The Religion Discussion

[QG]

^ Why did God not destroy Lucifer immediately instead of leaving him to tempt man, God's greatest creation?

also please answer:
http://www.trinituner.com/v3/forums/viewtopic.php?p=4612669#p4612669

Great question there bro, and the answer is simple...GOD FORGIVES!

Duane, why God did not destroy all mankind after their first Sin?

Simple...he Forgives!
And everything happens for a reason.

ah ok I understand.

Couple more questions though.
Don't you have to ask God for forgiveness; seek his forgiveness?

Also why didnt he forgive the entire world of people instead of killing them all in the great flood?
Or why not forgive Adam and Eve of sin and so forgive all of mankind of original sin?

it's rather unusual that satan would be forgiven and still be allowed to have all these powers and yet a new born baby has to bear the terrible burden of original sin that they didnt even commit!

just trying to understand here.

Yes you have to seek God for his Forgiveness BUT, some people are lost too far in sin that God sometimes reaches his buring point!
He knows our hearts and what we are capable of doing, if He sees goodness in an individual, he will give that prson chances to turn their life around.

God gave Adam and Eve a chance to come forward to apologize, but instead hey hid from God. All Adam and Eve had to do was simply say "Father (GOD) we have sinned, please forgive us for disobeying you" and everything would have been back to normal.

My belief is, If Satan surrenders to God and apologize for his betrayal and asks for Forgiveness...I think God would Forgive him.
That's just my belief!

[Chimera]

so wait na, Satan wouldn't qualify as one entity being too far lost in sin to be able to get forgiveness?

I mean..it's SATAN we talking about here you know, he's like....the devil.....

[Chimera]

Yes you have to seek God for his Forgiveness BUT, some people are lost too far in sin that God sometimes reaches his buring point!
He knows our hearts and what we are capable of doing, if He sees goodness in an individual, he will give that prson chances to turn their life around.

Sounds like a sadist .


God dangles free will in front of you.

You choose something that he doesn't agree with.

He casts you out/kills you/condemns you to hell.

You have to beg for his forgiveness.

Then you find out he know you was gonna do that anyway, so it was all part of his plan to MAKE you beg for forgiveness.

[sMASH]

^^ your points above aba, this is where i tend to agree with the non-religions and the atheist about religion to an extent. it some what is meant to keep the sheep in a good path through life wrt the other things/beings encountered throughout life. most people are gullible and fearful so they would do good because of the religion and not because it is just good to do. but either way, they still not committing wrong, or ills against another being.

islam teaches that normal people are born with an innate sense of right and wrong, good and bad.
it teaches that as u grow from birth u may follow the influences as u were brought up with.
as ur intellect develops, it is up to you to determine your path, and u would be judged by the little laws in the faith u choose, with consideration to the basic ethics and morals like dont steal, lie etc.

islam teaches that it is up to the person doing wrong to recognize it and repent for it. according to ur sincerity, which only god will know, u would be forgiven accordingly.
someone else paying for ur sins is unjust, promoting lakadasicallity, and just unnecessary.
u commit the sin, u have the responsibility, u commit the good, u get the benefits.
on the day of judgment, u would be judged according to ur code u lived by, if u considered that code to be worth following( morals/ethics/common sense), your intentions, your deeds, with consideration to the situation u were in at the time.

this seems fair to me, and the other parts which make up this theology were worthy of further investigation.

the alternate version of judgment day seems unnecessary as there are only two outcomes, based on one act:- the declaration of a certain someone being something.
this makes the other actions in ur life, good or bad, right or wrong, sensible or not, some what irrelevant. only one statement is considered.
this makes judgment day unnecessary as it would not have actions fulfilling its name.
*-do u belive this?
-yes
-then u go to heaven
-do u believe this?
-no
-then u go to hell*

god gave us amazing intellects, i doubt he would not judge us according to how we used it
god gave us resources, i doubt he would not judge us according to how we used it
god gave us abilities, i doubt he would not judge us according to how we used it
god gave us neighbors, i doubt he would not judge us according to how we treated them
god gave us flora an fauna, i doubt he would not judge us according to how we managed them

god provided too many things for us to be judged on one totally unrelated statement

a little scenario again
in islam, we learn that we have a responsibility for caring for the environment, and through other teachings we gather that we need to preserve it. we will be judged according to how well we performed at any situation we were in, where the reward is heaven, and punishment is some time in hell.
in this we have a motivation to do good

in the other network now
i think they have authority over the environment, say dat jesus throw a tantrum and destroy de people stalls and litter in front the temple, he cursed a tree for not bearing fruit (or sumting). then the motivation for not preserving the environment is that 'u go to heaven if u believe sumting, and if u dont u go to hell'... there is nothing that statement contains which would suggest to u to preserve the environment. u may get the idea from the teachings to preserve the environment, but still u loose nor gain nothing by destroying the environment or preserving it.

