The Religion Discussion

[zcarz]

i told you why already
it is either you believe or subject yourself to prove otherwise

sorry duane but to be a true follower of yeshua we must be biased and intolerant

hmm.. you're wrong

[16 cycles]

please don't lock this thread....

on the Gandhi issue....if he lived according to the fundamental teachings of the bible / christianity / other religions e.g. the 10 commandments....he still goes to hell even though he saw the world from a different theological perspective but with the same values that Christ taught?

[megadoc1]

i told you why already
it is either you believe or subject yourself to prove otherwise

sorry duane but to be a true follower of yeshua we must be biased and intolerant

hmm.. you're wrong

nope a true christian will be biased to the truth
and intolerant to evil, its either your on the lords side or the devils side
there ain't no neutral ground

[megadoc1]

please don't lock this thread....

on the Gandhi issue....if he lived according to the fundamental teachings of the bible / christianity / other religions e.g. the 10 commandments....he still goes to hell even though he saw the world from a different theological perspective but with the same values that Christ taught?

you don't become righteous by works, you become righteous through faith in Jesus Christ
God is Holy and righteous, you cannot stand before God in unrighteousness
so it don't matter how "good" you are here if you don't put your faith in Jesus
you are seen as unrighteous in the eyes of God
and Jesus said the unrighteous shall not enter the kingdom of heaven
in fact he said seek first the kingdom of heaven and his righteousness
and all things shall be added

[megadoc1]

sorry duane but to be a true follower of yeshua we must be biased and intolerant

@ this.

yes show me an unbiased and tolerant "christian"
and I will show you someone who don't know God
people please note jesus was very intolerant towards evil
and was hated and stoned when he speak out against it
I am following HE

[16 cycles]

you don't become righteous by works...

^ apply common sense to that .....and it makes no sense

i doubt God in all his infinite system will have a yes/no answer sheet to determine where you going to spend eternity....

do you believe in A?

yes: please follow the green path
no: please follow the red path

based on your beliefs, God created the universe and all within so that it all boils down to a yes/no answer....

gravity / light / solar system / planets / thunder & lightning / animals / human beings / quarks / eco-systems / atoms / molecules....all that for a yes/no answer?????

[16 cycles]

the end of religion may start with the invention of the time machine ©

[Jonathan]

This pretty much sums it up.

*puts on bluefete-repellant suit*

[buzz]

sorry duane but to be a true follower of yeshua we must be biased and intolerant

@ this.

yup

i think we can sum this one up right here and now

[illumin@ti]

sorry duane but to be a true follower of yeshua we must be biased and intolerant

@ this.

yup

i think we can sum this one up right here and now

and issa damn good thing he say it in his own words - no translation needed

[Chimera]

Would be pretty funny if megadoc1 is really a outpatient of st anns

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

nope a true christian will be biased to the truth

I keep asking, how do you know THAT is the truth?

and intolerant to evil, its either your on the lords side or the devils side
there ain't no neutral ground

Therefore every other religion is evil?

you don't become righteous by works, you become righteous through faith in Jesus Christ

So God is more interested in us believing in him than he is in how good we treat others?

please don't lock this thread....

on the Gandhi issue....if he lived according to the fundamental teachings of the bible / christianity / other religions e.g. the 10 commandments....he still goes to hell even though he saw the world from a different theological perspective but with the same values that Christ taught?

you don't become righteous by works, you become righteous through faith in Jesus Christ
God is Holy and righteous, you cannot stand before God in unrighteousness
so it don't matter how "good" you are here if you don't put your faith in Jesus
you are seen as unrighteous in the eyes of God
and Jesus said the unrighteous shall not enter the kingdom of heaven
in fact he said seek first the kingdom of heaven and his righteousness
and all things shall be added

megadoc1, I now understand WHY you are wrong and strong
it is because you do not understand the meaning of the word "RIGHTEOUS"

"Righteous is actually a made up word that was coined and remodelled after an earlier word "rihtwis", which would have yielded Modern English *rightwise or *rightways.
Righteousness therefore is one of the chief attributes of God."
"Righteous" chief meaning concerns ethical conduct. Righteous: integrity, equality, justice, straightness.

Righteous does NOT mean belief, faith, submission, intolerance AT ALL.

What you seem to be confusing is the belief that "The righteous are those who trust that they will be vindicated by the Lord God." The key concept there is NOT about trust! The key concept there is still about integrity, equality, justice, straightness.

