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Do you support Gay Marriage in Trinidad & Tobago?

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Do you support Gay Marriage in Trinidad & Tobago?

Yes
82
27%
No
220
73%
 
Total votes: 302

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Habit7
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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage in Trinidad & Tobago?

Postby Habit7 » June 1st, 2012, 11:50 am

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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage in Trinidad & Tobago?

Postby TRAE » June 1st, 2012, 12:12 pm

lantern does move gay...sheit

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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage in Trinidad & Tobago?

Postby 1UZFE » June 1st, 2012, 12:18 pm

who cares about lantern.. Batman is the bawce.....

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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage in Trinidad & Tobago?

Postby Les Bain » June 1st, 2012, 12:54 pm

Nah boy. I woulda never in a million years believe a buff cutiepie who does wear a form fitting bodysuit and matching eyemask to fight crime woulda be a buttstalker.

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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage in Trinidad & Tobago?

Postby Greypatch » June 1st, 2012, 1:11 pm

14 pages for a topic that has no effect on the price ah bodi...

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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage in Trinidad & Tobago?

Postby rodfarva » June 1st, 2012, 1:13 pm

1UZFE wrote:who cares about lantern.. Batman is the bawce.....

batman is a closet case

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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage in Trinidad & Tobago?

Postby dougla_boy » June 1st, 2012, 1:37 pm

Greypatch wrote:14 pages for a topic that has no effect on the price ah bodi...




did someone say bodi?


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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage in Trinidad & Tobago?

Postby 1UZFE » June 1st, 2012, 1:38 pm

rodfarva wrote:
1UZFE wrote:who cares about lantern.. Batman is the bawce.....

batman is a closet case

ah feel so he just cut catwoman and posion IV, to hide how he bull Dick Grayson, Jason Todd and Tim Drake...
when u think about it ,he messed up Grayson till he cant tek it no more n turned to Night Wing..He raped Todd till he died and Drake is just gay...

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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage in Trinidad & Tobago?

Postby maj. tom » June 1st, 2012, 1:45 pm

^^^ Alan Scott is just one Lantern, the first of the chosen ones from Earth. There's Hal Jordan, Guy Gardner, John Stewart, and Kyle Rayner...

So the Green Lantern isn't gay, just that Lantern character Alan Scott who was never in the Green Lantern Corps in the first place. And he isn't the most popular Green Lantern in the comics anyway. Hal Jordan is.

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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage in Trinidad & Tobago?

Postby TRAE » June 1st, 2012, 2:00 pm

maj. tom wrote:^^^ Alan Scott is just one Lantern, the first of the chosen ones from Earth. There's Hal Jordan, Guy Gardner, John Stewart, and Kyle Rayner...

So the Green Lantern isn't gay, just that Lantern character Alan Scott who was never in the Green Lantern Corps in the first place. And he isn't the most popular Green Lantern in the comics anyway. Hal Jordan is.


why thank you sir

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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage in Trinidad & Tobago?

Postby Adam Strange » June 1st, 2012, 2:27 pm

A lot of times the gay marriage discussion gets bogged down in arguments steeped in emotion. Someone share a link to a blog of a friend of theirs which in my opinion put forward one of the best cases for gay marriage. The writer of the blog is a young trinidadian woman.

http://the-secular-humanist.blogspot.com/

Gay Marriage

I encourage you to research the individual propositions within this entry yourself. In your research, please be aware of the bias of your source material (e.g. religious sites versus sceptic's sites versus material meant for pure scientific/philosophical knowledge).

This is a bit of a deviation from the framework, but there has been so much debate about gay marriage in the media in the past few weeks, what with President Obama weighing in and all, that I just couldn't help but pick it up.

I am pro-gay marriage. Not that my opinion matters. That topic wouldn't even be broached as a legal issue in my home country of Trinidad & Tobago within this century and perhaps the next. But I think that my opinion, placed in the context of a country that is supposed to champion the idea of the separation of church and state, is quite important. Now a lot of countries don't really pretend that their legal frameworks are free of the constrictions of the dominant religion (or the religion of the dominant, as the case may be), but some countries do. The United States of America is one of them, but to say that US law is completely devoid of religious tenets is foolhardy.

But let me leave that off for a bit and explain my opinion.

I am not pro-gay. I am not anti-gay. I am gay neutral. I don't care if you're gay. Unless you're effeminate. Effeminate people annoy me. Even overly-effeminate women. But I digress. So technically, in that sense, I am not pro-gay marriage. I don't care who you want to get married to. But I do think that gays should have the right to get married like anyone else.

