The Religion Discussion

[Sky]

^^ No they don't.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ So then how could Lucifer have chosen to defy God and follow a path of evil?

I'd prefer an answer from Toyo, Bluefete, QG or megadoc1 though

[illumin@ti]

^ So then how could Lucifer have chosen to defy God and follow a path of evil?

God made him do it

[megadoc1]

^ how is it my point of view that YOU said "now look how I see it"?
you said it, not me

I said a lot of things but if you want to hold on to that one to be comfortable ,fix up

Are you saying that some of your statements are not compatible with others?

no I am saying that you choose certain statements I make to deceive yourselves
go right ahead, I recognize deceit when I see it

[Sky]

^ So then how could Lucifer have chosen to defy God and follow a path of evil?

Ok I stand corrected. Asked the moms. They do. They just gotta be dumb to go against God because they know what happens if you do as an angel. So they just dont
The morning star didn't do his deed alone to get where he is. He wrangled up other angels so there's a bunch of them.

[Chimera]

^ So then how could Lucifer have chosen to defy God and follow a path of evil?

God made him do it

God was testing him.

[megadoc1]

^ do Angels also have free will?

angels do have free will

^ So then how could Lucifer have chosen to defy God and follow a path of evil?

lucifer's defiance was the evil act

[Chimera]

I recognize deceit when I see it

That sounds so funny coming from you yes

[Sky]

I find God should close this thread.
I think megadoc is one of those false teachers spoken about in Revelations.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ perhaps, but we have no proof

Megadoc1, can you read the section on this article on Lutherans
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will_in_theology
and tell me if those are also your beliefs?

[QG]

^ do Angels also have free will?

angels do have free will

^ So then how could Lucifer have chosen to defy God and follow a path of evil?

lucifer's defiance was the evil act

Yes Duane, Angels do have free will.

Lucifer chose to defy God because he wanted to be exactly like God, Lucifer was too greedy! God could not have that kind of disobedience with him in Heaven, so he got thown out.
When Lucifer fell from Heaven, he lost all his Heavenly powers/gifts, but Lucifer did have power over the World.
Lucifer, now called Satan uses these powers to INFLUENCE mankind to disobey God because he chosed to do it (evil).

Lucifer may have chosen this path as a way to get back at God for kicking him out of Heaven, and also to be his own ruler of some kind (EVIL of course) (my theory).

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ Why did God not destroy Lucifer immediately instead of leaving him to tempt man, God's greatest creation?

also please answer:
http://www.trinituner.com/v3/forums/viewtopic.php?p=4612669#p4612669

[QG]

Another thing I want to share, the Bible teaches us to separate ourselves from worldly things.
The Devil does have power over the world and uses it to tempt mankind into evil doings, such example is "Greed of Money".

Money by itself is good, but the GREED of Money is root of all EVIL in the World we live today.
We must not let Satan enter into our lives and corrupt the mind and heart of all.

[Sky]

^ do Angels also have free will?

angels do have free will

^ So then how could Lucifer have chosen to defy God and follow a path of evil?

lucifer's defiance was the evil act

Yes Duane, Angels do have free will.

Lucifer chose to defy God because he wanted to be exactly like God, Lucifer was too greedy! God could not have that kind of disobedience with him in Heaven, so he got thown out.
When Lucifer fell from Heaven, he lost all his Heavenly powers/gifts, but Lucifer did have power over the World.
Lucifer, now called Satan uses these powers to INFLUENCE mankind to disobey God because he chosed to do it (evil).

Lucifer may have chosen this path as a way to get back at God for kicking him out of Heaven, and also to be his own ruler of some kind (EVIL of course) (my theory).

Lil correction there. His name wasn't Lucifer then. Man gave him that name. In the bible his name was unmentionable because his name was not to be mentioned in the bible. God called him the bright star/morning star. God was proud of him and had him 2nd in command. Just like man's image of God and Jesus, man's image of Satan is very wrong. He's not a beat with horns, hooves and scales on his skin etc.
He's said be very good looking and approachable. Kinda like this

[QG]

^ Why did God not destroy Lucifer immediately instead of leaving him to tempt man, God's greatest creation?

also please answer:
http://www.trinituner.com/v3/forums/viewtopic.php?p=4612669#p4612669

Great question there bro, and the answer is simple...GOD FORGIVES!

Duane, why God did not destroy all mankind after their first Sin?

Simple...he Forgives!
And everything happens for a reason.

[megadoc1]

^ perhaps, but we have no proof

Megadoc1, can you read the section on this article on Lutherans
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will_in_theology
and tell me if those are also your beliefs?

my beliefs in free will inside Christianity is considered a none essential issue

[megadoc1]

I find God should close this thread.
I think megadoc is one of those false teachers spoken about in Revelations.

but wait.............................

You see everyone uses the bible to suit them. I use it to Show others how they should behave, while you use it as a weapon against others.

Why even read the bible? It was written by men when mankind was wicked and ignorant. I want nothing of it. Since when faith need a text book anyway. lol @ that faith. Again, it's in the heart, not on paper. All the bible ever did was tear humans apart.

[d spike]

^ how is it my point of view that YOU said "now look how I see it"?
you said it, not me

I said a lot of things but if you want to hold on to that one to be comfortable ,fix up

Are you saying that some of your statements are not compatible with others?

no I am saying that you choose certain statements I make to deceive yourselves
go right ahead, I recognize deceit when I see it

So... there are certain statements you made that we shouldn't accept, as we would be deceiving ourselves if we did...
Seems to me that you wouldn't even recognize a straight answer even if it should walk up to you and slap you silly...