Again you fall victim to the fact that you lack simple reading comprehension skills

Belief is important as it is the root of any religion, however the majority of all religious teachings is still about integrity, equality, justice, straightness (righteousness).

I hope you can understand what i wrote.

[illumin@ti]

^^^ you're hoping for a great lot Duane

[Sky]

please don't lock this thread....

on the Gandhi issue....if he lived according to the fundamental teachings of the bible / christianity / other religions e.g. the 10 commandments....he still goes to hell even though he saw the world from a different theological perspective but with the same values that Christ taught?

you don't become righteous by works, you become righteous through faith in Jesus Christ
God is Holy and righteous, you cannot stand before God in unrighteousness
so it don't matter how "good" you are here if you don't put your faith in Jesus
you are seen as unrighteous in the eyes of God
and Jesus said the unrighteous shall not enter the kingdom of heaven
in fact he said seek first the kingdom of heaven and his righteousness
and all things shall be added

sorry duane but to be a true follower of yeshua we must be biased and intolerant

@ this.

yes show me an unbiased and tolerant "christian"
and I will show you someone who don't know God
people please note jesus was very intolerant towards evil
and was hated and stoned when he speak out against it
I am following HE

Thas why allyuh christian does get on like muffler bearings with people. Look down on people. Won't help anyone. Does drive like cnuts. Anytime I see a jesus fish on a car I does stay away. Because I know an a hole driving it. They will hit me, be wrong and talk about i hit them and God will deal with me.
By his deeds shall a man be known. Think allyuh could get on bad down here then go in church and think allyuh saved. Buncha hypocrits. Lemme go do de ppl dem wuk yes. God will deal with allyuh.
And that is why I don't believe in the bible. It was turned into a smear campaign and popularity contest because the muslims giving them pressure long time.

And duane, this is a healthy discussion? This cnut no better than nazis, he no better than racists, sexists. He actually worse than them, because racism and sexism has some truth behind it. Black people really like chicken and lazy,and women really can't drive as good as men:P

[toyo682]

So question to those who believe that good works would get you the heaven (if you believe in one). Do we need to repent and turn away from the sin we commit against God, that our good work nullifies as you claim. Or can we continue to sin? If so are you sorry for what you have done that is wrong against God? How many righteous works does it take to nullify one sin? In civil law that fines vary depending on the crime, is it this way with God? How do you know on the day of your death that your good works out weighs your back works? How do we measure it, or do we just hope for the best? Also if your good works are aim at appeasing God’s wrath, is your works of love? Do you really feed the homeless because you love them, or because it is another tick in your goodness column on the day of judgement? Do you really love God if you continue to transgress his law wilfully? Do you think in a court of law, if you say to the judge, yes Judge I did rape that woman, but I was good and kind to others he would let you walk away? If no why does your goodness not supercede, your one bad deed in man’s courts, but it does in God’s? Are we of a higher moral standard that God? Do we demand justice when God does not? Recently I was reading in the papers about a man who was killed, his mother was claiming he was a good man, and he only started selling drugs to help his grandmother build her house. Now lets say he was not killed but arrested and brought to court, should the judge release him from the drug trafficking charges because the use of the money receive from drug sale to do good by building a house for his grand mother? So to sum it up, by whose standard do we measure our goodness, men or God’s? If God’s can you really understand how holy he is?

[16 cycles]

^ nobody talk bout rape or killing......

what we trying to understand is that if one lives a life according to the teachings of religion whilst believing in one different from your own but same value system - are they destined to damnation according to what you believe?

[toyo682]

^^^

The 10 Commandments - God's Revelation in the Old Testament
The 10 Commandments are found in the Bible's Old Testament at Exodus, Chapter 20. They were given directly by God to the people of Israel at Mount Sinai after He had delivered them from slavery in Egypt:

"And God spoke all these words, saying: 'I am the LORD your God…

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'

FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'

The 10 Commandments - Christ's Summation in the New Testament
About 1,400 years later, the 10 Commandments were summed up in the New Testament at Matthew 22, when Jesus was confronted by the religious "experts" of the day:

"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments" (Matthew 22:36-40).

