The Religion Discussion

[sMASH]

Great question there bro, and the answer is simple...GOD FORGIVES!

Duane, why God did not destroy all mankind after their first Sin?

Simple...he Forgives!
And everything happens for a reason.

uhhh,, wrt that, islam teaches that both adam and eve asked for forgiveness after they realized their mistake, and god forgave them,,,,,, equally( eve was not punished more, like what christianity teaches). if u do sumting wrong, u ask for forgiveness and try not to do it again,, what so hard in that? islam teaches that god made it simple for us.

[megadoc1]

I don't think you are honestly looking for answers

Well, seeing as how you admit to not giving honest answers... what's the problem?

^ how is it my point of view that YOU said "now look how I see it"?
you said it, not me

I said a lot of things but if you want to hold on to that one to be comfortable ,fix up

I am saying that you choose certain statements I make to deceive yourselves

So... there are certain statements you made that we shouldn't accept, as we would be deceiving ourselves if we did

(By the way, Megadoc, nice duck/dodge there... keep it up )

yea exactly

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

megadoc1 feel free to answer my questions, don't give all the work to QG

I don't think you are honestly looking for answers

that's also your opinion
do you have an answer though?

[d spike]

megadoc1 feel free to answer my questions, don't give all the work to QG

I don't think you are honestly looking for answers

that's also your opinion
do you have an answer though?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

guess I'll have to ask it again

^ Why did God not destroy Lucifer immediately instead of leaving him to tempt man, God's greatest creation?

also please answer:
http://www.trinituner.com/v3/forums/viewtopic.php?p=4612669#p4612669

Great question there bro, and the answer is simple...GOD FORGIVES!

Duane, why God did not destroy all mankind after their first Sin?

Simple...he Forgives!
And everything happens for a reason.

ah ok I understand.

Couple more questions though.
Did Satan ask for forgiveness?
Don't you have to ask God for forgiveness; seek his forgiveness?
If Satan was forgiven why then Revelation 20:10?

Also why didnt God forgive the entire world of people instead of killing them all in the great flood?
Or why not forgive Adam and Eve of sin and so forgive all of mankind of original sin?

I am confused as to why satan would be forgiven by God and still be allowed to have all these powers and yet a new born baby has to bear the terrible burden of original sin that they didnt even commit!

just trying to understand here.

[sMASH]

megadoc1 feel free to answer my questions, don't give all the work to QG

I don't think you are honestly looking for answers

i dont think what u speak of makes sense, that is why u cant think rationally

[toyo682]

guess I'll have to ask it again

^ Why did God not destroy Lucifer immediately instead of leaving him to tempt man, God's greatest creation?

also please answer:
http://www.trinituner.com/v3/forums/viewtopic.php?p=4612669#p4612669

Great question there bro, and the answer is simple...GOD FORGIVES!

Duane, why God did not destroy all mankind after their first Sin?

Simple...he Forgives!
And everything happens for a reason.

ah ok I understand.

Couple more questions though.
Did Satan ask for forgiveness?Nope, nor will he ever, his sin is pride...
Don't you have to ask God for forgiveness; seek his forgiveness?Yes we do, while the Bible does tell us that Christ paid the price once and for all for our sins, it is not automatically imputed to us. Think of it this way, if it was then it would mean the murders, rapist, child molesters etc, would get a free ride to heaven.
If Satan was forgiven why then Revelation 20:10?general misconception of man is the forgiveness is for the one being forgiven, but rather it is for the benefit of the person doing the forgiving. think of it this way many of us have been wronged in life at some point, we can sit there an fume about the wrong that was done to us, while the person who has wronged us goes on their merry way enjoying their life while you are in mental bondage, stressing and getting sick. Or you can forgive them, go on your merry way as they go theirs. Unforgiveness is like drinking poison hoping the some else would die...but unfortunately for many of us we are only willing to forgive when the person changes. God forgiveness of Satan does not change who Satan is.

Also why didnt God forgive the entire world of people instead of killing them all in the great flood?

The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time.
The Holy Bible : Today's New International Version. 2005 (Ge 6:5). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.

Man was so wicked that they did not even care about God, even to the point where they would not ask forgiveness if that was all that was required.

