Petrotrin refinery shut down

[elec2020]

^ okay

[sMASH]

^k

[The_Honourable]

Patriotic remains optimistic on refinery bid



Patriotic Energies and Technologies Co Ltd is anxiously awaiting word from Cabinet on whether its bid to operate the Guaracara refinery was successful.

Almost one week ago, the reconstituted evaluation committee would have submitted to Cabinet the review of the proposal Patriotic would have first submitted on October 31.

That proposal was initially rejected by Energy Minister Franklin Khan. In an almost immediate change of heart, the Prime Minister instructed the evaluation committee to take a second look at the proposal and make further comments and recommendations.

The report was handed in to Cabinet on November 30, however, one of Patriotic’s executive members said on Friday they have had no communication on the topic since.

“We have not heard from the Government or the negotiating team,” Richard Lee, one of Patriotic’s directors said.

He said the Oilfield Workers’ Trade Union (OWTU), Patriotic’s parent company, was anticipating that Dr Rowley or Finance Minister Colm Imbert would have made an announcement in the Parliament on Friday.

That did not happen.

“We have done all that was required of us. We are optimistic we will be successful,” Lee said.

Earlier this week, Rowley who was a guest on the CNC3 Morning Brew programme said at that time he had not yet seen Patriotic’s proposal. He said the report would not have come directly to him but to Cabinet, in keeping with the process.

“I am hoping there is something there that we would like to work with, because I too would like to see the refinery started and in the hands of local people," Rowley said.

“If there is no workable and no useable arrangement in that proviso, then we might have to go out.

"I can’t tell you whether they will get it. It is not mine to give, contrary to what the town crier is saying. It is a process the Government is going through."

The refinery, located in Pointe-a-Pierre, along with the former state-owned Petrotrin was shut down in November 2018. The OWTU subsequently offered to make a bid to acquire and operate the refinery and port. It established Patriotic and was successful in the refinery bid from among over 70 expressions of interest.

Source: https://newsday.co.tt/2020/12/06/patrio ... inery-bid/

[sMASH]

mc kamala

[zoom rader]

mc kamala

She is a MC

She closed down Petrotrin and now she dont want to sell it.

This kams is indeed a MC

[sMASH]

mc kamala

She is a MC

She closed down Petrotrin and now she dont want to sell it.

This kams is indeed a MC

and blockin rowley from accepting roget bid.... nasty mc

[De Dragon]

mc kamala

She is a MC

She closed down Petrotrin and now she dont want to sell it.

This kams is indeed a MC

and blockin rowley from accepting roget bid.... nasty mc

Even the most highly educated OJT elec 2020 cyah get 2NR to see that she blocking the sale as Opposition Leader These people stupid enough for a small army!

[ruskie]

Looks like now that there is no oversight on the disposal of public property, petrotrin land going bye bye. It would have anyway., but now they made it easy. Full on 3rd world kleptocracy.

[The_Honourable]

MSJ: Give refinery to Patriotic for Xmas



MOVEMENT for Social Justice (MSJ) leader David Abdulah on Sunday appealed to the Prime Minister to give the country an early Christmas present by giving the green light for Patriotic Energies and Technologies Co Ltd to take control of the former Petrotrin refinery and port at Pointe-a-Pierre.

At a news conference at the party's office in San Fernando, Abdulah said, "I am saying today to Dr Rowley just a few days away from Christmas Day, don't be a scrooge. Don't try to cut off the country's nose to save somebody's face."

He recalled that Rowley originally said a decision on Patriotic's bid to acquire the refinery and port should be made at the end of October, Energy Minister Franklin Khan later said Patriotic's proposal failed to meet certain criteria and an evaluation committee was subsequently formed in November to look at the proposal again.

Abdulah argued that enough time had passed for Government to make a decision on this matter. He opined the only decision which makes sense in this matter is, "for Patriotic to be given the ownership and control of the refinery and the port operations at Pointe-a-Pierre."

Abdulah said Patriotic – which is owned by the Oilfield Workers Trade Union – has already indicated it has sourced US$500 million to undertake the necessary upgrades at the refinery and port to get them operational again. While the restart of the refinery could take nine months to a year, Abdulah said it will provide some hope and light to TT as it would stimulate employment in certain sectors of the economy.

He also said it could help TT with some of its foreign exchange challenges which Abdulah said Finance Minister Colm Imbert highlighted at a news conference last Friday and which he (Imbert) added could get more difficult.

