Creation vs Evolution debate tonight on NBC

[shogun]

Which is why at the end of the day these "debates" are useless. Notice the awkward lengthy silence at the beginning of his "response?"

People operating on an emotional NEED to believe, will always be impossible sway.

[Sky]

btw, when Bill says words like troubling, amazing, remarkable to describe ham or one of his idea, he means stupid

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Cant see the show because i have flow but say what would of been great to see this

huh?
It was streaming LIVE on youtube. Just needed to click play.

And as I said before evolution occurred after creation if anything...And i wont call it evolution but adaptation! Example of that being fishes no longer being affected to virus without the use of chemicals

not sure what your example is saying.

"Evolution is the change in the inherited characteristics of biological populations over successive generations".

[civic minded]

Any right thinking person today can really said that the earth is 6K years old? really??

[bluefete]

It's streaming.
So the question is "Is creation a viable model of origins in today's modern scientific era?"

Ham was asked if he was confronted with infallable evidence that there is no God, what he'd do. He insisted that there is no method and there will never be one that can do that.
Not being open for change is not scientific, so no, creation can't join the rest, simple as that.
He's also dodging a lot of questions. Reminds me of someone.

This carbon dating method is quite infallible, is it not? So when they tell me fossils are millions of years old is that give or take a few million years?

You would be surprised to know how today's scientists are very slowly evolving in their belief of creationism when looking at the scientific evidence.

[bluefete]

"Evolution is the change in the inherited characteristics of biological populations over successive generations".

So this statement ducks the creation aspect quite neatly.

What was there before evolution?

[ruffneck_12]

everytime this topic comes up i always ask why dont we still see evolution occurring today?

How do you explain insects being resistant to some insecticides?

[shogun]

I'm always tickled when creationists argue that because something may not be able to be argued completely/adequately as of yet, it automatically discounts the whole theory of the other side.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

"Evolution is the change in the inherited characteristics of biological populations over successive generations".

So this statement ducks the creation aspect quite neatly.

What was there before evolution?

organic matter

[V8 Boys]

Any right thinking person today can really said that the earth is 6K years old? really??

Any right thinking person would at least READ the bible cover to cover SEVERAL times then they would have seen that the 7 creative days the bible refers to in Gen 2:2 are NOT 7 literal days...as a cross examination of 2 Pet 3:8 says "let this one fact not escape your notice, in that a day with God is as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day"

It is only logical to surmise that that "one day" may even be several thousand years long...what a pity so many use that misunderstanding of a simple but factual scripture...to infer the non-existence of a creational force...but rather jump on the emotionally detached theory that life "evolved" from nothing.

Every house has a builder...wouldn't the same logic be used for that which is bigger, & far more complex which is the universe and all that exists there-in?

Oh oh wait...I know I know...the words "faith and belief" are subjective and broad and cannot be proven.

To think that an explosion or chance or natural selection could have been the "Genesis" of all life is the theory promulgated by so called educated and respected minds is beyond irrational and illogical...how so?

Would taking the parts needed to assemble a Rolex and putting them in a sealed container and shaking them for a kabillion years ever cause them to "come together to form a Rolex"?

Philosophers....hmmph...carry on...carry on.

[nervewrecker]

I does always ask where did the dinosaurs fit on Noah ark.

Where is that ark anyways? Shouldn't be hard to find seeing as though it had two of every animal on it.

[nervewrecker]

Anyone care to translate this and the rest of it about the metallic beings that came out with the three faces:

http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Ezekiel-1-4/

[X_Factor]

does it really matter where we came from?....we are here now....live in the now

what should matter is where we going or will end up

[sonygoup]

Yea but knowing where we came from points to where we end...i believe in creation because all of this life could have jus came up from some big bang
And also there is proof of giants on earth!

[X_Factor]

where we end?
when you look around at what is happening to our country, resources and the world
i think we already end.....

but we will ultimately lead to our own demise once we continue the path of war, global warming, genetically engineered foods etc

[stev]

the rate at which discoveries are made in science is moving so slow...while creationists continue editing selective text to suit the changing ways of life in society.

science is moving so slow because lack of funding ....well thats what I noticed these days (correct me if i am totally wrong)....eg. poor NASA struggling to do something new with their current funding....and no...they dont just send things into space...their research usually pave the way for a crapload of technology.

here is an example of things u didnt know that came from NASA:

http://list25.com/25-coolest-nasa-disco ... your-life/

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Any right thinking person today can really said that the earth is 6K years old? really??

