The Religion Discussion

[megadoc1]

hmmm his private beliefs differs from his public opinions

is D spike saying all that he posted here, have nothing to do with what he believes in ?

Remind me again how this could possibly be any concern of yours...

simple you are holding two positions, one you hold as truth and one you hold as opinion

Who said I was holding two separate positions?
I said so ..... one is your public opinion and one is your private beliefs

then you come on here posting your opinions against what I hold as truth
then you use your "interpretations" of the scripture to back up your opinions
which differs from what you really hold as truth.

How do YOU know this? That my opinion DIFFERS from what I hold as truth? I never said that.
because you said "My personal religious beliefs are not for public consumption" but we have your opinions
are you now saying that your public opinions are based on you private beliefs?

that is called deceit

That is called ASSUMING... something you and your ilk are good at... you assume that if your way is right, then all else is wrong...no now you are assuming....... I have tested and proven that to myself your defender in the other thread even assumed thus about me:

Then y did you leave the priesthood ??

my concern is how can you expect people to accept your opinion even
if you yourself dont believe in what you are posting?

Who said I don't believe in what I am posting?so its based on your beliefs? Concern yourself first with your inability to read and understand what is written in the language you attempt to use.what about your inability to keep the scriptures in context? I think thats more of a concern considering your wisdom



I have stated my opinion here very clearly. Those who know me well will vouch for that.
My personal religious beliefs are not for public consumption, and unlike many here, I will not discuss them. You really need to learn to read. I write EXACTLY what I mean.so that means the scriptures taken out of context are how you really see it? I never said anything about matters differing.cool I see

[megadoc1]

We have to realize that God knows all things, actual as well as potential.

we cannot say that God created the devil, but we can say that God created the angel Lucifer who later became the devil.

right

yeah he also created a place for the devil and his followers

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ sorry I should have been more descriptive with you

"God knows all things, actual as well as potential."
So therefore when God created Lucifer, he knew Lucifer was going to become the Devil?

[QG]

The purpose of God in giving the command not to eat the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil was to establish humans in the ways of righteousness and faith, but Satan used the command as an occasion to tempt man to rebel against God. Although there was no evil for man in being tempted, it was evil for Satan to tempt man to sin. This means that there was evil in the universe prior to the fall of man.....

^ if God is the creator of the universe and all with in it, did God create evil as well?

Isaiah 45:7 - I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and ocreate calamity; I, the Lord, do all these things.’

[megadoc1]

^ sorry I should have been more descriptive with you

"God knows all things, actual as well as potential."
So therefore when God created Lucifer, he knew Lucifer was going to become the Devil?

yes

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ Why then did he create Lucifer?
If God created Lucifer knowing that Lucifer would be the lord of evil then you are alluding that God created this evil?

The purpose of God in giving the command not to eat the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil was to establish humans in the ways of righteousness and faith, but Satan used the command as an occasion to tempt man to rebel against God. Although there was no evil for man in being tempted, it was evil for Satan to tempt man to sin. This means that there was evil in the universe prior to the fall of man.....

^ if God is the creator of the universe and all with in it, did God create evil as well?

Isaiah 45:7 - I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and ocreate calamity; I, the Lord, do all these things.’

some texts translate the original Hebrew to read "I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create evil;"

but how can God create evil if the rest of the Bible says he is purely good and righteous?

[d spike]

cool I see

I am not sure you do. The meaning of the word "discuss" seems alien to you - but then, considering your demonstrated idea of a "discussion", that shouldn't surprise me.

You face a quandary that explains your inability to deal with the issues discussed here. My opinions are based on my beliefs. These are two different things, that can be dealt with separately... being different does not mean they oppose each other. Therein lies the crux of the matter - you can no more appreciate this, than you can appreciate the fact that Smash and nati probably are more christian in their outlook and values than you are.

[QG]

^ Why then did he create Lucifer?
If God created Lucifer knowing that Lucifer would be the lord of evil then you are alluding that God created this evil?

The purpose of God in giving the command not to eat the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil was to establish humans in the ways of righteousness and faith, but Satan used the command as an occasion to tempt man to rebel against God. Although there was no evil for man in being tempted, it was evil for Satan to tempt man to sin. This means that there was evil in the universe prior to the fall of man.....

^ if God is the creator of the universe and all with in it, did God create evil as well?

Isaiah 45:7 - I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and ocreate calamity; I, the Lord, do all these things.’

some texts translate the original Hebrew to read "I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create evil;"

but how can God create evil if the rest of the Bible says he is purely good and righteous?

