The Religion Discussion

[megadoc1]

you SHOULD believe me because it makes sense, why do you believe the Bible?
and obviously i don't know everything, i can only postulate.

what if you are wrong?

why should God punish me for creating sensible opinions if I am a good person? Surely if I am wrong, God will be level-headed enough to accept my logic because after all it is logic, and God created logic and He would forgive me, when He would be to blame for not making His existence explicitly clear.

so who are you ? why should God go against his word for you?how did you know he forgives? are you a good person?

I'm going with the Bible, the Bible says he is forgiving, so He should forgive me for being sensible, so it's either He is forgiving or He doesn't exist (as you imagine Him), and I am a good person, but that is irrelevant to the discussion.

no its not
have you ever told a lie ?
have you ever stolen something ?
have you ever called God's name in vain?
have you ever looked at a woman to lust after her (adultery)?

[zcarz]

my perception of what is right and wrong is different to yours. i am speaking generally, i doh go around killing everybody.

[megadoc1]

my perception of what is right and wrong is different to yours. i am speaking generally, i doh go around killing everybody.

God isnt concern with that! He is concerned with keeping his sacred ten commandment
did you break any?
have you ever told a lie ?
have you ever stolen something ?
have you ever called God's name in vain?
have you ever looked at a woman to lust after her (adultery)?
be honest

[zcarz]

my perception of what is right and wrong is different to yours. i am speaking generally, i doh go around killing everybody.

God isnt concern with that! He is concerned with keeping his sacred ten commandment
did you break any?

Yea I broke most, and if you have ever looked at the New Testament you will see that Jesus put a new commandment to replace the others:

" A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another. {John 13:31-35 RSV}

I'm disappointed megadoc, even someone that doesn't believe in Christianity knows more about it than you.

[megadoc1]

my perception of what is right and wrong is different to yours. i am speaking generally, i doh go around killing everybody.

God isnt concern with that! He is concerned with keeping his sacred ten commandment
did you break any?

Yea I broke most, and if you have ever looked at the New Testament you will see that Jesus put a new commandment to replace the others:

" A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another. {John 13:31-35 RSV}

I'm disappointed megadoc, even someone that doesn't believe in Christianity knows more about it than you.

take it easy that new commandment is for believers/followers of Christ and it doesn't replace any other

now you said you broke most of the ten commandments
God said the wages of sin is death so if you go before God today you will be judge guilty and because God is a righteous God you will recieve
just punishment because God is just
doesn't this concern you?

[zcarz]

my perception of what is right and wrong is different to yours. i am speaking generally, i doh go around killing everybody.

God isnt concern with that! He is concerned with keeping his sacred ten commandment
did you break any?

Yea I broke most, and if you have ever looked at the New Testament you will see that Jesus put a new commandment to replace the others:

" A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another. {John 13:31-35 RSV}

I'm disappointed megadoc, even someone that doesn't believe in Christianity knows more about it than you.

take it easy that new commandment is for believers/followers of Christ

now you said you broke most of the ten commandments
God said the wages of sin is death so if you go before God today you will be judge guilty and because God is a righteous God you will recieve
just punishment because God is just
doesn't this concern you?

how you know that, because it convenient?

and for the second part.. i know you have told at least one lie in your life (and who knows probably told even more than me, probably stole even more than me) i probably have less 'sin' than you, if this were true (i'm not saying it is) then why should God pick you over me just because you followed him, that's ass-kissing not justice.

[zcarz]

and megadoc , it does replace the others, i had discussions with a priest on quite a few occasions when i first began to question my faith.

[megadoc1]

my perception of what is right and wrong is different to yours. i am speaking generally, i doh go around killing everybody.

God isnt concern with that! He is concerned with keeping his sacred ten commandment
did you break any?

Yea I broke most, and if you have ever looked at the New Testament you will see that Jesus put a new commandment to replace the others:

" A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another. {John 13:31-35 RSV}

I'm disappointed megadoc, even someone that doesn't believe in Christianity knows more about it than you.

take it easy that new commandment is for believers/followers of Christ

now you said you broke most of the ten commandments
God said the wages of sin is death so if you go before God today you will be judge guilty and because God is a righteous God you will recieve
just punishment because God is just
doesn't this concern you?

how you know that, because it convenient?


and for the second part.. i know you have told at least one lie in your life (and who knows probably told even more than me, probably stole even more than me)yes its true I have done a lot of those i probably have less 'sin' than you, possible if this were true (i'm not saying it is) then why should God pick you over me just because you followed him, no because I repentedthat's ass-kissing not justice.

and megadoc , it does replace the others, i had discussions with a priest on quite a few occasions when i first began to question my faith.

you were told a lie
again
now you said you broke most of the ten commandments
God said the wages of sin is death so if you go before God today you will be judge guilty and because God is a righteous God you will recieve
just punishment because God is just
this don't concern you?