Any right thinking person would at least READ the bible cover to cover SEVERAL times then they would have seen that the 7 creative days the bible refers to in Gen 2:2 are NOT 7 literal days...as a cross examination of 2 Pet 3:8 says "let this one fact not escape your notice, in that a day with God is as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day"

It is only logical to surmise that that "one day" may even be several thousand years long...what a pity so many use that misunderstanding of a simple but factual scripture...to infer the non-existence of a creational force...but rather jump on the emotionally detached theory that life "evolved" from nothing.

Every house has a builder...wouldn't the same logic be used for that which is bigger, & far more complex which is the universe and all that exists there-in?

the next question then would be "if everything needs a creator then who created God?"

Oh oh wait...I know I know...the words "faith and belief" are subjective and broad and cannot be proven.

To think that an explosion or chance or natural selection could have been the "Genesis" of all life is the theory promulgated by so called educated and respected minds is beyond irrational and illogical...how so?

so it is so far fetched therefore God did it?

Would taking the parts needed to assemble a Rolex and putting them in a sealed container and shaking them for a kabillion years ever cause them to "come together to form a Rolex"?

Philosophers....hmmph...carry on...carry on.

not knowing what a Rolex looked or worked like before shaking the box, how would we know the outcome was the correct and perfect one?

if our nose was on our forehead, would we know that the parts were put together incorrectly?

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

I think Richard Dawkins might agree that a force or god could have created the big bang but its in noway shape or form remotely related to the current gods we know be it the Abrahamic god or hindu etc

I cannot believe in this day and age people are actually still considering debating creation vs evolution.

There is no debate over this. The earth isn't 6000 years old

There was no great flood, thats absurd. Magic isn't real, and Abraham did infact try to kill his own son.
Today if a man tries to kill his son he would be thrown in an asylum.

Why then would we believe if a man from a couple thousand years ago who tried to kill his own son was anything but mentally unstable?

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

the rate at which discoveries are made in science is moving so slow...while creationists continue editing selective text to suit the changing ways of life in society.

science is moving so slow because lack of funding ....well thats what I noticed these days (correct me if i am totally wrong)....eg. poor NASA struggling to do something new with their current funding....and no...they dont just send things into space...their research usually pave the way for a crapload of technology.

here is an example of things u didnt know that came from NASA:

http://list25.com/25-coolest-nasa-disco ... your-life/

Creationists need the funding of government to live large. They need to live an easy life with tax payers money. So they will lie and do what is necessary to make people believe god created the earth and mankind.

Its all about the money.

Science is a threat to their livelihood and the more discovery science makes is the more people would realize the rubbish these people does be preaching. Thats why they try to shut down science, science is education plain and simple.

They are the same as the 98% of Airline workers in this country who keep telling me books are for crooks and school is for fools.

[RBphoto]

I had posted the debate to my timeline on FB and looks like someone reported it as offensive. People dread these days with their stupidity

[V8 Boys]

There is no need for me to re-quote here...but my initial post was divided and responded to with up-ended questions.

I wont go into that "one liner stump the logic with questions" routine with you Duane...it goes nowhere....I have come to realise that everything ppl say or believe today is subject to question. Very soon ppl will be asking why we have to say good morning, why do we need to be courteous, why do we have to respect older ppl...etc....

The mere fact that you could have questioned the absolutism of the Rolex logic proves that nothing is accepted by today's generation...as long as the word "why, how, when, and where" is there for them to use.

That is how I will leave it...you have your beliefs...heck no i'll use the word>"standing" and I...mine. Just as you have made my logic invalid from your perspective...the same way I view your questioning them without accepting the truth behind it.

The world has been coming up with these new expressions for a while now..."creationists"
as if it were an "option".
Well yes I tell you....just because they can.

Finally, the same way the new age thinkers thumb their noses at us old fogies for our belief in a creator and his "manual"...the same way we look down our noses at those that "come up with all that intellectualism".

Time will tell whether all that "philosophical thinking" gets us human's anywhere.

Time will tell.

[Rainman]

Do i believe in a higher power? yes
Does evolution make sense to me scientifically? Yes
Do i give a sheit which is which? No
Why? Because everyone is entitled to their opinion and should practice whichever makes them feel comfortable.

If you want to pray to a cow, goat, monkey, cobra...do it, it's your right.
If you want to pray to a cave dwelling pedophile...do it, it's your right.
If you want to pray to zombie Jesus, do it...it's your right.
If you want to pray to a 500lb chinese man who teaches self control...do it, it's your right.
If you believe in the flying spaghetti monster............you get the point

Only don't try to shovel your sh!t in the faces of people who don't agree with your particular flavor of belief (this is done by both creationists and atheists) and then criticize/laugh at them when they don't agree.

[nareshseep]

Religion is a dick....don't force it down the children's throats.... Give them the opportunity to choose... Anything less is brainwashing

[V8 Boys]

^^ perfect example of a "free thinker"....if you feel its right do it!