People need to keep in mind that marriage is an insitution of two parts – a legal institution and a religious institution. Therefore, to deny someone the right to marriage is to deny them both their civil rights and freedom of religion.

Let's start off with marriage as a legal institution. See, people forget about that part. They think the word, "marriage" and they start thinking about churches and priests and "before God", but they forget that marriage is also a contract. Not just any contract, either. It is a contract that your government recognises, and then immediately grants the signing parties particular rights. These rights include:

Property rights – in the case of divorce as well as in the case of death of either party
Custody rights – of children and other dependents
Other authorities – such as the right to make medical and financial decisions in the case of the incapacitation of either party
Tax benefits – in some countries


So when you get married, you're not just telling the government:

"I love this person and if I'm not having sex with them already, I'm gonna be starting real soon."

You are also telling the government:

"I trust this person, and hereby bestow upon them the right to my estate when I die, the right to my children/dependents, the right to pull the plug should I go into a coma, and the right to write off particular expenses in their tax returns."

To deny homosexuals the right to marry is to therefore deny them the right to tell the government who they trust enough to make the above-mentioned decisions. Even if you believe gay marriage to be sinful, how can a man telling the government that he trusts this other man to do those things for him to be sinful? Or woman for a woman? It's not. It is purely a legal issue. It has nothing to do with religion.

Now, there are two ways to address this.

The first way is to tell a gay couple:

"Look, you can't get married. But you can go to a lawyer and draw up a legally binding agreement that would bestow upon each other all of the property, custodial and medical rights that a married couple has. Tough sheit on the tax, by the way."

That certainly solves a lot of the legal problems right there, except that it's unfair. A heterosexual couple simply has to get married to automatically get these rights. A homosexual couple is relegated to a lawyer's office and all of the headache and legal fees that come with it. And of course, if the government decides to change their laws, married couples are automatically provided the benefits (or losses) of such a change, whereas the gay couple would have to return to the lawyer once again. Of course, practically speaking, the gay couple may simply draw up a document that speaks to all of these rights, but draft the agreement in a manner that they are comfortable with and not necessarily one that is reflective of the laws followed by heterosexual couples. Still, the need to draft such a document at all, is a reflection of that statement "separate but equal".

And that brings me to civil unions. Civil unions solve the legal problem, though in the manner "separate but equal", with all its discriminatory implications. But let's put aside the rhetoric and emotions of that for now. Civil unions aren't enough. Why? Because of the second institution of marriage – the religious institution.

At first glance, there may seem to be no case for gay marriage on religious grounds. God doesn't like gays. He destroyed a couple of cities for it. And so on and so forth. So it's clear. Homosexuality is a sin. But so is apostasy. And so is paganism. But those are legal. Why are sins legal? Because of the separation of church and state. Sinful and illegal are not meant to be equal terms.

A Christian is legally allowed to renounce their Christian faith (apostasy), convert to Hinduism (paganism) and get married to another Hindu. Why then can't a man marry another man? Because it is against God? So is Hinduism. So is Islam. So is Judaism. So is Buddhism. So is Mormonism (to a lot of Christians). So is Scientology (to almost anyone). But because people are free to believe whatever mumbo jumbo they want to believe, the government allows them to practice their religion however they see fit, once it does not break secular laws.

People believe a lot of absurd things. There are people out there who believe that:

Some guy named Xenu was the dictator of the “Galactic Confederacy” who, 75 million years ago, brought billions of his people to Earth in a spacecraft, stacked them around volcanoes and killed them using hydrogen bombs (Scientologists)
Some guy named Joseph Smith was directed to some golden plates in 19th century New York by an angel, translated the plates from “reformed Egyptian” to American English using a seer stone, birthing the Book of Mormon (Mormonism)
Cows should be revered rather than consumed (Hindus)
God wants them to strip the skin off of their newborn baby's penis (Jews)
Their child is better dead than alive with a blood transfusion (Jehovah's witnesses)
Women should be covered from head to toe save narrow slits for their eyes in order to detract sexual attention from themselves (Muslims)
One can attend church in the nude (a church at a nudist colony in Ivor, Virginia)


Yes, these are all recognised religions, folks. All of these people are allowed to believe what they want and practise their religion. But if two dudes believe in the same Christian God that you do, except that they think that God is okay with their gaydom, how is that any more absurd than any of the beliefs listed above? And why can't they practise their absurd religion like everyone else? Freedom of religion. Plain and simple. I understand that people believe that gay marriage is against God. And they are free to believe that, once they understand that it is against their god, and not the gays' god. Just like the Mormons' Jesus visited the Americas after his resurrection but most other Christians' Jesus did not. Very similar Jesuses but not the same. And so for the gays, very similar gods, but not the same. And no one should impose their god on the entire population, no matter how similar these gods may be to others, unless they want a theistic state.