A reflective reading of Christ's teaching reveals that the first four commandments given to the children of Israel are contained in the statement: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind." It continues that the last six commandments are enclosed in the statement: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
10 Commandments: The Origin of God's Law
The 10 Commandments are first recorded in the book of Exodus. They were given by God at Mt. Sinai following the Israelites escape from slavery in Egypt. The 10 Commandments were moral statutes given by God, through Moses, so that the Israelites could enjoy fruitful and holy lives. The Commandments were significant in that they formed the basis of Jewish life, law and faith. Inscribed on stone tablets, the 10 Commandments were initially broken by Moses in anger over the flagrant sins of the Israelites. They were then re-inscribed and kept in the Ark of the Covenant at the command of God. Four of the Commandments deal primarily with man's relationship with God and the other six deal primarily with man's relationship with one another.
10 Commandments: God's Standard of Holiness
The 10 Commandments were also known as the Law. For ancient Israel, breaking the Law was a serious offense. To deviate by any degree from the 10 Commandments was to sin and fall short of God's standard of holiness. Knowing that it was impossible for any human being to perfectly follow the Law, a sacrificial system mediated by the Levitical priesthood was established. Through this system, God permitted ancient Israel to make reparations for the sins they committed. As an example, an appropriate sacrifice would involve the slaughtering of a young lamb that is found to be without any blemish. The sacrifices continued endlessly, as did the sins. This system of blood sacrifice was not meant to be barbaric, but rather, symbolic of the gravity of sin. The annual Jewish holy day of Yom Kippur is a day of atonement that is set aside for the reparation of sins.

Although God gave the 10 Commandments to the Israelites, they do not apply to Jews alone. The 10 Commandments reflect God's standard of holiness for everyone. Since God is the universal authority of moral conduct, all of humanity is subject to His standards. According to the Bible, no one is exempt from God's Law. Some say that the 10 Commandments do not apply to them, since they did not grow up with "religion." However, the scriptures reveal that the requirements of the Law are written on our hearts (Romans 2:25), and thus, our conscience ultimately confirms our guilt. Wait a minute. Since most of us, to some degree, have tried to live good lives, contributing positive things to our families and communities, how can God fault us if we have tried our best? Based on God's standard of holiness, "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23). In addition, God is not only concerned with our actions, but also the condition of our hearts. In the New Testament, Jesus referred to the Law when He emphasized that hatred is tantamount to murder and lust is tantamount to adultery. We have all had these thoughts. Indeed, we have all sinned according to God's standard.
10 Commandments: Revealing Our Need for a Savior
After reviewing the 10 Commandments, some argue that God is unjust for imposing a standard upon humanity that He knows we can't fulfill. Doesn't it seem awfully cruel for a loving God to condemn man for the evil that is inherently part of the human condition? The response to this perplexing question lies in Jesus Christ. In fact, Jesus came to earth in order to reconcile this dilemma. Like the perfect lambs that were constantly sacrificed for the sins of Israel, Jesus was perfect and without blemish, because he was sinless. Like the lambs, He was sacrificed for the reparation of sins. Unlike the lambs, however, the sacrifice of Jesus Christ redeemed the sins of all humanity for all time. Unlike the lambs, Jesus Christ resurrected from the dead and conquered the power of sin for all humanity for all time. The Bible tells us why Christ had to become a sacrifice: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" (John 3:16).
10 Commandments: Love Without Condemnation
For many, the 10 Commandments are symbols of condemnation that point to our faults and mistakes. Some feel so guilty that they believe God will never accept them. Others simply choose to reject God because His Law is impossible to obey. Ironically, the 10 Commandments were never given by God to condemn humanity, but rather, they were given to convict humanity. The 10 Commandments act as a mirror to "reflect" the condition of our souls. When we examine our life in light of the 10 Commandments, we realize our shortcomings and our need for redemption. Jesus Christ is our redeemer. Therefore, God gave the 10 Commandments not to condemn humanity, but to show us His love for us. For, "While we were still sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8).


Do we all follow the same standard? Have you guys keep the first four of these commands?

To answer your question further I do not believe man is destine to Hell fire and damnation. The Bible is clear God did not make Hell for man, and that Christ death was so that all could except the punishment of a law because of our lawlessness cannot keep. Further if I did believe that you are destine to hell I would not waste time to try and tell you there is a way out, because if you are destine there is nothing can change that right. The law is not meant to condemn, we do not break the law it breaks us, it shows us that we have fallen short and we cannot keep up, and we need a Savior not and example. To follow Christ example, we would first have to be sinless, can anyone on tuner claim that they are sinless, I for one certainly can't.