Simply because he is God and can do anythng...but 1 John 1:5 - This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.
He may have created it, but he is not part of it.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

d spike, megadoc1 strong believes that the path to God is not through good deeds but through believing in Christ so he is not going to understand points made in favour of people just having good values and morals.

[megadoc1]

^ Why then did he create Lucifer?
If God created Lucifer knowing that Lucifer would be the lord of evil then you are alluding that God created this evil?

these are commonly asked questions
http://www.carm.org/if-god-all-knowing- ... eate-satan

At the risk of sounding flippant, why not? For what reason or reasons should God have not created the devil even if he was going to fall? Just because God knows what will happen doesn't mean that the person (or angel) isn't free to make choices. Satan freely chose to rebel against God. God knew this would happen. Nevertheless, let me offer some possible reasons why God would create Satan even though He knew he would fall and rebel.

1. It was necessary to have the fall so that God could then have a reason to die for our sins thereby demonstrating that God can and does provide the greatest act of love which is to lay down one's life for his friend (John 15:13).
2. The fall of Satan provides yet another method for God to be glorified in that God can use sin to prove that sin is "bad" and that God's Word about righteousness is true.
3. If God is to have creatures with free will, then the risk of rebellion is part of that freedom. Satan had that freedom and used it to rebel.
4. If God had not created Satan and instead another angel fell, then we'd be asking why God made that angel knowing he would fall.
5. God has reasons about which we know nothing.

I know my children will act badly at times, but knowing that does not mean mean that I shouldn't have kids. Part of the risk of freedom is that rebellion will be a reality.

The purpose of God in giving the command not to eat the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil was to establish humans in the ways of righteousness and faith, but Satan used the command as an occasion to tempt man to rebel against God. Although there was no evil for man in being tempted, it was evil for Satan to tempt man to sin. This means that there was evil in the universe prior to the fall of man.....

^ if God is the creator of the universe and all with in it, did God create evil as well?

Isaiah 45:7 - I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and ocreate calamity; I, the Lord, do all these things.’

some texts translate the original Hebrew to read "I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create evil;"

but how can God create evil if the rest of the Bible says he is purely good and righteous?[/quote][/quote]
the rest of you questions are already answered here
http://www.carm.org/questions/about-god

[megadoc1]

cool I see

I am not sure you do. The meaning of the word "discuss" seems alien to you - but then, considering your demonstrated idea of a "discussion", that shouldn't surprise me.

You face a quandary that explains your inability to deal with the issues discussed here. My opinions are based on my beliefs. These are two different things, that can be dealt with separately... being different does not mean they oppose each other. Therein lies the crux of the matter - you can no more appreciate this, than you can appreciate the fact that Smash and nati probably are more christian in their outlook and values than you are.

lol what is a christian?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ megadoc1 clearly even you should think a Christian is MORE than just someone who believes in Christ! If so then Lucifer is a Christian too, cause surely he knows Jesus is the son of God!

FYI the term "Christian" is also used adjectivally to describe anything associated with Christianity, or in a proverbial sense "all that is noble, and good, and Christ-like."

Simply because he is God and can do anythng...but 1 John 1:5 - This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.
He may have created it, but he is not part of it.

ok, I'm maybe beginning to understand
but if in him is is no darkness at all and he is not part of it, why would he have created it?

it is difficult to see why God would have created evil and then have to go through the eons teaching man to avoid it, wiping out everyone in the great flood, and giving his only son for something that he created.

Sorry it's not adding up for me, can you explain?

[d spike]

d spike, megadoc1 strong believes that the path to God is not through good deeds but through believing in Christ so he is not going to understand points made in favour of people just having good values and morals.

I understand, and agree with your summation of his view... however, my point has to do with the difference between my opinion on a matter and my beliefs...

Perhaps your question concerning the "creation" of evil, might be answered with a different understanding of what evil is. Most christians misconceive what sin is, especially "original sin". Original sin is actually the lack of a connection with God. To consider good and evil as two perfect opposites is to consider both concepts as matched... this isn't so - otherwise, why the belief that good will win in the end, rather than accepting that there is a 50/50 chance of this happening? Sin is a twisted or warped version of something good.
As far as ol' Lucifer is concerned, the concept of free will needs to be understood. QG's explanation is a cute way of saying he doesn't know the answer... it doesn't explain anything, does it?
God created out of love. The created are allowed to choose to be with Him. Some can choose in an instant due to their ability (the angels) and some need an earthly lifetime to choose.
Many a parent can tell that their son is going the wrong way, stealing, lying... but they don't decide to stop feeding them, or euthanize them, eh? They continue out of... love? ...duty? Maybe not the best explanation (confusing storge and agape, but hey, it's late) but hopefully it's helpful.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ you are preaching to the choir

it's these "new" concepts from bluefete, toyo and megadoc1 that I am having problems understanding

[megadoc1]

well done D spike keep it up
duane let me let u in on a secret ....it is not new

[d spike]

cool I see

I am not sure you do. The meaning of the word "discuss" seems alien to you...

