direction which none of us contributors and the almost 50,000 viewers ever expected.

With respect to worshipping as a community, I am still looking for a community with which to worship.

~Shakes head~: I still cannot get over the fact that so many people have a problem when I use relevant sources to support my arguments but when they use theirs, I must have no problem.

Ammm.........bluefete, the 'view' column doesnt show how many viewers eh, it shos how many times the post has been opened to view. The same ppl are just reading everyday, hence the large number of views. Jeez man.........

Ah no dat, eh. Ah was jus' tryin' a t'ing. But is still plenty people.

[bluefete]

Too many offshoots of Christianity have been founded by people who took a part of a sentence and ran with it. The entire "rapture" debate is a good example.

Quite right! Well said, lad.

Bluefete actually said something true... and it wasn't snipped and glued from some website... and I agreed with it...

Yuh mean after 146 pages we finally getting somewhere?

bluefete he agrees with you because you finally admitted that you too are part of Christians who take parts and run with it. Evidenced by the fact that your offshoot doesnt go to church

Duane: I did state that I am still looking!!

[bluefete]

"It is a tragedy that the only picture of jesus that some people have is of how others have misrepresented Him." (megadoc1 and bluefete included)

~Sighs~ (for the umpteenth time ):

How have I "misrepresented Jesus?" Jesus is about love and forgiveness.

Have I not forgiven all my detractors on this thread by refusing to stoop to their depths ?

[bluefete]

this God person...quite an interesting fellow i must say

very interesting ...he is interested in you too
seek Him out

he in interested in me, but i have to see him out.. oh the irony..

When you are interested in a woman, don't you seek her out?

[bluefete]

bluefete and megaduck.

Do you think if i summon the devil..he will come?

if i offer my soul to satan...will he show up and come?

cuz....umm..

well how do u summon the devil?

The devil will like nothing better because you will be one less soul bound for the kingdom of heaven, unless you ask God's forgiveness and help to get out of the clutches of the devil.

It is not for me to state the multiple ways to summon with the devil.

And yes, He will most definitely show up. Just as he does even when not invited.

[bluefete]

Spike:

Permission to use "codswallop" as sig?

Great word.

[bluefete]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIIknwAT ... r_embedded

ABA:

So should we go the jihadic way to settle this thread?

[bluefete]

megadoc and blu, ever heard about the nag hammadi library and the gnostic gospels? or Irenaeus?

anyway, the nag hammadi codicies are online so you could take a read

and ever wonder why none of the four gospels which make up the new testament were written by contemporaries of jesus (NOT TRUE)), basically written almost 50 years after his death?

Yes and I have read them.

The Gospel of John and the Revelation was written by John who was one of Jesus' disciples. He may have written them 50 or more years later (Revelation was written while he was in exile on the island of Patmos) but he was an eyewitness to history.

Matthew likewise was one of Jesus' disciples and also an eyewitness to history.

[megadoc1]

yes, that is ur proof. or are u afraid, fearful, weak, and emotional to have ur efforts put on display for all to see.

did u accomplish good by posting here?

put ur cards on the table if it so great and damning.

blue, put the poll.


god is one- father, spook and son. no matter what ever explanation u come up with that will never add up

u cling to this thing because u associate some extraordinary event to an emotional time. it made an impression on u like a child gaining a parent again.
god made us with emotion and instinct, like the animals. and that is what ruling u now, your nafs.
he also made us with intellect, to distinguish between right and wrong, sensibleness and foolishness.
after the euphoria of those amazing events subside u need to examine the nature and purpose of those happenings. are they really good, or are they of some different inspiration?
the shaitans can also play tricks on us and make us see wondrous things, like taking us to a high mountain, or showing us the world or taking over someones body and then calming it.
what did god give us so we could not be fooled by magic, parlour tricks, and performance? he gave us a brain to think, analyse and understand.
he commanded us to gain knowledge from the cradle to the grave, so that we may be better able to differentiate when someone is fooling us.
the devil will not approach us with his horns, tail, and pitch fork. no, he would show him self in white robes and flowing hair, feigning love to pull us away from worshiping god and god alone.

