The Religion Discussion

[megadoc1]

I have no idea what a "sad" is... but it is rather amusing when arrogant ignorance falls flat on its face... Your response is a perfect example of "taking things out of context", for that 'squat n' squeeze' material you just reproduced wasn't what I was referring to. I was talking about the question of:

^ catch me? LOL

how do you know their faith in the other religion was as strong as yours?
how would you know if their faith were stronger than mine?

I might as well point out to you that you still haven't answered Duane:
but i answered you ...........Faith in something false has the same effect as no faith at all

And your testing is tainted as you use YOUR experience to prove your belief and use someone else's experience to prove their belief is wrong; where is the constant?
no partner don't try that you are in error

That nonsense does not constitute an answer. He is not in error. Obviously, you use the word "test" without even knowing one is. who knows, maybe all my years of repairing electronics and digital systems must have warped my knowledge of what a test is ................wait.

I've never said your experiences were wrong or never occurred.

You keep flapping on and on about how others here have to prove you wrong. You specifically pointed out "your experiences" and implied that their existence were questioned. Duane simply stated that wasn't the point. As usual, you missed that.to him it may not be a point but to me it is so it comes down to who really missed what? and if thats my point , who is he to say it isn't?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

thanks d spike

The Muslims repeatedly claim that the Bible has been corrupted and that the Qu'ran is the only trustworthy scripture in existence. This is why Muslims often attack the Bible.

Did the Bible also state that the Inquisition should take place or was that directly from God?

Again, like Toyo, you are reading a biased Christian source to find out what Muslims think.
Would you ask an Imam to teach you about Hinduism? No!

[megadoc1]

thanks d spike

The Muslims repeatedly claim that the Bible has been corrupted and that the Qu'ran is the only trustworthy scripture in existence. This is why Muslims often attack the Bible.

Did the Bible also state that the Inquisition should take place or was that directly from God?

Again, like Toyo, you are reading a biased Christian source to find out what Muslims think.
Would you ask an Imam to teach you about Hinduism? No!

say what you want but as long as these verses are in the Qu'ran, It is a valid question
untill then it will be safe to say as long as smash says the bible is corrupt, he is contradicted by the Qu'ran and the words of Allah

[bluefete]

Why are scientists so desperate to prove that we came from monkeys???? Next thing you know, they may say some newly discovered chicken might be the "missing link".

Why is it so difficult to simply give God the credit?

Fossils found of ancient primate that could be 'missing link' between humans and monkeys

By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 10:47 AM on 15th July 2010

A missing link in human evolution may have been filled after the fossilised remains of a monkey that swung through the trees almost 30 million years ago were discovered.

The new species could bring us a vital step closer to dating the divergence between the most sophisticated primates, apes and hominoids, and the Old World monkeys native to Europe, Africa and Asia.

The timing of the split from a common ancestor is a key topic in human evolution and genetic research places it at around 30 to 35 million years ago, during a period geologists call the early Oligocene.

But the fossil record from the mid-to-late Oligocene of between 30 and 23 million years ago has left little evidence documenting the features of the last common ancestor or supporting when this important event happened.

Professor William Sanders, a palaeontologist at the University of Michigan, said that it was an 'extraordinary find'.

Dr Sanders said: 'Saadanius is close to a group that eventually led to us.

'If we knew something about the time period and the condition this animal was living in, we might be able to discover what brought about the changes that led to [the evolution of] apes and humans.'

The creature's partial skull dug up at Harrat Al Ujayfa in western Saudi Arabia represents a previously unknown monkey that weighed between 15 and 20 kilos

The medium sized monkey Saadanius hijazensis, described in Nature, dates to about 29 to 28 million years ago and has few characteristics of catarrhines, the common ancestor of Old World monkeys and hominoids.

This indicates the divergence happened later than previously thought, between 29 and 24 million years ago.

The fossils show that the primate looked very much like a modern new world monkey, such as a capuchin but it was probably slightly larger.

The researchers say the findings will fill in some crucial gaps in our understanding of the nature and timing of evolutionary events that led to human origins.

They added: 'Saadanius provides new evidence consistent with a divergence date after 29 to 28 million years ago, and its comparative study offers a basis for recognition of the first hominoids subsequent to this event.'

