The 2020 General Election Thread (AUGUST 10TH)

[Trinispougla]

Phillip on a rant, says he has no more f*cks to give

well tough....we are not first past the post, we are proportional representation and whoever wins the number of seats wins. I personally feel its better.....look at the two backward countries(Guyana and Suriname) that decided to do first past the post and see how well they have turned out

[Kewell35]

Phillip on a rant, says he has no more f*cks to give

People will criticize him but some of the stuff he say making sense here.

[sMASH]

too many straws. and that unusually early victory call, was the one that might break the camel's back.
given the ties that they have with maduro, i not too content that they being upstanding.
they coudl have put the elections later when the observers could come back, but opted to do it early.

[Blaze d Chalice]

Well unfortunately I could not be there in time so ended up not voting.

But as Zoom say, a no-vote or non-unc-vote is a pnm vote, so I kinda did my part.

Looking forward to 5 more years of PNM.

[sMASH]

Phillip on a rant, says he has no more f*cks to give

well tough....we are not first past the post, we are proportional representation and whoever wins the number of seats wins. I personally feel its better.....look at the two backward countries(Guyana and Suriname) that decided to do first past the post and see how well they have turned out

if the prime minister depends on how many mp's support him, we just have elections for a pm. nobody voting for their mp, everybody voting for party. we dont elect people that represent us.

[Trinispougla]

PNM sources said yesterday that while the figures were preliminary the PNM won the Tobago East seat by 1,200 votes; the San Fernando West seat by close to 3,000 votes (Faris Al-Rawi—10,234 to Sean Sobers—7,492); in Tunapuna the margin of victory was approximately 2,100 votes; in St Joseph over 900 votes, in La Horquetta/Talparo, the margin of victory was 2,090 votes and in Toco/Sangre Grande, the PNM won by over 3,000 votes.

https://trinidadexpress.com/news/local/pm-t-t-not-guyana/article_1fd57d44-dc3a-11ea-8281-0b0d909f5456.html
I dont vote and quite frankly i could care less about the process........but here's the real deal.....to the gentlemen with hurt feelings(most of those on this thread).....your party was defeated......observers or no observers, the result not going to change. As i said, the ROP( rep of the people act) does not mandate an election to be conducted in the presence of observers. If the intention is to get foreigners to make some pronouncement, it wont work. Trinidad and Tobago is not a recovering failed state like guyana and to a lesser extent Suriname. TTO still is the leader in the Caribbean(mention barbados and their 12 weeks of import cover and i will school you). We have always conducted our elections properly, second probably only to Barbados in the Caribbean in terms of elections. If a petition is filed, the the grounds are more tenuous than the 2015 affair....in the mean time, Couva hospital is one away from capacity and we still don't have a government. This is not the time to be playing marbles

[matr1x]

Could someone explain how they count the entire election in a few hours, but recount taking days?

[Trinispougla]

Could someone explain how they count the entire election in a few hours, but recount taking days?

I can't tell you how its conducted but the representatives of both the parties are watching the recount. Al wari was the, sobers or another rep was also there(even though he virtually conceded his seat already with a great deal of grace and class i must say)b and valmiki sumthin, who also was in the race was there. Nikolai edwards was there for a five minutes but didn't request a recount and left.

How Political Parties can announce preliminary results (the role of the unseen Polling Agent).
RISHI MAHARAJ·TUESDAY, AUGUST 11, 2020·READING TIME: 4 MINUTES
I have seen many questions being asked today as to how the PNM was able to declare the election without the EBC announcing any official results. I am doing this post to show how parties collect their results on election night and then pass it up the chain of command to the Party Headquarters. I also write this post with first hand knowledge as I will explain a bit later down.
In the week or a couple days before the elections the Candidate and their Campaign team would select Polling Agents to represent the Candidate at the different polling stations in the Constituency on Election Day. I performed this function in 1993 (for my Dad who contested the Local Government Election for the UNC in the San Juan/Laventille area and won) and in the General Election of 1995 and 2000 for Dr Fuad Khan in the San Juan/Barataria constituency. I have always been open and transparent about my experience in the electoral process, but am no longer actively involved in party politics since 2000.
As a Polling Agent, on the morning of the elections agents arrived at the Polling Station early and presented the Presiding Officer with there signed Form 49- Appointment of Polling Agent. Just before the poll is open, Polling Agents are allowed to inspect the polling station and surroundings to make sure everything is on the up and up. They check the Ballot Box to ensure there is no false bottom, and check the ballot papers, ink and voting booth etc.