u sir mega need to be saved, u are being fooled.

who can save me Islam ? man rock so with that eh
you want me to leave my Jesus who heal the sick ,make the blind see,raise the dead , lay down his life for me ,forgave me of my sins and give me eternal live
and power over the kingdom of darkness
to follow
the teachings of a man who steal,kill,rape lie,worship false gods to make friends with his enemies,never do a miracle ,lie ,lied, lying,fooling and just totally opposing Jesus?

[toyo682]

works of righteousness is when you do good thing on your own ,that can't get you to heaven, God sees that as being prideful and it means Jesus died for us in vain but works of faith is when you accept Jesus christ and what he did for us , the works you do are based on your faith in Him
and is not a requirement for salvation.............

there you go again saying that only believing Jesus is God will get you to heaven and NOT selflessly devoting your life to helping the poor and needy.

Is there any one else in this thread that sees no logic in that?

Once again can someone tell me how much good works wipes out a sin? If I am to place my faith in this logic how do I know that when I die I have done enough to even make it into even the lowest part of Heaven? How do you know you have done enough Duane if you were to die? Like I said there are many you believe that Hitler did plenty of good for Germany, did his good out weigh his bad? Do you really feed the poor because you love them or because you want to go to heaven?

[Chimera]

this God person...quite an interesting fellow i must say

very interesting ...he is interested in you too
seek Him out

he in interested in me, but i have to see him out.. oh the irony..

When you are interested in a woman, don't you seek her out?

you understand what you just wrote?



If so, then you are proving 3stagevtec's point, God suppose to seek US out

[d spike]

Martin Luther had the same problem with the virtue of charity, as compared to faith. He desperately wanted to get St. James' letter out of the bible (as it shows that faith IS NOT THE ONLY REQUIREMENT FOR SALVATION) oh poor try..... yuh mean with all your understanding you did not understand that James was speaking about the works of faith? do you understand the difference between works of righteousness and works of faith?...... let me help yuh ....works of righteousness is when you do good thing on your own ,that can't get you to heaven, God sees that as being prideful and it means Jesus died for us in vain but works of faith is when you accept Jesus christ and what he did for us , the works you do are based on your faith in Him
and is not a requirement for salvation............. that and searched unsuccessfully for a canon that didn't include it as scripture, to thus allow him to claim that canon as the 'right' one - a stunt he pulled to get rid of other books that highlighted material he didn't approve of.

Wait... you can't understand what I write... you barely understand what you yourself write... you can't even answer properly the questions Smash and Duane et al are asking you... and you want to correct me on my knowledge of the letter written by St. James?

[megadoc1]

Another example of megadoc's "squat n' squeeze" approach to answering a question that he doesn't know the answer to.oh really?
Yes, really.
This has nothing to do with evil. When all this is at an end, and we come home to our Creator, we will finally and actually get to KNOW Him. Faith only exists here, for we do NOT KNOW Him - we only believe He is, thus we claim to have 'faith'. 'Hope' as well will cease to exist, for we will no longer yearn for something to come, it will actually BE. Only Love will exist. what you forget to tell him is that rejecting God while he is alive on this earth is considered evil and if he leave this earth without accepting or serving him here he would be no part of the we in"we would all be good and there would be no need to believe in god or put faith in god since the evil no longer exists"

(Megadoc, sometimes you come across as infantile in the extreme... I didn't "forget" to tell him about rejecting God, for I wasn't TALKING ABOUT rejecting God.)
so why not tell him everything ? ...wham ! alittle truth so hard for you?

Why do you keep telling me what to say? Is that your idea of what religious intelligentsia is for? A pitbull you sic on others? A parrot who performs on whim? This attitude of yours stinks of ego on your part.