The fossils of the ancient primate which may help scientists pinpoint when apes and monkeys diverged

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... z0tntwQaey


ACTUALLY, THE BONES AT (A) LOOK MORE LIKE A CHICKEN HEAD TO ME

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Why are scientists so desperate to prove that we came from monkeys????

Scientists are only desperate to find the truth. So far they have found empirical evidence of species that evolved into man and many other species that evolved into modern day flora and fauna. Unlike religion, science works hard at proving itself wrong through rigorous testing and scrutiny by the entire scientific community. Religion on the other hand works hard at proving itself right, denouncing anyone who questions it or tries to prove otherwise.

Why is it so difficult to simply give God the credit?

Sure, why not discard all the discoveries made and just resort to thinking God did it. Discard all curiosity and research and quit trying to find out new things, lest we discover that evolution exists. We can go back to the dark ages and use horse and carriage and stop taking medication such as anti-biotics because those blaspheming, heretic scientists developed it using evolutionary science.

You should walk to work and get off the internetz cause the same SCIENCE and craving for knowledge that developed electronic communication also discovered Homo Erectus and evolution.

[MG Man]

the innernetz is teh devil

[bluefete]

Why are scientists so desperate to prove that we came from monkeys????

Scientists are only desperate to find the truth. So, scientists start from the perspective that God is wrong or does not exist. That is their first and major problem. Holistically, the universe is a marvel of CREATION. Again, things do not come into existence by themselves.So far they have found empirical evidence of species that evolved into man and many other species that evolved into modern day flora and fauna. If only they were willing to work with the source document! Genesis 1:11 clearly states that God made things after their kind. Thus it is scientifically illogical for one species to morph into another; i.e. for a monkey to evolve into a homo sapien or for a homo sapien to evolve from the branch of a monkey tree.Unlike religion, science works hard at proving itself wrong through rigorous testing and scrutiny by the entire scientific community. Religion on the other hand works hard at proving itself right, denouncing anyone who questions it or tries to prove otherwise.

Why is it so difficult to simply give God the credit?

Sure, why not discard all the discoveries made and just resort to thinking God did it. Discard all curiosity and research and quit trying to find out new things, lest we discover that evolution exists. Is that why scientists are trying so hard to "prove" that it exists?We can go back to the dark ages and use horse and carriage and stop taking medication such as anti-biotics because those blaspheming, heretic scientists developed it using evolutionary science.

You should walk to work and get off the internetz cause the same SCIENCE and craving for knowledge that developed electronic communication also discovered Homo Erectus and evolution."... many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased" Daniel 12:4

You shall live to see even more marvellous discoveries including those on Mars & on the Moon "they" are trying to hide from us.

[bluefete]

the innernetz is teh devil

Why you so????

[illumin@ti]

bluefete.... yuh pc wukkin or it down still? ,, i decided i have no more breath to waste on the misguided one megadoc...

[Chimera]

bluefete.... yuh pc wukkin or it down still? ,, i decided i have no more breath to waste on the misguided one megadoc...

you would think God would fix his pc, seeing as hes such a big believer

[d spike]

you would think God would fix his pc, seeing as hes such a big believer

Well, since that didn't happen (otherwise he would have changed the thread title to something like, "Your Best Encounter with God - Miraculous PC Repairs"), maybe there's a reason... perhaps MG is right...

the innernetz is teh devil

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

So, scientists start from the perspective that God is wrong or does not exist. That is their first and major problem.

Not at all, science deeply studies religion and religious beliefs. It is a major part of anthropology. If there was empirical evidence that God created the universe then i am sure scientists would be thrilled!
However they have one religion saying that God created the universe in 1 week while calling out commands and making man out of dirt and woman out of a rib. While another religion says that the universe was created when Brahma stretched the heavens, skies and earth from three pieces of a magnificent lotus flower that grew from the navel of Vishnu. I am sure both these religions think the other's creation story sounds silly.

Science cannot base it's findings on stories like this without factual data and evidence. Science is NOT about belief. And even if you can't wrap your head around that then who's story should the scientists believe?

Tell me which proof should scientists use to prove that the Christian God, or the Hindu God or the Mayan God created the universe in the manner they claim he did.

Holistically, the universe is a marvel of CREATION.

I agree with you here 100%, but HOW was it created? Where is the proof?

