The Religion Discussion

[d spike]

Mega , stop playing games ,,, respond to what i left there for u TWICE. DOh insult me by playin yuh eh see it

I aint got time for you doo doo

nismotrinidappa since you decided to hide can I use this as your answer ?

Well, Megadoc, seems like someone doesn't have time for you either... and you obviously don't like how the shoe is squeezing you when it's on the other foot...

[d spike]

http://www.evanwiggs.com/articles/infinite.html

Wowser... numerology and anagrams got religion now... where is Bluefete when you need him?

[nismotrinidappa]

1 megadoc i am not hiding
2 please dont misquote me
3 you need to reread what d spike also told you. its a personal relationship between an individual and god. gandhi lived his life and did his deeds. you have to live yours now.

you asked me about gandhi and i gave you an answer again. duane nati d spike i et all have asked you questions and you have not answered them. i answered you. try and answer them now.

[d spike]

...the fundamentalist's need to PROVE his religion is real, is true, the stories really happened... simply because, his faith, despite what he claims, is not enough for him - for his faith isn't real. What he calls faith is really a warped version of true faith. An acceptance of ignorance isn't faith, neither is blackmailing a supposed deity into admitting you into his presence.

A remarkable point to note is the confusion of knowledge and belief, which only highlights the inability to grasp the concept of faith. Many of these people claim to "know Jesus", or to "know God", and this "knowledge" (which isn't knowledge at all, for obvious reasons) is what they build their faith on, and its paucity drives them to look for "proof" to add to their "knowledge" and give it a leg to stand on.

Let us be very clear on this point: belief is based primarily on faith, not on justification. If this were otherwise, then the events in the gospels would have been drastically different.

For those who believe in the Christ: if Jesus wanted all men to know he was God, and to accept without any doubt that his words were true, then all he had to do was come down from the cross (exactly what the Pharisees were asking him to do - for different reasons, though).
God (if he exists as the christians believe) wants all men to come to him, of their own free will. This means that each person must be free to make their own choosing - with no prodding or pulling. Evidence that God exists is precisely that.
Soooooo...
...if you believe in Christ, then you have to accept that EVIDENCE THAT HE "ROSE FROM THE DEAD" CAN'T EXIST (He can't allow it to). Sorry, but there it is.
To go looking for such "evidence", because you want to "reaffirm your faith" (this is called 'justification') is a poor excuse for lack of faith. If you wish to believe, then you need to ask for faith - "Lord I believe, help my unbelief".

Seeking answers to deal with doubt is part of life, but seeking validation for what one believes seems rather like looking for an excuse for believing or trying to justify one's faith for the benefit of others. Finding validation is great, as it can strengthen one's faith... but whatever time I have left can be better spent in ensuring a better quality life here for myself and those I care about.
You have within you that which you need to find what you're looking for.

The problem with faith is understanding it. Like everything else we have, it can grow, or diminish. Though faith seems to grow with application (will explain this) it isn't a muscle that grows DUE to flexing - a mistaken belief held by many, not just fundamentalists. Faith's seeming growth through application actually takes place due to consideration/reflection of past actions and consequences (the use of critical and analytical thinking)... NOT to the application itself - hence its direct link to human logic and intelligence.

Here is where fundamentalists part ways with reality. Faith grows with doubt. Only when you question, when you ask 'why', can your faith truly develop as the answer becomes apparent. The answer may take years, decades... but that is part of your journey. Sometimes, a negative answer seems to diminish or eradicate what faith is there, but that is not so. To search is to find... to find is to continue looking. That is our nature.
Fundamentalists refute this. Faith to them is the opposite of doubt - to doubt is to fail, to fall... To be totally adamant allows presumption to rear its head in your life, accompanied by blindedness.
Faith is not the roadway... it's the light you use to see your way more clearly.

[d spike]

The whole point of being a fundamentalist is that it negates the need for any wide-ranging study... all the information you need is inside one book. No need for spending time studying other books that were written by mere mortals (god knows where those came from), or spending money buying such books or installing book-shelves (use that money instead for a far better, more worthy purpose - pay tithes)

Fundamentalism does not sit well among dissenting voices... so allowing "science" and "history" to co-exist - especially where contradictions abide - is always a problem. "Education" is something they are quite wary of.