My role can be likened to a signpost... I merely point the way - and if you looked hard enough on your own accord, you would see it too (I sit on the river-bank, selling water to passers-by - old zen saying). You on the other hand, are a parrot, squawking and shrieking a plethora of words you don't fully understand (probably because you were petted and praised for this act wherever it is you learned to perform it.

You have nothing to offer... like a metronome, all you can do is make a regular noise alongside a proper instrument and fool yourself into thinking you are part of the music.

Now..."without accepting or serving him here" (I know the knee-jerk response will be, "d spike twisting my words" - but plain and simple English is a foreign language to some here ) its a sad day when you complain about people's comprehension or comunication skills ,yet still use big word in a sophisticated manner, then tell them to go look it up or figure it out and then explain what it means just to make your self look goood. all that to tell a lie ? .....if a man comes across as lesser educated that you then it is more sensible that you speak in a language that he may understand. after all, you are the smarter one

It's most remarkable that a self-professed idiot such as yourself seems to know a lot about how more learned folk should behave. Instead of wasting time spouting claptrap, why don't you just use that same time to become learned yourself?

lies.. so a man have to work for salvation?
Philippians 2:12b-13 "...work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

Now, as Smash would say, go and stick in some green words...
Here's a collection of your choice answers, so you don't sprain your processes trying to remember them:
cool ok doh beat up lies oh really

why not go in the bible and tell me where salvation is by faith and works?
why not try to be truthful?

[megadoc1]

Martin Luther had the same problem with the virtue of charity, as compared to faith. He desperately wanted to get St. James' letter out of the bible (as it shows that faith IS NOT THE ONLY REQUIREMENT FOR SALVATION) oh poor try..... yuh mean with all your understanding you did not understand that James was speaking about the works of faith? do you understand the difference between works of righteousness and works of faith?...... let me help yuh ....works of righteousness is when you do good thing on your own ,that can't get you to heaven, God sees that as being prideful and it means Jesus died for us in vain but works of faith is when you accept Jesus christ and what he did for us , the works you do are based on your faith in Him
and is not a requirement for salvation............. that and searched unsuccessfully for a canon that didn't include it as scripture, to thus allow him to claim that canon as the 'right' one - a stunt he pulled to get rid of other books that highlighted material he didn't approve of.

Wait... you can't understand what I write... you barely understand what you yourself write... you can't even answer properly the questions Smash and Duane et al are asking you... and you want to correct me on my knowledge of the letter written by St. James?

yes because it is very clear that you misunderstood it
go look at it again James even went further explaining it
using Abraham as an example

if you cant understand that with all you profess wisdom ....I loled

[Firewall]

funny that you should mention Islam, don't they believe that their god is the god of abraham? who is basically jesus supposed daddy?

[d spike]

The problem fundamentalist christians have with the debate of salvation (faith vs. works/charity) is that to believe in the possibility of good works acquiring merit, would then negate their stance on salvation ‘through faith alone’. For them to therefore assume that charity is worth anything is dangerous. Thus, they claim that only the ‘saved’ benefit from doing charity – an obviously self-nullifying statement, for if one is saved, then why the need for good works? (How they wish Luther was able to rid them of St. James’ letter!) So they come up with these convoluted explanations (in order to rid themselves of his arguments) of what they say he meant to say... yet these fly in the face of what St. James was saying quite clearly!

[MG Man]

Even if you feel overwhelmed or about to make a questionable or bad decision you can always ask God for guidance and he will guide you perfectly. God will not set you up in the way that you are alluding to.

finally someone sensible I can debate god with

ok Gear, but what about kleptos and people with compulsive disorders etc
pathalogical killers, etc..............there are those who know they need help, believe in god, genuinely ask fr guidance, and still knowingly do wrong due to different psychological and physiological disorders etc...............

again seems to me god, in his plan to make us all different, has condemned some of us to hell...

