This anti-gang bill that is being debated in the house

[Sky]

obviously the police (and anybody else) would know the difference between people hanging out in front of a place like "earth and other establishments" and gang members congregating somewhere.
It is also obvious that the people who like to dress a certain way and act a certain way (be it whatever race they are) would also know where not to "hang out"
The "good" police officers would use this to help curb the gang related crimes. But in Trinidad theres always an exception to the rule, My view is, If you want to dress a certain way, and act a certain way and "lime" with certain people then take whatever you get. If you want to place yourself in the line of the stereotypical people that the law is looking at well then take what you get.

So you saying to leave it up to the discretion of the police then.


































































































Like tint?

[RASC]

^^^Exactly. Great Point SKY.

They can enter your place of none dwelling WITHOUT a warrant if they believe it is harboring gang members. So if somehow you own a warehouse or an office, they can raid/break into the space, turn it upside down, and legally have no right to ensure your goods are not damaged, or somehow go "missing".

I'm asking the CoP and national security to be tough, not outright foolish.

[Bizzare]

I think we need to do like Grenada - if you pants hanging off yuh a$$ wit all yuh ole drawers showing, is instant arrest

then 98% of the male nagger population would have been arrested.

*fixed

This is being very biased. Long ago this may have been true but isn't the case anymore. Nagger, Mammo, Chinee....same sh!t in Trinidad here now..... And you know that.

[SmokeyGTi]

(3) A police officer may enter and search any place
or premises not used as a dwelling house without a
warrant if he has reasonable cause to believe that a
gang member may be found in such place or premises


tha tis pressure indeed.. just get an officer vex, he go track yuh down and kick down yuh door...

[nismoid]

obviously the police (and anybody else) would know the difference between people hanging out in front of a place like "earth and other establishments" and gang members congregating somewhere.
It is also obvious that the people who like to dress a certain way and act a certain way (be it whatever race they are) would also know where not to "hang out"
The "good" police officers would use this to help curb the gang related crimes. But in Trinidad theres always an exception to the rule, My view is, If you want to dress a certain way, and act a certain way and "lime" with certain people then take whatever you get. If you want to place yourself in the line of the stereotypical people that the law is looking at well then take what you get.

So you saying to leave it up to the discretion of the police then.

Like tint?

YES i'm saying that.

I dont have any tint on any of my vehicles that may be deemed illegal.

I dont find myself anywhere that the people upholding the law may find sketchy or shady.

I do not "hang out" with people that may be looking shady to the law.

So all of these things do not affect me DIRECTLY so I have no problem with them.
Drastic times calls for drastic measures, actually the people who may find these measures harsh are probably the ones that have "cocoa in the sun"

I still believe there are more good police than there are bad ones and I have nothing to hide thats why I agree with them.
measures like these have to be put in place because Trinidad has become a lawless nation, no one obeys the law anymore, look at drivers on the shoulders, its a daily occurrence that has become the norm, and when the guntas on the shoulders, they pull on you and they are more "vexed" than you if you dont let them in.
thats just one example of blatant lawlessness that happens as the norm.

I say fack away with all ah dem, the harsher the better to deal with them.

[Sky]

obviously the police (and anybody else) would know the difference between people hanging out in front of a place like "earth and other establishments" and gang members congregating somewhere.
It is also obvious that the people who like to dress a certain way and act a certain way (be it whatever race they are) would also know where not to "hang out"
The "good" police officers would use this to help curb the gang related crimes. But in Trinidad theres always an exception to the rule, My view is, If you want to dress a certain way, and act a certain way and "lime" with certain people then take whatever you get. If you want to place yourself in the line of the stereotypical people that the law is looking at well then take what you get.

So you saying to leave it up to the discretion of the police then.

Like tint?

YES i'm saying that.

I dont have any tint on any of my vehicles that may be deemed illegal.

I dont find myself anywhere that the people upholding the law may find sketchy or shady.

I do not "hang out" with people that may be looking shady to the law.

So all of these things do not affect me DIRECTLY so I have no problem with them.
Drastic times calls for drastic measures, actually the people who may find these measures harsh are probably the ones that have "cocoa in the sun"

I still believe there are more good police than there are bad ones and I have nothing to hide thats why I agree with them.
measures like these have to be put in place because Trinidad has become a lawless nation, no one obeys the law anymore, look at drivers on the shoulders, its a daily occurrence that has become the norm, and when the guntas on the shoulders, they pull on you and they are more "vexed" than you if you dont let them in.
thats just one example of blatant lawlessness that happens as the norm.

I say fack away with all ah dem, the harsher the better to deal with them.

This is retarded. If you piss off an officer and he remember your face in a tint road block, he WILL make you take off your 35% if he bad mind. And that is the point. They got power to do that and it can be abused with the tint. Now they could kick down any door they want? You're really sheltered if you think all police officers are decent people.
Some are genuine, but some are VERY nasty. And you hadda be a damass to go this far just to support the PP.

