.::The Official General Election 2015 Thread::.

[zoom rader]

Redman I kinda have to admit that what you are saying is a pipe dream.

The idea that people of disparate political views can sit together and formulate a cohesive national policy is not possible.

An "apolitical entity" normally takes the form of an autocracy. However in our democracy the different political views have to compete to sell their idea of governance. In our 'wine and jam' society ppl arent too interested in the nitty gritty of governance, they just want their services to work, their taxes to be low and their salaries high. Thus all political parties promise to deliver those to varying degrees. When a political party tries to tweek the nitty gritty, the opposition raises an alarm and claims an ulterior motive which may or may not be true and it can draw the public ire.

T&T needs a political party to sell us a plan, we all buy into that plan, successive govts improve upon but not fundamentally change that plan, and we constantly measure how well we are following the plan.

Currently the PP's "Growth Poles" plan is indistinct and is punctuated by unsustainable infrastructure development. The PNM "Vision 2020/2030" is clear but not bought in by everybody because it originates in the PNM and has been caricatured as "tall buildings in POS."

Adversarial politics is here for a while, just buckle up and hold your politicians accountable.

The public will not buy into 2020 because it caters for PNM ppl and not the majority of citizens. It's an illusion

[zoom rader]

Realise that anytime the discussion takes a positive turn, the UNC supporters have no contribution. Only when it goes down on the gutter they most active

You idea of a positive turn is one that supports PNM ills.

[rfari]

Big men having a discussion boy. Fall back

[Habit7]

The idea that people of disparate political views can sit together and formulate a cohesive national policy is not possible.

Why not?

What is the Political philosophy that that separates the PNM and UNC?....

Fundamentally not much.

But their interest groups differ. PNM being the East/West Corridor and certain areas in South and UNC having Central and certain areas in South. Ethnic and religious affiliations. Tobago. Unions. Foreign policy, especially with PNM have a significant support base of Eastern Caribbean descendants.

To formulate policy that would satisfy both entities' views on those interest groups would not be possible. It requires compromise.

Should we urbanise South or industrialise it?
Should our laws reflect our colonial Judeo-Christian inspiration or our eastern heritage?
Should Tobago be subservient to Trinidad or set free?
Should unions be suppressed or dictate our labour policy?
Should we assist our regional market or should take our chances on the big sea?

Whoever compromises cant help but feel slighted, then they form a political action group, which forms a party, which challenges the status quo and we start all over again with the adversarial politics.

We cant escape it.

[zoom rader]

Big men having a discussion boy. Fall back

Rfari what exactly is 2020 vision and who does it benefit .
Why did the public not buy into it

[eliteauto]

lol I like how when ZR has no point he asks questions like he knows, but really he's hoping someone will give him an answer that he can spew his anti-PNM vitriol on. ZR your purpose is to oppose for opposing sake plain talk, same way you bash Caricom nationals but when Rfari said it you ran to their defence, you bring nothing to the table so fall back

[zoom rader]

lol I like how when ZR has no point he asks questions like he knows, but really he's hoping someone will give him an answer that he can spew his anti-PNM vitriol on. ZR your purpose is to oppose for opposing sake plain talk, same way you bash Caricom nationals but when Rfari said it you ran to their defence, you bring nothing to the table so fall back

Go back and read my positive replies on this chead.
How many times have you opposed the PNM vs the PP.
Every idea brought forward here must be reviewed for any weakness. PNM ideas have to be reviewed with a fine teeth comb for any flaws. The public needs to know the pros and cons.

As for caricom nationals, yes I bash illegal caricom nationals coming here to hide and work and so should you. They are law breakers or do you support these ppl.

[K74T]

Premchand Brathwaite
Kwame Ramnanansingh

seems legit.

[rfari]

ZR. You killing the debate boy.

[zoom rader]

ZR. You killing the debate boy.

It's a one sided debate, a debate must have pros and cons.

[rfari]

ZR. You killing the debate boy.

It's a one sided debate, a debate must have pros and cons.

Follow the debate boy. Its not a pnm vs UNC talk however I will be sure to alert you when the rum and roti session has started.

[j.o.e]

Yall confusing ZR his default mode is anti-PNM..spicy or original? ..anti-PNM, automatic or manual? Anti-PNM.... boobs or ass? Anti-PNM

Please keep it simple so he can participate

[zoom rader]

ZR. You killing the debate boy.

It's a one sided debate, a debate must have pros and cons.

Follow the debate boy. Its not a pnm vs UNC talk however I will be sure to alert you when the rum and roti session has started.

The only person in the last few post giving any positives is Redman, you and Habit7, eliteauto pushing a PNM agenda.

[rfari]

ZR. You killing the debate boy.

It's a one sided debate, a debate must have pros and cons.

Follow the debate boy. Its not a pnm vs UNC talk however I will be sure to alert you when the rum and roti session has started.

The only person in the last few post giving any positives is Redman, you and Habit7, eliteauto pushing a PNM agenda.

OK ZR. Hear what. UNC is better than pnm forever and will be in govt forever. You win.
Can we move on now?

[UML]

He is alleging that the group claiming to be PP affiliated? He said she said?

Isn't the current guild politically affiliated with the PNM moreso coming from a small islander, supporting the PPG?

So he doesn't know "Marsha"? Never see her before and get a laptop? Afraid that a cellphone could be traced and not a laptop?



So all this interaction with "Marsha" on who to attack, when to attack, what to attack AND he doesn't know the person conveniently?:-|

So the blog went underground Sunday when the story broke?

Emailgate 3?

[Slartibartfast]

He was affiliated with the party that was giving him money. Btw, what point are you trying to make? That the PP doesn't pay blogger to spread propaganda for them? Are you forgetting what happened on Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:08 pm?