Even with all that, God has not condemned some of us to hell. If you looked at some of Megadocs videos above you would see that what science rationalizes as physiological and psychological disorders, the spiritual world recognises, in several cases, as demon possession.

Some of these things can only be cured via prayer and fasting.

Have you ever known doctors to cure "multiple personality disorder"? They cannot because they are not God. They can only narcoticize you.

When you knowingly do wrong, it is because you are in full possedssion of your faculties.

There are cases, however, when people under possession, do things of which they are not aware.

so what is their fate, come judgement day? will god wait till then to pull the demons out of them then, so they can repent?

[sMASH]

works of righteousness is when you do good thing on your own ,that can't get you to heaven, God sees that as being prideful and it means Jesus died for us in vain but works of faith is when you accept Jesus christ and what he did for us , the works you do are based on your faith in Him
and is not a requirement for salvation.............

there you go again saying that only believing Jesus is God will get you to heaven and NOT selflessly devoting your life to helping the poor and needy.

Is there any one else in this thread that sees no logic in that?

Once again can someone tell me how much good works wipes out a sin? If I am to place my faith in this logic how do I know that when I die I have done enough to even make it into even the lowest part of Heaven? How do you know you have done enough Duane if you were to die? Like I said there are many you believe that Hitler did plenty of good for Germany, did his good out weigh his bad? Do you really feed the poor because you love them or because you want to go to heaven?

Master of the day of judgment. check him, it is ultimately up to him who goes and who doesn't. man, jinn, angels, would be presumptuous to know exactly how their performance compares to our potential god made us with. if u are so sure u have accomplished heaven kill ur self and relieve ur self from the worldly bondage here.
ur purpose on earth, what is it? our purpose on earth is to worship god, and doing good to others is part of it, as well as singing his praises in congregation. the adherence to the ways he set, even when no one is around to see, is also part of his worship. our actions will be judged against our intentions. that is the reason for judgment day.
following his instruction is part of his worship, and he said to gain knowledge from the cradle to the grave. so limiting ur knowledge about his other creations is going against his instruction and so contrary to his worship. we will be judged accordingly.

the answer to ur last question i put two stories to show it, but u not see it.
we should do things for the sake of being responsible and caring i.e. selfless. that is what god intends for us here on earth. and u dont need to believe in god for that to happen, u would still be following the laws prescribed, others would be benefiting, u would be racking up blessings.
the reward for doing so is heaven.
even if u do it for the purpose of going to heaven, it is a worldly selfless desire, and people would still be benefiting from it, generating good and subsequent blessing.

but take for instance alcohol consumption. it is a sin according to islam. some may get sin for it. but some people are too weak for it and cannot help them selves. they may not get as much sin for it as compared to me. i fully well know the negative effects, and know how grave a ban it is. i can control my self. and if i do it, i do so with no excuses. so i may get more sin and punishment for a mere glass of puncheon than a person who does a nip a day. they cannot control it, i can.

the more blessings god gives us in this world , the greater the potential and responsibility we have to follow his instruction and do good.

the imam was granted entry into heaven, not because of the services he led, the word he spread, how well liked by the people he was. no, he was granted heaven because of the act of removing an obstacle from the path leading to a mosque, making it easier for the people to go to worship god, when no body was there to see, an his sole intention was to make it easier for others with no desire for his self.
the prostitute was granted entry to heaven because she gave a thirsty dog in the desert water because of compassion and empathy, with no reward to be received.
god wants us to develop ur caring selfless nature and higher intellect, rather than be focused on and subjected to our carnal emotional nature.

so, what do u think the purpose of judgment day is ?

[d spike]

Spike:

Permission to use "codswallop" as sig?

Great word.

It's not my word to give permission to use, lad.
It's a perfectly good English word that was in use for quite some time when men knew how to use language, and had to find a word to describe the sort of the hobgobbery that is plentiful in certain people's thinking which is then foisted on the public.

Knock yerself out, laddie... whatever pops yer cork.

