What's going on in the Middle East?

[Dizzy28]

The UN's published data shows that the actual number of deaths identified as women and children in Gaza dropped from greater than 24,000 to less than 13,000. 40% of all deaths were identified as men.



https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostili ... ct-day-215
https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostili ... ct-day-213

I feel as if this being the only post on this issue is a disservice to the Palestinians
The UN has started using the Gaza Ministry of Health (GMOH) figures and not the Gaza Government Media Office (GMO). The GMO has inflated figures but was used as the source of data by the West for some reason.

Prime example of the weakness of the GMO
On Dec. 11, GMO reported the death of 8,000 children and 6,200 women out of 18,396 total fatalities. This would mean that there were (18,396-8,000-6,200=) 4,196 men. But GMoH reported at the time that hospitals had registered 5,577 male fatalities. To make GMO's numbers plausible, you'd have to convert 1,381 of GMoH's bodies from male to female, or adult male to child. The GMO was not even trying to reconcile its numbers with GMoH.
Analysis of that data below.
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/med ... ion=inline

[Dizzy28]

Happy Independence Day to the only democracy in the Middle East

[ed360123]

The UN's published data shows that the actual number of deaths identified as women and children in Gaza dropped from greater than 24,000 to less than 13,000. 40% of all deaths were identified as men.



https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostili ... ct-day-215
https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostili ... ct-day-213

This is because they changed from "reported" to "identified" deaths. This thread from a researcher has good info
https://twitter.com/talhagin/status/1789701189887520929

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

The UN's published data shows that the actual number of deaths identified as women and children in Gaza dropped from greater than 24,000 to less than 13,000. 40% of all deaths were identified as men.



https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostili ... ct-day-215
https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostili ... ct-day-213

I feel as if this being the only post on this issue is a disservice to the Palestinians
The UN has started using the Gaza Ministry of Health (GMOH) figures and not the Gaza Government Media Office (GMO). The GMO has inflated figures but was used as the source of data by the West for some reason.

Prime example of the weakness of the GMO
On Dec. 11, GMO reported the death of 8,000 children and 6,200 women out of 18,396 total fatalities. This would mean that there were (18,396-8,000-6,200=) 4,196 men. But GMoH reported at the time that hospitals had registered 5,577 male fatalities. To make GMO's numbers plausible, you'd have to convert 1,381 of GMoH's bodies from male to female, or adult male to child. The GMO was not even trying to reconcile its numbers with GMoH.
Analysis of that data below.
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/med ... ion=inline

A report from a pro-Isreali organisation saying that the killing is justified because "civilian harm is inevitable in urban battles " and "The humanitarian cost in the current war has caused justifiable dismay".

even with the GMOH calculation, the killing is greatly disproportionate.

[Dizzy28]

^ Can you name other wars with a better (worse) civilian to combatant ratio so that we can compare that the killings are disproportionate?

Also you literally cite Al Jazeera all the time. Owned by the financiers of the Muslim Brotherhood and the ppl that harbour Hamas's leadership.

[adnj]

This is because they changed from "reported" to "identified" deaths. This thread from a researcher has good info

What is obviously wasted upon you is the associated change in the proportion of woman and child casualties. The proportion of casualties identified as women and children has decreased from >75% (reported) to <60%.

Additionally, Isreali responses to Palestinian aggression has typically resulted in a >20:1 casualty ratio. 30,000 to 40,000 Palestinian casualties was to be expected in this latest iteration of Holy Land conflicts.

[ed360123]

This is because they changed from "reported" to "identified" deaths. This thread from a researcher has good info

What is obviously wasted upon you is the associated change in the proportion of woman and child casualties. The proportion of casualties identified as women and children has decreased from >75% (reported) to <60%.

Additionally, Isreali responses to Palestinian aggression has typically resulted in a >20:1 casualty ratio. 30,000 to 40,000 Palestinian casualties was to be expected in this latest iteration of Holy Land conflicts.

Did you read the thread I linked?

[mero]

Cringe thread

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ Can you name other wars with a better (worse) civilian to combatant ratio so that we can compare that the killings are disproportionate?

If every war was as disproportionate would that make it right?

Also you literally cite Al Jazeera all the time. Owned by the financiers of the Muslim Brotherhood and the ppl that harbour Hamas's leadership.