That was precisely why the Library of Alexandria was destroyed completely by the muslim invaders who seized Egypt. The General sent a message back to the Caliph, asking what to do with all the "wondrous" books that were within the Library. The response was: "If they agree with the Koran, they are superfluous; if they disagree with the Koran, they are blasphemous. Burn it."

Fundamentalism brooks no questions.

[illumin@ti]

he wont ,,, his arrogance is beaming now.. lol,

in his little delusional mind he thinks he's 'won' this debate of sorts.

he thinks that the only opinion that matters here is obviously his because he been havin divine revelations and powers like Constantine.. What a load of smelly horse shyt. Doc, i wont even need to quote or find any other 'evidence' like u do to show u how willfully dotish ur being. 100+ pages and you have learnt not one thing. The simplest of lessons to be learned has obviously flown way above your head. yuh come here profiling and playing like yuh a big and bad christian 'army of one' ,, lol yay army strong faith yes.. But the truth is ur a lil man with big problems. Ur arrogant, selfish, ignorant and conceited and u obviously think that nothing's wrong with that...

there are good christian ppl here who have contributed earlier in this thread and wont come back near it after the mockery both u and blue have made of a faith and conviction you completely misrepresent. I does wonder how someone could abandon common sense and reason and adopt this mindset yuh know, but you have shown me how sad and desperate a man can get when there's something missing in his life that he cant fix. So desperate you are that you resort to this behavior to comfort you?... Oh my..

Id love to see the look on your face when u find out for yourself how wrong you are....... the same yardstick you measure and judge others by will be the same one you will be measured by. Just remember that... and when your portion comes, sad it will be indeed. Have fun. Im thoroughly fed up of your nonsensical madness. Like Spike said earlier, it would be more functional if you found a cemetery wall or bus shed somewhere to scribble ur 'scriptures' ...

I vote for a Chedlock

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ Blind faith

of course IF megadoc1, Toyo and bluefete had an actual answer then we wouldnt be at the point of asking them questions for 103 pages.

no one questions if there is a Sun or a Moon or if there is Air.

Science says anti-biotics cure infections and they believe it. Science says that we have evolved from apes but they reject that.
They choose what they want to believe.

Science has proven to offer real cures, real understanding of how our body and our universe works. We take medication developed by science, we eat food developed by science yet when the SAME science shows how we got here, they reject it. Why? Perhaps because science does not offer them reprisal or paradise after death. They also feel that science cannot justify how moral values can be defined as there is no "10 commandments" put out by Science and Science does not judge.
What they don't realise is that science CAN judge: The very same chemical reactions and synapses that cause emotion are triggered by the actions of others. Do kind deeds, be giving and forgiving and these actions trigger chemical reactions in others to create feelings. Do enough good deeds, like Ghandi and Mother Theresa, and you "live eternally in greatness" in the hearts and minds of future generations. Do the opposite, like Hitler and you live eternally in damnation in the hearts and minds of future generations.

As Sky said "Science does not answer why, it only answers how"
which is WHY some people cannot live without religious beliefs while others can.

[megadoc1]

D spike I don't need proof that my father is real,it is you who have to prove otherwise.

again you return to a Christian website to learn about Science. What did you expect to find there except a biased point of view?

Duane u went to a Christian website to back up one of your statements
and quoted a piece and not even the conclusion
and you did not even post the link...talk about tricks

thing is same website caries the same beliefs as me
allyuh good yes

[megadoc1]

1 megadoc i am not hiding
2 please dont misquote me
3 you need to reread what d spike also told you. its a personal relationship between an individual and god. gandhi lived his life and did his deeds. you have to live yours now.

you asked me about gandhi and i gave you an answer again. duane nati d spike i et all have asked you questions and you have not answered them. i answered you. try and answer them now.

lol so tell me now ,who you really think yuh was fooling?
tell me this, you said you healed people and cast out demons before
how was it done?
when you was talking about familiar spirits, were you making a confession?