Or why not forgive Adam and Eve of sin and so forgive all of mankind of original sin?
The breaking of a law demands a penalty stated in the law. If you look carefully at the command God had given the consequence of breaking it was death, not only physically but spiritually as well. That is why we are now spiritually dead to the things of God. Just as we have civil laws that have mandated penalties God's laws also have penalties as well, the ultimate being eternal separation from God. It does sound harsh but we often forget that apart from God being loving he is righteous and just. If we break a civil law, and stand before a judge, does the fact that he punish us to the full extent as demanded by the law make the judge a bad man? As parents you set rules for your children, and if the break it they are punished. Or do you just let it go? I would like to think if you did, they would just continue to do it anyway because there is no consequence for their action. Or does it make you a bad parent when you punish them for their breaking of your rules?

I am confused as to why satan would be forgiven by God and still be allowed to have all these powers What power? Satan does not have as much power as many people think. Satan is not the opposite of God as many people have formed in their minds. In fact when compared to the power of God, he real does not have any, he will always bow when God steps in. Think of it this way, satan is a bully on the play ground but he is striped of his power when some one greater is around.

and yet a new born baby has to bear the terrible burden of original sin that they didnt even commit!new born babies don't have to be subject to this if their parents would turn to God. We often do not realize the legality with which the spiritual realm operates. Basically there are two kingdoms, and which one you reside in is the one whose laws governs your life. Satan's kingdom does not have fair rules, he is a wicked king, that does not seek the good of anyone. He is deceptive and cruel. On the other hand God's is a king who is good and seeks the good of his subjects. Now sin is the contract between Satan an man, and in it's fine print it gives him the right to do as he please. Now in the contract it says that a person can be redeem only by the blood of one who is innocent, without sin. The only person that is without sin is God himself. So God himself in the person of Christ paid the ransom once for all man kind to be free. However, we need to acknowledge our need for him and then allow his blood and sacrifice to work on our behalf. Now it is up to us to realize that the price has been paid and walk out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light...


just trying to understand here.

[megadoc1]

guess I'll have to ask it again

^ Why did God not destroy Lucifer immediately instead of leaving him to tempt man, God's greatest creation?

also please answer:
http://www.trinituner.com/v3/forums/viewtopic.php?p=4612669#p4612669

Great question there bro, and the answer is simple...GOD FORGIVES!

Duane, why God did not destroy all mankind after their first Sin?

Simple...he Forgives!
And everything happens for a reason.

ah ok I understand.

Couple more questions though.
Did Satan ask for forgiveness?
no and he never will he is doing what he did ever since he got cast out
Don't you have to ask God for forgiveness; seek his forgiveness?
yes
If Satan was forgiven why then Revelation 20:10?
this is the time he will be destroyed

^ Why did God not destroy Lucifer immediately instead of leaving him to tempt man, God's greatest creation?

its the best way to test his creation and we see how so many have failed, in fact any decision God makes is best, because He is Holy
Also why didnt God forgive the entire world of people instead of killing them all in the great flood?because he choose to do so remember he is Holy he don't need anyones aproval
Or why not forgive Adam and Eve of sin and so forgive all of mankind of original sin?
because he is Holy and when you break his laws or rebel against him there is a price to pay and adam and eve did pay

I am confused as to why satan would be forgiven by God satan is never forgiven nor does he wants to be and still be allowed to have all these powers lol how much power you feel satan have?and yet a new born baby has to bear the terrible burden of original sin that they didnt even commit! yea well thats tough but adam and eve did disobey and did die so their fruit are born dead (condemned) are you gonna continue to rebel against God seeing how He deals?

just trying to understand here.you will never understand, its not like you want to anyways and even if you do, it is worth nothing if you don't have Jesus

[sMASH]

^^^ toyo, so in the last explanation u give, u say that a baby is not subject to original sin if the parents believe in jesus as god and/or son of?

u did not answer the question clearly, ur saying the baby does not have to believe as long as the parents do, are u?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

QG says God forgave Satan and that's why God didn't kill him
Toyo says God forgave Satan for God's own benefit so God could feel better
Megadoc says God did not forgive Satan.

who is correct?