Yes and was told their coverage is biased so I stopped. I'm reciprocating.

[Dizzy28]

^ Can you name other wars with a better (worse) civilian to combatant ratio so that we can compare that the killings are disproportionate?

If every war was as disproportionate would that make it right?

Also you literally cite Al Jazeera all the time. Owned by the financiers of the Muslim Brotherhood and the ppl that harbour Hamas's leadership.

Yes and was told their coverage is biased so I stopped. I'm reciprocating.

You said its disproportionate, You need to say in comparison to what
This is like the genocide claims all over again. Because you feel something/have vibes doesn't make it truthful.

The UN and the Centre for Civilians In Conflict have both stated that in war/urban war 90% of casualities are civilians. Based on the Israeli figures of militants killed and the Hamas MOH (upper limit figures) the war in Gaza is below this. Ergo they are taking measures to reduce civilian casualities.
https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm
https://civiliansinconflict.org/our-wor ... n-warfare/

This is why avoidance of war is better than having war.

Kudos on the Al Jazera thing btw!

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ Can you name other wars with a better (worse) civilian to combatant ratio so that we can compare that the killings are disproportionate?

If every war was as disproportionate would that make it right?

Also you literally cite Al Jazeera all the time. Owned by the financiers of the Muslim Brotherhood and the ppl that harbour Hamas's leadership.

Yes and was told their coverage is biased so I stopped. I'm reciprocating.

You said its disproportionate, You need to say in comparison to what
This is like the genocide claims all over again. Because you feel something/have vibes doesn't make it truthful.

I was comparing the Hamas vs the Israeli attacks

The UN and the Centre for Civilians In Conflict have both stated that in war/urban war 90% of casualities are civilians. Based on the Israeli figures of militants killed and the Hamas MOH (upper limit figures) the war in Gaza is below this. "Ergo they are taking measures to reduce civilian casualties. "
https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm
https://civiliansinconflict.org/our-wor ... n-warfare/

It does not appear that way

While the video is from Middle East Eye - which you may say is also biased - it doesn't discount what was said and is being done.

This is why avoidance of war is better than having war.

I agree fully. Israel seems to think otherwise

"Hamas said Monday it has agreed to a cease-fire proposal negotiated by Egyptian and Qatari officials that allows for the release of hostages held in Gaza in favor of a cessation of hostilities and withdrawal of Israeli forces across three phases, a deal which Israel said failed to meet its key demands as it vowed to continue its military operation in the enclave."

"Israel and Hamas have been in cease-fire talks for months, though those discussions have repeatedly stalled. Hamas has previously said it will not accept a cease-fire agreement that doesn’t call for a permanent end to the war, something Netanyahu has said he would not agree to."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mollybohan ... 33703604ee

Kudos on the Al Jazera thing btw!

Thanks - I am trying to only cite facts and unbiased sources - hope you do too

[Dizzy28]

^ Can you name other wars with a better (worse) civilian to combatant ratio so that we can compare that the killings are disproportionate?

If every war was as disproportionate would that make it right?

Also you literally cite Al Jazeera all the time. Owned by the financiers of the Muslim Brotherhood and the ppl that harbour Hamas's leadership.

Yes and was told their coverage is biased so I stopped. I'm reciprocating.

You said its disproportionate, You need to say in comparison to what
This is like the genocide claims all over again. Because you feel something/have vibes doesn't make it truthful.

I was comparing the Hamas vs the Israeli attacks

This is not how war works
Pearl Harbour cost the US 2,403 men
The subsequent Pacific Theatre of WW2 which was predominantly fought between Japan and the US saw the US lose 108k men while the Japanese lost 800k soldiers and 2m civilians.

[Dizzy28]

"Hamas said Monday it has agreed to a cease-fire proposal negotiated by Egyptian and Qatari officials that allows for the release of hostages held in Gaza in favor of a cessation of hostilities and withdrawal of Israeli forces across three phases, a deal which Israel said failed to meet its key demands as it vowed to continue its military operation in the enclave."

"Israel and Hamas have been in cease-fire talks for months, though those discussions have repeatedly stalled. Hamas has previously said it will not accept a cease-fire agreement that doesn’t call for a permanent end to the war, something Netanyahu has said he would not agree to."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mollybohan ... 33703604ee

Israel claims Hamas changed the terms of that ceasefire offer with most significanlty, hostages being changed to bodies
The vast majority of sources saying as such are all going to be Israeli news outlets
But since the day of the ceasefire itself I saw senior Israelis say changing hostages to bodies was unacceptable and not the original offer.
https://nypost.com/2024/05/06/world-new ... es-report/

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ Can you name other wars with a better (worse) civilian to combatant ratio so that we can compare that the killings are disproportionate?