[zcarz]

surely you're not implying that u kno more than a priest, and repenting.. how i love that word.. because a priest can magically absolve you of your sins like if you never did it in the first place... how convenient yet primitive.

megadoc1 wrote: doesn't this concern you?
NO!

[megadoc1]

surely you're not implying that u kno more than a priest, and repenting.. how i love that word.. because a priest can magically absolve you of your sins like if you never did it in the first place... how convenient yet primitive.
I am a "priest"

megadoc1 wrote: doesn't this concern you?
NO!so why then should you recieve forgiveness if you don't care about transgressing God's sacred laws?

according to Gods law if you break them you are cursed and condemned
you dont care?

[zcarz]

surely you're not implying that u kno more than a priest, and repenting.. how i love that word.. because a priest can magically absolve you of your sins like if you never did it in the first place... how convenient yet primitive.
I am a priest

megadoc1 wrote: doesn't this concern you?
NO!so why then should you recieve forgiveness if you don't care about transgressing God's sacred laws?

according to Gods law if you break them you are cursed and condemned
you dont care?

Are you a priest who preaches to congregations?
And no I don't care because you are wrong, logically.

[megadoc1]

surely you're not implying that u kno more than a priest, and repenting.. how i love that word.. because a priest can magically absolve you of your sins like if you never did it in the first place... how convenient yet primitive.
I am a priest

megadoc1 wrote: doesn't this concern you?
NO!so why then should you recieve forgiveness if you don't care about transgressing God's sacred laws?

according to Gods law if you break them you are cursed and condemned
you dont care?

Are you a priest who preaches to congregations?maybe?
And no I don't care because you are wrong, logically.so why should God forgive you?

[Chimera]

Come one come all, be judged before the great megadoc1

[Chimera]

lol @ ashamed of my religion.

Yes I am ashamed at certain aspects of it, I don't follow the religion, I choose to live my life how I want and live what I deem to be a good righteous life.


You don't see me condemning others and saying "you going to hell if you don't do this and that, you need to do this and that to do a good person, bla bla bla"


Bluefete and megadoc1, I can 100% assure you, if there is a heaven, I will be chosen over you for a place


God gonna watch allyuh and say "ummm nah fellas...allyuh go down in hell and preach a lil bit na, we eh rly need allyuh in heaven yet, keep up the good work though, check meh in a 5 mins (5000 years)"

[illumin@ti]

Come one come all, be judged before the great megadoc1

since page - whenever Megaduck done prove that the only thing he is, is thirsty, and mad. STARK RAVING MAD.

How now could he want us (collectively speaking) to prove that there is no god when he has offered no proof of his own claims.\

MEGADUCK... seriously

SHOW US these people you have healed and let them be medically examined and adjudged to have been 'healed'

Explain to us your supernatural powers. lol

Man i eh even goin thru all dat pappy show with you, when i know you cant.
not a thing is wrong with having a belief, nothing is wrong with having a differing belief to another man. What's wrong is when now-come christians like yourself fvck things up for everyone with your hypocrisy and intolerance for anything and everything else thats not what you subscribe to. This thread wasnt even geared to go where it went, however it exposed the ridiculous and foolish nature of man yes. Are you so hungry for something to rationalize your pathetic existence that yuh have to turn to such idealistic beliefs? you sound no better than a muslim jihadist. You wear a chip on your shoulder and spit fire at everyone else because fortunate you got saved and the rest of us are screwed. Thats a sick disposition. its one thats not going to garner the respect or affection of anyone around you, except of course if they are as blunt and sickening as yourself. Now to hear that 'maybe' you're a pastor/ preacher /obeaman /stamina man now?? For fvck sake?!! really?
Perhaps you haven't read much about man's history, but for the most part its the pig headed idealists that are mostly to blame for a lot of man's hardships.... is them who responsible fuh de genocides,, war ,, conflict etc etc etc... thats a fact...
yuh know what else is fact ??

