ISIS in T&T?

[DFC]

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[16 cycles]

In a few paragraphs, its possible to explain the different 'sects' e.g. sunni ...differences in beliefs and origins?

Learning alot and trying to understand more...

you guys claim that muslims are not saying anything or worse yet supporting ISIS. I have posted above statements of the scholars of Islam denouncing ISIS and their actions.

Have you not seen or heard it in the news / media?

I wonder why?

not sure where you got "you guys claim that muslims are not saying anything or worse yet supporting ISIS." from me trying to understand more abt Islaam and the people that follow it....

In any case, given that the western media offers a distorted view of what actually exists, it might be better if someone with a better understanding, explain it to us...

Would like to know about 'Hosay' as well....origins / meaning etc.

[AdamB]

In a few paragraphs, its possible to explain the different 'sects' e.g. sunni ...differences in beliefs and origins?

Learning alot and trying to understand more...

you guys claim that muslims are not saying anything or worse yet supporting ISIS. I have posted above statements of the scholars of Islam denouncing ISIS and their actions.

Have you not seen or heard it in the news / media?

I wonder why?

not sure where you got "you guys claim that muslims are not saying anything or worse yet supporting ISIS." from me trying to understand more abt Islaam and the people that follow it....

In any case, given that the western media offers a distorted view of what actually exists, it might be better if someone with a better understanding, explain it to us...

Would like to know about 'Hosay' as well....origins / meaning etc.

Google it. Hosay is a festival of the Shia. They are not muslims.

The Shia disbelieve in Muhammad as the prophet of Islam, saying that the angel gabriel made a mistake when he brought down the revelation of the Quran to Muhammad. That it was supposed to be for 'Ali the cousin of Muhammad.

A muslim is one who testifies that Allah is the One True GOD and Muhammad is His Messenger/prophet. Therefore, disbelief in the second part of the Shahaadah renders the faith of the person incomplete.

The Shia "celebrates" the battle of Karbala when the grandson Hussain of prophet Muhammad was martyred. They beat their chests along with other innovated customs.

This practise is not of Islam.

[16 cycles]

Ohhhhh.....scene

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Hindus and christians never asked for their own states in trinidad.

Muslims asked.

who are those muslims?

so it have "those muslims" and "these muslims" in Trinidad?

[The Paleontologist]

http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-abou ... 66132.html

[AdamB]

Hindus and christians never asked for their own states in trinidad.

Muslims asked.

who are those muslims?

so it have "those muslims" and "these muslims" in Trinidad?

There are different groups but i am unaware of anyone asking for their own state...well except Tobago House of Assembly.

[RASC]

What more evidence y'all need?
AdamB is blatantly saying "They're not Muslim"

This is a common argument used by Sunni Radicalism and terror promoters in these Mosques.

No wonder he's secretly in support of this proxy war between Saudi and Iran.

[AdamB]

What more evidence y'all need?
AdamB is blatantly saying "They're not Muslim"

This is a common argument used by Sunni Radicalism and terror promoters in these Mosques.

No wonder he's secretly in support of this proxy war between Saudi and Iran.

man knows what i secretly support yes! just like the weapons of mass destruction that Saddam had...

i only smell fear....

[16 cycles]

http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/campaigni ... -the-west/

^ on topic

[UML]

Again I ask, AdamB do you have a US Visa?

Are you afraid to answer because it will show you are a hypocrite?!!

[AdamB]

http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-about-islam/faith-and-worship/quran-and-scriptures/166132.html

Worth posting:

Violence in the Qur’an? .
Question and answer details
Name of Questioner: Tom
Reply date: 2012/07/11
Question: I'm a 3rd year college student taking a world religions class. Knowing very little about Islam and Muslims, I chose to do my research on what the Qur’an says about violence and peace. I felt the need to do so because I feel my viewpoint is skewed from recent events. I've done some suggestive readings so far from the Qur’an, and I am very confused. First off, I'm a Lutheran - born and raised. I understand and see the contradictions that lie within the Christian Bible about violence and peace. I'm also seeing the same contradictions in the Qur’an. There seems to be a progression from complete submission, to suggestive defensive fighting, to commanded defensive fighting, to absolute non-tolerance. I was wondering if you could help explain this, or if I'm mistaken, correct me with evidence. Thank you for your time.

consultant: Shahul Hameed
AnswerSalam Tom,

Thank you very much for your question.

