The Religion Discussion

[illumin@ti]

yuh see dis wee ched ting u talkin bout,,, meem know nun bout dat nah ,,

[megadoc1]

if you worship Christ then you are a Christian. Christianity is a RELIGION and you are part of it. There is no way to cop-out of that.
.

ok but if you neglect Christ you are part of this world and when you die
and go before God you will be judge a righteous judgment
there is only one way to cop-out of that and its through faith in Jesus
but it can only be done while you are alive though

[d spike]

Here we go again, folks. Where did I lie? Witness falsely? Preach falsehoods (It's one word, infant)?
By the way, it's probably not 'mocking' if it's the truth. A brief reminder:

All you had to do was just take part in a rational discussion... but no, not you... you couldn't resist getting a chance to hit the big, red "Rebuke" button on your new toy, could you? Just had to blast and condemn, and make sure this new religion thing was working, eh? Thanks, lad... TWO THOUSAND YEARS OF ATTEMPTING TO SPREAD PEACE AND LOVE... and you just had to go and fcuk it up. eh? Too much to resist, eh? Just like the little idiot on the beach, who gets his jollies by waiting for other children to painstakingly build their sandcastles, to then run in and smash it...
The Devil's work, says I. Satan doesn't have one sheit to do now... he's cocking his feet up in a hammock on a beach somewhere, happy in the knowledge that you are somewhere on the internet, screwing christianity over a chair, in full view of everyone.

[megadoc1]

Here we go again, folks. Where did I lie? Witness falsely? Preach falsehoods (It's one word, infant)?
By the way, it's probably not 'mocking' if it's the truth. A brief reminder:

All you had to do was just take part in a rational discussion... but no, not you... you couldn't resist getting a chance to hit the big, red "Rebuke" button on your new toy, could you? Just had to blast and condemn, and make sure this new religion thing was working, eh? Thanks, lad... TWO THOUSAND YEARS OF ATTEMPTING TO SPREAD PEACE AND LOVE... and you just had to go and fcuk it up. eh? Too much to resist, eh? Just like the little idiot on the beach, who gets his jollies by waiting for other children to painstakingly build their sandcastles, to then run in and smash it...
The Devil's work, says I. Satan doesn't have one sheit to do now... he's cocking his feet up in a hammock on a beach somewhere, happy in the knowledge that you are somewhere on the internet, screwing christianity over a chair, in full view of everyone.

yeah this is about as much as you know...lol
do you take your statement as truth?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ LOL

still having problems proving what you believe in so you are claiming 'this is we thread'?
no

sin is a human concept, conceived by man's own conscience.
Look up "Super Ego".

exactly and God gave us a conscience so when we go before him we will have no excuse

No problem there, but what makes one person's conscience tell them to pray to Allah 5 times a day, tell another to have a puja or ramayan, and tell another to give 10% of our salary to the church or another to forget all of that and go and help some less fortunate than ourselves it is the same thing. It is all part of being sentient.

Why does this god given conscience not work the same in everyone?

[megadoc1]

^ LOL

still having problems proving what you believe in so you are claiming 'this is we thread'?
no

sin is a human concept, conceived by man's own conscience.
Look up "Super Ego".

exactly and God gave us a conscience so when we go before him we will have no excuse

No problem there, but what makes one person's conscience tell them to pray to Allah 5 times a day, tell another to have a puja or ramayan, and tell another to give 10% of our salary to the church or another to forget all of that and go and help some less fortunate than ourselves it is the same thing. It is all part of being sentient.

Why does this god given conscience not work the same in everyone?

it is the same but it is who and what we let influence it
I want Jesus to influence mine because he said that he is life and I want just that

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

if you worship Christ then you are a Christian. Christianity is a RELIGION and you are part of it. There is no way to cop-out of that.
.

ok

So then you admit to being a Christian and following that religion

[megadoc1]

if you worship Christ then you are a Christian. Christianity is a RELIGION and you are part of it. There is no way to cop-out of that.
.

ok

So then you admit to being a Christian and following that religion

if thats how the world see it why should I bother ?,I know what I'm for

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Why does this god given conscience not work the same in everyone?

it is the same but it is who and what we let influence it
I want Jesus to influence mine because he said that he is life and I want just that

but what makes you think you are right and they are wrong in their choice?
what proof is there?

[d spike]

yeah yuh know just admit that you were in error like here

Some time ago, Megadoc naively attempted to define a fundamentalist christian as one who believes in the fundamental teachings of Christ. He obviously thought that viewers of that post were even less well-read than he was, and as his definition sounds simple and self-explanatory, folks would believe it to be so. He very well knows what it means and refers to: literal application and strict adherence to scripture. Thanks to 9/11, even the most illiterate among us knows the meaning of "fundamentalist".