[d spike]

Yes you have to seek God for his Forgiveness BUT, some people are lost too far in sin that God sometimes reaches his buring point!
He knows our hearts and what we are capable of doing, if He sees goodness in an individual, he will give that prson chances to turn their life around.

God gave Adam and Eve a chance to come forward to apologize, but instead hey hid from God. All Adam and Eve had to do was simply say "Father (GOD) we have sinned, please forgive us for disobeying you" and everything would have been back to normal.

My belief is, If Satan surrenders to God and apologize for his betrayal and asks for Forgiveness...I think God would Forgive him.
That's just my belief!

Wow. Serious problems here (whatever "buring point" is)! The misconceptions here (and elsewhere in this thread) regarding Satan/Lucifer are due to a simple misunderstanding of what an angel is, especially where free will is concerned. This same misunderstanding gives rise to the suggestion mentioned last in the quote above.

Angels and men both are given free will at their creation. The difference is the possession of knowledge and ability. Simply put, a man can choose, make a decision, and later change his mind. Many things cause this, and all these things are due to us being creatures of time. An angel is not a creature of time - though created, it does not have a limited existence - and its knowledge is not acquired over time. Therefore it can make a decision (life-changing decision, if you will ) instantly, and not be bound or bonded by time.
Theologians fuss and argue about the angels' creation and decision (both of which no one can possibly know about - apart from the accepted fact that it took place - for obvious reasons) but they all agree that once the boys made up their mind about serving the boss, it was final.
One can only regret if one can say "maybe.." and ol' Hairy Scary is incapable of this. (Note well that in the human condition, this would be seen as a limitation... but for a creature who knows all he will ever know from the instant he was, this is quite logical.)

[d spike]

Sounds like a sadist .

God dangles free will in front of you.

You choose something that he doesn't agree with.

He casts you out/kills you/condemns you to hell.

You have to beg for his forgiveness.

Then you find out he know you was gonna do that anyway, so it was all part of his plan to MAKE you beg for forgiveness.

Sounds cracked, doesn't it? That's because it is. That's fundamentalism for you. Their explanations for everything are severely warped by their attempts to force-fit their beliefs into the box of literal interpretation of whole bible (including the parts that were not meant to be taken literally) and then further attempt to justify why they say what they say... that's where the term "eisegesis" comes from... remarkably enough, one of them used that term to refer to my posts, which, ironically shows the accepted orthodox christian way of thinking...

Their misconcept of judgment results in the view you posted above.

[d spike]

we learn that we have a responsibility for caring for the environment, and through other teachings we gather that we need to preserve it. we will be judged according to how well we performed at any situation we were in, where the reward is heaven, and punishment is some time in hell.

Yuh is a catholic or wha'?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ Why did God not destroy Lucifer immediately instead of leaving him to tempt man, God's greatest creation?

also please answer:
http://www.trinituner.com/v3/forums/viewtopic.php?p=4612669#p4612669

Great question there bro, and the answer is simple...GOD FORGIVES!

Duane, why God did not destroy all mankind after their first Sin?

Simple...he Forgives!
And everything happens for a reason.

ah ok I understand.

Couple more questions though.
Don't you have to ask God for forgiveness; seek his forgiveness?

Also why didnt he forgive the entire world of people instead of killing them all in the great flood?
Or why not forgive Adam and Eve of sin and so forgive all of mankind of original sin?

it's rather unusual that satan would be forgiven and still be allowed to have all these powers and yet a new born baby has to bear the terrible burden of original sin that they didnt even commit!

just trying to understand here.

Yes you have to seek God for his Forgiveness BUT, some people are lost too far in sin that God sometimes reaches his buring point!
He knows our hearts and what we are capable of doing, if He sees goodness in an individual, he will give that prson chances to turn their life around.

