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Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

this is how we do it.......

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Dizzy28
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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby Dizzy28 » March 16th, 2024, 12:32 pm

Chimera wrote:Habit is right about most people being undervalued.

Does locatjon of property play a part in rental value?

Like if you have a old board house somewhere in town near ariapita n thing

Dey gonna value it based on the location or the house itself
Location is one of the most important factors in valuing property whether sale or lease. They must be using that in their calculations.

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby shake d livin wake d dead » March 16th, 2024, 1:18 pm

Pays to be living in the bush...yuh house could be how nice, once it looking like you could get lost in the surroundings.....low values

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby 88sins » March 16th, 2024, 4:12 pm

paid_influencer wrote:432398688_7487480384605827_8553757389392605780_n.jpg

uncle need to stop bickering and pay his share


Going by the image, I know nobody who would rent a place in that condition for $8000/month.
This highlights a particular problem people don't like to talk about, and that's government attitude towards spending. Throughout our history, government has been consistently in the habit of overpaying, for damn near everything. And now, the effects of this are showing.
When you get accustomed to paying $1000 for an item everyone else knows should only cost $10, when presented with a similar item you will think it should cost close to $1000 too.

Also, I'm inclined to believe that government valuators will always over-value, both because they don't want the state to lose money from an undervalued estimation, (better to have to maybe refund people than to definitely have not taken enough from them), and to sustain the "eat ah food" mentality with regard to the state paying for goods and services from contracted entities (nobody wants to do work for the government to get paid the same amounts as if they in the open market, the only difference being you getting paid anywhere from 3-10 years down the road)

But this sort of insanity is par for the course here.

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby zoom rader » March 17th, 2024, 8:21 am

You all are missing the point when you pay in this PNM mess whatever the cost maybe

Will you see improvements or get services for your money paid?

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby PariaMan » March 17th, 2024, 9:52 am

They said they had planned to raise 400 million with the cut from 3 to 2 percent,that would be now 266 million

There are 14 corporations.

Dividing equally for argument sake, that would be 19 million per corporation

Do you really think 19 million will be enough for us to see changes ?

This is just a fools errand whose only result is more hardship on the most vulnerable in the country.

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby 88sins » March 17th, 2024, 12:07 pm

zoom rader wrote:You all are missing the point when you pay in this PNM mess whatever the cost maybe

Will you see improvements or get services for your money paid?


Well according to ravings from Idiot7...

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby DMan7 » March 17th, 2024, 12:09 pm

^ Aye brother man how you insulting meh so?

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby adnj » March 17th, 2024, 12:09 pm

[quote="PariaMan"][b]They said they had planned to raise 400 million with the cut from 3 to 2 percent,that would be now 266 million[/b]

There are 14 corporations.

Dividing equally for argument sake, that would be 19 million per corporation

Do you really think 19 million will be enough for us to see changes ?

This is just a fools errand whose only result is more hardship on the most vulnerable in the country.[/quote]

https://trinidadexpress.com/business/lo ... 5efb8.html

[img]https://i.imgur.com/GfgmRYh.png[/img]

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby PariaMan » March 17th, 2024, 12:38 pm

My concern is people on low or fixed income who are living in a house which they are not renting and extra few hundred a year plus increases in electricity and water rates could push them over the edge into abject poverty

I like this article

https://trinidadexpress.com/opinion/let ... 62b55.html

I especially like this proposal with taxes being based on property value instead of annual rental value

I quote from the article

"Value of property/annual local government tax:

Less than $500,000.............no tax

$500,000 to $1m....................$600

$1m to $2m..........................$1,200

$2m to $3.5m......................$2,400

$3.5m to $5m......................$3,600

$5m+.....................................$5,400"

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby 88sins » March 17th, 2024, 1:10 pm

DMan7 wrote:^ Aye brother man how you insulting meh so?