Source: https://newsday.co.tt/2020/12/20/msj-gi ... -for-xmas/

[zoom rader]

^^^^ What a bunch of Jack Arses

[sMASH]

kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala kamala
wait jess now, they didnt blame kamala this time?

what part she has to play in this, again?

[viedcht]

Abdullah need to hush he rashy muddrz Kaunttttt and go ride ah ttec pole. Waste ah break

[Habit7]

At the end of 2020, who can doubt that it wasn't a brilliant idea to shut down the refinery and sell it off.

Petrotrin facing perfect storm


Fri Nov 28 2014

The Government has some very difficult decisions to make. If it does nothing as a result of political expediency and its fear of the union's reaction, Petrotrin faces a slow death during which it could be a huge burden on taxpayers.

This week's news that state-owned Petrotrin has suffered a loss of $346 million is an indication that the company has found itself between a huge rock and a very hard place.The huge rock includes the fact that the company is significantly overstaffed, with 5,000 employees, and faces an aggressive and sometimes unreasonable trade union that believes the company's sole responsibility is to its highly paid workforce.

Adding to the financial burdens is the fact that Petrotrin pays annual interest of $850 million on its debts, much of which was borrowed to fund the gasoline optimisation programme. That programme, massively over budget and significantly delayed, is proving to be a millstone, because gasoline has been selling at less than the cost of a barrel of crude.Much of the expenditure was made on plants that have had to be mothballed because of prevailing market conditions, which means that Petrotrin is paying 9.75 per cent interest on plant and equipment that is currently unproductive.

The closure of several plants has led to a reduction in refinery throughput from 180,000 barrels of oil per day to 120,000 barrels. This 30 per cent reduction hurt the company's top line, but the expectation was that Petrotrin's exploration and production would take up that slack.


The very hard place the company now finds itself in is due to the fact that its crude exports–long touted as its one bright spot–earn over 30 per cent less today than they did in June; four months after the cat cracker plant was closed.Petrotrin faces the perfect storm of financial, operational and market misfortune and mismanagement–reversal of which will be a herculean task, requiring huge investments of time, personnel and other resources.

The company must give priority to upgrading its ageing infrastructure and must wipe out operational inefficiencies which have caused it to fall far behind its local and international competitors in energy.It may also be time to wean it off the high level of government influence that has overshadowed its operations over the years.

A better business model is urgently needed as the energy company's complete dependence on supply and demand, as well as the market prices of crude oil and refined products, makes it particularly vulnerable to global shocks.

Some experts think the the upstream portion of Petrotrin's operations could be profitable if it operated on its own. There have been recommendations in the past to divide the company into different entities, such as a Trinmar business unit, an upstream land business unit and a refining business unit. It may be time to give this serious consideration, since it is painfully clear that Petrotrin is a failing entity.

But upgrading the company's ageing infrastructure requires billions of US dollars of new capital investment, far more than it could fund internally or raise on international capital markets, because of its highly leveraged balance sheet.

And Petrotrin could easily become a drain on taxpayer resources as the company calls on its 100 per cent shareholder for cash infusions to pay workers and keep production ticking over.

The Government has some very difficult decisions to make. If it does nothing as a result of political expediency and its fear of the union's reaction, Petrotrin faces a slow death during which it could be a huge burden on taxpayers.

Needing to raise capital and improve productivity, the Government may wish to consider a TSTT-like separation programme, even as it explores the possibility of selling a majority stake in the company to a foreign partner with pockets deep enough to fund Petrotrin's capital expenditure needs.

https://www.guardian.co.tt/article-6.2. ... 5f33f4caad

[zoom rader]

At the end of 2020, who can doubt that it wasn't a brilliant idea to shut down the refinery and sell it off.

Petrotrin facing perfect storm


Fri Nov 28 2014

The Government has some very difficult decisions to make. If it does nothing as a result of political expediency and its fear of the union's reaction, Petrotrin faces a slow death during which it could be a huge burden on taxpayers.

This week's news that state-owned Petrotrin has suffered a loss of $346 million is an indication that the company has found itself between a huge rock and a very hard place.The huge rock includes the fact that the company is significantly overstaffed, with 5,000 employees, and faces an aggressive and sometimes unreasonable trade union that believes the company's sole responsibility is to its highly paid workforce.