If every war was as disproportionate would that make it right?

Also you literally cite Al Jazeera all the time. Owned by the financiers of the Muslim Brotherhood and the ppl that harbour Hamas's leadership.

Yes and was told their coverage is biased so I stopped. I'm reciprocating.

You said its disproportionate, You need to say in comparison to what
This is like the genocide claims all over again. Because you feel something/have vibes doesn't make it truthful.

I was comparing the Hamas vs the Israeli attacks

This is not how war works
Pearl Harbour cost the US 2,403 men
The subsequent Pacific Theatre of WW2 which was predominantly fought between Japan and the US saw the US lose 108k men while the Japanese lost 800k soldiers and 2m civilians.

Again that does not make it right.
The IDF cannot claim to being the most moral army in the world and then default to "well the other guys did it too"

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

"Hamas said Monday it has agreed to a cease-fire proposal negotiated by Egyptian and Qatari officials that allows for the release of hostages held in Gaza in favor of a cessation of hostilities and withdrawal of Israeli forces across three phases, a deal which Israel said failed to meet its key demands as it vowed to continue its military operation in the enclave."

"Israel and Hamas have been in cease-fire talks for months, though those discussions have repeatedly stalled. Hamas has previously said it will not accept a cease-fire agreement that doesn’t call for a permanent end to the war, something Netanyahu has said he would not agree to."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mollybohan ... 33703604ee

Israel claims Hamas changed the terms of that ceasefire offer with most significanlty, hostages being changed to bodies
The vast majority of sources saying as such are all going to be Israeli news outlets
But since the day of the ceasefire itself I saw senior Israelis say changing hostages to bodies was unacceptable and not the original offer.
https://nypost.com/2024/05/06/world-new ... es-report/
Capture.JPG

from the same article

[matr1x]

The UN's published data shows that the actual number of deaths identified as women and children in Gaza dropped from greater than 24,000 to less than 13,000. 40% of all deaths were identified as men.



https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostili ... ct-day-215
https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostili ... ct-day-213

I feel as if this being the only post on this issue is a disservice to the Palestinians
The UN has started using the Gaza Ministry of Health (GMOH) figures and not the Gaza Government Media Office (GMO). The GMO has inflated figures but was used as the source of data by the West for some reason.

Prime example of the weakness of the GMO
On Dec. 11, GMO reported the death of 8,000 children and 6,200 women out of 18,396 total fatalities. This would mean that there were (18,396-8,000-6,200=) 4,196 men. But GMoH reported at the time that hospitals had registered 5,577 male fatalities. To make GMO's numbers plausible, you'd have to convert 1,381 of GMoH's bodies from male to female, or adult male to child. The GMO was not even trying to reconcile its numbers with GMoH.
Analysis of that data below.
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/med ... ion=inline

A report from a pro-Isreali organisation saying that the killing is justified because "civilian harm is inevitable in urban battles " and "The humanitarian cost in the current war has caused justifiable dismay".

even with the GMOH calculation, the killing is greatly disproportionate.

Disproportionate to whom?

[Dizzy28]

^ Well I guess dependent on what news you want to go with you will hold a diferent view. Both our articles cited are dated May 6th however the details differ significantly.

The Forbes article never mentions the changing of hostages to hostages or bodies.

[Bad Dog]

"Hamas said Monday it has agreed to a cease-fire proposal negotiated by Egyptian and Qatari officials that allows for the release of hostages held in Gaza in favor of a cessation of hostilities and withdrawal of Israeli forces across three phases, a deal which Israel said failed to meet its key demands as it vowed to continue its military operation in the enclave."