Not my fault you refuse to use a dictionary. Are you claiming to not making such a definition? You can't remember what you yourself wrote? (Oh yes, I forgot this is megadoc we're dealing with.) Here we are, quoting from p. 115:

a fundamentalist Christian is someone who believes in the fundamentals of Christianity which are
1. The Bible is the inspired Word of God, without flaw in its original form.
2. Christ was born of a virgin.
3. The miracles of Christ are historical events.
4. Christ's Crucifixion is substitutionary atonement (He willingly accepted the judgment for our sins).
5. Bodily resurrection.
coming to think of it a fundamentalist Christian is one that contradicts you due to his beliefs and experience with God based on the bible alone

I trust that those with eyes can see... if megadoc was in a position to do something about it, and our laws were not in place...
Many of us would be burnt at the stake...
("Gimme dat ol' time religion...")

d spike where according to scripture am I to do so?

Here I was referring to your attitude towards others who hold beliefs that seemingly differ to yours.
I have no idea what scripture has to do with your ATTITUDE...
but I think that is the problem plaguing everyone else here.

[megadoc1]

Why does this god given conscience not work the same in everyone?

it is the same but it is who and what we let influence it
I want Jesus to influence mine because he said that he is life and I want just that

but what makes you think you are right and they are wrong in their choice?
what proof is there?

I prove to myself that Jesus is lord it doesnt matter if someone else think it is wrong

[megadoc1]

yeah yuh know just admit that you were in error like here

Some time ago, Megadoc naively attempted to define a fundamentalist christian as one who believes in the fundamental teachings of Christ. He obviously thought that viewers of that post were even less well-read than he was, and as his definition sounds simple and self-explanatory, folks would believe it to be so. He very well knows what it means and refers to: literal application and strict adherence to scripture. Thanks to 9/11, even the most illiterate among us knows the meaning of "fundamentalist".

Not my fault you refuse to use a dictionary. Are you claiming to not making such a definition? You can't remember what you yourself wrote? (Oh yes, I forgot this is megadoc we're dealing with.) Here we are, quoting from p. 115:

a fundamentalist Christian is someone who believes in the fundamentals of Christianity which are
1. The Bible is the inspired Word of God, without flaw in its original form.
2. Christ was born of a virgin.
3. The miracles of Christ are historical events.
4. Christ's Crucifixion is substitutionary atonement (He willingly accepted the judgment for our sins).
5. Bodily resurrection.
coming to think of it a fundamentalist Christian is one that contradicts you due to his beliefs and experience with God based on the bible alone

I trust that those with eyes can see... if megadoc was in a position to do something about it, and our laws were not in place...
Many of us would be burnt at the stake...
("Gimme dat ol' time religion...")

d spike where according to scripture am I to do so?

Here I was referring to your attitude towards others who hold beliefs that seemingly differ to yours.
I have no idea what scripture has to do with your ATTITUDE...
but I think that is the problem plaguing everyone else here.

d spike make some sense nuh ... if I am a literalist like you claimed then
logicaly I cannot burn people at the stake because no where in scripture said so
so you are in error..thats ok doh beat up

[Razkal]

^that alone should revoke your right to speak on the matter with any level of certainty or conviction imo..

[d spike]

yeah this is about as much as you know...lol
Luckily for me, and those I am responsible for, I know a great deal more than this... and judging by the material you have displayed thus far, more than you. Learning is something that never ceases. Your lack of humility and your presumption block knowledge, and have rung the death-knell of Wisdom long ago.

do you take your statement as truth?
What do you think? Attempt the use of logic - despite your fears, it won't hurt you.
I claim displeasure at your calling me a liar. Would I then deliberately make a statement that I know to be false... and admit it to be so?

[megadoc1]

yeah this is about as much as you know...lol
Luckily for me, and those I am responsible for, I know a great deal more than this... and judging by the material you have displayed thus far, more than you. Learning is something that never ceases. Your lack of humility and your presumption block knowledge, and have rung the death-knell of Wisdom long ago.

do you take your statement as truth?
What do you think? Attempt the use of logic - despite your fears, it won't hurt you.
I claim displeasure at your calling me a liar. Would I then deliberately make a statement that I know to be false... and admit it to be so?

so then why do you need to lie and come up with tricks when
concerning God?

[Chimera]

Why does this god given conscience not work the same in everyone?

it is the same but it is who and what we let influence it
I want Jesus to influence mine because he said that he is life and I want just that

but what makes you think you are right and they are wrong in their choice?
what proof is there?

I prove to myself that Jesus is lord it doesnt matter if someone else think it is wrong

You have turned many against Christianity and against Jesus by your ramblings, you make Jesus appear as an evil tyrant, meting out punishment to the descendants of people just because their ancestors "did something wrong".

