T&TEC not liable for damaged appliances after power surge

[wagonrunner]

what this is about?

http://www.ric.org.tt/home/publications/working_groups/FINAL%20REPORT%20-%20Damaged%20Appliances%20WG.pdf

seems that way.
started at the conclusion on pg 26. then went up to pg 23 Damaged Appliance Claims Procedure.
the rest of it is also geared towards T&TEC's current infrastructure and procedures, making them liable in some, but not every case.

[Sky]

When I buy a car, it's an investment, so I insure it.
I'm seeing poeple complaining about if their car gets hit, then someone else is responsible.
I'm also seeing people complaining that their car was hit, but they're insured with Capital.

If you buy sheit suppressors they will fail.
If your house is wired incorrectly, or not to spec, it will fail (btw, TTEC has been pushing this for the last couple years)
Breakers are supposed to trip, if wired correctly, they will trip.
They also have these outlet breakers around a couple years now. Also easy to change in.
High voltage can't be regulated when turning off/on in a way to prevent spikes/dips.
It's your stuff, protect it.

[Ted_v2]

It's your stuff, protect it.

[DTAC]

When I buy a car, it's an investment, so I insure it.
I'm seeing poeple complaining about if their car gets hit, then someone else is responsible.
I'm also seeing people complaining that their car was hit, but they're insured with Capital.

If you buy sheit suppressors they will fail.
If your house is wired incorrectly, or not to spec, it will fail (btw, TTEC has been pushing this for the last couple years)
Breakers are supposed to trip, if wired correctly, they will trip.
They also have these outlet breakers around a couple years now. Also easy to change in.
High voltage can't be regulated when turning off/on in a way to prevent spikes/dips.
It's your stuff, protect it.

It's your stuff, protect it.

It's your stuff, protect it.

Oh I'm sorry. I thought we were singing.

[cornfused]

After T&Tec fried the main board of my Sharp LCD in early 2012. It was on a UPS. CTC delays in getting the board I imported it my self . Now every device that has any level of importance , Fridges , Freezer , TVs, PC , charging station all have Breakermatic devices , some high end appliances here are sold with this surge protector .

Since then nothing T&Tect has thrown thus far has effected any of these devices adversely. For a power company to claim no responsibility at all is an admission of low quality of service .

[westom]

you beleive a surge suppressor is infinite in power protection. it's not. They have a VA rating.

Best protection you might put on its power cord is already inside every appliance. Most transients are only noise because that internal protection is so good. Some of the 'dirtiest' power seen by an appliance comes from a UPS in battery backup mode. Since electronic internal protection is so good, then 'dirty' UPS power is also ideal power.

Your concern is a rare transient - maybe once every seven years - that can overwhelm that protection. Nothing adjacent to an appliance even claims to protect from that rare and destructive transient. Despite so many who believe otherwise due to advertising and hearsay.

The transient that typically causes damage is hunting for earth ground. It is incoming to every appliance. But it finds a best appliance to connect to earth - destructively. Nothing stops that hunt.

However the solution proven by over 100 years of experience connects that transient to earth BEFORE it can enter the building. IOW protection is not defined by any protector. Protection is defined by the quality of and low impedance (ie 'less than 3 meter') connection to single point earth ground.

Some incoming cables have best protection when connected that short to earth only by a wire (ie cable TV). Other incoming cables cannot connect directly to earth. So we make the same connection with a 'whole house' protector. Lightning is typically 20,000 amps. So a minimal 'whole house' protector is 50,000 amps. Because effective protectors earth even direct lightning strikes. And a protector must not fail.

But again, no protector does protection. The 'whole house' protector is effective because it connects to what does protection. Earthing electrodes.

Power company is not responsible for that earthing or how you connect to it. Only the homeowner is responsible. That earthing must both meet and exceed code requirements. A critically important number was also provides: 'less than 3 meters'. And it must be a single point earth ground. Any wire entering a building without first making that earthing connection means remaining protection is that inside appliances.

Worse, protectors adjacent to appliances can even make appliance damage easier. Those ineffective devices also need protection provided by an earthed 'whole house' protector.

These are and have long been the responsibility of the homeowner - not of the electric utility. Most important is what most homeowners never grasp. No protector does protection. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

Based upon previous posts, many if not most should have plenty of questions. Due to too many assumptions, too much information from advertising, and a misunderstanding of where hundreds of thousands of joules must harmlessly dissipate.

[Sky]

^^^^ Long story short.
Is not TTEC fault.
It cannot be helped sometimes.
Wire allyuh house properly. Make sure you have someone who knows what they're donig. It's not just 3 wire here 3 wire there.

[pete]

Unplug your expensive equipment until the power comes back on.

[westom]

Unplug your expensive equipment until the power comes back on.

Damage usually occurs when power is lost. Not when power is restored. How do you keep the refrigerator, dishwasher, air conditioner, and smoke detectors disconnected?

[DTAC]

Unplug your expensive equipment until the power comes back on.

Damage usually occurs when power is lost. Not when power is restored. How do you keep the refrigerator, dishwasher, air conditioner, and smoke detectors disconnected?

Everybody seems to be of the opposite opinion. Myself included. Unless you mean when the power is significantly dropped in the moments before a power cut.

That happens every once in a while and that sustained low power can cause damage for sure, but I think mostly it's the power coming back in with a surge.

It could be that the closer you are to a substation or transformer, the more susceptible you are because T&TEC is sending 20,000 volts through the power lines and the transformer outside has to step the voltage down to a fraction of that immediately.

[westom]

That happens every once in a while and that sustained low power can cause damage for sure, but I think mostly it's the power coming back in with a surge.

A fundamental difference. I even design this stuff. We do failure analysis when damage happens. Reality is often contrary to popular urban myths. Most people recite the first speculation heard rather than always demand facts and numbers.

For example, low voltage does not damage electronics. If it did, then cite a spec number from datasheets. You won't. Meanwhile, a designer must even know international standards. One standard, that predates most readers, defines the entire low voltage region. And in capital letters. "No Damage Region". Could they be blunter. And still many believe wild speculation rather than learn facts.

Part of a design is to apply low voltage. To learn how low voltage must be when the appliance simply powers off. And with no damage. Damage from low voltage is a classic urban myth.

Sudden power loss is usually preceded by some anomaly. For example, a stray car striking a utility pole can create a potentially destructive transient. Or in one friend's case, a 33.000 volt wire fell on local distribution. Eventually protective utility equipment cuts off power. After damage is done.

With electricity, what most 'feel' has near zero credibility. Especially when claims are subjective. Credible replies must be tempered by underlying facts and especially numbers. Only the fewer (maybe 1%) can provide them - people who really know this stuff.

Now for power restoration. No voltage surge exists on restoration. Because literally everything is demanding higher startup currents. Therefore voltage rises slowly. This slow voltage restoration is hard on motorized appliances. And ideal for all electronics.

Why would you know that? In some cases, we increase electronic reliability by installing a inrush current limiter. So that electronics are starved of voltage on power up. To duplicate what happens when utility power is restored. This slow voltage restoration is ideal for all electronics despite hearsay and myths that wildly speculate something different.

Does not matter what the majority say. Because any answer without supporting facts, standards, or numbers from a datasheet is often speculation or hearsay. If you know low voltage is harmful to electronics, then provide manufacturer datasheets for that 'at risk' part. Nobody does for an obvious reason.

Most damage occurs BEFORE power is lost. A resulting blackout is often due to that same potentially destructive anomaly.