the right to bear arms

[sMASH]

I suggest those laws are tantamount to slavery!

Atheist :

There is a reason why there is a right to bear arms in the USA. It's not primarily for personal protection. It's there to make sure that the people would always have the means to standup to and if needed remove a tyrannical government.
.

The major reason it was included is because the USA was a young country which fought a war to gets its independence. The empire building aspirations of the British, french etc. meant the US with its vast lands could always be invaded.

You are a bit misguided...carry on.

I believe that your interpretation of he rationale for the second ammendment is wrong. They they were young and had many greater forces to defend against. But they did not separate from the mainland to remain small and a lesser power . They would have imagined that it might become one day as great as the others or even greater as they are now.
That being postulated, they would not have made that the second ammendment , but it would have been placed later down. There would have been stipulations and clauses to say that it would stop being effective as they have established them selves and the government can protect the people.


No, they did not do that. They put other ability for each citizen to defend themselves, family, neighbours, and property as three second most important right. Second only after the idelic human right.

Why?



Time immemorial powers have risen and fallen. And when the system could not protect the people, they were overtaken .

Letting people protect them selves will also help where the government system could become hostile towards the citizens as in a dictatorship.

You pacifists are accustomed to your safety and well being insured by others by paying taxes. All well and good when all is well and good .

Islam teaches to prepare your self for your own defense, even in good times because times could change and you should not be caught unprepared.

We make jokes about the wild wild west, I would like to be prepared for it before it happens.

[Firewall]

I too fear Trinidad becoming like the Wild Wild West.

Remember the Native Americans?

When faced with the threat of firearms and their only protection was bows and arrows...............

wonder what happened to them?

[PariaMan]

I find if big businessmen can apply for and get licences then why should I not be able to do the same thing.

Is it that my life is worthless than their own?

The same should apply for all.

All life is precious!

maybe because the big businessmen are at a higher risk of being held up, kidnapped, robbed in their business place or elsewhere because of the money they have there?

All those killing taking place are big businessmen?
What is the statistics for crime against big business men?
Is it that less crime affects them because they are armed?

Certainly cannot be the last one because that will be against your argument!

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

I find if big businessmen can apply for and get licences then why should I not be able to do the same thing.

Is it that my life is worthless than their own?

The same should apply for all.

All life is precious!

maybe because the big businessmen are at a higher risk of being held up, kidnapped, robbed in their business place or elsewhere because of the money they have there?

All those killing taking place are big businessmen?
What is the statistics for crime against big business men?
Is it that less crime affects them because they are armed?

Certainly cannot be the last one because that will be against your argument!

well with that logic the people we should allow to have guns to protect themselves are the ones who get gunned down the most which would be gang members and their families. Statistics an all.

The same way big businesses need armed guard services to collect cash at the end of each day, the CoP justifies granting firearms licenses to big businessmen.

One could argue "who was being kidnapped the most during the spate of kidnappings?"

[PariaMan]

But if you agree with guns for bi businessmen then you are agreeing that guns serve to deter attack on a person.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

But if you agree with guns for bi businessmen then you are agreeing that guns serve to deter attack on a person.

at which point in time did I say agreed with guns for businessmen?

I said the CoP justifies his decision based on the added risk that big businesses have when dealing with large amounts of cash or businessmen for being held up / kidnapped.

In any case the argument is that everyone should be able to carry a firearm to protect themselves and my argument against it is that will result in a tit for tat where the citizens and criminals will always be trying to have a bigger weapon than the other.

[PariaMan]

So you are saying no one should have guns except the police?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

So you are saying no one should have guns except the police?

what is so terrible about that outcome?

[PariaMan]

The bandits will certainly approve of course!

[Firewall]

Some business men have guns......fact

Do their businesses get robbed?

If they do actually get robbed do the robberies take place with these "bigger guns" you speak of?

[PariaMan]

Some Business men have guns. There are no negative repercussions.
No arms race with bandits. No reports of business men going berserk and killing people for no reason.
There have been reports of crime being stopped by said business men
Thus as a pilot project this is a success.

I grew up in the country where most households had shotguns.
There were no reports of farmers going crazy and shooting people.
There also no reports about people breaking into house to rob rape or steal guns.
(Who wants to enter a house where a man with a shot gun is waiting)
People were very responsible with their guns.
There was no "Arms Race"

To me this was also successful gun ownership.

Duane idea of a "ARMS RACE" seems to have no basis in reality

There seem to be no reasonable factor why the process of acquiring a gun should not be done more efficiently with people getting their guns in a reasonable time frame

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

So you are saying no one should have guns except the police?

what is so terrible about that outcome?

The bandits will certainly approve of course!

you said "no one should have guns except the police"; that statement includes everyone BUT the police, which means in that scenario the bandits also have no guns (hopefully due to excellent enforcement by police, coast guard, customs and fellow citizens).

unless you meant to say "So you are saying no one should have guns except bandits the police?", in which case it is not vastly different from our current situation!

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Some Business men have guns. There are no negative repercussions.
No arms race with bandits. No reports of business men going berserk and killing people for no reason.
There have been reports of crime being stopped by said business men

which is proof that the current difficulty in citizens getting firearms works. Ease it up and there may very well be an arms race.

[Firewall]

Some Business men have guns. There are no negative repercussions.
No arms race with bandits. No reports of business men going berserk and killing people for no reason.
There have been reports of crime being stopped by said business men

which is proof that the current difficulty in citizens getting firearms works. Ease it up and there may very well be an arms race.