BTW D spike it looks like you were wrong

Mega , stop playing games ,,, respond to what i left there for u TWICE. DOh insult me by playin yuh eh see it

I aint got time for you doo doo

nismotrinidappa since you decided to hide can I use this as your answer ?

Well, Megadoc, seems like someone doesn't have time for you either... and you obviously don't like how the shoe is squeezing you when it's on the other foot...

[megadoc1]

he wont ,,, his arrogance is beaming now.. lol,

in his little delusional mind he thinks he's 'won' this debate of sorts.

he thinks that the only opinion that matters here is obviously his because he been havin divine revelations and powers like Constantine.. What a load of smelly horse shyt. Doc, i wont even need to quote or find any other 'evidence' like u do to show u how willfully dotish ur being. 100+ pages and you have learnt not one thing. The simplest of lessons to be learned has obviously flown way above your head. yuh come here profiling and playing like yuh a big and bad christian 'army of one' ,, lol yay army strong faith yes.. But the truth is ur a lil man with big problems. Ur arrogant, selfish, ignorant and conceited and u obviously think that nothing's wrong with that...

there are good christian ppl here who have contributed earlier in this thread and wont come back near it after the mockery both u and blue have made of a faith and conviction you completely misrepresent. I does wonder how someone could abandon common sense and reason and adopt this mindset yuh know, but you have shown me how sad and desperate a man can get when there's something missing in his life that he cant fix. So desperate you are that you resort to this behavior to comfort you?... Oh my..

Id love to see the look on your face when u find out for yourself how wrong you are....... the same yardstick you measure and judge others by will be the same one you will be measured by. Just remember that... and when your portion comes, sad it will be indeed. Have fun. Im thoroughly fed up of your nonsensical madness. Like Spike said earlier, it would be more functional if you found a cemetery wall or bus shed somewhere to scribble ur 'scriptures' ...

I vote for a Chedlock

I would not like to see the look on your face when you realize that this fool was speaking the truth
the same yard stick I measured and judge others by will be the same that
all of us are measured and judge by.

lol the one who resurrected the ched wants it lock now

[Alpha_2nr]

It doesn't matter what religion you're in.The point is to make you behave.

Exactly....many folks equate belief in religion to belief in God/a greater power.

It isn't the same IMHO.

[illumin@ti]

he wont ,,, his arrogance is beaming now.. lol,

in his little delusional mind he thinks he's 'won' this debate of sorts.

he thinks that the only opinion that matters here is obviously his because he been havin divine revelations and powers like Constantine.. What a load of smelly horse shyt. Doc, i wont even need to quote or find any other 'evidence' like u do to show u how willfully dotish ur being. 100+ pages and you have learnt not one thing. The simplest of lessons to be learned has obviously flown way above your head. yuh come here profiling and playing like yuh a big and bad christian 'army of one' ,, lol yay army strong faith yes.. But the truth is ur a lil man with big problems. Ur arrogant, selfish, ignorant and conceited and u obviously think that nothing's wrong with that...

there are good christian ppl here who have contributed earlier in this thread and wont come back near it after the mockery both u and blue have made of a faith and conviction you completely misrepresent. I does wonder how someone could abandon common sense and reason and adopt this mindset yuh know, but you have shown me how sad and desperate a man can get when there's something missing in his life that he cant fix. So desperate you are that you resort to this behavior to comfort you?... Oh my..

Id love to see the look on your face when u find out for yourself how wrong you are....... the same yardstick you measure and judge others by will be the same one you will be measured by. Just remember that... and when your portion comes, sad it will be indeed. Have fun. Im thoroughly fed up of your nonsensical madness. Like Spike said earlier, it would be more functional if you found a cemetery wall or bus shed somewhere to scribble ur 'scriptures' ...