[toyo682]

I'm not taking sides, but I DO NOT believe that most christians live according to what the good book says and there are many of other religious beliefs/followings that live lives that are much closer the teachings of Christ. In fact Christianity to some is the best cloak/disguise that there ever was right after being part of the CIA. I believe Ghandi and many other non-Christians who followed their beliefs to the letter will be in heaven. Based on the fact that I believe that most if not all religions teach only positivity - John 10:16 "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." Whom ever you serve, serve well.

You are quite right, in my opinion many Christians need to be saved. But it boils down to sin are we able to wipe it way by our own actions. Quite frankly what we think is not relevant. What does God think is the thing that matters. So can I reason the because there is no car in front of me I can break the speed limit, or is the that law absolute, or is it subject to my reason?

Oh FYI the other sheep are Gentiles since Jesus as talking to Jews, and he goes on the say that this is why he must die that essentially both Jew and Gentile can have eternal life

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ the terms of the law was set through the reasoning of others. Through their reasoning they were able to determine a safe speed limit based on a number of variables at that time.

So question to those who believe that good works would get you the heaven (if you believe in one). Do we need to repent and turn away from the sin we commit against God, that our good work nullifies as you claim. Or can we continue to sin? If so are you sorry for what you have done that is wrong against God? How many righteous works does it take to nullify one sin? In civil law that fines vary depending on the crime, is it this way with God? How do you know on the day of your death that your good works out weighs your back works? How do we measure it, or do we just hope for the best? Also if your good works are aim at appeasing God’s wrath, is your works of love? Do you really feed the homeless because you love them, or because it is another tick in your goodness column on the day of judgement? Do you really love God if you continue to transgress his law wilfully? Do you think in a court of law, if you say to the judge, yes Judge I did rape that woman, but I was good and kind to others he would let you walk away? If no why does your goodness not supercede, your one bad deed in man’s courts, but it does in God’s? Are we of a higher moral standard that God? Do we demand justice when God does not? Recently I was reading in the papers about a man who was killed, his mother was claiming he was a good man, and he only started selling drugs to help his grandmother build her house. Now lets say he was not killed but arrested and brought to court, should the judge release him from the drug trafficking charges because the use of the money receive from drug sale to do good by building a house for his grand mother? So to sum it up, by whose standard do we measure our goodness, men or God’s? If God’s can you really understand how holy he is?

wait, you in this "lack of comprehension" thing too?
nah man

Good is good. No one said you can do 5 good things and 1 bad thing and that makes you good. We are saying that you need to do good in everything that you do and that is logically more important than just having faith in a religious belief or practice.

Which is why we are arguing that it is more logical to see that Gandhi, in all his good works toward mankind is a better person than a person who didn't do all those things but strongly believed in Christ.

[toyo682]

^^^^^ It is both an man not either or

What about sin are you sinless. I am not disputing being good, I agree we should all do good in everything we do, but does it wipe away our transgression of the laws of God. If I go to court on murder charges, does the fact I have done other good allow me to not face the punishment for my actions? Are we more moral than God? that is what I am asking but it seems like we all lack comprehension in this place

[toyo682]

^^^^Yes but how does he say they will enter in?

1"I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. 3The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice." 6Jesus used this figure of speech, but they did not understand what he was telling them.

7Therefore Jesus said again, "[b]I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep. 8All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. [/b]9I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

11"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. 13The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.

14"I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

19At these words the Jews were again divided. 20Many of them said, "He is demon-possessed and raving mad. Why listen to him?"

21But others said, "These are not the sayings of a man possessed by a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?"

[toyo682]

^^^ Faith in what read it again, it was his faith in Jesus while the Jews were demanding proof the gentile believe he was what Jews believed he wasn't.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^^^^^ It is both an man not either or

What about sin are you sinless. I am not disputing being good, I agree we should all do good in everything we do, but does it wipe away our transgression of the laws of God. If I go to court on murder charges, does the fact I have done other good allow me to not face the punishment for my actions? Are we more moral than God? that is what I am asking but it seems like we all lack comprehension in this place

no lack of comprehension there.
which is why I keep asking, HOW do you know that YOUR laws of God are THE laws of God?

so I'll ask again, what makes you right and Gandhi wrong?

please note that circular logic has no place here.