God gave Adam and Eve a chance to come forward to apologize, but instead hey hid from God. All Adam and Eve had to do was simply say "Father (GOD) we have sinned, please forgive us for disobeying you" and everything would have been back to normal.

My belief is, If Satan surrenders to God and apologize for his betrayal and asks for Forgiveness...I think God would Forgive him.
That's just my belief!

but you said earlier that God already forgave Satan, that's why he didn't destroy him

[d spike]

A word about "Judgment Day" and God actually judging anything:
We were put here as a people, to achieve something as a people. (One reason why suicide is wrong.) To believe in personal salvation is all well and good, but that cannot be the be-all-and-end-all of your religion... The mantra of "I am saved!" cannot be the focal point of the human relationship with the Creator - this is a very selfish viewpoint. To have a "personal relationship with God" is a good thing, but life holds far more... Life is beautiful, but too short for an individual to achieve God's plan on his own. We each go through life, meeting far too many individuals, to interact fully with each... far too many problems and ills exist for any one of us to deal with - alone. We can run to a "God" for solace, but in every example of this, we are told that the answer lies within us as a people. We are "Christ" to each other - or whatever you want to call it.

We were brought into being - whether created in an instant, or brought into creation over a period of time (evolved?), is neither here nor there - as a race that propagates itself, and hands down knowledge across generations. This has to be for a reason. We are meant to achieve something... something good and wonderful... so wonderful, that everyone will be aware of it and its meaning... and the role the Creator played in all time. This is the plan. Its achievement will be the glory of our race, and to the greater glory of him who made us, and gave us the gifts to achieve. All will realise... "Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess..." (Unfortunately, many people see the end of our time here as cataclysmic - thanks to the apocalyptic idiom used by the Jews - and a sort of 'victory dance' for "us" to do over the defeated "them".)
The world is NOT going to end in a fit of God's anger (his "buring point", perhaps?) and frustration with our inability to do what's right (that would mean the Devil won and God failed, wouldn't it?) but when we succeed in doing our part in the Great Scheme of things/"God's plan".

This "End" or rather, culmination of what we were meant to achieve, is referred to as Judgment Day, even though individuals are obviously not judged at this point. Individual judgment takes place when one's time here is up - and even then, the use of the word "judgment" is a bit misleading. Really and truly, you judge yourself. God doesn't try then sentence you... you did all that already, by the choices (not results!) you made in this life. That is what free will is all about. St. Augustine put it simply, "your love is your weight." What you spent your entire life choosing, is what you will get in the end. If you tried to choose the right way, the way of Goodness and Love, you will go there. If you kept choosing yourself over others, that's what you'll get. Free will means getting to decide whether you finally prefer love of others or love of self. Hell is being utterly alone, away from Love - not a blazing furnace filled with demons and old friends, eternally regretting not bringing extra skin lotion.

Hell is simply a place away from God, created for those who chose it. As we were created to be with our Creator, being apart from him eternally is a horrible punishment... but one that is self-inflicted.

Let it suffice to say that your knowledge of right and wrong is yours to judge your own actions, what is truth for you, what is acceptable for you... not to tell others what to do or believe. They must be allowed to exercise that same gift in their lives - in order for the choice they make to be truly theirs.

[sMASH]

since angel talk come up now, angels do not disobey... they cannot.

[megadoc1]

A word about "Judgment Day" and God actually judging anything:
We were put here as a people, to achieve something as a people. (One reason why suicide is wrong.) To believe in personal salvation is all well and good, but that cannot be the be-all-and-end-all of your religion... The mantra of "I am saved!" cannot be the focal point of the human relationship with the Creator - this is a very selfish viewpoint. To have a "personal relationship with God" is a good thing, but life holds far more... Life is beautiful, but too short for an individual to achieve God's plan on his own. We each go through life, meeting far too many individuals, to interact fully with each... far too many problems and ills exist for any one of us to deal with - alone. We can run to a "God" for solace, but in every example of this, we are told that the answer lies within us as a people. We are "Christ" to each other - or whatever you want to call it.