Now, some people then go on to say, sarcastically, mind you:

“Well, why stop at the gays? Why not legalise polygamy? Let men marry animals, while you're at it!”

Well, yes and... no.

Let's start with polygamy. When people say this word, it immediately conjures up images of a single man with multiple wives (often hooded wives because they're Muslim, or in large, ugly dresses because they're holed up in a farm in the middle of nowhere, USA). But this could also mean a single woman with multiple men, or multiple men and women. Now, there are many societal and cultural reasons that has allowed and continues to allow polygamy as it is usually practiced around the world. This often has something to do with allowing women to gain some benefits – through marriage – that would have been otherwise extremely difficult to gain in a society that does not really grant equal rights to women. I am not getting too much into that – you can research it yourself.

As for practical reasons why polygamy does (or should) remain illegal. I imagine it can create an underclass for men. Minding wives is an expensive business – or so I hear – so the men with the most wives are likely to be rich, leaving the poor men to be single and more likely to become societal degenerates. This is far less likely to happen in the modern world with women capable of fending for themselves, of course. And speaking of independent women, let's not forget all of the misogynist overtones associated with polygamy that said independent women are unlikely to tolerate.

Apart from that though, there is no real reason to frown upon polygamy except for the statutory nightmare it would be to determine the property, custodial and medical decision-making rights of a dead man's 5 wives. So I'm okay with polygamy really. I surely couldn't do it, but kudos for those who can. And kudos to the government who can untangle that legislative web.

Bestiality by marriage though is absolutely absurd. A marriage is a legal contract. A legal contract can be drawn up only between two or more consenting parties of sound mind. Children cannot be parties to most contracts because they are not considered to be old enough to fully understand the implications of a legally binding resolution. Insane people cannot be parties to contracts because they too are not able to fully understand contractual obligations – but not because of their age, but because they don't have a sound connection to reality. Similarly – and it is absurd that I must say this – animals cannot be a party to a contract. And do I really need to say why?

If a man wants to firetruck a goat, by all means, let him go ahead and firetruck it. He should face no legal consequences (although this is certainly not the case in many countries, including mine) unless there is some risk of goat-to-man sexually transmitted diseases. But the law cannot (not “does not” or “should not”) legally recongise such a relationship.

So, please. Please, people. Stop using YOUR god as a reason to deny the gays their rights. They have a right to be miserable and boring like everyone else is.

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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage in Trinidad & Tobago?

Postby Habit7 » June 1st, 2012, 2:32 pm

tl;dr

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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage in Trinidad & Tobago?

Postby Sky » June 1st, 2012, 2:33 pm

slickonit wrote:
maj. tom wrote:
slickonit wrote:i vote no. under which religious rights would the marriage ceremony be performed?


Marriage is sanctioned by the law. That is why they get marriage certificates with the country's Official Seal no matter what religious ceremony is performed. Any two people can go to the Red House and let the officer marry them in front a witness and then sign some papers. Religion has nothing to do with it. Lots of people get married that way and then just hold a reception for guests. All over the world. Especially in Las Vegas. :lol:

^ agreed so with that being said religious belief is out of the question for the poll. Then why get married? why the need for the certificate?


To get a spouse's health insurance.
To take a joint loan.
To have a legal procedure for an estate in case of death.
To take 1/2 of someone's stuff if you break up and divorce.
To do other sheit married couples do financially.


It's stuff ^^ like that they want. That's why I said give it to them. If the religious don't want to do the ceremony, then fine. If you don't like 'em, look the other way.

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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage in Trinidad & Tobago?

Postby Sky » June 1st, 2012, 2:36 pm

Habit7 wrote:tl;dr


Read my post below, it's a summary of that. :P

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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage in Trinidad & Tobago?

Postby Habit7 » June 1st, 2012, 2:41 pm

all those stuff could be done with a contract

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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage in Trinidad & Tobago?

Postby Sky » June 1st, 2012, 3:00 pm

Habit7 wrote:all those stuff could be done with a contract


Well the template for this contract was made decades ago and participants sign the M cert. to bind themselves in this contract.
And no, someone cannot use someone else's health insurance using a contract. Spouse is spouse.

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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage in Trinidad & Tobago?

Postby TRAE » June 1st, 2012, 3:50 pm

dude that was way too long to read jed

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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage in Trinidad & Tobago?

Postby Lokita » June 1st, 2012, 5:03 pm

It will be good for tourism, gay couples from Jamaica and Guyana will come here to marry or even settle

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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage in Trinidad & Tobago?