Millions have died at the hands of 'righteous christians' over the years, much more than i dare say any other faith.... what an irony...

when ur ready to get back down in the trenches,, back in reality .. check me.. i could show yuh a heap a wickedness man does to and causes for other men that has nothing to do with god, his presence, his absence or his antagonist.

<insert green writing and bible quotes here>
<insert because jesus christ say so>
<insert 4-5 >

[Kasey]

^^wat he said

[d spike]

It is amazing the amount of abuse Mega & I have put up with just by having a discussion about God.

What is amazing to me is that you are so desperate for allies, that you will link yourself with any half-baked ranter who "seems" to think along parallel lines as you, without at first questioning them to see if this is really so. (your young misguided Paduwan, for example, who thinks of religion/spirituality as a comic-book affair: 'this is just a cosmic war, and God has to "use" man to fight Satan...')
When it comes to 'putting up with an amazing amount of abuse', let me inform you that megadoc did his best to sorely try me in another thread, with insulting, accusing, condemning, rebuking and damning me, repeatedly and insistently... simply because he could not respond to my arguments then. Now he has acquired a new tone, authoritarian and condescending, telling people to shut up and relying on 'beatnik' philosophy to engineer questions that you are too blind to realise how daft they are.

View first the question he poses: Prove God doesn't exist.
With the twit quite happily confusing knowledge with faith, knowing with believing, he doesn't realise that 'science' has to do with "what can be proven to be", while faith concerns "what CANNOT be proven to be".
Telling him that he DOESN'T KNOW he is going to heaven, but he only BELIEVES this, will immediately cause him to take offense, for to him this is an affront to his faith, making it seem less than the swollen, engorged mass he thinks it is.
With this awareness in mind, realise then that one cannot "disprove" (or prove, for that matter) the existence of God. So tell that preening chicken to get off that shaky roost... and stop being silly. It's pseudo-intellectual crap like that, that makes any discussion useless. Imagine, he asked if "science could prove sin exists" in a much earlier post.
I didn't care for his attitude of ignoring truth, coupled with spouting nonsense disguised as Christianity... but I like the new attitude that he displays in this thread even less.

[megadoc1]

d spike doh take it orn where were you when duane was trying to mix knowledge with believing ?
and where did I ask if "science could prove sin exists" do you just make up these thinks to sound good?
and how come its cool for other to ask to prove God exist
but when I ask them to prove God doesnt exist you start crying like a little girl?

[d spike]

...and as I'm on the topic of spouting nonsense...
What is all this twaddle about not belonging to a religion? Have you lost whatever grains of sense you had? Megadoc has also claimed before, but that was just in keeping with his character of braying while not really knowing what he's talking about.
I know where you boys are coming from... in order to evade/avoid queries and jibes about the "bad" aspects of Christianity - Crusades, Inquisitions, Schisms, poorly chosen leaders, odd/strange dogma and doctrine and customs - you claim to be "christian" but "not belonging to any religion". Well, lad, this falls into the same heap as megadoc's question - which I explained previously.

When one studies history, it's easy to see the grave injustices meted out in the name of religion. What the unthinking man doesn't realise, is that people use what tools they have access to, to do the job they want done. If one wishes to rule/conquer, seeming to want to share a religion justifies this, as it must be "right", "God wills it", and so on. If a man stabs another with a knife, does that make the knife evil? Cars aren't wicked, but many folks die due to their use.

You believe that Christ left concepts for man to believe in and follow, but somebody had to teach others what those concepts are... somebody had to say what NOT to do... in short, people had to get involved to keep this belief system alive, and run operations... and when humans get involved in running things, human things happen - after all, they're only human.

Religion, in the true sense of the word, is the relationship man has with his God. We each have religion - genius and ignoramus alike. Religion is also used (in the social sense) to refer to the group that shares their relationship with God. They all share in the same concepts, culture, and style of worship.

So for you to say, "I'm a christian, but I don't belong to any religion." is just a big cop-out - only the latter half of that statement is true. For you to be a "christian", you have to "agape", or whatever you call whatever form of fellowship, somewhere - a follower of Christ, eh? Christ asked his followers to worship together - humans are social animals. Let me guess, you "worship" in a community, but you don't "belong" to that "community". Another grandiose cop-out. Or you worship in a "community" of fellow "drop-outs". That's a group! You share a... religion! Doh!
Whether you like it or not, religion helped play a major role in forming your knowledge, beliefs, and thinking. The very scriptures you read, where did that come from? Who decided what books should and shouldn't be in that great big ring-binder you think of as the bible? So religion was good enough to teach you what concepts you use, what scripture you read... but not good enough to follow...