Again, things do not come into existence by themselves.

Scientists never said anything came into existence by itself. You clearly do not understand what evolution describes.

If only they were willing to work with the source document!

And who says THIS is the source document?

Genesis 1:11 clearly states that God made things after their kind.

Kind? which kind? How do you make a bird to be a bird when there wasn't any birds before it? What kind are you making it like?

Thus it is scientifically illogical for one species to morph into another; i.e. for a monkey to evolve into a homo sapien or for a homo sapien to evolve from the branch of a monkey tree.

Ok forget about the missing link, what do you say then of homo erectus or the other proof that has been found of our ancestors with more ape like features? And what of DNA? God made us 98% like monkeys? Why?

... many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased"[/b] Daniel 12:4

answer my question and leave the eisegesis out.

You shall live to see even more marvellous discoveries including those on Mars & on the Moon "they" are trying to hide from us.

Who are they? I thought only Jesus talked in parables?

[bluefete]

bluefete.... yuh pc wukkin or it down still? ,, i decided i have no more breath to waste on the misguided one megadoc...

It is working now after being down for a few weeks. Thanks.

[bluefete]

bluefete.... yuh pc wukkin or it down still? ,, i decided i have no more breath to waste on the misguided one megadoc...

you would think God would fix his pc, seeing as hes such a big believer

Well, he certainly did. By finally sending the right person.

[bluefete]

you would think God would fix his pc, seeing as hes such a big believer

Well, since that didn't happen (otherwise he would have changed the thread title to something like, "Your Best Encounter with God - Miraculous PC Repairs"), maybe there's a reason... perhaps MG is right...

the innernetz is teh devil

Surprisingly. MG Man was right. It was "divine intervention" so that I could research some additional information which I am getting ready to drop on you all.

[bluefete]

So, scientists start from the perspective that God is wrong or does not exist. That is their first and major problem.

Not at all, science deeply studies religion and religious beliefs. It is a major part of anthropology. If there was empirical evidence that God created the universe then i am sure scientists would be thrilled!
However they have one religion saying that God created the universe in 1 week while calling out commands and making man out of dirt and woman out of a rib. While another religion says that the universe was created when Brahma stretched the heavens, skies and earth from three pieces of a magnificent lotus flower that grew from the navel of Vishnu. I am sure both these religions think the other's creation story sounds silly.There is only One God.

Science cannot base it's findings on stories like this without factual data and evidence. Science is NOT about belief. And even if you can't wrap your head around that then who's story should the scientists believe? The one for whom there is "empirical data?"

Tell me which proof should scientists use to prove that the Christian God, or the Hindu God or the Mayan God created the universe in the manner they claim he did.See above

Holistically, the universe is a marvel of CREATION.

I agree with you here 100%, but HOW was it created? Where is the proof?The proof is all around you.

Again, things do not come into existence by themselves.

Scientists never said anything came into existence by itself. You clearly do not understand what evolution describes.Then you need to re-read the Big Bang Theory.

If only they were willing to work with the source document!

And who says THIS is the source document?

Genesis 1:11 clearly states that God made things after their kind.

Kind? which kind? How do you make a bird to be a bird when there wasn't any birds before it? What kind are you making it like?What came first? The chicken or the egg? If the chicken, where did the chicken come from? If the egg, who laid the egg? Or does an egg have to be laid? (Absolutely no pun intended!!)

Thus it is scientifically illogical for one species to morph into another; i.e. for a monkey to evolve into a homo sapien or for a homo sapien to evolve from the branch of a monkey tree.

Ok forget about the missing link, what do you say then of homo erectus or the other proof that has been found of our ancestors with more ape like features? And what of DNA? God made us 98% like monkeys? Why?

Are you sure you really want to go there? So what about the missing 2%? Does that relate to speech or intelligence? Is that God or evolution? My ancestors did not have ape like features. What I know is that scientists/anthropologists find bones of dead apes/chimps and so on and attribute human features to them. Again, how can God make us like monkeys when he made each after its kind? At the creation, God made all the creatures after their kind, EXCEPT man. When it came to us, he said: "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness ..." Genesis 1:26. I can confuffle this whole argument now by stating that Hinduism could make a case for us being like monkeys. Check out Hanuman!