First of all, we would like to draw your attention to the fact that the Bible and the Qur’an are different in many ways. This is important because a Christian who is accustomed to reading the Bible may adopt the same approach to the Qur’an and consequently go wrong in his understanding or interpretation.

The Bible is not just one book; it is a collection of a number of books written by various anonymous authors over a long period, overlapping many centuries. This is one of the reasons for the inconsistencies we see there. Whereas the Qur’an is God’s own word, revealed to one prophet who got it recorded in one book.

The verses of the Qur’an were revealed over a period of twenty three years, and surely there is a progression in many of the ideas of the Qur’an. But, if we study the Qur’an in the light of the events in the life of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, the Qur’an poses no problem to a discerning reader. For example, you may consider the permission to fight.

You can see that during the first thirteen years of Muhammad’s prophetic life, he was the very embodiment of patient suffering and perseverance. He and his followers were subjected to the most brutal torture and persecution; they were boycotted and expelled from their homes. It was at this juncture that God commanded him to migrate from Makkah to Madinah, where he was received with open arms by the people there.

The Makkans feared that Muhammad would return to Makkah for revenge and they wanted to destroy him and his nascent religion once for all. So there was a military campaign led by the Makkans against Muhammad and his companions in Madinah. It was at this time, that God permitted Muhammad and his followers to fight. The relevant verse reads what means:
*{To those against whom war is made, permission is given [to defend themselves], because they are wronged - and verily, Allah is Most Powerful to give them victory – [they are] those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right – [for no cause] except that they say: “Our Lord is Allah...”}* (Al-Hajj 22:39-40)

As is evident from the above, the permission given here to fight is in self defense. Probably one of the verses that confused you might be the one which means:
*{But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem [of war]; but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and pay zakah, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.}* (At-Tawbah 9:5)

This is a verse taken from Surah At-Tawba. This chapter of the Qur’an was revealed in the context when the newly organized Muslim society in Madinah was engaged in defending themselves against the pagan aggressors. The major question dealt with here is, as to how the Muslims should treat those who break an existing treaty at will.

The first clause in the verse refers to the time-honored Arab custom of a period of warning and waiting given to the offenders, after a clear violation. That is, they will be given four months’ time to repair the damage done or make peace. But if nothing happens after the expiry of these forbidden months, what should be done? This is what the present verse says. According to this verse, fighting must be resumed until one of the two things happens: Either the enemy should be vanquished by relentless fighting. That is what is meant by *{then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem [of war]}*; or they should repent, establish prayers and pay zakah, etc.

This is one of those verses of the Qur’an which are likely to be misunderstood, if quoted out of context. We must understand that this fighting was against a people who forced the Prophet and his companions to leave not only their own homes but all their property and even their hometown of Makkah to Madinah. Once the Muslims were organized into a community in those lawless times, the rules to be followed by the Muslims were clearly laid down, even in the matter of war. Since Islam is a comprehensive system, no human activity could be ignored. And given the nature of mankind, we cannot imagine a situation where fighting is completely ruled out either.

As can be seen, the above injunctions on fighting are not on an individual level, but only in the case of a society that strives to flourish and thrive as a nation. But even here the norms are clear: fighting is only in self defense or for the establishment of justice; and always fighting is the last option. And no one is allowed to transgress the limits set by God.

In individual lives, the norms that should be followed also are clearly laid down as in the verses which mean:
*{The recompense for an injury is an injury equal thereto [in degree]: but if a person forgives and makes reconciliation, his reward is due from God: for [God] loveth not those who do wrong.}* (Ash-Shura 42:40)

*{Let there be no compulsion in religion: truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects evil and believes in God hath grasped the most trustworthy hand hold, that never breaks...}* (Al-Baqarah 2:256)

*{O ye who believe! seek help with patient perseverance and prayer; for God is with those who patiently persevere.}* (Al-Baqarah 2:153)

*{Nor can goodness and evil be equal. Repel [evil] with what is better: Then will he between whom and thee was hatred become as it were thy friend and intimate!}* (Fussilat 41:34)

It is clear from the above that in the Qur’an there is a provision for fighting for the establishment of justice and in self defense; but “absolute non-tolerance” is an idea quite opposed to the spirit of the brotherhood and universality taught by the Qur’an.

Hope the above answers your question; and God knows best.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

In a few paragraphs, its possible to explain the different 'sects' e.g. sunni ...differences in beliefs and origins?

Learning alot and trying to understand more...

you guys claim that muslims are not saying anything or worse yet supporting ISIS. I have posted above statements of the scholars of Islam denouncing ISIS and their actions.