Hence continue with the pattern...if you feel to not say Good morning do it...
if you feel not to correct your children then don't.. if you feel to steal because you have little...then do it, if you feel to horn yuh wife because she getting old....then do it, if you feel to come out yuh car and plan-ass a man because he bad drive yuh...do it, if you feel to cuss if front your 3yr old...do it, if yuh feel to turn up your nose at the bible do it...etc etc etc.

And ppl wonder why the world is in such a state.

Just like the youth today who say "my fadda never beat me Jed" are a creation of "just do it-ers"...the same way people like yourself resent people like me who state the way things USED to be as a moral compass.

I wasn't laughing at or criticising Duane before but I am doing so to your line of reasoning now.

Carry on doing what you "feel" is right....

[antlind]

I knew this thread would contain some heated discussions......Carry on.

[meccalli]

Why do you think Christians feel compelled to tell others about the gospel? We want more support or your money?? No, and neither are we to force anything. Its a proposition for eternal life and chance to know your creator, through salvation. If we didn't care about what happens to people who could die any day, we could keep quiet. What happens to that doctor that knows you have cancer and refuses to tell you about it just because it'll ruin your day, week and possibly year. People just end up telling you how stupid it is and end up in meaningless debates like these.

[V8 Boys]

There isn't anything to be "heated" about when it comes to us being created as opposed to having evolved from "matter".

Those that promote such thinking as evolution have one clear motive for their theory...

that even though life today is the result of a "cause"...that that "cause" is not in any way to be linked to an "intellect" or "being" of any sort.

In every aspect of life today, there is chaos....ppl don't want to live by rules...they don't want someone TELLING them doh park there, don't throw out your garbage on the road, don't talk while you're eating, etc....and when someone with some MORALS comes along and tells it like it is....CUSS words have to fly, or label what we old ppl saying as toots.

[Fuzzle]

[Sky]

^^ perfect example of a "free thinker"....if you feel its right do it!

Hence continue with the pattern...if you feel to not say Good morning do it...
if you feel not to correct your children then don't.. if you feel to steal because you have little...then do it, if you feel to horn yuh wife because she getting old....then do it, if you feel to come out yuh car and plan-ass a man because he bad drive yuh...do it, if you feel to cuss if front your 3yr old...do it, if yuh feel to turn up your nose at the bible do it...etc etc etc.

And ppl wonder why the world is in such a state.

Just like the youth today who say "my fadda never beat me Jed" are a creation of "just do it-ers"...the same way people like yourself resent people like me who state the way things USED to be as a moral compass.

I wasn't laughing at or criticising Duane before but I am doing so to your line of reasoning now.

Carry on doing what you "feel" is right....

You keep aligning the changes with bad ones. This isn't a good way to do it. Knowing of you from your other threads I can see you're a good person and older than me.
But my experiences while alive so far tells me that the majority of people who has no manners, bad drive on the roads and have a general disregard for others is actually religious people. There was a whole thread about their driving. Your experiences may differ, or you may just ignore it. But from what I lived, they do evil to others on the premise that God's on their side.

And a little bit on how things USED to be.
We would have never spoken, and would never meet, because the thing you're reading this on was evolved from other machines with tubes, and simpler machines before them, and before them.
The cars you love wouldn't exist

And maybe Duane answered you with a question because he didn't have the time. The parts of a rolex is not at a molecular level. Not like simple matter. So while it would take a hell of a lot longer, it WOULD. There is a slim chance that it would. Just as slim as there is a God because a book said so.

And as you're only highlighting the bad from change, what if I do the same with the bad of religion?
The killing of millions at a time in the past because of their beliefs. The unjust justice system. Burning women you don't like accusing them of being a witch. Sadly the bad that sprung from religion grossly outweighs the bad that sprung from science and progress. At one point there was no science and mankind was at it's worse while religion alone ruled. Why do we call it the dark ages when religion reigned? That was supposed to be a good thing.

I think I have a good guess why you would defend creationism, but I can't speak for you. I read your thread. You think God saved you. I think your will power and inner strength through your belief saved you, but at the end of the day, God helped saved you, real or not. Do I need to mention the case if you were left in the hands of religion only and not science?

Not all change is good, just like not all stagnation is good. The issue is balancing them.

[meccalli]

This is a mistake, when assessing belief. You are looking at people when you ought to be looking at the source material. Religious people are lost people. Those people who killed millions or participated in witch hunts, who were they listening to. Was it God or a single entity like the rc church that dictated their version of the bible to people? Do you think they read the bible? Do any of those today who condemn it so much, ever read it with an open mind? Science neither has to be against God, the greatest founding scientists were Christian.