Form 49 Appointment of Polling Agent, Representation of the People Act
During voting, you would have noticed the EBC officials calling out the elector’s name, number on the electoral list and consecutive number to the Polling Agents, who in most instances sit in the opposite end of the room and you may have never noticed them. They also cross off the names on their individual copy of the electoral list to ensure no person votes twice.
In the evening once the poll has closed the “fun” begins. After the last voter has left the Police Officer would do a last inspection, the doors are closed, and we begin the counting process. This can be an exceedingly long process depending on the number of voters who voted. The responsible officer would open the ballot box and take out each ballot one at a time and indicate the candidate and party that the vote goes to. The Polling Agents would have their own paper to tally the votes as they are called.
The Polling Agents have an ability to inspect the ballot and agree, disagree, or contest. Everything is noted. At the end once the counting has ended, they would all fill out copies of

Form 69 Statement of Poll. In the end each Polling Agent would have their own copy of the Statement of Poll certified by the Deputy Presiding Officer and signed by the Poll Clerk and each Polling Agent. in my case, I signed the PNM one and they signed mine and we both sign the official one to go back to the Office of the Returning Officer and the EBC. This is to ensure no discrepancies in the numbers called out by the parties and for transparency purposes. Remember that during this stage none of the Polling Agents would have an idea on the counts/results in the other polling divisions (they are in a bubble so to speak) and would therefore only know the votes before them.

Form 69 Statement of Poll, Representation of the People Act

Agents would then go back to the Constituency Office and hand over our Statement of Poll to the staff who would write it on the board and have a running total. Also, they would telephone the results to the Party Headquarters in Renzi who did the same thing. Parties would also know based on experience where there polling division strongholds are and not be overly worried if the early results showed us trailing.
Therefore, this is how the Political Parties can put out numbers of results quicker than the EBC. In my experience there is little change or difference between the numbers put out by the party and the EBC.
It should also be noted that even the seats in which recounts are requested, all candidates/political parties are allowed to have representatives present (this person doesn’t need to be a Polling Agent) and these representatives are also required to sign off on the recount. While it is therefore any political parties right to ask for a recount, with margins in the 100’s and less than 1,000 votes, the second-place candidate is always playing catch up.

Dr Hamid Ghany's protoje on how parties can declare before the final tally of votes. Very good read

[Lou Screuz]

Ouch Faris..stop making sense..

https://www.facebook.com/377693645609/p ... 069495610/

As you on faris....why did he show up at ebc marabella's office after the stations were closed?? What were in those envelopes?????

if i was one of them men who recorded the video

the one thing i would be doing right now

is making another video

of myself :

" my name is ___ _____
i am of sound mind and character
i have never suffered from mental depression
nor am i suffering from depression at this time.
i have never been suicidal
i have a good life and i am looking forward to the future
and i will never commit suicide "

and give copies to at least 3 trusted friends and relatives

[VII]

Many of the guests on the panels declared before any final official figures also and they were all right with the amount of seats etc,its so obvious how this could happen,its simple arithmetic and historic projections of certain polling divisions etc, but the duncie here is just mind boggling..

Its kinda similar to how a team can be declared winners of tournament before its finished,simply because the other teams can't make up the points to defeat them in the allotted time left etc.

Steups I'm giving tuner a rest,its proving to be an exercise in self retardation..

Keep grasping at wet slippery straws,and good luck to you all .

[Dizzy28]

I think you need to relook the election systems of those three countries you called because you have it all mixed up.

Phillip on a rant, says he has no more f*cks to give

well tough....we are not first past the post, we are proportional representation and whoever wins the number of seats wins. I personally feel its better.....look at the two backward countries(Guyana and Suriname) that decided to do first past the post and see how well they have turned out

[Trinispougla]

Many of the guests on the panels declared before any final official figures also and they were all right with the amount of seats etc,its so obvious how this could happen,its simple arithmetic and historic projections of certain polling divisions etc, but the duncie here is just mind boggling..

Its kinda similar to how a team can be declared winners of tournament before its finished,simply because the other teams can't make up the points to defeat them in the allotted time left etc.

Steups I'm giving tuner a rest,its proving to be an exercise in self retardation..

Keep grasping at wet slippery straws,and good luck to you all .