We were brought into being - whether created in an instant, or brought into creation over a period of time (evolved?), is neither here nor there - as a race that propagates itself, and hands down knowledge across generations. This has to be for a reason. We are meant to achieve something... something good and wonderful... so wonderful, that everyone will be aware of it and its meaning... and the role the Creator played in all time. This is the plan. Its achievement will be the glory of our race, and to the greater glory of him who made us, and gave us the gifts to achieve. All will realise... "Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess..." (Unfortunately, many people see the end of our time here as cataclysmic - thanks to the apocalyptic idiom used by the Jews - and a sort of 'victory dance' for "us" to do over the defeated "them".)
The world is NOT going to end in a fit of God's anger (his "buring point", perhaps?) and frustration with our inability to do what's right (that would mean the Devil won and God failed, wouldn't it?) but when we succeed in doing our part in the Great Scheme of things/"God's plan".

This "End" or rather, culmination of what we were meant to achieve, is referred to as Judgment Day, even though individuals are obviously not judged at this point. Individual judgment takes place when one's time here is up - and even then, the use of the word "judgment" is a bit misleading. Really and truly, you judge yourself. God doesn't try then sentence you... you did all that already, by the choices (not results!) you made in this life. That is what free will is all about. St. Augustine put it simply, "your love is your weight." What you spent your entire life choosing, is what you will get in the end. If you tried to choose the right way, the way of Goodness and Love, you will go there. If you kept choosing yourself over others, that's what you'll get. Free will means getting to decide whether you finally prefer love of others or love of self. Hell is being utterly alone, away from Love - not a blazing furnace filled with demons and old friends, eternally regretting not bringing extra skin lotion.

Hell is simply a place away from God, created for those who chose it. As we were created to be with our Creator, being apart from him eternally is a horrible punishment... but one that is self-inflicted.

Let it suffice to say that your knowledge of right and wrong is yours to judge your own actions, what is truth for you, what is acceptable for you... not to tell others what to do or believe. They must be allowed to exercise that same gift in their lives - in order for the choice they make to be truly theirs.

d spike which god are you talking about
not the one in the Holy bible it have to be something else
you are talking something totally different from what Jesus spoke
are you saying that Jesus lied ?
tell me why should anyone take your words over that of my lord Jesus?
aren't his words clear enough?
or is it that the god you speaking about is that of the convenient one?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

since angel talk come up now, angels do not disobey... they cannot.

then how did Lucifer disobey God?

In Islam, angels do not have free will
In Christianity, angels have free will

[sMASH]

he was not an angel

[16 cycles]

Still want to know where the contract was made to absolve sin using the blood of an innocent person.....

[Chimera]

are you saying that Jesus lied ?
tell me why should anyone take your words over that of my lord Jesus?
aren't his words clear enough?
or is it that the god you speaking about is that of the convenient one?

Funny, but all these comments describe what you are following megadoc1

Unclear rules, convenient God

[d spike]

"O, let us never, never doubt
What no one is sure about!"
- Odgen Nash

since angel talk come up now, angels do not disobey... they cannot.

Smash, from the human perspective, you are quite correct. Angels (the spiritual beings who serve God) are perpetually obedient and loyal to God.
("The experts all tell us so,
about stuff they could hardly know...")
This does not deny that they have free will. You make a choice when you are ready, when you have the knowledge and the awareness of all the aspects of that choice. We will be capable of making such a choice when our time here is over. Angels were capable of making that choice when they were created. They have already made their choice. Those who chose to be apart from God are not usually referred to as angels... but does it really matter what they are called? Evil spirits, demons, little blue men...

[wagonrunner]

he was not an angel

so the term "fallen angel" .................................... ?
just an example.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallen_angel
if you're going to jump in, be armed nah.

[bluefete]

Hi All:

Just passing through after almost 2 weeks.

My computer is still down (almost 2 wks and counting).

I see this thread has crossed 100+ pages. That is not us but God still at work.

I have a lot of new info to post but will do so as soon as my system is working again.

[MG Man]

Hi All:

Just passing through after almost 2 weeks.

My computer is still down (almost 2 wks and counting).

I see this thread has crossed 100+ pages. That is not us but God still at work.