You face a quandary that explains your inability to deal with the issues discussed here. My opinions are based on my beliefs. These are two different things, that can be dealt with separately... being different does not mean they oppose each other. Therein lies the crux of the matter

Did you READ this????

what is a christian?

You have got to be kidding...????
Whoever told you that you are capable of holding an intelligent discussion, and it is okay for you to evangelize in public because you have the necessary communication skills, was having an unfortunate joke at your expense. You haven't changed much from the last thread, apart from not quoting hymns at length, not harassing females, and now telling others to shut up, neither have you learned anything about two-way communication, especially the part where you need to understand their point before responding to them - you know, READ WHAT THEY WRITE????
Perhaps my peers were right, and this was largely a waste of time on my part.
As my daughter says to her friends, "whatever..."

So, until later

[megadoc1]

^ megadoc1 clearly even you should think a Christian is MORE than just someone who believes in Christ!true one who follows christ and trusts in him only If so then Lucifer is a Christian too, cause surely he knows Jesus is the son of God! void see above plus jesus did not die for satan who is the enemy of the people whom jesus came to save

FYI the term "Christian" is also used adjectivally to describe anything associated with Christianity, or in a proverbial sense "all that is noble, and good, and Christ-like."
being a Christian means knowing the true Christ and following Him in truth

http://www.carm.org/christianity/devoti ... -christian

[megadoc1]

cool I see

I am not sure you do. The meaning of the word "discuss" seems alien to you...

You face a quandary that explains your inability to deal with the issues discussed here. My opinions are based on my beliefs. These are two different things, that can be dealt with separately... being different does not mean they oppose each other. Therein lies the crux of the matter

Did you READ this????

what is a christian?

You have got to be kidding...????
Whoever told you that you are capable of holding an intelligent discussion, and it is okay for you to evangelize in public because who said its not ok? you have the necessary communication skills, was having an unfortunate joke at your expense. You haven't changed much from the last thread, apart from not quoting hymns at length, not harassing females, and now telling others to shut up, neither have you learned anything about two-way communication, especially the part where you need to understand their point before responding to them - you know, READ WHAT THEY WRITE????
Perhaps my peers were right, and this was largely a waste of time on my part.
As my daughter says to her friends, "whatever..."

So, until later

yes they were,the op wanted to know what was your best encounter with God
thats all

[Stephon.]

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/c ... _name.html

[d spike]

^ you are preaching to the choir

it's these "new" concepts from bluefete, toyo and megadoc1 that I am having problems understanding

This football-match attitude towards religion is becoming tiresome... but Fundamentalism isn't new. Zealots and impassioned heretics have peppered history. There will always be someone who claims he's found the answer that no one else sees... Right here in Trinidad there was a group who claimed that if they walked to Toco, the seas would part and they would walk home across to Africa. They finally walked to Toco, all right...

You do realize that in another century, Megadoc and company would have us tied to stakes and barbecued?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

well done D spike keep it up
duane let me let u in on a secret ....it is not new

concepts like these are new to me!

I cast out demons in the name of Jesus(i am not an exorcist)

I believe all scripture should be taken literally unless where it is figurative

yes the Holy spirit is the one who reveals the bible to me

megadoc1 do you think Ghandi is going to heaven?

did he give his life to christ ?
if not ..............No

being good does not get you to heaven, only believing in Jesus Christ does

Jesus wanted Kamla to win and so he willed it

even though Kamla is a devout Hindu

[megadoc1]

d spike, megadoc1 strong believes that the path to God is not through good deeds but through believing in Christ so he is not going to understand points made in favour of people just having good values and morals.

you need to understand that having good values and morals
means nothing to God,going before God with your own good works
is just plain foolish and prideful, in fact it he sees it as if you are waving a used sanitary napkin before him

good values and morals that are taught is not natural
so at the end of the day you are still a sinner, naturaly
it is like teaching a cat to bark but at the end , it is still a cat

when you give your life to Jesus you take on a new nature, that is of God, you begin to do good things,have good values and morals naturally because God is good
and it is he who dwells inside of you ,no one needs to teach you these
all you have to do is trust in him who dwells inside you

[Chimera]

you need to understand that having good values and morals
means nothing to God,going before God with your own good works
is just plain foolish and prideful, in fact it he sees it as if you are waving a used sanitary napkin before him

People actually believe this BS?
WDMC.....