"Be thee either cold or hot... for if thou art lukewarm, I will vomit thee from my mouth..."

[Kasey]

^^ oh no spike, now u went and made it mad.

[megadoc1]

...and as I'm on the topic of spouting nonsense...
What is all this twaddle about not belonging to a religion? Have you lost whatever grains of sense you had? Megadoc has also claimed before, but that was just in keeping with his character of braying while not really knowing what he's talking about.
I know where you boys are coming from... in order to evade/avoid queries and jibes about the "bad" aspects of Christianity - Crusades, Inquisitions, Schisms, poorly chosen leaders, odd/strange dogma and doctrine and customs - you claim to be "christian" but "not belonging to any religion". Well, lad, this falls into the same heap as megadoc's question - which I explained previously.

When one studies history, it's easy to see the grave injustices meted out in the name of religion. What the unthinking man doesn't realise, is that people use what tools they have access to, to do the job they want done. If one wishes to rule/conquer, seeming to want to share a religion justifies this, as it must be "right", "God wills it", and so on. If a man stabs another with a knife, does that make the knife evil? Cars aren't wicked, but many folks die due to their use.

You believe that Christ left concepts for man to believe in and follow, but somebody had to teach others what those concepts are... somebody had to say what NOT to do... in short, people had to get involved to keep this belief system alive, and run operations... and when humans get involved in running things, human things happen - after all, they're only human.

Religion, in the true sense of the word, is the relationship man has with his God. We each have religion - genius and ignoramus alike. Religion is also used (in the social sense) to refer to the group that shares their relationship with God. They all share in the same concepts, culture, and style of worship.

So for you to say, "I'm a christian, but I don't belong to any religion." is just a big cop-out - only the latter half of that statement is true. For you to be a "christian", you have to "agape", or whatever you call whatever form of fellowship, somewhere - a follower of Christ, eh? Christ asked his followers to worship together - humans are social animals. Let me guess, you "worship" in a community, but you don't "belong" to that "community". Another grandiose cop-out. Or you worship in a "community" of fellow "drop-outs". That's a group! You share a... religion! Doh!
Whether you like it or not, religion helped play a major role in forming your knowledge, beliefs, and thinking. The very scriptures you read, where did that come from? Who decided what books should and shouldn't be in that great big ring-binder you think of as the bible? So religion was good enough to teach you what concepts you use, what scripture you read... but not good enough to follow...

"Be thee either cold or hot... for if thou art lukewarm, I will vomit thee from my mouth..."

ok but you aint answer where did I ask if science can prove sin exist ? why do you need to be lying?

[d spike]

d spike doh take it orn

Damned right about this.

When (hopefully, and not if) you wake up one day and decide to be rationale...
when you can truly ask yourself, "What if there are things about my belief that I misunderstand, or not I'm sure about, perhaps someone who knows these things far better than I do can help me"...
when you learn to better appreciate the language that you speak...
when you learn to better the way/style you communicate with others...
When you learn humility, and the dangers of Presumption...

Then check me. Until then, go back and play in your sandbox.

And... no. I am not going to sift through 100+ pages, looking for some irrational nonsense you spouted, simply because you want to deny something you probably said.(Isn't it just like you to focus on some little matter, in order to avoid dealing with what was said? Besides, it won't be the first time you deny something that you said a few pages before your denial - but I am not wasting my time.) My time is too precious, you are too insignificant, and whatever you have to say is quite likely immaterial.
(By the way, that is how to be condescending . Now, back to your sandbox.)