Postby bluesteel29 » June 1st, 2012, 5:44 pm

yeah...cuz we want dem come n settle here :roll:

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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage in Trinidad & Tobago?

Postby Stephon. » June 2nd, 2012, 12:59 pm

Overheard a convo about some gay pride parade in Trinidad soon? :?

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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage in Trinidad & Tobago?

Postby S_2NR » June 2nd, 2012, 1:01 pm

trinidad not ready for them thing.
leave that to first world countries.

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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage in Trinidad & Tobago?

Postby Ronaldo95163 » June 2nd, 2012, 1:16 pm

Stephon. wrote:Overheard a convo about some gay pride parade in Trinidad soon? :?


I'm guessing that you'd be there since you're in support of them right?

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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage in Trinidad & Tobago?

Postby Stephon. » June 2nd, 2012, 5:07 pm

I'm going to sound very hypocritical when I say this but I don't want any faggy gay pride parades near me.

It's one thing to be gay, which is something I don't have a problem with at all, but the stereotypical gay guys I think mainly is what turns people off of gay people and what people automatically think of when they think of gay people. I get that maybe some guys may be camp and that's how they naturally are but I cannot stand the gay guys that make it known when they enter a room

"HEY GAIZ AND GWARLZ *SNAPS FINGERS IN A Z FORMATION* IMA GO OVAH TO BANG BANG TO GET SOME CLOTHES FO DA CLUBZ LATER *PICKS UP PINK DOGGIE BAG WITH PUMPEK INSIDE AND FROLICKS OUT OF ROOM*"

If a bunch of gay guys wanna go to an embarrassing pride parade with a bunch of saucy pau behaviors, dancing around topless painted in rainbows (which basically isolates them more from society) then they can go ahead, they won't achieve anything. You don't see straight people going around with black and white colors painted on themselves saying "STRAIGHT PRIDE STRAIGHT PRIDE" they would actually make sheit harder on themselves and the gay guys that act "normal" would be the ones that feel it. Actually gay guys that act "normal" hate the kind of gay guys that even attend these kind of parades so they can go ahead and take the backward step if they want.

Gay guys that fit the stereotype need to realize that the ignorant people that quote the bible aren't the only reason they aren't accepted, if you took away the bible and people thought for themselves, the people that voted no would simply say "because those flaming lady men are cringy as hell"

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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage in Trinidad & Tobago?

Postby Lokita » June 2nd, 2012, 5:15 pm

Stephon. wrote:Overheard a convo about some gay pride parade in Trinidad soon? :?


it have gay tuners? :idea:

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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage in Trinidad & Tobago?

Postby Stephon. » June 2nd, 2012, 6:17 pm

Lokita wrote:
Stephon. wrote:Overheard a convo about some gay pride parade in Trinidad soon? :?


it have gay tuners? :idea:

Total members 39581

Very likely.

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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage in Trinidad & Tobago?

Postby Ronaldo95163 » June 2nd, 2012, 6:23 pm



Stephon is this an example of what you were talking about?

Well yes it's very annoying :shock: :shock:

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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage in Trinidad & Tobago?

Postby zeeshan66 » June 3rd, 2012, 1:23 pm

absolutely not

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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage in Trinidad & Tobago?

Postby Sky » June 3rd, 2012, 3:07 pm

Stephon. wrote:I'm going to sound very hypocritical when I say this but I don't want any faggy gay pride parades near me.

It's one thing to be gay, which is something I don't have a problem with at all, but the stereotypical gay guys I think mainly is what turns people off of gay people and what people automatically think of when they think of gay people. I get that maybe some guys may be camp and that's how they naturally are but I cannot stand the gay guys that make it known when they enter a room

"HEY GAIZ AND GWARLZ *SNAPS FINGERS IN A Z FORMATION* IMA GO OVAH TO BANG BANG TO GET SOME CLOTHES FO DA CLUBZ LATER *PICKS UP PINK DOGGIE BAG WITH PUMPEK INSIDE AND FROLICKS OUT OF ROOM*"

If a bunch of gay guys wanna go to an embarrassing pride parade with a bunch of saucy pau behaviors, dancing around topless painted in rainbows (which basically isolates them more from society) then they can go ahead, they won't achieve anything. You don't see straight people going around with black and white colors painted on themselves saying "STRAIGHT PRIDE STRAIGHT PRIDE" they would actually make sheit harder on themselves and the gay guys that act "normal" would be the ones that feel it. Actually gay guys that act "normal" hate the kind of gay guys that even attend these kind of parades so they can go ahead and take the backward step if they want.