Adding to the financial burdens is the fact that Petrotrin pays annual interest of $850 million on its debts, much of which was borrowed to fund the gasoline optimisation programme. That programme, massively over budget and significantly delayed, is proving to be a millstone, because gasoline has been selling at less than the cost of a barrel of crude.Much of the expenditure was made on plants that have had to be mothballed because of prevailing market conditions, which means that Petrotrin is paying 9.75 per cent interest on plant and equipment that is currently unproductive.

The closure of several plants has led to a reduction in refinery throughput from 180,000 barrels of oil per day to 120,000 barrels. This 30 per cent reduction hurt the company's top line, but the expectation was that Petrotrin's exploration and production would take up that slack.


The very hard place the company now finds itself in is due to the fact that its crude exports–long touted as its one bright spot–earn over 30 per cent less today than they did in June; four months after the cat cracker plant was closed.Petrotrin faces the perfect storm of financial, operational and market misfortune and mismanagement–reversal of which will be a herculean task, requiring huge investments of time, personnel and other resources.

The company must give priority to upgrading its ageing infrastructure and must wipe out operational inefficiencies which have caused it to fall far behind its local and international competitors in energy.It may also be time to wean it off the high level of government influence that has overshadowed its operations over the years.

A better business model is urgently needed as the energy company's complete dependence on supply and demand, as well as the market prices of crude oil and refined products, makes it particularly vulnerable to global shocks.

Some experts think the the upstream portion of Petrotrin's operations could be profitable if it operated on its own. There have been recommendations in the past to divide the company into different entities, such as a Trinmar business unit, an upstream land business unit and a refining business unit. It may be time to give this serious consideration, since it is painfully clear that Petrotrin is a failing entity.

But upgrading the company's ageing infrastructure requires billions of US dollars of new capital investment, far more than it could fund internally or raise on international capital markets, because of its highly leveraged balance sheet.

And Petrotrin could easily become a drain on taxpayer resources as the company calls on its 100 per cent shareholder for cash infusions to pay workers and keep production ticking over.

The Government has some very difficult decisions to make. If it does nothing as a result of political expediency and its fear of the union's reaction, Petrotrin faces a slow death during which it could be a huge burden on taxpayers.

Needing to raise capital and improve productivity, the Government may wish to consider a TSTT-like separation programme, even as it explores the possibility of selling a majority stake in the company to a foreign partner with pockets deep enough to fund Petrotrin's capital expenditure needs.

https://www.guardian.co.tt/article-6.2. ... 5f33f4caad

Yup was just an idea in 2014

but who shut in down with 3 billions barrels of oil still remaining ?

You and the red Goverment are bigger kants than expected

[Redman]

Seems that it more profitable to produce and sell the oil into the market.

Is it that 3b bbls worth more without the refinery.?

[zoom rader]

Seems that it more profitable to produce and sell the oil into the market.

Is it that 3b bbls worth more without the refinery.?

Goverment does not sell crude oil.

They collect Royalties and cooperate taxes pumped from the ground.

They inturn have to buy oil from the lease holders that the pump crude oil.

Once they buy oil then it is refined for down stream products. Oils , fuels, grease ect

Goverment did own two refineries where they brought crude oil and had it refined.

If they could not make money then they had a management and sales problem.

But kams to blame

[Habit7]

Yup was just an idea in 2014

but who shut in down with 3 billions barrels of oil still remaining ?

You and the red Goverment are bigger kants than expected

I guess you referring to our oil reserves. We don't need a refinery to monetise that. While under Petrotrin we did not sell crude, under Heritage Petroleum we are selling crude and raking in huge profits. If someone wants to shake the dice and buy PaP they could buy our local crude too.

But in this market of low price and low demand, only the largest, most integrated and most efficient refineries are making slim margins or breaking even. Time has proven that it was the right decision for the taxpayer of T&T to close PaP and sell it off.

[zoom rader]

Yup was just an idea in 2014

but who shut in down with 3 billions barrels of oil still remaining ?

You and the red Goverment are bigger kants than expected

I guess you referring to our oil reserves. We don't need a refinery to monetise that. While under Petrotrin we did not sell crude, under Heritage Petroleum we are selling crude and raking in huge profits. If someone wants to shake the dice and buy PaP they could buy our local crude too.

But in this market of low price and low demand, only the largest, most integrated and most efficient refineries are making slim margins or breaking even. Time has proven that it was the right decision for the taxpayer of T&T to close PaP and sell it off.

Seems that it more profitable to produce and sell the oil into the market.