I vote for a Chedlock

I would not like to see the look on your face when you realize that this fool was speaking the truth
the same yard stick I measured and judge others by will be the same that
all of us are measured and judge by.

lol the one who resurrected the ched wants it lock now

yeah,, i bumped, not 'resurrected' the thread , simply because you provided at that time some amusement and i was convinced you could troll this thread along with little support all the way up to 100 pages..... well we hit our goal and the conclusion that i and others have reached since page 10 prolly still holds... you have the maturity of a 10 year old when it comes to discussing something .... i wouldn't insult humanity by inserting 'intelligently' between 'to' and 'discussing' when im referring to you... I just cant see it. Me asking for this spectacle to end now has nothing to do with any sort of victory you might wish to claim. And most certainly it wont give you fuel to run back to your band of equally misguided 'believers' and bawl 'i win a 100 page argument bout god' im simply saying that im thoroughly sickened by the crap that seems to abundantly flow out ur brain and thru ur mouth - you might see it as you evangelizing. You have singlehandedly proven how ignorant someone can be in the face of opposing views that you vehemently discarded, similar views that you blasted for not being as good as yours, and views from the perspective of different religions. Madness... let's review

* Ur an Exorcist
* Ur a Healer
* Divine revelation
* Hitler was doing god's work when he gassed jews by the thousands
* You believe in generational curses and explain birth defects and disabilities/ diseases of innocent kids through that
* It was Gods will and work to appoint a Hindu woman as prime minister and depose Manning, a confessed Christian.
* You can use google and bing to search through anything biblical on the net
* You can Rebuke at will, ( yeah i rofl'd and lol'd when i saw this one)

And ur telling me that all of the above is true?
Go strong brother, i cant compete with your awesomeness

[Jonathan]

It doesn't matter what religion you're in.The point is to make you behave.

I didn't want to get into this, but if the only way to get humans to behave is to threaten them with eternal damnation ad infinitum, then things real sad indeed.

I, for one, can be good without religion; and I'm sure we all could, but we just don't know it, thanks to all the brainwashing/indoctrination.

[buzz]

It doesn't matter what religion you're in.The point is to make you behave.

I didn't want to get into this, but if the only way to get humans to behave is to threaten them with eternal damnation ad infinitum, then things real sad indeed.

Things are sad indeed but IMO religion is not only a factor for man to behave. We all have different ways of seeing things, customs etc. I personally don't subscribe to any particular religious denomination but if my way of life and belief can be considered a religion then so be it, it would simply be my personal religion which i believe everyone is (or should be) entitled to...

I, for one, can be good without religion; and I'm sure we all could, but we just don't know it, thanks to all the brainwashing/indoctrination.

Unfortunately, for most this is not the case, so i honestly embrace religion for those whose morality is underdeveloped AND for those who simply choose to do whats right based on the customs/beliefs/norms they were brought up in or chosen. Religion is honestly a very colorful and interesting perspective on life, sadly there are many ills that can come of it, as with any belief, its a flaw of the human race...

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ DITTO

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

D spike I don't need proof that my father is real,it is you who have to prove otherwise.

again you return to a Christian website to learn about Science. What did you expect to find there except a biased point of view?

Duane u went to a Christian website to back up one of your statements
and quoted a piece and not even the conclusion
and you did not even post the link...talk about tricks

thing is same website caries the same beliefs as me
allyuh good yes

I've come to the conclusion that you lack simple reading comprehension OR you just don't read everything.

When I quoted the Christian website I stated "I think you don't understand us because we are not speaking your language so let me give it a try:" at which point I quoted from a site that support your views, showing you that exorcism is not supported by the Bible.

Secondly I DID not go to a Christian website to prove Christianity or disprove its detractors. THAT is what you do.

And here is the link http://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-exorcism.html

I swear I am talking to a standard 2 primary school child.

[d spike]

Megadoc, you can really talk nonsense when you are ready...

D spike I don't need proof that my father is real,it is you who have to prove otherwise.

My argument NEVER was the denial of God's existence (I forgot, you don't read my posts).

BTW D spike it looks like you were wrong

Wrong about what? You consistently refuse to answer questions that are put to you. (The fellah even said as much in his response.) And you were nagging him to respond to your questions... so again I ask, wrong about what? (Every time you hit that "submit" button, you just demonstrate to all how right I am )

the same yard stick I measured and judge others by will be the same that
all of us are measured and judge by.