Have you not seen or heard it in the news / media?

I wonder why?

these are photos from protests when a cartoonist made a drawing of the Prophet











If ISIS is misrepresenting Islam yet name themselves ISLAMIC STATE, why are there no protests like this against Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, leader of ISIS?

[AdamB]

Again I ask, AdamB do you have a US Visa?

Are you afraid to answer because it will show you are a hypocrite?!!

NO. I last visited the US 10 yrs ago for work purposes (not vacation or leisure), so the visa would have expired by now...plus we have changed passports.

before i got onto the plane in Piarco, i had to take off my shoes. fear i tell yuh!

i don't desire to have one...i happy here. doh need to cut my little money to 1/6th and then go and waste it...

[AdamB]

In a few paragraphs, its possible to explain the different 'sects' e.g. sunni ...differences in beliefs and origins?

Learning alot and trying to understand more...

you guys claim that muslims are not saying anything or worse yet supporting ISIS. I have posted above statements of the scholars of Islam denouncing ISIS and their actions.

Have you not seen or heard it in the news / media?

I wonder why?

these are photos from protests when a cartoonist made a drawing of the Prophet











If ISIS is misrepresenting Islam yet name themselves ISLAMIC STATE, why are there no protests like this against Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, leader of ISIS?

demonstrations are not of ISLAM! you need to ask those in the photos...

[UML]

Again I ask, AdamB do you have a US Visa?

Are you afraid to answer because it will show you are a hypocrite?!!

NO. I last visited the US 10 yrs ago for work purposes (not vacation or leisure), so the visa would have expired by now...plus we have changed passports.

before i got onto the plane in Piarco, i had to take off my shoes. fear i tell yuh!

i don't desire to have one...i happy here. doh need to cut my little money to 1/6th and then go and waste it...

So ur fundamentalism is a recent thing then? What is your view on the WTC destruction?


Btw it opens back today

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

you need to ask those in the photos...

are Muslims that much in disagreement with each other? Why all the exclusion?

in one instance you say Islam is one, but in the other you claim "them, not us" or "they are not real Muslims"

There are millions of Muslims that protest and take part in demonstrations.

Anyway you have side stepped my point. There was more activity by Muslims, even locally, against Israel than there is against ISIS



Why do you think this is so?

[HSA]

ISIS in T&T? NO.............hooligans...YES...Close thread....

[RASC]

ISIS in T&T? NO.............hooligans...YES...Close thread....

Why must they close the thread?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

ISIS in T&T? NO.............hooligans...YES...Close thread....

what does the topic of ISIS have to do with hooligans or a comparison?

It's already been shown that Trinis have gone to fight for ISIS.

[HSA]

ISIS in T&T? NO.............hooligans...YES...Close thread....

what does the topic of ISIS have to do with hooligans or a comparison?

It's already been shown that Trinis have gone to fight for ISIS.

ahhhhh.......trinis have gone to fight for isis....no isis in trinidad...but we have trinidadians who may want to go and fight for isis...but again....no isis in T&T....close thread

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

ISIS in T&T? NO.............hooligans...YES...Close thread....

what does the topic of ISIS have to do with hooligans or a comparison?

It's already been shown that Trinis have gone to fight for ISIS.

ahhhhh.......trinis have gone to fight for isis....no isis in trinidad...but we have trinidadians who may want to go and fight for isis...but again....no isis in T&T....close thread

Did you read the first post of the topic?

What plans does the government have to deal with these rebels when they want to re-enter T&T?

Do we understand the significance of ISIS in our landscape?

that is what we are discussing.

[RASC]

So these Trini Isis members are going over on their own accord. No one is helping them locally they are making contact AFTER they leave Trinidad with these terrorists?

Is that what you're saying HSA?

[HSA]

So these Trini Isis members are going over on their own accord. No one is helping them locally they are making contact AFTER they leave Trinidad with these terrorists?

Is that what you're saying HSA?

I think it is impossible to reach there on their own accord as you say...they reach there by aircraft...

[pioneer]

Islamic State and Trinidad and Tobago

https://drugtrade.wordpress.com/

At least since the 1970s Muslims of T&T have answered the call to be active in the war against the enemies of Islam both at home and abroad. In the aftermath of the attacks on the US in 2001a two pronged strategy was launched amongst Muslims in T&T which involved the spread and ultimate dominance of Salafi Jihadi discourse over the Muslim Ummah/Community of T&T whilst Muslims were recruited to depart T&T to fight in the wars against the west in Muslim lands: Afghanistan etc.