Duplicate account confirmation acquired :lol:
Mods, doh stick

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby 88sins » March 17th, 2024, 1:15 pm

PariaMan wrote:My concern is people on low or fixed income who are living in a house which they are not renting and extra few hundred a year plus increases in electricity and water rates could push them over the edge into abject poverty

I like this article

https://trinidadexpress.com/opinion/let ... 62b55.html

I especially like this proposal with taxes being based on property value instead of annual rental value

I quote from the article

"Value of property/annual local government tax:

Less than $500,000.............no tax

$500,000 to $1m....................$600

$1m to $2m..........................$1,200

$2m to $3.5m......................$2,400

$3.5m to $5m......................$3,600

$5m+.....................................$5,400"


Good idea, but the problem is that government valuators have zero qualms with saying that a rotten plywood shack is worth $750K when it's really worth closer to $750.

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby Dizzy28 » March 17th, 2024, 1:31 pm

PariaMan wrote:They said they had planned to raise 400 million with the cut from 3 to 2 percent,that would be now 266 million

There are 14 corporations.

Dividing equally for argument sake, that would be 19 million per corporation

Do you really think 19 million will be enough for us to see changes ?

This is just a fools errand whose only result is more hardship on the most vulnerable in the country.
TPRC has 212k people. There is no way it gets equal share with any other corporation or borough much less a Point Fortin with 20k people.

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby PariaMan » March 17th, 2024, 1:40 pm

The minister actually said the money would be shared among corporations when asked about those with fewer people

Even so the amounts collected will still be to small to make a difference

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby SLVR1 » March 17th, 2024, 4:08 pm

The process is so flawed. My house's ARV is 60k. My neighbor's similar sized house (about 200 sq ft less) got an ARV of 93k. Told her to file an objection. Both land parcels are the same size. Both are well maintained. Both are single level. Go figure. Gov't pulling figures from their tailpipe.

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby Habit7 » March 17th, 2024, 5:44 pm

No to Property Tax! We are against Property Tax! Vote for us and we again promise to remove property tax this time!


… but Imbert, we had plans for that 3%. Why you knock it down to 2%? That is good money you left on the table.

IMG_0146.jpeg


https://guardian.co.tt/news/cttrc-chair ... 058b95553b

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby 88sins » March 17th, 2024, 5:59 pm

Basically, people in North will be paying to maintain south

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby death365 » March 18th, 2024, 1:08 pm

so if u get 2 different bills from inland revenue- 1 from you dead uncle aka since 1976 and 1 in your name from filling out the form in 2022. you fill out the form for the dead uncle 1saying that your 2022 assessment is the correct form.

do u still have to pay both?

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby Chimera » March 18th, 2024, 1:34 pm

will persons in beetham and sealots be subject to property tax?
if not then no one should have to pay, end of story

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby zoom rader » March 18th, 2024, 1:36 pm

Habit7 wrote:No to Property Tax! We are against Property Tax! Vote for us and we again promise to remove property tax this time!


… but Imbert, we had plans for that 3%. Why you knock it down to 2%? That is good money you left on the table.

IMG_0146.jpeg


https://guardian.co.tt/news/cttrc-chair ... 058b95553b
There is no need for property tax is pnm knew how to spend money.

Wastage cause this property tax

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby zoom rader » March 18th, 2024, 1:37 pm

Chimera wrote:will persons in beetham and sealots be subject to property tax?
if not then no one should have to pay, end of story
They steal electricity and people expect them to pay tax

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby Habit7 » March 18th, 2024, 2:12 pm

zoom rader wrote:
Habit7 wrote:No to Property Tax! We are against Property Tax! Vote for us and we again promise to remove property tax this time!


… but Imbert, we had plans for that 3%. Why you knock it down to 2%? That is good money you left on the table.

IMG_0146.jpeg

https://guardian.co.tt/news/cttrc-chair ... 058b95553b
There is no need for property tax is pnm knew how to spend money.

Wastage cause this property tax

Rampersad said while the United National Congress (UNC) does not support the tax, the corporation had made plans for the monies that were expected to be generated.