[toyo682]

^^^^^ It is both an man not either or

What about sin are you sinless. I am not disputing being good, I agree we should all do good in everything we do, but does it wipe away our transgression of the laws of God. If I go to court on murder charges, does the fact I have done other good allow me to not face the punishment for my actions? Are we more moral than God? that is what I am asking but it seems like we all lack comprehension in this place

no lack of comprehension there.
which is why I keep asking, HOW do you know that YOUR laws of God are THE laws of God?

so I'll ask again, what makes you right and Gandhi wrong?

please note that circular logic has no place here.

Well really it comes down to either you take the Bible by faith for what it is, or reject it for it isn't. It is your right and the right of others to follow your path, but you have to ask yourself if there is such a thing as absolute truth and if there is what is it. I guess till then I will have to bob up and down with every other christian and look like a fool. Anyways, I have stated what I believe and why I believe it, but you can check my post I never said you had to believe it. That is your choice...

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ remind me of why you believe it?

[megadoc1]

nope a true christian will be biased to the truth

I keep asking, how do you know THAT is the truth?

and intolerant to evil, its either your on the lords side or the devils side
there ain't no neutral ground

Therefore every other religion is evil?
based on Jesus words, yes

you don't become righteous by works, you become righteous through faith in Jesus Christ

So God is more interested in us believing in him than he is in how good we treat others?
yes because when we understand how he loves then we can love

please don't lock this thread....

on the Gandhi issue....if he lived according to the fundamental teachings of the bible / christianity / other religions e.g. the 10 commandments....he still goes to hell even though he saw the world from a different theological perspective but with the same values that Christ taught?

you don't become righteous by works, you become righteous through faith in Jesus Christ
God is Holy and righteous, you cannot stand before God in unrighteousness
so it don't matter how "good" you are here if you don't put your faith in Jesus
you are seen as unrighteous in the eyes of God
and Jesus said the unrighteous shall not enter the kingdom of heaven
in fact he said seek first the kingdom of heaven and his righteousness
and all things shall be added

megadoc1, I now understand WHY you are wrong and strong
it is because you do not understand the meaning of the word "RIGHTEOUS"
really?

"Righteous is actually a made up word that was coined and remodelled after an earlier word "rihtwis", which would have yielded Modern English *rightwise or *rightways.
Righteousness therefore is one of the chief attributes of God."
"Righteous" chief meaning concerns ethical conduct. Righteous: integrity, equality, justice, straightness.good so tell me who you know can go before God?

Righteous does NOT mean belief, faith, submission, intolerance AT ALL.
nobody said this

What you seem to be confusing is the belief that "The righteous are those who trust that they will be vindicated by the Lord God." this is totaly false there is none righteous, God is righteous not man but he counts your belief in Jesus as righteousness. so I am as righteous as God through faith in christ jesus
,not by what I do

The key concept there is NOT about trust! The key concept there is still about integrity, equality, justice, straightness.
the key concept is about faith in the name of jesus

Again you fall victim to the fact that you lack simple reading comprehension skills
cool

Belief is important as it is the root of any religion, however the majority of all religious teachings is still about integrity, equality, justice, straightness (righteousness).
can you teach a dog to fly?,how can religion teach a sinner to be righteous?
again I say there is none righteous,do you know anyone who is righteous?
are you confessing that religion teaches something that cannot be attained?

I hope you can understand what i wrote.

[d spike]

can anyone on tuner claim that they are sinless, I for one certainly can't.

Megadoc does! What do you say about that?

[d spike]

sorry duane but to be a true follower of yeshua we must be biased and intolerant

This is the biggest heap of unadulterated crap I have read for quite a while.
If by "biased" you mean to prefer right to wrong, and by "intolerant" you mean refusing to accept that which is wrong, then I would agree with you. However, your warped and twisted way of looking at things will claim that YOUR system of belief is the ONLY one - and thus is "right" - and all else is "wrong".

I had pointed out earlier why it is that you refuse to accept the possibility that there are other paths to God, but neither you nor any of your ilk dared touch it ...all you could manage was a "that's your opinion", even though the dangers of fundamentalism have been well documented all through the centuries - but I forget, you don't read.

Help yourself, lad. Find a theologian who ascribes to your brand of christianity, and attempt some sort of learning procedure whereby you can clear up a lot of the misconceptions you cling to as "beliefs". Believe me, your faith will only grow stronger as a result.