Is it that 3b bbls worth more without the refinery.?

Goverment does not sell crude oil.

They collect Royalties and cooperate taxes pumped from the ground.

They inturn have to buy oil from the lease holders that the pump crude oil.

Once they buy oil then it is refined for down stream products. Oils , fuels, grease ect

Goverment did own two refineries where they brought crude oil and had it refined.

If they could not make money then they had a management and sales problem.

But kams to blame

[Redman]

Petrotrin sold crude and imported oil for refining purposes.

Their accounts and the MoE consolidated reports say so.

Heritage will continue selling oil locally produced, and in some cases trade where profitable.

While some producers are allowed to sell their production direct to market...other licenses pay the operator to bring oil to surface and to the fiscalization point.

Ie TheGoRTT owns the oil produced.

Heritage will do the same.

[daxt0r]

My only wish they do the same with URP and CEPEP too. Filled with too many unproductive folks and skews unemployment figures. Get rid of those two and force them to battle it out with the venes in the low skilled worker open market and get them contributing to the economy.
Surely PT can't be the only waste of tax payer funds.

[sMASH]

selling direct to the market is like the opposite of adding value.

i fail to see why the hesitance of the govt to sell the refinery, if they know it will not be profitable, so much so they dont want it. how can someone else run it better than they can themselves? is it only the salaries that was keeping it unprofitable?

profitable or not, all the forex that the refinery would generate will be repatriated elsewhere. and what ever lil value it had while it was online before, would be lost.

petrotrin in its last days wasnt useful for the profitability, it was useful for the forex it got us.

[Habit7]

If we were using forex to buy feed stock for the refinery and the product was selling at a loss, how is that generating forex?

We are producing approximately 40,000 barrels of oil a day and the refinery operates at a capacity of 140,000 barrels a day, so we have to go to the market to buy about 100,000 barrels of oil to make up the shortfall. This results in a net loss in foreign exchange.
http://www.news.gov.tt/content/petrotri ... -ErbYEXaf0

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

If we were using forex to buy feed stock for the refinery and the product was selling at a loss, how is that generating forex?

We are producing approximately 40,000 barrels of oil a day and the refinery operates at a capacity of 140,000 barrels a day, so we have to go to the market to buy about 100,000 barrels of oil to make up the shortfall. This results in a net loss in foreign exchange.
http://www.news.gov.tt/content/petrotri ... -ErbYEXaf0

Simple answer is we were not selling the product at a loss. Don’t forget the politics involved in selling the idea to the population. Current actions prove that not all that was said when shutting down was correct else no one would want to operate the refinery.

[Habit7]

If we were using forex to buy feed stock for the refinery and the product was selling at a loss, how is that generating forex?

We are producing approximately 40,000 barrels of oil a day and the refinery operates at a capacity of 140,000 barrels a day, so we have to go to the market to buy about 100,000 barrels of oil to make up the shortfall. This results in a net loss in foreign exchange.
http://www.news.gov.tt/content/petrotri ... -ErbYEXaf0

Simple answer is we were not selling the product at a loss. Don’t forget the politics involved in selling the idea to the population. Current actions prove that not all that was said when shutting down was correct else no one would want to operate the refinery.

I expected a comment like this from Zoom.

Do you have any proof what you are saying is true or is it a speculation. Did those same factors close down refineries in Curaçao and US Virgin Islands? Did those factors close down refineries around the world?

[Redman]

Properly run the refinery should have been a decent business.

Successive govts gave concessions to the union and bobol.

It is not one thing,one govt, one decision that made it bad.

It's years of bad management practices by all.

We see where years ago wasa and petrotrin needed fixing but successive govts failed to make the tough call.

Do we need it?

Selling oil nets the country WTI less what is paid to producers....which would be about 50% of WTI.

All in USD.

We need to produce that 3-5B bbls....and sell it's ass while our crude is attractive on the international market s

[zoom rader]

If we were using forex to buy feed stock for the refinery and the product was selling at a loss, how is that generating forex?

We are producing approximately 40,000 barrels of oil a day and the refinery operates at a capacity of 140,000 barrels a day, so we have to go to the market to buy about 100,000 barrels of oil to make up the shortfall. This results in a net loss in foreign exchange.
http://www.news.gov.tt/content/petrotri ... -ErbYEXaf0

Simple answer is we were not selling the product at a loss. Don’t forget the politics involved in selling the idea to the population. Current actions prove that not all that was said when shutting down was correct else no one would want to operate the refinery.