I lol'd at your "proof"

[88sins]

Some Business men have guns. There are no negative repercussions.
No arms race with bandits. No reports of business men going berserk and killing people for no reason.
There have been reports of crime being stopped by said business men

which is proof that the current difficulty in citizens getting firearms works. Ease it up and there may very well be an arms race.

That's kinda like sayin you admit to knowing guns work to deter & stop crime but that you dont believe it & find it unacceptable. Some kinda tieuptwisupacceptancedenial statement

[kjaglal76]

duane = bandit

[88sins]

^ thas a lil harsh

[Redman]

Duane idea of a "ARMS RACE" seems to have no basis in reality

This I agree with.
Pariaman says the gun owners he knows are responsible,
I've said the same, I'm sure others can do likewise.
We have no evidence of the arms race, no evidenced of legal gun holders going primal.
In fact what we have is exactly the opposite.


A personal choice is just that.
It cannot be grounds to remove the abilities of other choose,even when their choice is different to yours.

[rocknrolla]

meanwhile in russia

[sMASH]

^^life skills yuh call dat

[88sins]

Not really skills, just practice. Most combat weapons are designed to allow for tool free field tear down & reassembly in less than 1 minute.

Ever wonder why nobody wants to deploy troops into Russia? Look the answer. Nice video though.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ he said "life skills", not "skills" as in "skillful"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_skills

Duane idea of a "ARMS RACE" seems to have no basis in reality

This I agree with.
Pariaman says the gun owners he knows are responsible,
I've said the same, I'm sure others can do likewise.
We have no evidence of the arms race, no evidenced of legal gun holders going primal.
In fact what we have is exactly the opposite.


A personal choice is just that.
It cannot be grounds to remove the abilities of other choose,even when their choice is different to yours.

but we do have confessions of a local gang leader who admits that they need to have bigger guns than the competition and they pay $30,000 and up for each AK47 they get smuggled through Icacos.

[Redman]

^ he said "life skills", not "skills" as in "skillful"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_skills

Duane idea of a "ARMS RACE" seems to have no basis in reality

This I agree with.
Pariaman says the gun owners he knows are responsible,
I've said the same, I'm sure others can do likewise.
We have no evidence of the arms race, no evidenced of legal gun holders going primal.
In fact what we have is exactly the opposite.


A personal choice is just that.
It cannot be grounds to remove the abilities of other choose,even when their choice is different to yours.

but we do have confessions of a local gang leader who admits that they need to have bigger guns than the competition and they pay $30,000 and up for each AK47 they get smuggled through Icacos.

His competition would be drug dealers.
Not private citizens who are defending themselves.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ he said "life skills", not "skills" as in "skillful"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_skills

Duane idea of a "ARMS RACE" seems to have no basis in reality

This I agree with.
Pariaman says the gun owners he knows are responsible,
I've said the same, I'm sure others can do likewise.
We have no evidence of the arms race, no evidenced of legal gun holders going primal.
In fact what we have is exactly the opposite.


A personal choice is just that.
It cannot be grounds to remove the abilities of other choose,even when their choice is different to yours.

but we do have confessions of a local gang leader who admits that they need to have bigger guns than the competition and they pay $30,000 and up for each AK47 they get smuggled through Icacos.

His competition would be drug dealers.
Not private citizens who are defending themselves.

for now, yes.

but the dealers themselves don't be the ones using all the guns they buy for the gang. Their henchmen / gang members do and their henchmen / members may also be involved in other crime / robbery / car-jacking etc.

why not fix crime rather than give everyone a gun?

[[X]~Outlaw]

Duane 10yrs from now I'll hear you asking the same question "Why not fix crime?"

[88sins]

^ he said "life skills", not "skills" as in "skillful"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_skills

And that video, specifically, can't qualify as "life skills" due to the simple fact that the entire kalashnikov line up of rifles are built with loose tolerances and are designed to practically never need tearing down, save major malfunctions(that would more likely destroy them). So essentially the term "life skills" can not apply in this context.
BTW, the weapon in the video is an AK74, not AK47. They are two entirely different rifles, from caliber, mag shape size & capacity, ammunition, length, weight etc.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Duane 10yrs from now I'll hear you asking the same question "Why not fix crime?"

and the solution is to arm the citizens?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ he said "life skills", not "skills" as in "skillful"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_skills

And that video, specifically, can't qualify as "life skills" due to the simple fact that the entire kalashnikov line up of rifles are built with loose tolerances and are designed to practically never need tearing down, save major malfunctions(that would more likely destroy them). So essentially the term "life skills" can not apply in this context.

sMASH perhaps meant that the life skill here is taking down and rebuilding a firearm. But it seems you are more interested in showing us your firearm knowledge than understanding what the users are posting.

BTW, the weapon in the video is an AK74, not AK47. They are two entirely different rifles, from caliber, mag shape size & capacity, ammunition, length, weight etc.

take that up with the person who posted the video on youtube and gave it that name.

in any case I've already stated my personal point of view on this topic. Good luck in trying to make your point of view law.

[[X]~Outlaw]

Duane 10yrs from now I'll hear you asking the same question "Why not fix crime?"

and the solution is to arm the citizens?

Lol whats your solution Duane? You sound like a politician

[88sins]

in any case I've already stated my personal point of view on this topic. Good luck in trying to make your point of view law.

We all know your opinion. Just remember that your POV isn't necessarily "law" either
Always be open to change, ya never know, you might like it