You really cannot read!?!? First of all, this was directed at the individual: What A PERSON is judged by are the tenets that person lives by. EVERYONE will be judged according to what they each hold as true. (There is a great deal more to this, but it makes no sense going into detail here, for you won't read it anyway.)
Secondly, YOU are out of place to measure and judge ANYONE. That ain't your job. KNOW YOUR PLACE!!!

* Hitler was doing god's work when he gassed jews by the thousands

I missed this one completely. Megadoc, did you say this?

[illumin@ti]

^ he didnt say it ,, that was bluefete... but i lumped it together with all the other ridiculous claims by the christian fundamentalists

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

I miss Bluefete
at least he could read

[illumin@ti]

duane,, dont tote,, he'll come back and play wiff us

[d spike]

^ he didnt say it ,, that was bluefete... but i lumped it together with all the other ridiculous claims by the christian fundamentalists

Bluefete said that load of crap? I'm sorry I wasn't in on the discussion at the time.

[illumin@ti]

People talk about the Holocaust in WW2 without realizing that it was a generational curse on the Jews going back almost 2,000 years.

"24When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.

25Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children." Matthew 27:24-25

Like i been sayin all along, these ppl are off dey fleckin rockers

I am not the one walking around with a bomb strapped to my chest and blowing up little children, men and women.

Food for thought spike

[toyo682]

toyo, back to me....
got busy http://www.islam101.com/quran/preservedQ.htm

to explain how do i know as i said,, my religion tells me this, like ur religion tell u that. the point i am trying to make is wrt the authenticity of the books where u get ur theology from.
your book, BY COMPARISON, is less likely to be true to what was originally intended, when considering the chain of events up to the previous to its compilation.
the original first manuscripts are not available, but the originals for mines are
and mines tell me that none other will remain in their original forms, except for this one, which is how it is,,,,, so stuff kinda being fulfilled there.

but without the little revelation about why none other will remain in their original forms,,
the mere fact that the fidelity of the other texts are very questionable when compared is enough for me... like what scientists do before the analyze facts, the scrutinize the source of the facts first, if the source is questionable, most likely the facts are as well and any further investigation would subsequently be futile