As you said, the devil is a trickster and works in sly ways, it's true, you appear to be doing the work of the devil by turning people away from Jesus.

Good work

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Why does this god given conscience not work the same in everyone?

it is the same but it is who and what we let influence it
I want Jesus to influence mine because he said that he is life and I want just that

but what makes you think you are right and they are wrong in their choice?
what proof is there?

I prove to myself that Jesus is lord it doesnt matter if someone else think it is wrong

it doesn't matter if other people think it's wrong? Isn't that selfish? What if Jesus said "I am God, but I don't care what other people think, so leave them in their ignorance" then what would happen? Aren't you supposed to be testifying and in your testimony proving what you are saying? Where is the proof?

1 billion people have proven to themselves that Vishnu is lord and 1.5 billion have proven to themselves that the Qu'ran is the word of God. They have proven to themselves that they are right, how is that?

[bluefete]

Why does this god given conscience not work the same in everyone?

it is the same but it is who and what we let influence it
I want Jesus to influence mine because he said that he is life and I want just that

but what makes you think you are right and they are wrong in their choice?
what proof is there?

I prove to myself that Jesus is lord it doesnt matter if someone else think it is wrong

it doesn't matter if other people think it's wrong? Isn't that selfish? What if Jesus said "I am God, but I don't care what other people think, so leave them in their ignorance" then what would happen? Aren't you supposed to be testifying and in your testimony proving what you are saying? Where is the proof?

1 billion people have proven to themselves that Vishnu is lord and 1.5 billion have proven to themselves that the Qu'ran is the word of God. They have proven to themselves that they are right, how is that?

And 2 billion have proven to themselves that Jesus is the son of God.

(~ sneaks back out to do circular logic ~)

[bluefete]

bluefete how do you PROVE something?

What methods do you use to PROVE?

The same methodology you want to use to disprove!
Scientifically speaking, of course.

ok lets get back to basic here so we on the same page.

What scientific methods can be used to prove or disprove something?

let us outline some methods here and then we can base our discussions on these methods.

in a logical and systematic way
agreed?

now go ahead.

What scientific methods are used to "prove" the theory of evolution? Can we apply these as well to the existence of God?

no theory of evolution is another topic.
God is the focus here.

Stop ducking...answer me.

What scientific methods can be used to prove or disprove God?

If scientists use the theory of evolution to disprove God's existence, why can't it be used to prove God's existence?

[megadoc1]

Why does this god given conscience not work the same in everyone?

it is the same but it is who and what we let influence it
I want Jesus to influence mine because he said that he is life and I want just that

but what makes you think you are right and they are wrong in their choice?
what proof is there?

I prove to myself that Jesus is lord it doesnt matter if someone else think it is wrong

it doesn't matter if other people think it's wrong?nope Isn't that selfish? never they have a conscience What if Jesus said "I am God, but I don't care what other people think, so leave them in their ignorance" then what would happen?he didnt, however he said preach the gospel
he who believe shall be saved he who does not believe is damned already Aren't you supposed to be testifying and in your testimony proving what you are saying?yes I did Where is the proof?
Jesus never tell me to prove he exists he leaves it up yo you to believe for your self

1 billion people have proven to themselves that Vishnu is lord and 1.5 billion have proven to themselves that the Qu'ran is the word of God. They have proven to themselves that they are right, how is that?because they are deceived however I have proven to myself that the other gods are false

[bluefete]

my perception of what is right and wrong is different to yours. i am speaking generally, i doh go around killing everybody.

God isnt concern with that! He is concerned with keeping his sacred ten commandment
did you break any?

Yea I broke most, and if you have ever looked at the New Testament you will see that Jesus put a new commandment to replace the others:

" A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another. {John 13:31-35 RSV}

I'm disappointed megadoc, even someone that doesn't believe in Christianity knows more about it than you.

Jesus did not change ANY of the 10 commandments. He did reinforce them though. And yes, he also gave a commandment about loving each other.

[d spike]

d spike make some sense nuh ... if I am a literalist like you claimed then
logicaly I cannot burn people at the stake because no where in scripture said so
so you are in error..thats ok doh beat up

(But I am making sense... just because you cannot see it, doesn't mean it's not there. A Christian's argument, I might add )
Being a literalist/fundamentalist refers to your RELIGIOUS beliefs, not your ACTIVITIES. While a truly religious person would let his choice of activities be guided by his religious nature, I never claimed to believe that you were a truly religious person - actually, I think that I have stressed a few times that you were not.
There are quite a few examples in scripture where people have been put to death in rather hideous fashion by the protagonists. There are countless examples of people being put to death in a variety of unpleasant ways throughout history by literalists/fundamentalists.