Muslim boys of T&T were sent to madrassas famous for teaching dominant members of the Afghani and Pakistani Taliban. Likewise boys were sent to the premier repositories of Salafi Jihadi Wahabi extremism in Saudi Arabia for instruction. This strategy has been executed for years under the public mask of the discourse of “Islam is a religion of peace” which involves naming persons/ groups as being non-Muslims/radicals and now the latest moniker: terrorists.

The first whipping boy of this strategy was the Jamaat al Muslimeen before July 27 1990 and since 1990 the perfect villain of the piece to reflect the gaze from those who are committed to an extremist agenda and the politicians over time have bought into this strategy of deception hook line and sinker. Suddenly the talking heads of the Muslim Ummah are lining up to publicly state their support for the war on terror in its latest phase stating again their dictum that Islam is a religion of peace and Islamic State and its members are outside the pale of Islam. I await the next phase of pinning the donkey tail on the Jamaat al Muslimeen the knee jerk villain.

What the talking heads must tell the kafirun/unbelievers of T&T why in the aftermath of 9/11 when Adnan el Shukrijumah was on his sojourn in T&T no one gave give him up to the kafir but rather chose to give shelter and support to this world famous extremist? Why suddenly today the fervour to denounce Islamic State and its followers? Is it because the government of today is drastically different from that during the visit of Shukrijumah? Shukrijumah visited whilst the PNM was ruling. Do we then as Muslims enjoin the good and forbid the evil based on which party is ruling? Does the politics of race trump the Will of Almighty Allah (swt)? The next glaring reality is the inability of members of the media both local and abroad to understand what is the Islamic State with the expected resort to sensational declarations supported by nothing that is real. The latest is the 1000 USD per day pay for foreign fighters. In the order of battle of the Islamic State there is a hierarchy of fighters. The top echelon are those battle hardened veterans of wars fought around the world and at the dreg level are those who have no battlefield experience and reputation. Besides the Arab oligarchy that wields power in the Islamic State the most respected fighters are the Chechens. A raw recruit from T&T with no battlefield experience if accepted is placed in the dreg level and must seek to be jumped in to join a squad led by a fighter with rank and power. A beheading on video released to the world and an appearance on an Islamic State video outside of battlefield heroic action are paths to rank to be jumped in. Never forget to be Shahid/Martyr means you are dead without profit in the here and now. This then is the gravest threat to a citizen of Trinidad and Tobago falling into the hands of Islamic State they can end up as the victim of the public act to enable successful jump in.

The 1000 USD per day is then as usual speculative propaganda to feed panic. Finally if successive governments of Trinidad and Tobago were intent on doing their job on monitoring and policing Islamic extremism there would have been no need to co-sponsor a UN Security resolution on Islamic State. Reputation for solid interventions and quality intelligence in the international community trumps co-sponsoring resolutions that amount to little geopolitically.

[HSA]

ISIS in T&T? NO.............hooligans...YES...Close thread....

what does the topic of ISIS have to do with hooligans or a comparison?

It's already been shown that Trinis have gone to fight for ISIS.

ahhhhh.......trinis have gone to fight for isis....no isis in trinidad...but we have trinidadians who may want to go and fight for isis...but again....no isis in T&T....close thread

Did you read the first post of the topic?

What plans does the government have to deal with these rebels when they want to re-enter T&T?

Do we understand the significance of ISIS in our landscape?

that is what we are discussing.

Government will do nothing as usual..but we have to wait and see.....and yes we understand the significance of isis in our landscape....thread closed.........

[16 cycles]

For ppl to reach isis, is there some sort of recommendation process?

Can anyone show up at the border and join?

If not, who manages the logistics here and receuitment?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

and yes we understand the significance of isis in our landscape....thread closed.........

we do? why so many questions and varying opinions in this thread then?

any reason you keep asking for the thread to be closed? Do you feel uncomfortable with this topic being discussed?

[equipped2ripp]

you need to ask those in the photos...

are Muslims that much in disagreement with each other? Why all the exclusion?

in one instance you say Islam is one, but in the other you claim "them, not us" or "they are not real Muslims"

There are millions of Muslims that protest and take part in demonstrations.

Anyway you have side stepped my point. There was more activity by Muslims, even locally, against Israel than there is against ISIS



Why do you think this is so?

and when you go to the Middle East, all these companies are there

[Rainman]

So AdamB, if you were offered the opportunity to join ISIS, would you?

Not being antagonistic here, i'm genuinely curious.