“We were projected to get approximately $41 million in property taxes. In our allocation for this fiscal year, there was a line where property tax was included as a means of revenue and with that reduction, it would be to an average of $28 million.” This means a $13 million fall in expected revenue.

He said several projects will suffer as a result including a landslip prevention programme, and the purchase of two excavators, as well as other heavy equipment to desilt watercourses to prevent flooding in the region.


Tell CTTRC to cut the wastage and do more with their allocation without property tax.

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby Chimera » March 18th, 2024, 2:17 pm

Lol talk about counting yuh chickens before they hatch.

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby DMan7 » March 18th, 2024, 3:06 pm

So what they were planning to do with the 28 million? So they don't get 41 million but about that 28 though? These weasels already preparing excuses why they can't do certain things even though they already getting 28M which is 28M more than they used to get in previous years.

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby bluefete » March 18th, 2024, 3:27 pm

Chimera wrote:Lol talk about counting yuh chickens before they hatch.


DMan7 wrote:So what they were planning to do with the 28 million? So they don't get 41 million but about that 28 though? These weasels already preparing excuses why they can't do certain things even though they already getting 28M which is 28M more than they used to get in previous years.


Both of you are so right. When I read his comment, I was like WTH???

If these are the type of people waiting in the wings, we will be stuck with the PNM for decades!

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby VexXx Dogg » March 18th, 2024, 3:40 pm

Chimera wrote:Lol talk about counting yuh chickens before they hatch.

Ent Kamla against it? His statement counters her fundamental party position. He’s a UNC plant so I’m sure feathers already ruffled

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby The_Honourable » March 18th, 2024, 3:57 pm

Homeowners want clarity on erratic property tax valuation

Property owners say while they appreciate the Finance Minister’s proposal to decrease the property tax by one per cent, the percentage was never a problem. The issue, they said, was with the valuation of their properties and the lack of transparency about the way it was calculated.

Property tax is based on a percentage of the Annual Rental Value (ARV) of a property after a deduction of ten per cent for voids. For residential properties, the government has proposed to reduce the tax from three or two per cent and vacant residential land is 3.5 per cent.

Commercial property tax is five per cent, industrial with buildings is six per cent, industrial without buildings is three per cent, vacant commercial and industrial is five per cent, agricultural is one per cent and vacant agricultural is two per cent. The government moved to begin collecting only from residential properties in 2024.

The proposed amendments, if approved, will extend the time for the Valuation Division and the Board of Inland Revenue to complete their work, and give homeowners up to six months to lodge complaints.

According to the Office of the Prime Minister website, the rental value is a calculation of the rent the property would obtain on the open market if it were put up for rent.

“The qualified professionals at the Valuation Division of the Ministry of Finance are responsible for calculating the Annual Rental Value of properties based on the following established criteria: Location of the Property (Neighbourhood); Classification of the Property (Executive, Modern, Standard [I & II]); Category of the Property (Agricultural, Commercial, Residential, Industrial); Dimensions – Property Floor Area; Modifications to the particular property.”

But exactly how the ARV is calculated is still a mystery and many are complaining of exorbitant amounts for simple homes or widely varying amounts on different notices for the same location.

Afra Raymond, managing director of Raymond & Pierre Ltd, a company of chartered valuation surveyors, real estate agents and property consultants, said there were so many discrepancies because of the “mass valuation” approach which would produce a certain percentage of “erratic” valuations.

He added that, in his opinion, viewing the outside of a building to evaluate it was an acceptable way for the government to do so as there were many properties to get through.

“It is plainly impossible for the Valuation Division to inspect and measure each property which is to be taxed, so the approach has to be a crowd-sourced one in which the inevitable objections, and the resolution of those objections, refine the initially imperfect Valuation Roll. The Valuation Roll is the database which shows each property and is intended to allow the comparison of the properties/assessments.”

He also spoke to the Property Tax Act amendment tabled in Parliament on March 15 which sought to reduce residential tax from three to two per cent and includes a section that would extend the BIR’s deadline to issue notices of assessment to June 30 for this year only.