[16 cycles]

Now sin is the contract between Satan an man, and in it's fine print it gives him the right to do as he please. Now in the contract it says that a person can be redeem only by the blood of one who is innocent, without sin. The only person that is without sin is God himself. So God himself in the person of Christ paid the ransom once for all man kind to be free. However, we need to acknowledge our need for him and then allow his blood and sacrifice to work on our behalf. Now it is up to us to realize that the price has been paid and walk out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light...

...contract?.....who made this contract and is there a copy in any of the religious texts?

[Stephon.]

QG says God forgave Satan and that's why God didn't kill him
Toyo says God forgave Satan for God's own benefit so God could feel better
Megadoc says God did not forgive Satan.

who is correct?

Neither, the whole book is fiction.

[Sky]

QG says God forgave Satan and that's why God didn't kill him
Toyo says God forgave Satan for God's own benefit so God could feel better
Megadoc says God did not forgive Satan.

who is correct?

Toyo used us as an example. God didn't forgive him to feel better, he did it because it's the right thing. And he didn't kill him because of this.
And as usual, megaduck dunno what he talking about. if God didn't forgive Satan there wouldn't be a Satan

[sMASH]

^^ somebody signin contract on my behalf,,, isn't that illegal?? we could ask warner if those kinds of tings could be done.

as far as i know, god allows him to deceive us as tests. but that is between him and god, not us

[toyo682]

^^^ toyo, so in the last explanation u give, u say that a baby is not subject to original sin if the parents believe in jesus as god and/or son of?

u did not answer the question clearly, ur saying the baby does not have to believe as long as the parents do, are u?

I believe in what is called an age of accountability. Until that child understands what right and wrong is I believe that if they die in that state they go to heaven. Until then they are under the spiritual covering of their parents. Just as in the physical parents allow and disallow who interacts with their child, so to it is in the spiritual.

[toyo682]

Now sin is the contract between Satan an man, and in it's fine print it gives him the right to do as he please. Now in the contract it says that a person can be redeem only by the blood of one who is innocent, without sin. The only person that is without sin is God himself. So God himself in the person of Christ paid the ransom once for all man kind to be free. However, we need to acknowledge our need for him and then allow his blood and sacrifice to work on our behalf. Now it is up to us to realize that the price has been paid and walk out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light...

...contract?.....who made this contract and is there a copy in any of the religious texts?

we make the contract when we sin. Unfortunately many times we don't know it.

See if this helps the understanding

guilt, a concept that is difficult to define precisely and with every nuance present in the various writings of the Bible. For the biblical writers, guilt is not understood primarily as an inward feeling of remorse or a bad conscience, but rather as involving a situation that has arisen because of sin committed against God or one’s neighbor (sin either of commission or of omission). Thus, in the Bible, guilt appears to have two primary presuppositions for its existence: first, human beings are responsible and accountable for their actions, thoughts, and attitudes; and second, these actions, thoughts, and attitudes constitute a state of guilt when relationships between human beings and God or other human beings have been broken because of sin.

Responsibility: The principal ingredient in the biblical concept of guilt appears to be the dimension of responsibility. Human beings are accountable for what they do and for the consequences of what they do. This accountability lies at the center of the biblical understanding of guilt. So great was this sense of responsibility that people could be guilty without even being aware that they had done anything wrong (e.g., Lev. 5:17-19). When a person sinned, guilt was the natural consequence. Often guilt was depicted in the ot as a burden or weight that could crush a person (e.g., Ps. 38:4, 6), or as a cancer that could destroy a person from within (e.g., Ps. 32:3-4), or as a debt that must be paid (e.g., Lev. 5:1-6:7; Num. 5:5-8).

Reconciliation: Because of these understandings that all people were guilty before God and each other, there developed in Israel a system of sacrifices and rituals that were designed to ‘purify’ the people involved by their paying a penalty for the wrong done. This ritual was not designed simply to relieve the conscience of the guilty party but rather to make restitution, to lay aside the burden of guilt, and to restore the broken relationship caused by the guilt. The system was designed, in part at least, to establish a reconciliation between the guilty party and the party sinned against. In the nt, Paul makes frequent use of this idea (e.g., Rom. 5:6-11; 2 Cor. 5:16-21; cf. Col. 1:19-20).