[dougla_boy]

i lost...was emailgate 2?

[Habit7]

Are you forgetting what happened on Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:08 pm?

???

[Slartibartfast]

Are you forgetting what happened on Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:08 pm?

???

Look under his profile pic

[Redman]

Fundamentally not much.

Exactly-if the 2 main groups fundamentally have little difference then it cant be that hard to have a united vision of where the COUNTRY has to go.

But their interest groups differ. PNM being the East/West Corridor and certain areas in South and UNC having Central and certain areas in South. Ethnic and religious affiliations. Tobago. Unions. Foreign policy, especially with PNM have a significant support base of Eastern Caribbean descendants.

Im interpreting what you said to mean that everyone seeks their own interest.
And (not BUT) Im saying that we are all intelligent enough to see what the country needs.
In the odd times that the two are mutually exclusive we will have to compromise.

To formulate policy that would satisfy both entities' views on those interest groups would not be possible. It requires compromise.

Should we urbanise South or industrialise it?
Should our laws reflect our colonial Judeo-Christian inspiration or our eastern heritage?
Should Tobago be subservient to Trinidad or set free?
Should unions be suppressed or dictate our labour policy?
Should we assist our regional market or should take our chances on the big sea?

Whoever compromises cant help but feel slighted, then they form a political action group, which forms a party, which challenges the status quo and we start all over again with the adversarial politics.

Well thats the thing.
A properly communicated vision of where we can go means that people will understand or be given the opportunity to understand the rationale behind the decisions.
So I am able to go to a website and access the inputs into the decisions that affect my life.
I would have been able to contribute to the decision before hand and be better informed than i am under the present conditions.

People want to be a part of a successful country-Brazil made massive changes in the 70-00 as has much of the third world...there are blue prints for changing the country's direction...again we just need to go out there and grab what info we want.

We cant escape it.

Yes we can...unless we as a PEOPLE /COUNTRY/SOCIETY decide not to

[UML]

Sampson Nanton the politician?






Interesting

[K74T]

Dianne looking real good boy, always knew the PNM had a penchant for exquisite Indian women.

[rfari]

UML, quick question.
What was debated in the parliament today?

[Habit7]

UML, quick question.
What was debated in the parliament today?

"Kamla all the way" *points to his yellow jersey*

Well thats the thing.
A properly communicated vision of where we can go means that people will understand or be given the opportunity to understand the rationale behind the decisions.
So I am able to go to a website and access the inputs into the decisions that affect my life.
I would have been able to contribute to the decision before hand and be better informed than i am under the present conditions.

People want to be a part of a successful country-Brazil made massive changes in the 70-00 as has much of the third world...there are blue prints for changing the country's direction...again we just need to go out there and grab what info we want.

Properly communicated vision equates to "wait industrialization and smelter in my backyard! No vote for you!" Or "Giving Chaguaramas lands to developers! No it belongs to squatting farmers, no vote for you!" No vision will satisfy everybody, no matter how sincere. It takes one vision with one dominant party to push it over and above all dissenters.

Actually your Brazil example makes my point. Brazil was under a military dictatorship from 1964 to 1985. That allowed for an unchallenged vision that would be hard but not impossible to do with democracy.

We cant escape it.

Yes we can...unless we as a PEOPLE /COUNTRY/SOCIETY decide not to

And we can't escape it because our governance system was designed to have an 'us against them' to have a ruling 'us' to be kept in check by an opposing 'them'.

No political unity.

[zoom rader]

^^^^ The UK is doing fine with their governance system . It has worked for them with. Their elections is in a few weeks.

Trini is still sorting out its problems. The political mind is getting wiser everyday. Citizens are going over very detail and action of government. They are not taking nothing for granted anymore.

The media has played a part in getting ppl to think differently and react. When media publishes mis-truths the public questions it. The media it's self does damage to opposition parties in this present day. Think about it, the media prints mis truths and the opposition ends up taking the blame and looks negative.

[Habit7]

What major "mistruth" the media pushed that the wise public questioned?

[Redman]

Actually your Brazil example makes my point. Brazil was under a military dictatorship from 1964 to 1985. That allowed for an unchallenged vision that would be hard but not impossible to do with democracy.

Yep and thats why I chose the time frame-they were a mess. They excelled over the last 2 decades...look how far they have come-with a massive population.

Why cant we?

A think tank in the way Ive described is essentially what the cabinet does now-set the direction of the country..

I just think that the CABINET/Think Tank that is steering the country should be:

The brightest and best that we have to offer;
Motivated by national interest
Well and transparently compensated
Apolitical as possible.

And again-a push from a body that knows what we CAN do with the resources we have, that communicates this to the public will change the expectations of the public.
THat change in expectations is what will change this amorphous entity called politics.
We need to stop pointing to it as a reason not to take action.

Let me ask a question..
What is preventing us from using a reverse auction system for public procurement??
Srs Question

[UML]

[Habit7]

1428590663033.jpg

Ministry of Tertiary Education and Skills Training Administrative Complex suppose to be finished Dec 2014 http://www.news.gov.tt/content/minister ... SaW7VaCOK0

Motor Vehicle Authority (MVA) supposed to be finished Sept 2014 http://www.guardian.co.tt/news/2014-06- ... -september

UWI Debe supposed to be finished Aug 2014 http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/UWI ... 00251.html

The Point Fortin Hway is $2 billion over budget.

UML plz try again.

[Dizzy28]

1428590663033.jpg

When the PP contains the UNC as a major member of its team and they gave this country the new Piarco Airport and its associated scandals and overruns, I find this statement to be spurious at best.