It also extends the objection period from 30 days to six months, which would allow the Finance Minister to amend schedules for certain acts, and made it so that Parliament would have to actively prevent the minister from making such changes rather than his needing the Parliament’s permission to do so.

He said the extension was a valuable opportunity for the government to fix some of the defects of the current arrangements, especially that of the Valuation Roll and the use of agents.

He said six of the ten grounds for objection listed at the back of the printed notices of valuation refer to the Valuation Roll, but it was unavailable to taxpayers or the public.

“I have been told by the senior official there that the roll cannot be disclosed due to its conflict with the Data Protection Act. The details in the Valuation Roll are all already published in the Registrar General’s online database of registered deeds and RPO documents, save and except for the actual property-tax amounts.

“If this fundamental defect is not rectified, it is my view that the property tax could be effectively inoperable and vulnerable to judicial review as defective/unfair legislation, perhaps even to the extent of its being declared unconstitutional.”

In addition, he suggested that agents be allowed to lodge an objection with written authorisation from the taxpayer. He said, at the initial stage, either taxpayers or their agents could file property-tax returns, so it is unacceptable that only the taxpayer may lodge an objection.

During the Conversations with the Prime Minister forum at Skiffle Bunch Panyard, Coffee Street, San Fernando, on March 5, PM Rowley addressed concerns about the valuations.

He said, “Provision in the law is there for if a person genuinely believes that the valuation, that rentable value, is out of wack, that you could go make a complaint to the tribunal. But it’s in a system of comply and complain. Because if we say, ‘complain and doh pay,’ then everybody will not pay and complain.

“But if it’s a system of comply and complain, you pay it, you’re complaining, the tribunal will look at it and if the tribunal reviews it, then you get a credit towards the next year’s tax.”

However, according to MP for Barataria/San Juan Saddam Hosein, the Valuation Tribunal had not yet been appointed.

Speaking at a UNC press conference on March 10, Hosein said he had written to President Christine Kangaloo to enquire on the tribunal’s status and she confirmed she had not appointed a Valuation Tribunal.

A man from Maraval complained he had four notices of valuation addressed to him even though he only had two properties.

He said he received two valuations for the property he lived in that had vastly different ARVs and a valuation, in his name, for a property he never owned. He said one of the notices of valuation for his home listed “Apartment 1” and “Apartment 2” even though it was one building.

“For my home, one of the notices said the ARV of one of the apartments was $280,000 which means, per month, it’s over $20,000 in rent. I say that can’t be my place either. I don’t know what going on, but that’s the kind of craziness we going through.”

Also, at his second property, a neighbour got a valuation for his building and the ARV was different from the one he received.

He recalled the valuator visited and asked how many rooms were in the house and took pictures of the outdoors, but he did not know how his second property was evaluated as neither he nor his family was there to open the building to a valuator or answer any questions.

“Look, I have no problem paying the tax, but the valuation is all over the place. You can’t tell me you watch a picture of a man’s place and decide the value. They don’t know, and not asking you how old the house is or if your roof rotting. Just because it’s looking nice doesn’t mean it’s in the best shape.

“And the Prime Minister is saying comply, then complain. So what? I have to pay four sets of taxes and hope they figure it out, if ever? What do I do if the next year comes and they haven’t addressed the discrepancies? Pay again? Just because you own property doesn’t mean you rich and have money to waste.”

He said he sent an e-mail to the Commissioner of Valuations but had not yet received a reply.

A Diego Martin homeowner recalled she went to the Ministry of Finance office to submit her valuation return form in May 2017 and submitted a deed, a WASA bill, an electricity bill, previous land and building tax receipts and photos of the property.

At some point between then and 2021, a valuation officer visited the property, which had four apartments. Because the property was tenanted, he was not able to go inside, but he looked around outside. She was never given a copy of that valuation report.

She received a notice of valuation dated October 2023, which she did not receive until December of that year because she was not in the country to sign for it. It stated that ARV was $180,072 or $15,000 per month and she had 30 days to appeal to the Commissioner of Valuations.