I have a lot of new info to post but will do so as soon as my system is working again.

not really eh
that's my Master, Lu who's keeping this ched going
you and your compadres are the proof that the devil is winning the war against religion cuz you guys have turned off more people than you think you saving

[MG Man]

KITTYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
I know god sculpted your curves

[toyo682]

Something wrong with this? This is why I said on this point I am not dogmatic.

should I take this to mean "on THIS point you are not dogmatic"?correct
or should I take it to mean "AT this point you are not dogmatic"?

cause you seemed pretty dogmatic to me in your previous posts

[d spike]

d spike which god are you talking about
not the one in the Holy bible it have to be something else
you are talking something totally different from what Jesus spoke
What absolute BULL are you on about now? What have I said that goes against "what Jesus spoke"?

are you saying that Jesus lied ?
No, I'm saying you were obviously not paying attention in Sunday School. I'm saying you do not understand a lot of what you parrot off...

tell me why should anyone take your words over that of my lord Jesus?
They're the same thing. It's not MY fault that YOU can't comprehend. Go blame the Education Ministry.

aren't his words clear enough?
Obviously, not clear enough for you.

or is it that the god you speaking about is that of the convenient one?
Your grammar is as acceptable as your logic. Is English your first language?
The only "convenient one" I know of, is the nonsense you spout... you know, the one that allows you to talk utter rot and do worse, for you are without sin; the one that causes you to claim only some of what you say is true, for the rest is deception - yet you claim truth in all you spew. How convenient.

[toyo682]

Still want to know where the contract was made to absolve sin using the blood of an innocent person.....

Let me break it down, it is not a literal contract I was talking about, there is no paper saying anyone soul belongs to the devil.

The Bible tells us that we all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Sin is like a hereditary disease we all will sin at some point. The law of God dictates that the wages or penalty of sin is death, read Genesis 2, God told Adam up front that if he disobeys his command, law what ever you want to call it, the penalty is death. Just like our laws, for instance, the law against driving on the shoulder, which many break every day carries a fix preordained fine or penalty. Now if we are caught driving on the shoulder we are fined, though many feel it is their right to do so, and are often vex with the police when they are caught and fined. It shows us man's moral standards, we often hear from these people “why the police doh go and look for the real criminals. Well guess what you break the law any law that makes you a criminal to. We use this same moral standard when it comes to sin. We often compare ourselves to others, well my sin may just be lying, while my friend is a fornicating thief, so clearly I am not as bad as him. However we fail to realize a sin is a sin in the eyes of God, both the liar and thief will meet the same end. Why? Is this just? We fail also to realize that all sin regardless of what it is, is essentially one thing, rebellion to God. The liar is in rebellion to God since God is a God of truth, and the thief is in rebellion to God since clearly thieving in not something God's righteousness will have him do. They are both guilty of the same crime.

Now God is not a God who can have any part in sin, nor can he have fellowship with those who are sinful. We break this fellowship with God when we commit sin which just comes naturally for us now that Adam sin. How is this fair that we should pay for something we cannot help but do? (I will get to that soon) Now when we break fellowship with God, we enter into fellowship with Satan because just like in the garden he incites us to sin against God often by telling us we will not surely die as he did with Eve. Once we break fellowship with God we step out from under his divine cover and protection, and come under the cover of darkness which is ruled by Satan. Now this is like either living in T&T or USA, which country you live in dictates the rules or laws you follow. Since it is clear Satan is a liar he will tell you one thing and then do another. For instance, he may whisper in you ear (maybe not audible for all smart men) it is okay to fornicate you will not die, then you end up with Aids or some other STD and you blame God and ask why he allow it, the same sin he incited you to commit is the some sin he brings before God to condemn you . The reality is once you are not under the jurisdiction of God he is not obligated to help you. Once you are a sinner you are under the jurisdiction of Satan.

So what does this mean? Does God not love sinners? Not at all. In fact God does love them so much that we are told that Christ died for us while we were yet sinners. Now since the wages of sin is death, then our sins demands that blood must be spilled for our sins to be atoned for. We are told in scripture that without the shedding of blood there will be no remission of sin. Sin demands death. Now in the old testament God gave Moses the law to which the Israel should live by, but although they tried their best they were incapable of keeping the laws of God just as we are. So they had to make sacrifices to atone for their sin. Now this was burden some and also impossible, since every time you sin you would have to make a sacrifice. Could you imagine if we had to do that to day how much money it would cost. Now God all ready knew all of this and even in Genesis 3 God spoke of a redeemer to come. God knew and knows that it is impossible for us to keep his laws or be sinless.