I just hope Gibbs planning to setup some kind of internal affairs to keep the officers in line while they have all this power. Or else NOBODY is safe. Drug men already rolling with police. How far is bandits rolling with them? Bust in a house normal normal and raid it with the police. Plant what they want, take what they want, rape who they want.

[Sky]

Y'know what, I not finished.

Allyuh remember a bandit being shot while breaking into Singer in Curepe? He was executed in the Bangladesh area. I saw him by Farm road corner being questioned by police, then assaulted. Then they throw him in the van and gone inside Farm road with him. Next thing I hear a gunshot. Next day, "Bandit shot dead robbing Singer"
But he probably deserved it right? Doesn't matter what wrong he did, he did wrong. He deserved to be executed in the darkness and not put in court and jail. Because that is justice.

Anyone who thinks that walking the straight and narrow makes them safe with these conditions are gravely mistaken.

Scenario: You're driving and a police stops you and accuses you of doing something wrong. You know you're right and you protest. While protesting you 'give him lip'. The officer already has your lic and insurance in hand. Now he has your address in his hands (on your lic) and make a turn later. It's that simple. Now people would dispute giving an officer lip. Define giving lip.....

True story: I was working and an employee attacked me. I was working on a car under the dash and installing an alarm. I had a soldering iron plugged in and ready to do good work. He come and take it. Now he have a habit of using it and resting it on the ground next to the car, so I tell him plug it in when he finish, because I'll have to wait until it heats up to use it again. He jump up and ask what that supposed to mean. I say It mean what I say, I wasting time waiting for it to heat up. And that was with no attitude. I was hooking up wires and thats where my head was. He ask if I on he and rock a slap on me. Now I take it because:
1. I'm under a dash and he's standing above me between my legs
2. He bigger than me and I ain't dumb
When a meeting was called about it and they asked me what I wanted done, I said suspension for the most. They told me they're short on ppl and i say forget it. Later I hear the man was toting feelings because I working on the side and making more money than him.
HE IS NOW A POLICE OFFICER!. That ignoramus now has a gun and the right to issue tickets.

Now imagine bouncing that up on the road and trying to rightfully and honestly defend yourself.
Now imagine this officer has your address and can pass by you later and do what they want, plant what they want, beat who they want, rape who they want.
Your best choice is to shutup and let Mr. officer wrongfully make up his ticket quota for the day.

REAL officers hadda drink go home juice before any citizen can feel safe. And I'm saying this while having family on the force, having heard stories from one of them about holding 2 sprangers, making them race up the hill and the loser going down to the station. No contraband found yet eh.
I'm not saying all police are corrupt. A lot are just doing their jobs and doing it well. But here I was thinking with a Canadian top cop they would be more accountable for their actions. Now they're gonna be less.

[Bezman]

Hmm RASC have a point eh, Trinis really need Gibbs but they want a Borroughs, they want an action man and knowing the Trini psyche that would help galvanize citizens in the anti-crime drive, yeah yeah I see where you coming from with that

EXACTLY...the formula is simple you know.
During NYC's reformation, the tough talking "action man" was Guliani.

Gunta's HATEDDDDD him, the man used to come out and say flat out. WE WILL HUNT YOU DOWN and YOU WILL NOT ESCAPE! If you used to hear them fellas in Brooklyn talking "abuse abuse, fck Guliani".

Guess what? It worked tho...You can't fight ignorance with words, there is only one way to teach those bastards a lessons. You need to kick down their doors, lock down their streets and let the AK's start blazing in their tail. We need an action man. Gibbs is NOT an action man, because he ain't know nothing like that.

When Wyatt Earp went to the OK CORAL...you think he went to TALK to them men? Is blaze, that's the only way criminals learn. They don't understand anything else. T&T is the wild west right now!

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=344490&p=4938100&hilit=+lock+down#p4938100

soooooooo, you want the police to kick down doors and blaze guns like Wyatt Earp and now they passing the laws to allow police to have the power to do their job better and you are upset?? i confused too

[buzz]

They can enter your place of none dwelling WITHOUT a warrant if they believe it is harboring gang members. So if somehow you own a warehouse or an office, they can raid/break into the space, turn it upside down, and legally have no right to ensure your goods are not damaged, or somehow go "missing".

I'm asking the CoP and national security to be tough, not outright foolish.

And that's why there is an opposition

PP bandwagonists bawl PNM dis and dat but without teh PNM (who happens to be the opposition) the ruling government can do just what the fcuk it wants

i honestly believe trinidad still isn't ready for independence and if the thought chain expressed by many of political party supporters here on this forum is a snippet of the general PP supporter populace, we're not gonna be ready for it anytime soon.