Your claiming to use logic needs to be more than typing the word 'logic' or one of its derivatives. You actually have to use it.

Thus, as I have shown, I am not in error (a position you often frequent). As far as beating you up is concerned, have no fear. Physical contact is out of the question, out of fear that whatever malaise you suffer from, which inhibits the ability to reason might be contagious.

Cheers

[megadoc1]

d spike make some sense nuh ... if I am a literalist like you claimed then
logicaly I cannot burn people at the stake because no where in scripture said so
so you are in error..thats ok doh beat up

(But I am making sense... just because you cannot see it, doesn't mean it's not there. A Christian's argument, I might add )
Being a literalist/fundamentalist refers to your RELIGIOUS beliefs, not your ACTIVITIES. While a truly religious person would let his choice of activities be guided by his religious nature, I never claimed to believe that you were a truly religious person - actually, I think that I have stressed a few times that you were not.
There are quite a few examples in scripture where people have been put to death in rather hideous fashion by the protagonists. There are countless examples of people being put to death in a variety of unpleasant ways throughout history by literalists/fundamentalists.

Your claiming to use logic needs to be more than typing the word 'logic' or one of its derivatives. You actually have to use it.

Thus, as I have shown, I am not in error (a position you often frequent). As far as beating you up is concerned, have no fear. Physical contact is out of the question, out of fear that whatever malaise you suffer from, which inhibits the ability to reason might be contagious.

Cheers

so then your statement about me burning people at the stake was just
null talk ? are you a guesser ?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

[

And 2 billion have proven to themselves that Jesus is the son of God.

(~ sneaks back out to do circular logic ~)

hahaha

there are ~6 billion people on earth so only 1/3 believe that
2000 years after

will it take another 4000 years to convince the other 4 billion?

[bluefete]

and megadoc , it does replace the others, i had discussions with a priest on quite a few occasions when i first began to question my faith.

That priest was on ... something.

Jesus NEVER replaced the 10 commandments with anything else.

Now I begin to understand why some priests are so messed up. That logic allows them to rationalize WRONG DOING.

Jesus did not come to change but to fulfill.

[megadoc1]

[

And 2 billion have proven to themselves that Jesus is the son of God.

(~ sneaks back out to do circular logic ~)

hahaha

there are ~6 billion people on earth so only 1/3 believe that
2000 years after

will it take another 4000 years to convince the other 4 billion?

well dais why we come on the innanet

[bluefete]

lol @ ashamed of my religion.

Yes I am ashamed at certain aspects of it, I don't follow the religion, I choose to live my life how I want and live what I deem to be a good righteous life.


You don't see me condemning others and saying "you going to hell if you don't do this and that, you need to do this and that to do a good person, bla bla bla"


Bluefete and megadoc1, I can 100% assure you, if there is a heaven, I will be chosen over you for a place


God gonna watch allyuh and say "ummm nah fellas...allyuh go down in hell and preach a lil bit na, we eh rly need allyuh in heaven yet, keep up the good work though, check meh in a 5 mins (5000 years)"

Wouldn't that be ironic if we all had it right? I look forward to meeting you "upstairs".

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

1 billion people have proven to themselves that Vishnu is lord and 1.5 billion have proven to themselves that the Qu'ran is the word of God. They have proven to themselves that they are right, how is that?

because they are deceived however I have proven to myself that the other gods are false

how do you know they are deceived?
Milk has flowed from deities and witnessed my many.
Hindu prayers and offerings have brought prosperity to millions

[16 cycles]

the value system religion teaches is probably the most significant part - the people who get caught up in mine > yours are usually the ones fueling the fires of intolerance... sometimes war....

i think even atheists who have a good value system - if there is a God, will find a place after judgment.... if no God....then they left the world a better place than it was before they came...hopefully all of us can...

[Chimera]

lol @ ashamed of my religion.

Yes I am ashamed at certain aspects of it, I don't follow the religion, I choose to live my life how I want and live what I deem to be a good righteous life.


You don't see me condemning others and saying "you going to hell if you don't do this and that, you need to do this and that to do a good person, bla bla bla"


Bluefete and megadoc1, I can 100% assure you, if there is a heaven, I will be chosen over you for a place


God gonna watch allyuh and say "ummm nah fellas...allyuh go down in hell and preach a lil bit na, we eh rly need allyuh in heaven yet, keep up the good work though, check meh in a 5 mins (5000 years)"

Wouldn't that be ironic if we all had it right? I look forward to meeting you "upstairs".

You not going upstairs papi, Jesus didn't want you to live your life condemning others to hell "in his name"

YOU going to be roasting over a slow fire in hell while I up there, kicking back with a cold beer and watching worldcup with Jesus and Ghandhi.