[toyo682]

works of righteousness is when you do good thing on your own ,that can't get you to heaven, God sees that as being prideful and it means Jesus died for us in vain but works of faith is when you accept Jesus christ and what he did for us , the works you do are based on your faith in Him
and is not a requirement for salvation.............

there you go again saying that only believing Jesus is God will get you to heaven and NOT selflessly devoting your life to helping the poor and needy.

Is there any one else in this thread that sees no logic in that?

Once again can someone tell me how much good works wipes out a sin? If I am to place my faith in this logic how do I know that when I die I have done enough to even make it into even the lowest part of Heaven? How do you know you have done enough Duane if you were to die? Like I said there are many you believe that Hitler did plenty of good for Germany, did his good out weigh his bad? Do you really feed the poor because you love them or because you want to go to heaven?

Master of the day of judgment. check him, it is ultimately up to him who goes and who doesn't. man, jinn, angels, would be presumptuous to know exactly how their performance compares to our potential god made us with. if u are so sure u have accomplished heaven kill ur self and relieve ur self from the worldly bondage here.
ur purpose on earth, what is it? our purpose on earth is to worship god, and doing good to others is part of it, as well as singing his praises in congregation. the adherence to the ways he set, even when no one is around to see, is also part of his worship. our actions will be judged against our intentions. that is the reason for judgment day.
following his instruction is part of his worship, and he said to gain knowledge from the cradle to the grave. so limiting ur knowledge about his other creations is going against his instruction and so contrary to his worship. we will be judged accordingly.

so, what do u think the purpose of judgment day is ?

You seem to think I am against the doing of good works. I am not. But what if you did not do enough? image if our laws did not have preset fines. Then the police could take a man's car for dark tint. How fair would that be, imagine life in prison for driving on the shoulder (doh it might be good) or capital punishment for breaking a red light. So on the day of judgment how do you know god will judge you fairly, if he has not already told you the penalty for your sin and how much of your effort is necessary to atone for it. The Laws we have have told us the penalty before we break it, but god would not are we more moral and just than god then?

[toyo682]

[color=#00BF40]

the answer to ur last question i put two stories to show it, but u not see it.
we should do things for the sake of being responsible and caring i.e. selfless. that is what god intends for us here on earth. and u dont need to believe in god for that to happen, u would still be following the laws prescribed, others would be benefiting, u would be racking up blessings.
the reward for doing so is heaven.
even if u do it for the purpose of going to heaven, it is a worldly selfless desire, and people would still be benefiting from it, generating good and subsequent blessing.

but take for instance alcohol consumption. it is a sin according to islam. some may get sin for it. but some people are too weak for it and cannot help them selves. they may not get as much sin for it as compared to me. i fully well know the negative effects, and know how grave a ban it is. i can control my self. and if i do it, i do so with no excuses. so i may get more sin and punishment for a mere glass of puncheon than a person who does a nip a day. they cannot control it, i can.

the more blessings god gives us in this world , the greater the potential and responsibility we have to follow his instruction and do good.

the imam was granted entry into heaven, not because of the services he led, the word he spread, how well liked by the people he was. no, he was granted heaven because of the act of removing an obstacle from the path leading to a mosque, making it easier for the people to go to worship god, when no body was there to see, an his sole intention was to make it easier for others with no desire for his self.
the prostitute was granted entry to heaven because she gave a thirsty dog in the desert water because of compassion and empathy, with no reward to be received.
god wants us to develop ur caring selfless nature and higher intellect, rather than be focused on and subjected to our carnal emotional nature.

so, what do u think the purpose of judgment day is ?

[size=150]So one work of goodness then allows a person to enter heaven and causes god to forgive all other sins? So then we can assume the Hitler, Pablo Escobar and the bandits who shot the man for his music a month or two ago, the men who do rub people on a certain part of our highway, the rapist, etc are all going to heaven, unless we can say they have never done anything good in the lives. What does that say about the holiness of god and his justice.