... many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased"[/b] Daniel 12:4

answer my question and leave the eisegesis out.Does that make me an "eisegete"?

You shall live to see even more marvellous discoveries including those on Mars & on the Moon "they" are trying to hide from us.

Who are they? I thought only Jesus talked in parables?

Some information has to be gently released.

[Chimera]

bluefete.... yuh pc wukkin or it down still? ,, i decided i have no more breath to waste on the misguided one megadoc...

you would think God would fix his pc, seeing as hes such a big believer

Well, he certainly did. By finally sending the right person.

So he couldnt send the right person the first time?

For someone all knowing, he doesn't seem to know much.

[sMASH]

yeah mega,
what u quoted there were meant for what muslims regard as the final word of god, the last revelation that is to be made. this should remain unchanged.

the other revelations were also from god, and were also protected. they were all protected/ guarded for the time they were/are required to be in circulation.

the difference is that the previous revelations were only meant for some persons, for a certain time for a specific purpose. after they achieved what they were supposed to, their protection was discontinued. there was then the ability to modify them, or destroy them, or interject into them. the original revelation were not allowed to remain in existence as the successor is to take precedence.
mind u, these peoples are not only those who are from the middle east. revelations, sent through messengers, were sent to all peoples at varying times around the world for varying purposes. so if some one is practicing an aboriginal religion, which have differences with islam, they do not automatically sin. they are following a corruption of a former message and would be judged according to that and basic ethics. when they do encounter islam though, the onus is on them to consider it and compare it to what they already have and make the decision to stay or to upgrade.

all that remains of any of the former revelations are inaccurate copies, recordings of hearsay, retelling of stories, etc. u may say no, but then the first publications of any of them are not available for comparison, the best are unauthenticated scripts from around that time period.

the final revelation is to be protected only for its time period of relevance like its predecessors. but this time period is until the day of judgment.

that was a really good cut and paste that site did, like the literary version of putting words in someone's mouth.

[bluefete]

bluefete.... yuh pc wukkin or it down still? ,, i decided i have no more breath to waste on the misguided one megadoc...

you would think God would fix his pc, seeing as hes such a big believer

Well, he certainly did. By finally sending the right person.

So he couldnt send the right person the first time?

For someone all knowing, he doesn't seem to know much.

Nice try there, ABA. How often does God intervene in the natural world? Most times, he lets things run their natural course.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Science cannot base it's findings on stories like this without factual data and evidence. Science is NOT about belief. And even if you can't wrap your head around that then who's story should the scientists believe?

The one for whom there is "empirical data?"

and where is it?

[Chimera]

bluefete.... yuh pc wukkin or it down still? ,, i decided i have no more breath to waste on the misguided one megadoc...

you would think God would fix his pc, seeing as hes such a big believer

Well, he certainly did. By finally sending the right person.

So he couldnt send the right person the first time?

For someone all knowing, he doesn't seem to know much.

Nice try there, ABA. How often does God intervene in the natural world? Most times, he lets things run their natural course.

but umm...ent he "send the right person the last time"

how come he intervene there? but didn't intervene the first time?

Wouldnt he have saved you time and money, and furthermore, given you the means to preach/rant/talk sheit a lot sooner on the forum if he had sent the right person the first time?


What a fail God

[sMASH]

blue, science is not against religion.

scientists just do stuff that interests them.
ah man like dinosaur so he gone diggin all around the world and dig up dinosaur bones. ah man like electricity, and make light bulb. ah next man like it and make the electric motor.

plenty stuff is just by accident. like the realization of gravity, buoyancy, microwave oven, oil, coffee. etc

even the scientists who were persecuted by the church did not really have any thing against theology, may be the people occupying the positions at the time, and may be how they suppressed free thinking, but not really against religion.