Derek Ramsamooj by half 8 said the UNC would win Moruga tableland, before more than half the vote was counted.......by half 9 he was decalring the the PNM would win 22-19 simply based on exit polls done at the polling stations. And because race is a big factor in our elections,it is relatively easy to predict how polling divisions would have voted based on data. For e.g, toco in toco sangre grande wout have given the pnm a significantbatch of votes while vega de oropuche, in the same constituency would have given the unce a significant batch of votes which it did. I think Nabila greene got over 690 votes from vega de oropuche alone

[eliteauto]

He just got that part backwards. We're first past the post, not proportional representation. The UNC got the popular vote and lost, I'm seeing several posts on social media harping on this and questioning how is that possible, seems many don't know our system. Ironically the UNC has spoken about a PR system and had the constitutional majority to implement it and didn't

[Trinispougla]

I think you need to relook the election systems of those three countries you called because you have it all mixed up.

Phillip on a rant, says he has no more f*cks to give

well tough....we are not first past the post, we are proportional representation and whoever wins the number of seats wins. I personally feel its better.....look at the two backward countries(Guyana and Suriname) that decided to do first past the post and see how well they have turned out

You're right. That was a typo. But yeah as i was saying. Proportional representation, wherethe entire country is lumped into one constituency, with different regions has proven to be a catalyst of ethnic tension. Historically. FPP has its drawbacks like the difficulty of third parties to make an impact but its a lot easier to manage than Proportional representation

[Trinispougla]

He just got that part backwards. We're first past the post, not proportional representation. The UNC got the popular vote and lost, I'm seeing several posts on social media harping on this and questioning how is that possible, seems many don't know our system. Ironically the UNC has spoken about a PR system and had the constitutional majority to implement it and didn't

Was a typo, didnt mix it up. Explanation is at the bottom

[Trinispougla]

Phillip on a rant, says he has no more f*cks to give

well tough....we are not first past the post, we are proportional representation and whoever wins the number of seats wins. I personally feel its better.....look at the two backward countries(Guyana and Suriname) that decided to do first past the post and see how well they have turned out

if the prime minister depends on how many mp's support him, we just have elections for a pm. nobody voting for their mp, everybody voting for party. we dont elect people that represent us.

Yes...virtually. A similar thing happened in 2007. The PNM did not with the popular vote in 2007 where tge UNC and the COP fought alone. If im not mistaken, the COP won the popular vote but failed to capture a seat. The PNM came third in terms of the popular vote but captured 26 seats, close to a constitutional 3/4 majoriyy

[Redress10]

If alluh only hear what some people in the U N C do in this election just to try and sink Tanty.

Would never look at them the same again.

Hoss.....

Ganga S is a good place to start

Hosss

Hear nah...that news have me feeling uncomfortable. No wonder she had to clean her slate and get rid of all of them.

[Redress10]

Phillip on a rant, says he has no more f*cks to give

well tough....we are not first past the post, we are proportional representation and whoever wins the number of seats wins. I personally feel its better.....look at the two backward countries(Guyana and Suriname) that decided to do first past the post and see how well they have turned out

if the prime minister depends on how many mp's support him, we just have elections for a pm. nobody voting for their mp, everybody voting for party. we dont elect people that represent us.

Yes...virtually. A similar thing happened in 2007. The PNM did not with the popular vote in 2007 where tge UNC and the COP fought alone. If im not mistaken, the COP won the popular vote but failed to capture a seat. The PNM came third in terms of the popular vote but captured 26 seats, close to a constitutional 3/4 majoriyy

COP could never win popular vote and not win a seat. At best they were third most popular.

[Trinispougla]

Phillip on a rant, says he has no more f*cks to give

well tough....we are not first past the post, we are proportional representation and whoever wins the number of seats wins. I personally feel its better.....look at the two backward countries(Guyana and Suriname) that decided to do first past the post and see how well they have turned out

if the prime minister depends on how many mp's support him, we just have elections for a pm. nobody voting for their mp, everybody voting for party. we dont elect people that represent us.

Yes...virtually. A similar thing happened in 2007. The PNM did not with the popular vote in 2007 where tge UNC and the COP fought alone. If im not mistaken, the COP won the popular vote but failed to capture a seat. The PNM came third in terms of the popular vote but captured 26 seats, close to a constitutional 3/4 majoriyy

COP could never win popular vote and not win a seat. At best they were third most popular.

You're right. They won 148,000 votes and the unc would have won hansomely if the split did not occur because the got 199,000+ votes which would have easily eclipsed tge 299,000+ total of the pnm

[neilsingh100]

UNC need to up their game and they will have a good chance next election. First thing they need to do is get rid of Kamla then get some quality candidates in the marginals. They need to find away to broaden their appeal to independent and mixed voters.