Allyuh STILL gonna try to explain anything to megadoc1 after that one?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

you need to understand that having good values and morals
means nothing to God,going before God with your own good works
is just plain foolish and prideful, in fact it he sees it as if you are waving a used sanitary napkin before him

good values and morals that are taught is not natural
so at the end of the day you are still a sinner, naturaly
it is like teaching a cat to bark but at the end , it is still a cat

when you give your life to Jesus you take on a new nature, that is of God, you begin to do good things,have good values and morals naturally because God is good
and it is he who dwells inside of you ,no one needs to teach you these
all you have to do is trust in him who dwells inside you

oh yeah add this one to the list above as well
this one is extra contradictory with a healthy side of incoherence

[megadoc1]

well done D spike keep it up
duane let me let u in on a secret ....it is not new

concepts like these are new to me!

I cast out demons in the name of Jesus(i am not an exorcist)

jesus said John 14:12 anyone who believes in me the things I do he will do also and even greater things he will do because I go to my father

I believe all scripture should be taken literally unless where it is figurative

yes the Holy spirit is the one who reveals the bible to me
well I can cast out demons because I took the word of God literally and tested it

megadoc1 do you think Ghandi is going to heaven?

did he give his life to christ ?
if not ..............No

gandhi rejected Gods righteousness(jesus christ as his lord and savior) and went about seeking his own righteousness

being good does not get you to heaven, only believing in Jesus Christ does

going before God with good works is an insult it is like waving a used sanitary napkin before him
God is not santa claus he aint making any list and checking it twice trying to figure out who is naughty or nice
doh get tie up

Jesus wanted Kamla to win and so he willed it

even though Kamla is a devout Hindu when the children of Israel were in rebellion to God he let their enemies rule over them torturing them until the cry out to him

[megadoc1]

you need to understand that having good values and morals
means nothing to God,going before God with your own good works
is just plain foolish and prideful, in fact it he sees it as if you are waving a used sanitary napkin before him

good values and morals that are taught is not natural
so at the end of the day you are still a sinner, naturaly
it is like teaching a cat to bark but at the end , it is still a cat

when you give your life to Jesus you take on a new nature, that is of God, you begin to do good things,have good values and morals naturally because God is good
and it is he who dwells inside of you ,no one needs to teach you these
all you have to do is trust in him who dwells inside you

oh yeah add this one to the list above as well
this one is extra contradictory with a healthy side of incoherence

Isaiah 64:6 (New International Version)

6 All of us have become like one who is unclean,
and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags;
we all shrivel up like a leaf,
and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

Isaiah 64:6 (King James Version)

6But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_%27 ... aiah_64_v6

The term filthy rags that is refered to comes from the Hebrew 'ed for filthy and refers primarily to results of a woman's menstrual cycle and the word for rags, beged refers to just that, a vestment, a garment, rags, treachery. Put the words together and the result does not paint an appitizing picture but describes how God views the righteousness of man, that is self-righteousness.

[megadoc1]

you need to understand that having good values and morals
means nothing to God,going before God with your own good works
is just plain foolish and prideful, in fact it he sees it as if you are waving a used sanitary napkin before him

People actually believe this BS?
WDMC.....
Allyuh STILL gonna try to explain anything to megadoc1 after that one?

scary stuff huh?

[Chimera]

you need to understand that having good values and morals
means nothing to God,going before God with your own good works
is just plain foolish and prideful, in fact it he sees it as if you are waving a used sanitary napkin before him

People actually believe this BS?
WDMC.....





Allyuh STILL gonna try to explain anything to megadoc1 after that one?

scary stuff huh?

Your stupidity is scary.

[megadoc1]

you need to understand that having good values and morals
means nothing to God,going before God with your own good works
is just plain foolish and prideful, in fact it he sees it as if you are waving a used sanitary napkin before him

People actually believe this BS?
WDMC.....
Allyuh STILL gonna try to explain anything to megadoc1 after that one?

scary stuff huh?

Your stupidity is scary.

good but at least yuh learning ,thats what matters

[Stephon.]

Being a good person is 100% better than being a God fearing religious person.