Gay guys that fit the stereotype need to realize that the ignorant people that quote the bible aren't the only reason they aren't accepted, if you took away the bible and people thought for themselves, the people that voted no would simply say "because those flaming lady men are cringy as hell"



It's not hypocritical. They're annoying. The article above also mentioned that. You wanna like man? I don't get it, but what floats your boat, doesn't bother me. But wanna get on like that?
You not helping the situation.

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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage in Trinidad & Tobago?

Postby Habit7 » June 3rd, 2012, 3:09 pm

HOLDER ORDERS WOMEN'S RESTROOMS OPEN TO MALE
University caves in after warning from Obama DOJ
Published: 05/23/2012 at 7:54 PM


On orders from Barack Obama’s Department of Justice, officials with the University of Arkansas at Fort Smith have given permission for a 38-year-old man to use the women’s restrooms on campus.

The report comes from Campus Reform.org, which explained that the individual also is seeking to have someone pay for a sex reassignment surgery to change from male to female.

Already living as a female, the individual, identified in the report as Jennifer Braly, started using women’s restrooms on campus, but quickly was the subject of complaints from women who saw him there.

The university had tried to make accommodations, designating gender-neutral restrooms in some buildings.

Not good enough, however.

Braly filed a complaint with the Civil Rights Division in the Department of Justice under Attorney General Eric Holder, school officials reported. The DOJ contacted the school.

“[T]he office of civil rights basically made its expectations through the attorney and the decision was made to respond to that direction,” said Mark Horn, the vice president of university relations. “[T]he DOJ complaint caused revisiting of our thinking.

“In the eyes of the law this individual [Braly] is entitled to use the bathroom that she identifies with,” Horn said.

The DOJ complaint was filed by Braly after the university told him to use any of the gender-neutral restrooms on campus.

“One problem to this is there are not unisex bathrooms in every building,” Braly wrote in an online essay about how other people should contribute to his surgery costs. “Especially the two main buildings where most of my classes are, so I have to go to a completely different building to use the restroom.”

While the university offered to convert other restrooms to gender-neutral, Braly said that wasn’t satisfactory.

The Campus Reform report said while anatomy matters little to the DOJ, it still remains a concern for other students.

“‘I disagree with allowing a male to use the female restrooms,” Amanda Shook, a senior at UA, told Campus Reform. “Even if they are a transgendered person, they are still a man, and should have to use the men’s restroom.”

The DOJ and school both have declined to release the letter giving the school directions on the dispute, Campus Reform reported.

The DOJ told Campus Reform that the records “pertain to a currently active Civil Rights Division enforcement and access to the records should therefore be denied pursuant to 5 U.S.C. § 552(b)(7)(A) since disclosure thereof could reasonably be expected to interfere with Civil Rights Division enforcement proceedings.”

While Braly did not respond to Campus Reform requests for comment, there is an extensive monologue by Braly on the fundraising website WePay.

That reflects that $75 has been contributed to the estimated $18,500 costs of the surgery.

Braly writes that his finances are depleted because when a second marriage ended, a custody battle “drained all my funds.”

“I am now a full-time student at the University of Arkansas Fort Smith. Most of my life is pretty normal as fitting into female society. I am passsable (sic) and have a part-time job. At the university I am running into problems all over the place.”

Braly explains that the choice to use women’s restrooms was unnoticed for a time.

“Then I took General Psychology and had asked the professor if I could give a lecture on Gender Identity Disorders for some extra credit. She not only allowed me to speak to my class but her other 2 classes as well. She also referred me to another professor and I spoke in his class too.

“I was excited I was educating people about being a transsexual and the other types of Gender Identity Disorders. Those lectures would be the beginning of all my problems. As I did get many great responses from students how my lectures greatly changed their perspective of what transsexuals are, some students were not so accepting.

“Some saw me using the womens public restrooms and complained to the university that they didn’t think I should be using the restroom with them.”

The report also complains that Braly didn’t get special accommodations in living arrangements.

“There came a problem that they would not let me room with males, and I could not room with females either unless I became friends with them and disclosed all my medical information to them…” the report continues.

“I tried to be creative and work with them on this, but to no prevail (sic),” the report said.

“Regardless of where I am at in my transtion (sic) I should have the same rights as every other female.”

Part of the reason for requesting donations for the surgery is because Braly’s income goes partly toward the monthly costs of hormone treatments as well as “required psychotherapy for transsexuals.”

http://www.wnd.com/2012/05/holder-order ... n-to-male/

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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage in Trinidad & Tobago?

Postby Neil.Shah » January 24th, 2013, 12:48 pm

Leviticus 18:22

Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.

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