[j.o.e]

Could someone explain how they count the entire election in a few hours, but recount taking days?

On election night raw ballots are counted.
When a recount is done each ballot is crosschecked against the original list and the box is audited to confirm that the votes associated with that polling division are in that box. It’s also done by a recount committee in the presence of candidates or their reps.
A recount will take longer because it’s almost like a mini audit. It’s confirming someone didn’t dump 1000 fraudulent votes for one party in. They’re not just recounting the votes again.

[screwbash]

Phillip on a rant, says he has no more f*cks to give

well tough....we are not first past the post, we are proportional representation and whoever wins the number of seats wins. I personally feel its better.....look at the two backward countries(Guyana and Suriname) that decided to do first past the post and see how well they have turned out

if the prime minister depends on how many mp's support him, we just have elections for a pm. nobody voting for their mp, everybody voting for party. we dont elect people that represent us.

Yes...virtually. A similar thing happened in 2007. The PNM did not with the popular vote in 2007 where tge UNC and the COP fought alone. If im not mistaken, the COP won the popular vote but failed to capture a seat. The PNM came third in terms of the popular vote but captured 26 seats, close to a constitutional 3/4 majoriyy

COP could never win popular vote and not win a seat. At best they were third most popular.

You're right. They won 148,000 votes and the unc would have won hansomely if the split did not occur because the got 199,000+ votes which would have easily eclipsed tge 299,000+ total of the pnm

daz becuase indian people nasty and a set ah nemakaram. when dey fall out or discipline by the leader they run an open dey own party with this i go do for yuh mentality, just as you see with dookeran when he was ejected by the unc, same with ramesh, same with panday, same with jack, same with hulsie all in the mindset of destroying kamla and not the pnm. pnm does laugh at all dem Indo Trini. le hunt an others were rejected by the party and none of them run off with a do for yuh mentality and still help d pnm win cause they united to carry the country forward not like dem indian who showing they out of them self and when they aint get picked they taking they ball and going home. kamla wasnt fighting the pnm alone she was fighting the PEP, COP,ILP,MSJ and who ever else.

[zoom rader]

PNM sources said yesterday that while the figures were preliminary the PNM won the Tobago East seat by 1,200 votes; the San Fernando West seat by close to 3,000 votes (Faris Al-Rawi—10,234 to Sean Sobers—7,492); in Tunapuna the margin of victory was approximately 2,100 votes; in St Joseph over 900 votes, in La Horquetta/Talparo, the margin of victory was 2,090 votes and in Toco/Sangre Grande, the PNM won by over 3,000 votes.

https://trinidadexpress.com/news/local/pm-t-t-not-guyana/article_1fd57d44-dc3a-11ea-8281-0b0d909f5456.html
I dont vote and quite frankly i could care less about the process........but here's the real deal.....to the gentlemen with hurt feelings(most of those on this thread).....your party was defeated......observers or no observers, the result not going to change. As i said, the ROP( rep of the people act) does not mandate an election to be conducted in the presence of observers. If the intention is to get foreigners to make some pronouncement, it wont work. Trinidad and Tobago is not a recovering failed state like guyana and to a lesser extent Suriname. TTO still is the leader in the Caribbean(mention barbados and their 12 weeks of import cover and i will school you). We have always conducted our elections properly, second probably only to Barbados in the Caribbean in terms of elections. If a petition is filed, the the grounds are more tenuous than the 2015 affair....in the mean time, Couva hospital is one away from capacity and we still don't have a government. This is not the time to be playing marbles

PNM sources ?

[zoom rader]

He just got that part backwards. We're first past the post, not proportional representation. The UNC got the popular vote and lost, I'm seeing several posts on social media harping on this and questioning how is that possible, seems many don't know our system. Ironically the UNC has spoken about a PR system and had the constitutional majority to implement it and didn't

PNM ppl will not welcome proportional representations, Manning was never in favor of it nor will Rowlee.

We still need to see the official results and not no media results

This is worst election ever from EBC, they operated like a village council elections

[Redman]

UNC need to up their game and they will have a good chance next election. First thing they need to do is get rid of Kamla then get some quality candidates in the marginals. They need to find away to broaden their appeal to independent and mixed voters.

Not just Kamla....but the party needs to mature....and become something.

They need a party that has a presence....not just be a cover for individuals that doing their thing.

The PNM party has evolved over time...so that it has a separate identity,structure,and processes that give the entity a almost tangible presence.

Identify and stick to some rules regulations and philosophy...so that people can buy in and relate to....not just be the anti PNM choice.
Stand for something.