Collective and Individual: Because of the biblical understanding of the importance of the community, i.e., the people of God, guilt could be both collective and individual. What one person did could cause guilt to come upon an entire group of people (cf. esp. the story of Achan, Josh. 7). The basis for this view was the Hebrew belief in corporate solidarity, the essential importance of the people as a whole, not just as an aggregate of individuals. Individuals might sin, however, and bring guilt and the consequences of sin upon themselves. The famous lament and confession of sin in Psalm 51 points to such a situation, as does the well-known challenge of Ezekiel to the people in Exile (chap. 18).

Guilt brought with it serious consequences, such as separation from God and one’s neighbors and specific penalties for sins committed. The nt writers used a particular word (Gk. enochos) with regard to guilt, which usually means ‘deserving of punishment’ (e.g., Matt. 26:66; 1 Cor. 11:27; James 2:10). According to Paul, all human beings are guilty before God (e.g., Rom. 1:18-3:20). In both the ot and the nt, it is only because of God’s grace that guilt can be set aside through God’s forgiveness

Achtemeier, P. J., Harper & Row, P., & Society of Biblical Literature. (1985). Harper's Bible dictionary. Includes index. (1st ed.) (362). San Francisco: Harper & Row.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

I believe in what is called an age of accountability. Until that child understands what right and wrong is I believe that if they die in that state they go to heaven. Until then they are under the spiritual covering of their parents. Just as in the physical parents allow and disallow who interacts with their child, so to it is in the spiritual.

is that in the Bible?

[16 cycles]

toyo682

nothing from what you quoted specifies any contract being formed between, god, people, christ or the devil.

It simply points out why the onus is on an individual to live a good life and the interpretation of sin by the author of the article you're quoting from.

Nothing speaks about the blood of an innocent person being sacrificed to absolve those in the "contract", of sin....

[toyo682]

I believe in what is called an age of accountability. Until that child understands what right and wrong is I believe that if they die in that state they go to heaven. Until then they are under the spiritual covering of their parents. Just as in the physical parents allow and disallow who interacts with their child, so to it is in the spiritual.

is that in the Bible?

Truth be told it is not out rightly expressed or expressed at all in scripture. It is not something I am dogmatic about, but I will not tell a parent who innocent child has died that the child has gone to hell. It is one thing to out rightly reject God, when you have the mental cognition to do so, it is a total other thing. Like I said I believe, I did not say the Bible says. If we need to call on God for salvation then common sense would say that a child cannot do that. As I said I am not dogmatic about this, in the end only God really knows. And I am talking here about the eternal consequences not the physical ones that I have spoken about concern generational curses. I have seen and read about children who had inherited some sickness from their parents but we heal when the parent was delivered. Also I have read about children who have had the same spirit in them as in their parent.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

I believe in what is called an age of accountability. Until that child understands what right and wrong is I believe that if they die in that state they go to heaven. Until then they are under the spiritual covering of their parents. Just as in the physical parents allow and disallow who interacts with their child, so to it is in the spiritual.

is that in the Bible?

Truth be told it is not out rightly expressed or expressed at all in scripture. It is not something I am dogmatic about, but I will not tell a parent who innocent child has died that the child has gone to hell. It is one thing to out rightly reject God, when you have the mental cognition to do so, it is a total other thing. Like I said I believe, I did not say the Bible says. If we need to call on God for salvation then common sense would say that a child cannot do that. As I said I am not dogmatic about this, in the end only God really knows. And I am talking here about the eternal consequences not the physical ones that I have spoken about concern generational curses. I have seen and read about children who had inherited some sickness from their parents but we heal when the parent was delivered. Also I have read about children who have had the same spirit in them as in their parent.

Earlier on you were taking literal meaning from the Bible and now you are saying that you have other beliefs that you have formulated yourself.

[illumin@ti]

round and round we go Duane..... what yuh feel like my yute? 150 pages?

[MG Man]

let.....................this.......................ched.......................dieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[toyo682]

I believe in what is called an age of accountability. Until that child understands what right and wrong is I believe that if they die in that state they go to heaven. Until then they are under the spiritual covering of their parents. Just as in the physical parents allow and disallow who interacts with their child, so to it is in the spiritual.

is that in the Bible?