Archaeology and History Attest to the Reliability of the Bible
Written by Richard M. Fales, Ph.D.
The Bible is still the world's best seller, and has been translated into more than 1400 languages. It was written over a period of 1500 years by kings, statesmen, prophetic seers, intellectuals, and commoners. All 66 books of the Bible are uniquely in harmony and agreement with each other.
In contrast to the fans of the Bible, critics looking for the flyspeck in the masterpiece allege that there was a long span of time between the events recorded in the New Testament and the writing down of those events. Then they say another gap exists archaeologically between the earliest copies made from the autographs of the New Testament. In reality, the alleged spaces and so called gaps exist only in the minds of the critics.
Notice how no other ancient book's text is questioned or maligned like that of the Bible. For instance, Aristotle's Ode to Poetics was written between 384-322BC. Our earliest copy of this work dates 1100AD, and we find there are only 49 extant manuscripts. Note that the gap between the original writing and the earliest copy is 1400 years. A second example is Plato's Tetralogies, written 427-347 BC. Our earliest copy is 900 AD, and there are only 7 extant manuscripts to study. The gap between the original and the earliest copy is 1200 years. What about the New Testament? Jesus was crucified in 30 AD. The New Testament was written between 48-95 AD. The oldest mss date to the last quarter of the first century, and the second oldest 125 AD. This gives us a narrow gap of 35 to 40 years from the originals written by the apostles. From the early centuries, we have some 5300 Greek mss of the New Testament. Altogether, including Syriac, Latin, Coptic and Aramaic, we have a whopping total of 24,633 texts of the ancient New Testament to confirm the wording of the New Testament scriptures. So the bottom line is, there was no great time period between the events of the New Testament and the New Testament writings. Nor is there a great lapse of time between the original writings and the oldest copies. This means that with the great body of mss evidence, it can also be proved, beyond a doubt, that the New Testament says exactly the same things today as it originally did nearly 2000 years ago.
Critics also charge that there are not ancient writings about Jesus outside the New Testament. This is another ridiculous claim. Writings that confirm his birth, ministry, death, and resurrection are found in Flavius Josephus (AD 93), the Babylonian Talmud (70-200 AD), Pliny the Younger's letter to the Emperor Trajan in about 100 AD, the Annals of Tacitus (115-117 AD), Mara Bar Serapion (sometime after 73 AD), and Suetonius' Life of Claudius and Life of Nero (120 AD). Another point of contention arises when critics of the have knowingly or unknowingly misled people by implying that Old and New Testament books were either left out of or were added into the canon of scriptures at the great ecumenical councils of the churches which met in 336, 382, 397, and 419 AD. As a matter of fact, one result of these gatherings was to confirm the Church's belief that the books already in the Bible were divinely inspired. So, what we actually find, then, was that the Church, at these meetings, neither added to nor did they take away from the books of the Bible. At the time of the early church's ecumenical councils, the 39 Old Testament books had already been accepted, and the New Testament, as it was written, simply grew up with the ancient church. Each document being accepted as it was penned in the first century was then passed on to Christians of the next century. So, this foolishness about the Roman Emperor Constantine dropping books from the Bible is simply uneducated rumor.
Prophecies that already have been fulfilled from both the Old and New Testaments also add credibility to the text of the Bible.. The scriptures predicted the rise and fall of great empires like Greece and Rome (Daniel 2:39, 40). It also foretold the destruction of cities like Tyre and Sidon in Isaiah 23. Tyre's demise is recorded by ancient historians, who tell how Alexander the Great lay siege to the city for seven months. King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon failed in a 13-year attempt to capture the seacoast city and completely destroy its inhabitants. During the siege of 573 BC, much of the population of Tyre moved to its new island home approximately ½ mile from the land city. Here it remained surrounded by walls as high as 150 feet until judgment fell in 332 BC with the arrival of Alexander the Great. The siege lasted seven months, and during that time he fulfilled the remainder of Zechariah's and Ezekiel's prophecy concerning the city at sea by completely destroying Tyre, killing 8,000 of its inhabitants and selling 30,000 of its population into slavery. With Alexander's wrath almost complete, he now dragged 4,000 desperate souls to the beach and viciously crucified them. How could he reach the island that was a ½ mile at sea with an army of infantry and calvary? He fulfilled the details of the prophecy (Zechariah 9:4 and Ezekiel 26:12) and scraped up the dust and rubble of the old land city of Tyre, just like the Bible predicted, and cast them into the sea, building a 200-foot-wide causeway out to the island. Alexander's death and the murder of his twin sons was also foretold in the scripture. Another starling prophecy was Jesus' detailed prediction of Jerusalem's destruction, and the further spreading of the Jewish diaspora throughout the world, which is recorded in Luke 21. In 70 AD, not only was Jerusalem destroyed by the future emperor of Rome, Titus, but another prediction of Jesus Christ in Matthew 24:1-2 came to pass. The destruction and complete devastation of the temple of God.
In the book of Daniel, the Bible prophesied and promised the coming of the one and only Jewish Messiah prior to the temple's demise. There is only one candidate that fits this biblical scenario just prior to 70 AD. The Old Testament prophets declared he would be born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2) to a virgin (Isaiah 7:14), who would be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver (Zech. 1:12-13). The Bible further states that he would die by crucifixion (Psalm 22) and be buried in a rich man's tomb. (Isaiah 53:9). There was only one person that fits all of the messianic prophesies of the Old Testament who lived before 70 AD: Jesus of Nazareth, the Son of Mary.
Yes, the Bible is an amazing book. It was not written as a book of science, yet it contains many amazing scientific facts. When the rest of the world believed the earth was flat or was supported on the shoulders of the mythical god Atlas, or said that it rested on the back of an elephant who stood on the back of a turtle that was swimming in a great endless sea, the Jewish prophets wrote that (Job 26:7)M, "God hangeth the earth upon nothing," and implied that the world was round (Isaiah 40:22) when it said, "It is He that sitteth upon the circle of the earth."
Read the Bible for yourself! Don't rely on others who have told you what they think it says. It is altogether possible that an individual religious leader's interpretation is at best just that, just another man's interpretation. Don't get your facts from secondhand sources --- read the Scriptures for yourself --- and do it with an open mind.
http://www.drfalesbaa.com/index.php?opt ... &Itemid=40