I expected a comment like this from Zoom.

Do you have any proof what you are saying is true or is it a speculation. Did those same factors close down refineries in Curaçao and US Virgin Islands? Did those factors close down refineries around the world?

Kant

Curacao and st Thomas have no oil wells. They have to import oil at a great cost. That's one reason why they shut it down.

Plus Shell has other fields that was more importatnt than the South American operations.

However Trinidad has 3 billions of the stuff that pours in peoples back yard.

Trinidad owned oil refineries was a management and sales problem.

But like anything else Kams to blame from dutty kants like you that spread mis leading fictitious information.

[zoom rader]

Properly run the refinery should have been a decent business.

Successive govts gave concessions to the union and bobol.

It is not one thing,one govt, one decision that made it bad.

It's years of bad management practices by all.

We see where years ago wasa and petrotrin needed fixing but successive govts failed to make the tough call.

Do we need it?

Selling oil nets the country WTI less what is paid to producers....which would be about 50% of WTI.

All in USD.

We need to produce that 3-5B bbls....and sell it's ass while our crude is attractive on the international market s

NAR had one term

UNC had 2.1 terms and you expect them to do change management in that short time?

The red Goverment has had 9 terms.

You can't put red Goverment people to run a bussiness , it's not in their DNA.

[Habit7]

The Point a Pierre refinery failed before. It was configured to make fuel oil which was good for WWII, ships and power plants. But the world shifted away from that and it failed in 1985. The then govt breathed new life and capital in it reconfigured it. But factors like T&T's declining local production, oil price fall in 2014, oil glut and others, excluding the local politics, put the nails in the coffin for the refinery.

Even if PaP had gotten a $1b injection in 2018, 2020 with little product demand and low prices would have found it in the red again.

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

If we were using forex to buy feed stock for the refinery and the product was selling at a loss, how is that generating forex?

We are producing approximately 40,000 barrels of oil a day and the refinery operates at a capacity of 140,000 barrels a day, so we have to go to the market to buy about 100,000 barrels of oil to make up the shortfall. This results in a net loss in foreign exchange.
http://www.news.gov.tt/content/petrotri ... -ErbYEXaf0

Simple answer is we were not selling the product at a loss. Don’t forget the politics involved in selling the idea to the population. Current actions prove that not all that was said when shutting down was correct else no one would want to operate the refinery.

I expected a comment like this from Zoom.

Do you have any proof what you are saying is true or is it a speculation. Did those same factors close down refineries in Curaçao and US Virgin Islands? Did those factors close down refineries around the world?

I can’t post the internal company docs if that is what you want to see. You don’t ask the government for figures either when they make claims Im sure. Restructuring had to do with that looming bullet payment for the 2009 loan not supposedly selling products at a loss. If products sold at a loss then what has improved in the market now to fast track the sale of the refinery? Wage bill alone doesn’t account for it.

[Habit7]

If we were using forex to buy feed stock for the refinery and the product was selling at a loss, how is that generating forex?

We are producing approximately 40,000 barrels of oil a day and the refinery operates at a capacity of 140,000 barrels a day, so we have to go to the market to buy about 100,000 barrels of oil to make up the shortfall. This results in a net loss in foreign exchange.
http://www.news.gov.tt/content/petrotri ... -ErbYEXaf0

Simple answer is we were not selling the product at a loss. Don’t forget the politics involved in selling the idea to the population. Current actions prove that not all that was said when shutting down was correct else no one would want to operate the refinery.

I expected a comment like this from Zoom.

Do you have any proof what you are saying is true or is it a speculation. Did those same factors close down refineries in Curaçao and US Virgin Islands? Did those factors close down refineries around the world?

Kant

Curacao and st Thomas have no oil wells. They have to import oil at a great cost. That's one reason why they shut it down.

Plus Shell has other fields that was more importatnt than the South American operations.

However Trinidad has 3 billions of the stuff that pours in peoples back yard.

Trinidad owned oil refineries was a management and sales problem.

But like anything else Kams to blame from dutty kants like you that spread mis leading fictitious information.

Whether we have oil wells or not, we still have to import 100k barrels of oil everyday much like Curaçao and St Croix. 3 billion barrels in reserves and the capacity to bring it into production is a lot of work. But the last time T&T saw that kind of local production sufficient for the refinery was in the 80s and 90s.