“By the time I got that letter my 30 days long gone. What am I supposed to do now? How they reach that mystical figure? They plucked it out of the air? The actual rental being received is about $165,000. Where is the other $15,000 per year coming from?

“Property tax should be based on square footage of an apartment or the land a building is on or something like that. That should be valued, not what I could be earning on the property.

"Rental values have dropped. I can’t get $5,000 for a three-bedroom apartment any more. People can’t afford that! Why are you taxing me on something I’m not getting?”

She said she did not mind paying the property tax but the ARV should be realistic and based on facts.

A Petit Valley property owner said she filed her return in October 2022 and received a notice of assessment from the Board of Inland Revenue (BIR) about two weeks ago, but never got a notice of valuation from the Finance Ministry.

She said her property had two units, upstairs and downstairs as well as a utility space or attic, but the building was incomplete. She said in her return, she submitted floor plans for the building which clearly indicated the attic was storage space, and a survey plan.

She added no one ever visited the property, but a neighbour told her a man who said he was from the Valuation Division had once stood in the road and looked at the house.

The assessment said the ARV for downstairs was around $36,000, or $3,000 a month, and upstairs was $132,000 or $11,000 a month, bringing her tax to about $4,600 a year. She said a private ARV assessment she had done in 2017 was much less than the Valuation Division’s.

“I looked at the difference between the valuations between the first and second storeys. The attic is not considered to be living space because the ceilings are not high enough, but I realise they have valued upstairs as if the attic is living space.”

She had to visit the Valuation Division head office in Barataria to get the notice of valuation and file an objection, as well as the BIR to file another objection to the assessment.

She complained the BIR gave her no receipt stating an objection had been filed, so she had no proof she made the objection in the allotted time.

“And while I have to object within a certain time frame, they have up to a year to reply. But the deadline for tax payment is in September, three months before the end of the year. What is that? So we have to pay tax, in advance, around the same time people just put out a set of money to send their children to school.”

On his Facebook page, vice president of the Aranguez Community Council and former councillor for San Juan East Safraz Ali highlighted a pensioner who received a $7,700 annual tax assessment for a two-bedroom house in Aranguez.

He told Newsday the 67-year-old owner lives alone and her only income is her pension. She was very worried about how she would pay her taxes.

“The house is a basic two-bedroom house. It doesn’t even have a gallery. And you want to tell me you assessed this lady’s house to have a monthly rental value of $23,764? How in this day and age a two-bedroom flat home in Aranguez can get a rental of $23,000 a month? That is an advantage!

“In her old age, when she should be kicking back and relaxing, she is stressing out because of something the government is doing. She is worried that she could lose her house to the government for not paying property tax. She doesn’t know what to do.”

According to the Inland Revenue Division of the Finance Ministry website, if a person does not pay their property tax by the September 30 deadline, there will be a ten per cent interest penalty.

“Interest at the rate of 15 per cent per annum will be charged on the increased amount (this includes any part of the unpaid principal in addition to the penalty) from October 1, 2025, the date of payment.”

It added that the BIR could take legal action to recover the taxes owed and was entitled to seize any moveable goods and possessions.

However, it continued, if a person was genuinely unable to pay the tax, the owner could apply to the BIR for a deferral of the payment.

The application, which covered two years, had to include proof that the applicant was in receipt of a public assistance grant, a disability grant, a senior citizens’ pension from the State, a TT conditional cash transfer card from the State or did not receive an annual income exceeding the maximum amount for state pensions.

https://newsday.co.tt/2024/03/17/homeow ... valuation/

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby toyolink » March 18th, 2024, 5:10 pm

This thing has turned into an almighty mess.
Really wont be surprised if a lawsuit isn't filed to put things on whole until the state gets its act together.
Anyhow, elections coming soon.

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby bluefete » March 18th, 2024, 6:38 pm

Teacher Percy say if you tell a lie, you going to hell as soon as you die. Yuh hear lie? Dat is lie! (King Liar - Lord Nelson)

Elections Coming.