The Dead Sea Scrolls
"The greatest manuscript discovery of all times."
By William F. Albright
The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls (DSS) at Qumran in 1949 had significant effects in corroborating evidence for the Scriptures. The ancient texts, found hidden in pots in cliff-top caves by a monastic religious community, confirm the reliability of the Old Testament text. These texts, which were copied and studied by the Essenes, include one complete Old Testament book (Isaiah) and thousands of fragments, representing every Old Testament book except Esther. The manuscripts date from the third century B.C. to the first century A.D. and give the earliest window found so far into the texts of the Old Testament books and their predictive prophecies. The Qumran texts have become an important witness for the divine origin of the Bible, providing further evidence against the criticism of such crucial books as Daniel and Isaiah.
Dating the Manuscripts
Carbon-14 dating is a reliable form of scientific dating when applied to uncontaminated material several thousand years old. Results indicated an age of 1917 years with a 200-year (10 percent) variant. Paleography (ancient writing forms) and orthography (spelling) indicated that some manuscripts were inscribed before 100 B.C. Albright set the date of the complete Isaiah scroll to around 100 B.C.—"there can happily not be the slightest doubt in the world about the genuineness of the manuscript."
Archaeological Dating
Collaborative evidence for an early date came from archaeology. Pottery accompanying the manuscripts was late Hellenistic (c. 150– 3 B.C.) and Early Roman (c. 63 B.C. to A.D. 100). Coins found in the monastery ruins proved by their inscriptions to have been minted between 135 B.C. and A.D. 135. The weave and pattern of the cloth supported an early date. There is no reasonable doubt that the Qumran manuscripts came from the century before Christ and the first century A.D. Significance of the Dating.
Previous to the DSS, the earliest known manuscript of the Old Testament was the Masoretic Text (A.D. 900) and two others (dating about A.D. 1000) from which, for example, the King James version of the Old Testament derived its translation. Perhaps most would have considered the Masoretic text as a very late text and therefore questioned the reliability of the Old Testament wholesale. The Dead Sea Scrolls eclipse these texts by 1,000 years and provide little reason to question their reliability, and further, present only confidence for the text. The beauty of the Dead Sea Scrolls lies in the close match they have with the Masoretic text—demonstrable evidence of reliability and preservation of the authentic text through the centuries. So the discovery of the DSS provides evidence for the following:
1) Confirmation of the Hebrew Text
2) Support for the Masoretic Text
3) Support for the Greek translation of the Hebrew Text (the Septuagint).
Since the New Testament often quotes from the Greek Old Testament, the DSS furnish the reader with further confidence for the Masoretic texts in this area where it can be tested.
(Generated from Norman Geisler, "Dead Sea Scrolls," Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics)

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

[megadoc1]

ok fellas maybe I cant read or understand ...
but get this we are all guilty of breaking God's sacred laws
the wages of sin is death
and the only person capable of paying for our sins was God himself ,so he took the form of flesh and made himself the ultimate sacrifice, for us to have everlasting life
but we must believe and trust in what he did for us
jesus died for your sins and my sins and if you leave this earth without accepting what he did for you, you will have to pay for it yourselves
everlasting death
there is nothing a man can do to become righteous in the sight of God
but believe on the name of Jesus christ



and it is easy as saying this from your heart

dear God I come before you a sinner, I am sorry for my sins
and I dont want then anymore I believe that jesus died for my sins
and I invite him to come and live in my heart.
Jesus, come into my heart and lead my life
be my shepard in Jesus name
amen

[buzz]

duane, brutal

[illumin@ti]

de hell? you havin a breakdown Doc?? Jusso ??

[megadoc1]

de hell? you havin a breakdown Doc?? Jusso ??

nope is just that as foolish as I am, when I heard Jesus' offer I was wise enough to take it.
it is so easy,....... life or death
I choose life

[MG Man]

Jesus made Duane do it

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

toyo682, what do you have to say about this then?
http://www.crivoice.org/circle.html

that the Hebrew word for circle meant "disc" and not globe or sphere