[megadoc1]

And... no. I am not going to sift through 100+ pages,no need to I only speak concerning science a few pages aback looking for some irrational nonsense you spouted,but you came up with it as a problem why not show that it is realy there? simply because you want to deny something you probably said.(Isn't it just like you to focus on some little matter, in order to avoid dealing with what was said?no if you can tell lies on the little matters what would you do with the weightier ones.. oh wait you are doing it already Besides, it won't be the first time you deny something that you said a few pages before your denial - but I am not wasting my time.)c'mon prove your self to be true My time is too precious,yea right we seeing that you are too insignificant,then why bother? and whatever you have to say is quite likely immaterial.but but but it bothers you my dear
(By the way, that is how to be condescending . Now, back to your sandbox.)

yeah yuh know just admit that you were in error like here

Some time ago, Megadoc naively attempted to define a fundamentalist christian as one who believes in the fundamental teachings of Christ. He obviously thought that viewers of that post were even less well-read than he was, and as his definition sounds simple and self-explanatory, folks would believe it to be so. He very well knows what it means and refers to: literal application and strict adherence to scripture. Thanks to 9/11, even the most illiterate among us knows the meaning of "fundamentalist".

I trust that those with eyes can see... if megadoc was in a position to do something about it, and our laws were not in place...
Many of us would be burnt at the stake...

("Gimme dat ol' time religion...")

d spike where according to scripture am I to do so?

53And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.
54And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
55But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
56For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.

[d spike]

could be, but through science we haven't yet found out how to rid ourselves of sin,

(I never claimed to have quoted you verbatim, and I know that is what you will gripe about . Speaking of sin as though it were a scientific concept, or applicable within the realm of science... tch, tch, tch.)
Now, sandbox time...

[megadoc1]

could be, but through science we haven't yet found out how to rid ourselves of sin,

(I never claimed to have quoted you verbatim, and I know that is what you will gripe about . Speaking of sin as though it were a scientific concept, or applicable within the realm of science... tch, tch, tch.)
Now, sandbox time...

but this is a fact man have not discovered how to rid himself of sin...but where did I ask "if science can prove sin exist "?
did you make a mistake? where you in error?

and no I was not speaking of sin as a scientific concept
I said with all man's gathered knowledge (science)
we are yet to rid our self of sin and that is important when we go be fore God
that was for some one who was trying to mix "knowing with believing"
but you dont see that?

[d spike]

yeah yuh know just admit that you were in error like here

Some time ago, Megadoc naively attempted to define a fundamentalist christian as one who believes in the fundamental teachings of Christ. He obviously thought that viewers of that post were even less well-read than he was, and as his definition sounds simple and self-explanatory, folks would believe it to be so. He very well knows what it means and refers to: literal application and strict adherence to scripture. Thanks to 9/11, even the most illiterate among us knows the meaning of "fundamentalist".

Not my fault you refuse to use a dictionary. Are you claiming to not making such a definition? You can't remember what you yourself wrote? (Oh yes, I forgot this is megadoc we're dealing with.)

I trust that those with eyes can see... if megadoc was in a position to do something about it, and our laws were not in place...
Many of us would be burnt at the stake...
("Gimme dat ol' time religion...")

d spike where according to scripture am I to do so?

[/quote]
I have no idea what scripture has to do with your ATTITUDE...
but I think that is the problem plaguing everyone else here.

[d spike]

could be, but through science we haven't yet found out how to rid ourselves of sin,

(I never claimed to have quoted you verbatim, and I know that is what you will gripe about :lol: . Speaking of sin as though it were a scientific concept, or applicable within the realm of science... tch, tch, tch.)
Now, sandbox time...

but this is a fact man have not discovered how to rid himself of sin...but where did I ask "if science can prove sin exist "?
did you make a mistake? where you in error?
No, little one. That's what I meant by not claiming to have quoted you verbatim. Learn to use the dictionary.

and no I was not speaking of sin as a scientific concept
I said with all man's gathered knowledge (science)
we are yet to rid our self of sin
Really??? So why did you say... (and now I quote you verbatim - you looked it up, I trust)
"but through science we haven't yet found out how to rid ourselves of sin"

If you cannot be bothered to learn to use the English language properly, then please... don't!

[megadoc1]

oh poor d spike you problem is you came in thread about God to
lie
bear false witness
preach false hood
and mock
don't hurt your ego

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ LOL

still having problems proving what you believe in so you are claiming 'this is we thread'?

if you worship Christ then you are a Christian. Christianity is a RELIGION and you are part of it. There is no way to cop-out of that.

sin is a human concept, conceived by man's own conscience.
Look up "Super Ego".

[megadoc1]

^ LOL

still having problems proving what you believe in so you are claiming 'this is we thread'?
no

sin is a human concept, conceived by man's own conscience.
Look up "Super Ego".

exactly and God gave us a conscience so when we go before him we will have no excuse