The UNC has many of the components...but they need to do the work to intentionally form an institution that is the party.

If you are honest....and look at previous posts....UNC proponents can not validate what the UNC is without Propping their statement on the PNM....seems to be a lack of identity.


They need to do the work

[agent007]

Since 2016, the democrats not giving Trump a chance to breathe. They want him out by any means necessary. Well I have news for this illegitimate PNM government, the movement has begun here in T&T. This stinking PNM govt must be removed who were put there by a bunch of kants who can’t see nothing except race but like being oppressed for 48 yrs.

They want jobs, they want housing, they want education, they want a better community, they want clean streets, they want facilities and infrastructure, they want the hatred and victimization to done, they can’t see another black man get shot and killed by police, they protest and protest, they throw water on hinds and tell him get out. But a minority says Kamla can’t be in power cause of race? Watch bacchanal now, not even Destra could keep up with this one.

[zoom rader]

Since 2016, the democrats not giving Trump a chance to breathe. They want him out by any means necessary. Well I have news for this illegitimate PNM government, the movement has begun here in T&T. This stinking PNM govt must be removed who were put there by a bunch of kants who can’t see nothing except race but like being oppressed for 48 yrs.

They want jobs, they want housing, they want education, they want a better community, they want clean streets, they want facilities and infrastructure, they want the hatred and victimization to done, they can’t see another black man get shot and killed by police, they protest and protest, they throw water on hinds and tell him get out. But a minority says Kamla can’t be in power cause of race? Watch bacchanal now, not even Destra could keep up with this one.

Dat does matter as non PNM ppl will always move on and better themselves.

next few years Venes will be above PNM ppl, will PNM ppl cry race holding them back as venes move up

[alfa]

Could someone explain how they count the entire election in a few hours, but recount taking days?

On election night raw ballots are counted.
When a recount is done each ballot is crosschecked against the original list and the box is audited to confirm that the votes associated with that polling division are in that box. It’s also done by a recount committee in the presence of candidates or their reps.
A recount will take longer because it’s almost like a mini audit. It’s confirming someone didn’t dump 1000 fraudulent votes for one party in. They’re not just recounting the votes again.

So on first count someone can dump 1000 extra fraudulent votes and no one will pick it up unless a recount is called for?

[Dizzy28]

Many of the guests on the panels declared before any final official figures also and they were all right with the amount of seats etc,its so obvious how this could happen,its simple arithmetic and historic projections of certain polling divisions etc, but the duncie here is just mind boggling..

Its kinda similar to how a team can be declared winners of tournament before its finished,simply because the other teams can't make up the points to defeat them in the allotted time left etc.

Steups I'm giving tuner a rest,its proving to be an exercise in self retardation..

Keep grasping at wet slippery straws,and good luck to you all .

Derek Ramsamooj by half 8 said the UNC would win Moruga tableland, before more than half the vote was counted.......by half 9 he was decalring the the PNM would win 22-19 simply based on exit polls done at the polling stations. And because race is a big factor in our elections,it is relatively easy to predict how polling divisions would have voted based on data. For e.g, toco in toco sangre grande wout have given the pnm a significantbatch of votes while vega de oropuche, in the same constituency would have given the unce a significant batch of votes which it did. I think Nabila greene got over 690 votes from vega de oropuche alone

Not sure why a lot of Trinis not more aware of the significance of the individual polling divisions.
I remember in 1995 when Assam was up against in Ramreksingh in St Joseph which was one of the last seats to be counted and when one of the news casters said the last box to be counted would be Aranguez my father went to sleep and said UNC winning the seat even though at that time Ramreksingh was leading.

Similarly in 2007 Dookeran was actually leading Vasant Bharath for the majority of the count in St Augustine until the Tunapuna Hindu School Polling stations were counted last.

Once you have done your ground work as a political party you more or less know down to the Polling division an expected # of votes. This is what Nigel Henry usually does well with.

And the most recent EBC report also had significant changes to two marginals. Three polling divisions came out Sangre Grande (Sangre Grande Northeast and Vega de Oropuche) and into Cumuto/Manzanilla and two polling divisions came out of Sando East and into Sando West (Les Effort/Cipero). I laughed when men kept lumping Sangre Grande as a marginal b/c it had an almost 3,000 vote margin in 2015 and lost 1500 votes from historically UNC dominated polling divisions.

[Redman]

@alfa...
How would you dump it.....the boxes are always under multiple eyes....reps from all parties are present.