[megadoc1]

yeah mega,
what u quoted there were meant for what muslims regard as the final word of god,so you agreed that it have nothing to do with the bible being corrupted ? the last revelation that is to be made. this should remain unchanged.
the other revelations were also from god, and were also protected. they were all protected/ guarded for the time they were/are required to be in circulation.until muhammad died and they were ordered destroyed

the difference is that the previous revelations were only meant for some persons, for a certain time for a specific purpose. after they achieved what they were supposed to,do you have an idea of what this purpose was? do you have details ? because the previous revelations you speak about are the ones given by Muhammad himself not the ones given by God of the bible their protection was discontinued. there was then the ability to modify them, or destroy them, or interject into them. the original revelation were not allowed to remain in existence as the successor is to take precedence.so they were ordered destroyed after Muhammad died


mind u, these peoples are not only those who are from the middle east. revelations, sent through messengers, were sent to all peoples at varying times around the world for varying purposes. so if some one is practicing an aboriginal religion, which have differences with islam, they do not automatically sin. they are following a corruption of a former message and would be judged according to that and basic ethics. who judges them Islam? I believe you are only talking about former messages of Muhammad that were destroyed after his death
or what about this
None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?" (2:106).


when they do encounter islam though, the onus is on them to consider it and compare it to what they already have and make the decision to stay or to upgrade.so we see this is for Muslims who received the former messages because these verses below states otherwise

"Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful" (Quran 9:5).

"O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people" (Quran 5:51).

so we are sure that you wont speaking of outside Islam or else you are in contradiction to the Qu'ran?


all that remains of any of the former revelations are inaccurate copies, recordings of hearsay, retelling of stories, etc. u may say no, but then the first publications of any of them are not available for comparison, the best are unauthenticated scripts from around that time period. are you talking about former messages from Muhammad that were written on bones of dead carcases?

the final revelation is to be protected only for its time period of relevance like its predecessors. but this time period is until the day of judgment.
how would we know if they got the right one together?

that was a really good cut and paste that site did, like the literary version of putting words in someone's mouth.

smash enough about the Qu'ran, now can you answer this

When Muhammed (570 - 632) was alive, he claimed to receive the revelation of the Qu'ran from Allah. This means that at that time the Bible, which was in existence, could not have been corrupted because the Qu'ran states that God's word cannot be corrupted. The question I have for the Muslims is "When and where was the Bible corrupted, since the Qu'ran says that the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel are from Allah and Allah's words cannot be changed?"

[bluefete]

Science cannot base it's findings on stories like this without factual data and evidence. Science is NOT about belief. And even if you can't wrap your head around that then who's story should the scientists believe?

The one for whom there is "empirical data?"

and where is it?

Right there in front of you! Keep looking, it will jump up and bite you into realization one day.

[bluefete]

So he couldnt send the right person the first time?

For someone all knowing, he doesn't seem to know much.

but umm...ent he "send the right person the last time"

how come he intervene there? but didn't intervene the first time?

Wouldnt he have saved you time and money, and furthermore, given you the means to preach/rant/talk sheit a lot sooner on the forum if he had sent the right person the first time?


What a fail God[/quote]

You are trying so hard but keep failing!!!!

God does not stop events and many times allows things to happen, naturally. Much like Him not zapping you or MG Man or some others on this thread for all the blasphemy they wrote.

We humans are so smart. If God zaps you, He is a vengeful God. If He does not intervene, he is labelled as being incompetent.

At least, we can still make our choices.

"Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin; neither say thou before the angel, that it was an error: wherefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands?" Ecclesiastes 5:6

[megadoc1]

blue, science is not against religion.

scientists just do stuff that interests them.
ah man like dinosaur so he gone diggin all around the world and dig up dinosaur bones. ah man like electricity, and make light bulb. ah next man like it and make the electric motor.

plenty stuff is just by accident. like the realization of gravity, buoyancy, microwave oven, oil, coffee. etc

even the scientists who were persecuted by the church did not really have any thing against theology, may be the people occupying the positions at the time, and may be how they suppressed free thinking, but not really against religion.

sMASH the Qu'ran teaches that a man's sperm comes from his chest but science teaches that
it comes from our testicles which one is true?

[QG]

lol

[megadoc1]

sMASH who was really the first Muslim? you wrote Adam? some say Abraham? Jacob? Moses?
but the Qu'ran says






"And I [Muhammad] am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah in Islam," (39:12). what really going on here?

"When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe." (7:143).

"And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam," (2:132).

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ Muslims believe that ALL people are born Muslim, so Adam was muslim. They believe that the Quran was revealed to Muhammad so he was the first man to learn to pray to Allah, therefore your argument is pointless.

You might think that concept is wack!!! Imagine then how silly it seems to others when you say Eve was made from
a rib

[megadoc1]

who was really the first to believe? Muhammad or moses