[d spike]

my beliefs in free will inside Christianity is considered a none essential issue

What the hell is a "none essential issue"?

[megadoc1]

^ how is it my point of view that YOU said "now look how I see it"?
you said it, not me

I said a lot of things but if you want to hold on to that one to be comfortable ,fix up

Are you saying that some of your statements are not compatible with others?

no I am saying that you choose certain statements I make to deceive yourselves
go right ahead, I recognize deceit when I see it

So... there are certain statements you made that we shouldn't accept, as we would be deceiving ourselves if we did...YES like this one because you choose statements i make as grounds for your deceit and i know you cant be fooling me so you are only fooling yourself
Seems to me that you wouldn't even recognize a straight answer even if it should walk up to you and slap you silly...probably

[megadoc1]

my beliefs in free will inside Christianity is considered a none essential issue

What the hell is a "none essential issue"?

Non-Essential Doctrines
Can be believed or not and it does not affect whether or not one is Christian.

Predestination, election, limited atonement, and free will

[d spike]

my beliefs in free will inside Christianity is considered a none essential issue

What the hell is a "none essential issue"?

Non-Essential Doctrines
Can be believed or not and it does not affect whether or not one is Christian.

Predestination, election, limited atonement, and free will

1. If you meant "non-essential", that's what you should have written. Not only do you need to learn how to read, you need to learn how to write/spell.
2. I am not making any attempt to fool you, or to make a fool out of you... you have done a great job of it all by yourself.

[sMASH]

Luke 18:18-27

18A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
19"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone.
20You know the commandments: 'Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.'[a]"
21"All these I have kept since I was a boy," he said.
22When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
23When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was a man of great wealth.
24Jesus looked at him and said, "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God! 25Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

this actually contradicts popular Pauline christianity.

the belief of jesus being god and/or son of, does not make ur riches, status, clothes, whatever else, criteria . if so, then all dem pastors goin to hell.
if, that man were doing deeds and still missing one, that would mean that his deeds are important.
when jesus (pbuh) instructed the man to follow him, he meant that he follow the way he was at the time, the way of living. he did not say to the man to worship him, nor say that he was lord and master and god.

pauline popular christianity says that all u need to do to go to heaven/prevent u to go to hell is believe that jesus is god and/or son of....
this passages says something different, that ur deeds, intentions are important.

to inherit eternal life, the guy needed to keep on following the old laws he was following as well as follow the rest he did not, or it would be hard to get to heaven.
nothing was mentioned about believing that jesus was god and/or son of. that is different from following him or his way,,, those two concepts are different.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ Why did God not destroy Lucifer immediately instead of leaving him to tempt man, God's greatest creation?

also please answer:
http://www.trinituner.com/v3/forums/viewtopic.php?p=4612669#p4612669

Great question there bro, and the answer is simple...GOD FORGIVES!

Duane, why God did not destroy all mankind after their first Sin?

Simple...he Forgives!
And everything happens for a reason.

ah ok I understand.

Couple more questions though.
Don't you have to ask God for forgiveness; seek his forgiveness?

Also why didnt he forgive the entire world of people instead of killing them all in the great flood?
Or why not forgive Adam and Eve of sin and so forgive all of mankind of original sin?

it's rather unusual that satan would be forgiven and still be allowed to have all these powers and yet a new born baby has to bear the terrible burden of original sin that they didnt even commit!

just trying to understand here.

[megadoc1]

my beliefs in free will inside Christianity is considered a none essential issue

What the hell is a "none essential issue"?

Non-Essential Doctrines
Can be believed or not and it does not affect whether or not one is Christian.

Predestination, election, limited atonement, and free will

1. If you meant "non-essential", that's what you should have written. Not only do you need to learn how to read, you need to learn how to write/spell.
2. I am not making any attempt to fool you, or to make a fool out of you... you have done a great job of it all by yourself.

cool

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

megadoc1 feel free to answer my questions, don't give all the work to QG

[d spike]

megadoc1 feel free to answer my questions, don't give all the work to QG

Unless he finds a response via Google, his response will be either: cool; that's your opinion; if that's what you're comfortable with, then hold onto it; or just

[megadoc1]

megadoc1 feel free to answer my questions, don't give all the work to QG

I don't think you are honestly looking for answers

[d spike]

I don't think you are honestly looking for answers

Well, seeing as how you admit to not giving honest answers... what's the problem?

^ how is it my point of view that YOU said "now look how I see it"?
you said it, not me

I said a lot of things but if you want to hold on to that one to be comfortable ,fix up

I am saying that you choose certain statements I make to deceive yourselves

So... there are certain statements you made that we shouldn't accept, as we would be deceiving ourselves if we did

(By the way, Megadoc, nice duck/dodge there... keep it up )

[Sky]

I find God should close this thread.
I think megadoc is one of those false teachers spoken about in Revelations.

but wait.............................

You see everyone uses the bible to suit them. I use it to Show others how they should behave, while you use it as a weapon against others.

Why even read the bible? It was written by men when mankind was wicked and ignorant. I want nothing of it. Since when faith need a text book anyway. lol @ that faith. Again, it's in the heart, not on paper. All the bible ever did was tear humans apart.

Your point being?

Far less destructive than what you did here,if destructive at all.
You're claiming to be some sort of authority on the matter.
You're encouraging intolerance.
You're being judgmental when it's not your place.
You're twisting the bible to suit you and illustrating my point about the bible even further.
Hear what, go and do some sort of real charity work then you can quote me.
Something as small as spending your Saturday at Cyril Ross with hiv+ kids.
Then quote me. Else, udfr.