"Israel and Hamas have been in cease-fire talks for months, though those discussions have repeatedly stalled. Hamas has previously said it will not accept a cease-fire agreement that doesn’t call for a permanent end to the war, something Netanyahu has said he would not agree to."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mollybohan ... 33703604ee

Israel claims Hamas changed the terms of that ceasefire offer with most significanlty, hostages being changed to bodies
The vast majority of sources saying as such are all going to be Israeli news outlets
But since the day of the ceasefire itself I saw senior Israelis say changing hostages to bodies was unacceptable and not the original offer.

https://nypost.com/2024/05/06/world-new ... es-report/
Capture.JPG

from the same article
9a5d0be5-be04-4d8d-948f-7a768466edbb.jpg

It's called "Selective Reading" and quoting what suits his agenda because the Palestinians are bad people and the Zionists are the good (chosen) people.

[Dizzy28]

"Hamas said Monday it has agreed to a cease-fire proposal negotiated by Egyptian and Qatari officials that allows for the release of hostages held in Gaza in favor of a cessation of hostilities and withdrawal of Israeli forces across three phases, a deal which Israel said failed to meet its key demands as it vowed to continue its military operation in the enclave."

"Israel and Hamas have been in cease-fire talks for months, though those discussions have repeatedly stalled. Hamas has previously said it will not accept a cease-fire agreement that doesn’t call for a permanent end to the war, something Netanyahu has said he would not agree to."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mollybohan ... 33703604ee

Israel claims Hamas changed the terms of that ceasefire offer with most significanlty, hostages being changed to bodies
The vast majority of sources saying as such are all going to be Israeli news outlets
But since the day of the ceasefire itself I saw senior Israelis say changing hostages to bodies was unacceptable and not the original offer.

https://nypost.com/2024/05/06/world-new ... es-report/
Capture.JPG

from the same article
9a5d0be5-be04-4d8d-948f-7a768466edbb.jpg

It's called "Selective Reading" and quoting what suits his agenda because the Palestinians are bad people and the Zionists are the good (chosen) people.

You haven't read either article have you Chet?
They are significantly different. I guess howver since you are a Jew Hater you would have also engaged in "selective reading"

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ Well I guess dependent on what news you want to go with you will hold a diferent view. Both our articles cited are dated May 6th however the details differ significantly.

The Forbes article never mentions the changing of hostages to hostages or bodies.

Yes the narratives vary depending on the news outlet.
Some also say "died" when referring to Palestinians but say "slaughtered" when referring to Israelis

[sMASH]

https://youtu.be/BTmXEl__Vu4?si=cMO4pNfesi4ysq5U

CNN disclosed stories of captives being tortured to death.

[sMASH]

Aid to gaza destroyed by Isreali civilians while Israeli authorities look on.



They don't care to even lie any more.

[ed360123]

Here's the Deputy Spokesperson for the UN Secretary General refuting the claims.
Linking Twitter because I can't upload video here.

https://twitter.com/marcowenjones/status/1790086787764715922

[matr1x]

Aid to gaza destroyed by Isreali civilians while Israeli authorities look on.



They don't care to even lie any more.

Imagine ppl sending aid to ppl who tape and kill your kid. You would destroy the aid too.



If the aid was even really destroyed

[ed360123]

Aid to gaza destroyed by Isreali civilians while Israeli authorities look on.



They don't care to even lie any more.

Imagine ppl sending aid to ppl who tape and kill your kid. You would destroy the aid too.



If the aid was even really destroyed

What you mean "if" the aid was destroyed? The destruction is on camera.

[matr1x]

All I seeing there is 2 talking heads. No proof.




Again, Palestinians have the option to leave.

[ed360123]

All I seeing there is 2 talking heads. No proof.




Again, Palestinians have the option to leave.

Here's the video of the Aid being destroyed:
https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1790015282490101762

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

"They highlight US and Israeli statements characterising potential actions by the ICC prosecutor as “lawless” and “disgraceful”, and saying that any arrest warrants issued by the court would be “an outrageous assault” and “an abomination”.

US media have reported that senior politicians are preparing possible retaliatory action, including sanctions on individuals who work for the court and efforts to de-fund the ICC, should arrest warrants be issued against Israeli officials, while the Israeli finance minister has threatened to withhold funds from the Palestinian Authority."
https://www.irishlegal.com/articles/us- ... inal-court

[sMASH]

Aid to gaza destroyed by Isreali civilians while Israeli authorities look on.



They don't care to even lie any more.

Imagine ppl sending aid to ppl who tape and kill your kid. You would destroy the aid too.



If the aid was even really destroyed

And calorie rationing...

[sMASH]

A more palatable explaining of the old hamas charter that is conveniently reposted...