Toyo, if the God you believe in, truly loves all men, and wants to draw all men back to him in the fullness of time, then he would certainly make known to all men what is needed to find themselves back to Him.
If so, then why would he choose one small group to disclose his "guidelines" to? At the expense of losing all the other souls who never met any representatives of this group?
What about all those who found out about christianity, but at the point of a sword? Certainly they would hear about what is required for their "salvation", but the indelible mark on their consciousness regarding this "salvation" would be the sword-point it came on, rather than the love of God - what if they discarded this "new" religion as soon as it was safe to do so? They too would be lost?
What about folks whose concepts of christianity are those given by people like Megadoc? When they refuse to accept the nonsense they hear, are they lost? (Remember, refusing to accept Christ is one thing, refusing to accept a heap of filthy twaddle is another.)

The bottom line is... YOU DON'T KNOW. YOU AIN'T GOD. DON'T PRETEND TO KNOW THE MIND OF GOD. You have either stumbled across a pathway to God, or your parents introduced you to it. Either way, hopefully you are working things out to find your way back to God. Don't be so presumptuous, or arrogant, to assume that you can tell others that their way ain't gonna wuk.

Do you believe Someone is in charge of this whole affair? If your answer is 'yes', then you need to trust that he has a plan - and you do your part. (Meddling in his affairs by messing with other people's lives isn't your part. To explain: we are all called to walk a path. Each of us has our own path. To stop walking in order to start directing traffic, or to go and drag people off their path to walk alongside you, may not be the best thing for that person.)
Reserve your ability to judge for yourself and your own actions - that is what it's for. Directing it outward warps it's ability to do good and to better oneself.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

megadoc1 you are being incoherent

you don't become righteous by works, you become righteous through faith in Jesus Christ

and then you say

God is righteous not man but he counts your belief in Jesus as righteousness.

but how can faith be righteousness? The meaning of those two words are different!

[toyo682]

]

Toyo, if the God you believe in, truly loves all men, and wants to draw all men back to him in the fullness of time, then he would certainly make known to all men what is needed to find themselves back to Him.
If so, then why would he choose one small group to disclose his "guidelines" to? At the expense of losing all the other souls who never met any representatives of this group?
What about all those who found out about christianity, but at the point of a sword? Certainly they would hear about what is required for their "salvation", but the indelible mark on their consciousness regarding this "salvation" would be the sword-point it came on, rather than the love of God - what if they discarded this "new" religion as soon as it was safe to do so? They too would be lost?
What about folks whose concepts of christianity are those given by people like Megadoc? When they refuse to accept the nonsense they hear, are they lost? (Remember, refusing to accept Christ is one thing, refusing to accept a heap of filthy twaddle is another.)

The bottom line is... YOU DON'T KNOW. YOU AIN'T GOD. DON'T PRETEND TO KNOW THE MIND OF GOD. You have either stumbled across a pathway to God, or your parents introduced you to it. Either way, hopefully you are working things out to find your way back to God. Don't be so presumptuous, or arrogant, to assume that you can tell others that their way ain't gonna wuk.

Do you believe Someone is in charge of this whole affair? If your answer is 'yes', then you need to trust that he has a plan - and you do your part. (Meddling in his affairs by messing with other people's lives isn't your part. To explain: we are all called to walk a path. Each of us has our own path. To stop walking in order to start directing traffic, or to go and drag people off their path to walk alongside you, may not be the best thing for that person.)
Reserve your ability to judge for yourself and your own actions - that is what it's for. Directing it outward warps it's ability to do good and to better oneself.

Well I am going by the Bible, I have no problem with what you believe, I have a problem with you twisting the Bible to prove what you believe. If you disagree with the Bible fine, but allow it to say what it says and not twist it to make it more acceptable. Anyways let me leave you with what the Apostle Paul said in Romans 1

18The wrath of Goda is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of human beings who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.b 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made,c so that people are without excuse.d
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.e 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became foolsf 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for imagesg made to look like mortal human beings and birds and animals and reptiles.
24Therefore God gave them overh in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.i 25They exchanged the truth about God for a lie,j and worshiped and served created thingsk rather than the Creator—who is forever praised.l Amen.m
26Because of this, God gave them overn to shameful lusts.o Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.p 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.q
28Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them overr to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,s 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents;t 31they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love,u no mercy. 32Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death,v they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
The Holy Bible : Today's New International Version. 2005 (Ro 1:18-32). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.


things never change do they, man look at the marvels of life such as the human body, and logical gives reason to believe it came about by chance, just like your toaster or car.