Truth be told it is not out rightly expressed or expressed at all in scripture. It is not something I am dogmatic about, but I will not tell a parent who innocent child has died that the child has gone to hell. It is one thing to out rightly reject God, when you have the mental cognition to do so, it is a total other thing. Like I said I believe, I did not say the Bible says. If we need to call on God for salvation then common sense would say that a child cannot do that. As I said I am not dogmatic about this, in the end only God really knows. And I am talking here about the eternal consequences not the physical ones that I have spoken about concern generational curses. I have seen and read about children who had inherited some sickness from their parents but we heal when the parent was delivered. Also I have read about children who have had the same spirit in them as in their parent.

Earlier on you were taking literal meaning from the Bible and now you are saying that you have other beliefs that you have formulated yourself.

Something wrong with this? This is why I said on this point I am not dogmatic.

[d spike]

Earlier on you were taking literal meaning from the Bible and now you are saying that you have other beliefs that you have formulated yourself.

Something wrong with this? This is why I said on this point I am not dogmatic.

Don't get your knickers in a twist, lad. He is just trying to understand your point of view.

[d spike]

let.....................this.......................ched.......................dieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

MG, you and nati just hold on for a little while longer, nah... There's going to be a few sparks in a short while. Toyo is about to state that he believes in a certain concept which isn't based on biblical writings... this will throw Megadoc into a frenzy, who will then pick up his Rebuke5000ator and point it at Toyo in an attempt to either fry him to a crisp or just make him shut up.
Who knows? Bluefete might very well pick this time to return, shaking his head and wagging his finger at this person who claims some non-biblical tenet.

Stick around... (goes off to pop popcorn)

[megadoc1]

let.....................this.......................ched.......................dieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

MG, you and nati just hold on for a little while longer, nah... There's going to be a few sparks in a short while. Toyo is about to state that he believes in a certain concept which isn't based on biblical writings... this will throw Megadoc into a frenzy, who will then pick up his Rebuke5000ator and point it at Toyo in an attempt to either fry him to a crisp or just make him shut up.
Who knows? Bluefete might very well pick this time to return, shaking his head and wagging his finger at this person who claims some non-biblical tenet.

Stick around... (goes off to pop popcorn)

lol d spike you just get me exited ................but you forget something

[illumin@ti]

let.....................this.......................ched.......................dieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

MG, you and nati just hold on for a little while longer, nah... There's going to be a few sparks in a short while. Toyo is about to state that he believes in a certain concept which isn't based on biblical writings... this will throw Megadoc into a frenzy, who will then pick up his Rebuke5000ator and point it at Toyo in an attempt to either fry him to a crisp or just make him shut up.
Who knows? Bluefete might very well pick this time to return, shaking his head and wagging his finger at this person who claims some non-biblical tenet.

Stick around... (goes off to pop popcorn)

i wonder how St. Anns eh come to take way Megaduck yet...

[d spike]

let.....................this.......................ched.......................dieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

MG, you and nati just hold on for a little while longer, nah... There's going to be a few sparks in a short while. Toyo is about to state that he believes in a certain concept which isn't based on biblical writings... this will throw Megadoc into a frenzy, who will then pick up his Rebuke5000ator and point it at Toyo in an attempt to either fry him to a crisp or just make him shut up.
Who knows? Bluefete might very well pick this time to return, shaking his head and wagging his finger at this person who claims some non-biblical tenet.

Stick around... (goes off to pop popcorn)

i wonder how St. Anns eh come to take way Megaduck yet...

Yuh forget somet'ing, nati... dementia is curable - dotishness isn't.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Something wrong with this? This is why I said on this point I am not dogmatic.

should I take this to mean "on THIS point you are not dogmatic"?
or should I take it to mean "AT this point you are not dogmatic"?

cause you seemed pretty dogmatic to me in your previous posts

[megadoc1]

let.....................this.......................ched.......................dieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

MG, you and nati just hold on for a little while longer, nah... There's going to be a few sparks in a short while. Toyo is about to state that he believes in a certain concept which isn't based on biblical writings... this will throw Megadoc into a frenzy, who will then pick up his Rebuke5000ator and point it at Toyo in an attempt to either fry him to a crisp or just make him shut up.
Who knows? Bluefete might very well pick this time to return, shaking his head and wagging his finger at this person who claims some non-biblical tenet.

Stick around... (goes off to pop popcorn)

i wonder how St. Anns eh come to take way Megaduck yet...

Yuh forget somet'ing, nati... dementia is curable - dotishness isn't.

nice one