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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby paid_influencer » March 18th, 2024, 7:08 pm

MSJ really is the only party that really gets it.

https://newsday.co.tt/2024/03/17/msj-ma ... tax-first/

MSJ: Make businesses pay property tax first

Citing the local adage 'Those who have more corn should feed more fowl,' the leader of the Movement for Social Justice (MSJ) suggested that property tax should first be applied to industrial and commercial users.

"There's a social justice issue involving that. In other words, those who are rich and wealthy should pay property taxes because by doing that, they will be contributing more to the national purse," David Abdulah said at a media conference held virtually on Sunday.

"Instead, you want to tax pensioners, people who are earning small amounts of money but have been able to buy their own home and so on. You want to tax them first before you tax people who put up all kinds of properties."

Abdulah added that after going after the industrial and commercial users, the Government could gradually make its way to homeowners, starting with the wealthy and then others.

He added that regular people are already burdened with the high cost of living and accused the Government of putting more weight on their backs.

Many of these people are drowning or barely keeping their heads above water.

"Now their heads would be pushed underwater, drowning them in debt and in a situation where their finances and income cannot meet their expenditures," Abdulah added.

"Most people do not make it from payday to payday. On top of that, people have to pay more for house insurance, which went up tremendously last year."

On Friday in Parliament, Finance Minister Colm Imbert laid the Property Tax (Amendment) Bill 2024, which is set for debate on March 18.

Imbert announced the halt of property tax payments using the existing system, adding that the 801 people who made payments would be refunded.

Under the original system, the tax was calculated based on three per cent of their residential properties' annual rental value (ARV).

The minister also announced the reduction rate of residential property tax from three per cent to two per cent, which he said represents an effective reduction of property tax by 33 per cent.

He added that the 30-day period to challenge property tax valuations was extended to six months (until June 30).

Imbert said the Government also intends to allow for the extension of all applicable periods by Order, as is the case under the Valuation of Land Act.

But on Sunday, the MSJ leader questioned what he called Imbert's last-minute announcement.

Abdulah referred to statements Imbert made in the last budget on the property tax, saying the minister purported that all was ready to implement it.

He also said that there were major errors in the ARV calculation.

Abdulah said the real issue was not simply the formula for calculating the property tax. He added that the real problem centred on the amount the valuation division came up with to identify peoples' ARV.

"The minister ought to have known in October that there were major problems with the assessments by the valuation division.

"Why did the minister not come back in January or the end of December and say we are not yet ready? He was adamant in his budget speech that it was going to be three per cent," Abdulah said.

"What then has caused him to change his mind and the Government to change its mind? We need to get a very clear answer. Is it, for example, an attempt, as many people believe, to appease voters, given that the election is due sometime within the next 18 months? Is that the reason?"

He questioned whether the Government was worried about winning votes or losing votes.


I don't particularly like the UNC's approach because they are pushing to get rid of the tax across the board, which helps to poor, yes, but helps the rich more. People like Prakash want to axe the tax but paying tax for properties in the US and Canada. Prakash should stop bickering and pay his share.

You are horrified at our intending to do away with private property. But in your existing society, private property is already done away with for nine-tenths of the population; its existence for the few is solely due to its non-existence in the hands of those nine-tenths. You reproach us, therefore, with intending to do away with a form of property, the necessary condition for whose existence is the non-existence of any property for the immense majority of society.

ah mean if you read the manifesto, is not really about residential property. is about the means of production, which would be the industrial and commercial property. that should be the first thing to be taxed, no the tail-backwards thing the PNM doing of taxing uncle shed and counting how many bathroom uncle have

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88sins
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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby 88sins » March 18th, 2024, 7:59 pm

Ah yes
Lets not forget, the leprechauns generous and benevolent 10% deduction for "voids"

Like you making money off the house you live in, or you does move out said house for 5 weeks every year.

Carry on people, carry on

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