Since the sacrifices for sin had to be spot less and without blemish, or in our terms sinless, God could not allow man to die for sin because lets face it we are sinners. That is like taking a dirty rag to clean a dirty counter, in the end you are just moving the dirt around you are not cleaning any thing. Now since to only person alive who is sinless is God then the only person who could redeem man is God. Now check this. Since man's sin is pass down from the father Adam, Jesus had to come the way he came. Born of a virgin and fathered by God. Now this is how Christ was fully human and fully God. He knew what is is for us and our battle with sin. We are told he was tempted in the same way as us yet he was without sin. But because of his birth no sin was passed to Him.

So what does that mean for us. Well we are told that Christ died so that none should perish but that all should have everlasting life. Now what essentially has taken place is that Christ took our place of death that was demanded by law. So when we come to faith in Christ, God counts his death as our death. Now this is done by faith, we don't have to die. He counts Christ's resurrection as our resurrection. So once we were dead to God in sin,(since God cannot have fellowship with sin we are counted dead in that state) now we are alive in Christ and God takes us back into fellowship.

So what about good works, well that makes the death of Christ foolish if we can pay our own price, but since we cannot, we are not in need of an example but a saviour. Can we bribe God to ignore that fact that we have broken his law, which has been laid out in our heart, that is why we have a conscience. We deep down in side know what is right and wrong, or do you think that the thieves who robbed and killed that guy for the 100k in music did not know that it is wrong to kill. If they are never caught and brought to justice before man, but sell the car and music and build a house for their grandmother who has none, do you think God should let them off the hook in eternity if the price for their sin of murder is not paid although they took the rewards of their crime and did good. Good works theory is like going before a judge and saying, judge I know you are a good man and I know I did rape that woman breaking a law, but on the way here I washed your car and fed two beggars. However I know you are good and loving and would let me off. The judge may say however, you are right about one thing I am a good man and as a result I will see to it that the law and its judgment would be carried out, the very goodness that many appeal to will be the thing that condemns them in the end.

So Christ paid the price we cannot, it is simple have faith, the evidence of such will be good works that all will see, since the gratefulness that you have not receive what you deserve will be extended to others as you give them what they don't deserve. Or you can try and work for it. The love of God is wrapped up in the death of Christ, since it is God himself who paid the price to satisfy his own justice and law, that we many be redeemed and escape everlasting punishment. Bless


My beliefs

[megadoc1]

d spike which god are you talking about
not the one in the Holy bible it have to be something else
you are talking something totally different from what Jesus spoke
What absolute BULL are you on about now? What have I said that goes against "what Jesus spoke"? jesus said
he is the only way to the father,but you
say there are many ways to god,
jesus said
"go into the world preach the gospel he that believeth and be baptized shall be saved"
you said
"Let it suffice to say that your knowledge of right and wrong is yours to judge your own actions, what is truth for you, what is acceptable for you... not to tell others what to do or believe. They must be allowed to exercise that same gift in their lives - in order for the choice they make to be truly theirs".



tell me why should anyone take your words over that of my lord Jesus?
They're the same thing.really?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

I see this thread has crossed 100+ pages. That is not us but God still at work.

HAHAHAHAHA
HOW could that be God's doing if we have free will?

can at least ONE of you be coherent?

BTW welcome back!

[d spike]

jesus said
he is the only way to the father,but you
say there are many ways to god
What I said was:

One of the most important statements of Jesus is "I am the way, the truth and the life, no one can come to the Father except through me."
christians hold onto this statement like a banner at a football match, waving it in the face of non-christians ("we win! we win! we win!") when it actually means something far, far different, far more all-encompassing than the seemingly literal meaning of in-the-name-of Jesus-I-going-heaven stuff (taking scripture literally ALWAYS is a path of head-butting walls and stump-toe... but that's for another time).
Be rational. Jesus ain't no road... and literally going through someone isn't particularly pleasant... so obviously, Jesus was referring to following his teachings about himself - the path he laid out for us, goes to the Father. When we try to look at who Jesus is, he keeps showing us a concept, that of love. "He who loves me, obeys my commandments", "Love one another...", "Whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers, that you do unto me" and so forth.
Therefore, the path to God is through love. Doesn't matter what you call it, where you worship, (if you perform 'communal worship'), what name you call him by...
(Talk about discrimination! You claim he is the God of all men, yet you demand that he only be referred to by one name which came out of one culture among many?)

Do you really think that God, if he exists, bothers about what name you call him, if he loves you? I thought the whole point of monotheism is that there is only one Boss? A name only makes sense to us creatures, as it differentiates one from another. (When Moses asked his name, God put him in his place: "I am who is" - take dat in yuh waist, yuh too dam farse an outta place...)

The point of our existence here may very well be to learn to care for one another... one big, ant farm experiment to prove that love is supreme... In which case, even whether you believe in God or not is not really important - as the movie "Legion" showed, it's far more important that He believes in us... and our ability to love... to pick ourselves up from the mistakes that we make, to heal, to forgive... and to continue, striving in this reality to make the choices that we will be rewarded for in the next, and make this place a better place to live in.

What there goes against "what Jesus spoke"?

"Let it suffice to say that your knowledge of right and wrong is yours to judge your own actions, what is truth for you, what is acceptable for you... not to tell others what to do or believe. They must be allowed to exercise that same gift in their lives - in order for the choice they make to be truly theirs".

What there goes against "what Jesus spoke"? "Judge not..." eh?

[d spike]

Megadoc1,
it isn't my fault that you are not in a position to fully understand what is written between the covers of your bible. One does not wake up one morning, scratch one's nether regions and decide to interpret what the scriptures say. Personal interpretation without proper guidance/training results in a lot of the nonsense found here in this thread - and provides ready ammunition for rational thinkers who do not agree with your choices in life.
And "proper guidance/training" CANNOT be provided by someone who himself was not trained or guided properly.

You claim my "words" are different to those that "Jesus spoke". Well, duh... I don't parrot. Proof of true comprehension is shown when one has internalized the given information, and can then produce it in one's own "words"... the same thing goes for the meaning, the rationale, the concepts behind the words.
You on the other hand, are a parrot, squawking and shrieking a plethora of words you don't fully understand (probably because you were petted and praised for this act wherever it is you learned to perform it).
Someone has failed miserably in preparing you in your faith. Again, I ask, you never took my advice on finding a theologian who follows the same faith as you, and studying his work, did you?
It is quite clear to all who read your posts that you are unable to withstand direct scrutiny. You have yet to give a proper response of your own to anyone here. All you do is fling a set of seemingly/barely relevant scripture up as a post or "lol". You have nothing to offer... like a metronome, all you can do is make a regular noise alongside a proper instrument and fool yourself into thinking you are part of the music.

It is unfortunate that there are creatures like you out there, pretending to know God and foisting your second-hand beliefs that you don't even fully understand (stories and lessons half-heard and badly told) on others, mainly doing this in an attempt to salve your insecurities and low self-esteem, only succeeding in scaring away people from a deeper understanding of reality.

God put us here, to find Him here, among the dregs and clots of life... this is where we are, this is where He is, this is where we are meant to find Him... open your eyes, you freshly whited sepulchre, go back to school, discard your second-hand rantings, open the mind that the good Lord gave you (in the hope that you would use it) and learn this time the ways of He you claim belief in. Cast no stones! Learn to share, live in peace. Then it will be said by all who know you, "That is a christian man" - not by ranting and condemning and rebuking.

[sMASH]

he was not an angel

so the term "fallen angel" .................................... ?
just an example.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallen_angel
if you're going to jump in, be armed nah.

no. iblis was not an angel, not even a fallen angel. angels have no choice beyond what they do to serve god.
iblis was not an angel, he was something else.

[wagonrunner]

he was not an angel

so the term "fallen angel" .................................... ?
just an example.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallen_angel
if you're going to jump in, be armed nah.

no. iblis was not an angel, not even a fallen angel. angels have no choice beyond what they do to serve god.
iblis was not an angel, he was something else.

the first lines of the link, had you read it..............

fallen angel, in Christian theology, is an angel who has been exiled or banished from Heaven. Often such banishment is a punishment for disobeying or rebelling against God (see War in Heaven).
The best-known fallen angel is Lucifer, a name frequently attributed to Satan in Christian belief.

but then, if you attempt to present Christianity, in the terms of Islam, some of the oranges won't be apples.

[toyo682]

14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.[e]

16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but [color=#FF0000]whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed [/color]in the name of God's one and only Son- John 3:14-18

Mr D Spike can you please exposit this passage because to me it seems to be saying that we need to believe in Jesus, and were spoken by him. How should I a line this passage with your form of theology. please do not misunderstand me I am asking a genuine question.