Can we just build the smelter and ask england to take us back ?

[- Rovin's car audio -]

its still a draft bill so nothing set in concrete as yet not so ? - so hopefully they will work out d kinks ...











i feel CJ & rasc fraid dat if d law pass & they only stand up in a place together dat babylon go pick dem up 1 time fas fas .......

[buzz]

I for that too....take us back please

trinis have no idea what they doin...

ent i dead forkin serious

england in financial crisis now right, so we build teh smelter and let dem run tings

would be a good investment all around

[Cjruckus]

actually they will quicker pick up you and yuh creepers crew

on that

1Ploi!

I have nothing against the bill. It can be good if it is amended and properly thought out. It needs to be properly tailored for the type of Gang Warfare we have in trinidad. The last thing you want is a few Police to go Vigilante style in Laventille. Because as seen of late, the police do not have the fire power combat the gang element on the hill.

I believe the penalty for gang involvement should be tagged onto the offense. For example, 10 years for stealing a car, but stealing a car as a gang member should have another 10 years tagged onto it without parole.

This needs to be fought in the judicial arm of the country. Not in the hands of some ignorant vigilante police officer.

[evo-STI-k]

[- Rovin's car audio -]

actually they will quicker pick up you and yuh creepers crew

on that

dise small ting - allawe including dhanraj will chip up ah lil $5 each fuh ah lawyer ....

[Snags]

Lmao@the administration not finding any fault with the "nagger" comment made by Rallyfig.

[RASC]

actually they will quicker pick up you and yuh creepers crew

on that

I honestly think CREEPERS is a gang tho. Look at their members...all of them look like the "1raj" type. Not the type of people you would invite to a cocktail reception that's for sure

[nismoid]

obviously the police (and anybody else) would know the difference between people hanging out in front of a place like "earth and other establishments" and gang members congregating somewhere.
It is also obvious that the people who like to dress a certain way and act a certain way (be it whatever race they are) would also know where not to "hang out"
The "good" police officers would use this to help curb the gang related crimes. But in Trinidad theres always an exception to the rule, My view is, If you want to dress a certain way, and act a certain way and "lime" with certain people then take whatever you get. If you want to place yourself in the line of the stereotypical people that the law is looking at well then take what you get.

So you saying to leave it up to the discretion of the police then.

Like tint?

YES i'm saying that.

I dont have any tint on any of my vehicles that may be deemed illegal.

I dont find myself anywhere that the people upholding the law may find sketchy or shady.

I do not "hang out" with people that may be looking shady to the law.

So all of these things do not affect me DIRECTLY so I have no problem with them.
Drastic times calls for drastic measures, actually the people who may find these measures harsh are probably the ones that have "cocoa in the sun"

I still believe there are more good police than there are bad ones and I have nothing to hide thats why I agree with them.
measures like these have to be put in place because Trinidad has become a lawless nation, no one obeys the law anymore, look at drivers on the shoulders, its a daily occurrence that has become the norm, and when the guntas on the shoulders, they pull on you and they are more "vexed" than you if you dont let them in.
thats just one example of blatant lawlessness that happens as the norm.

I say fack away with all ah dem, the harsher the better to deal with them.

This is retarded. If you piss off an officer and he remember your face in a tint road block, he WILL make you take off your 35% if he bad mind. And that is the point. They got power to do that and it can be abused with the tint. Now they could kick down any door they want? You're really sheltered if you think all police officers are decent people.
Some are genuine, but some are VERY nasty. And you hadda be a damass to go this far just to support the PP.

I just hope Gibbs planning to setup some kind of internal affairs to keep the officers in line while they have all this power. Or else NOBODY is safe. Drug men already rolling with police. How far is bandits rolling with them? Bust in a house normal normal and raid it with the police. Plant what they want, take what they want, rape who they want.

HEY KANT who said anything about supporting the PP blindly? everyday you prove that your head is so far up rascist and cjjerkoff's a$$ that no one knows which of you is talking.
First point-
WHY WOULD I PISS OFF AN OFFICER?
Unlike you, like i said before I wont be doing anything to have the eyes of the law on me.

[nismoid]

Y'know what, I not finished.

Allyuh remember a bandit being shot while breaking into Singer in Curepe? He was executed in the Bangladesh area. I saw him by Farm road corner being questioned by police, then assaulted. Then they throw him in the van and gone inside Farm road with him. Next thing I hear a gunshot. Next day, "Bandit shot dead robbing Singer"
But he probably deserved it right? Doesn't matter what wrong he did, he did wrong. He deserved to be executed in the darkness and not put in court and jail. Because that is justice.

Anyone who thinks that walking the straight and narrow makes them safe with these conditions are gravely mistaken.

Scenario: You're driving and a police stops you and accuses you of doing something wrong. like what? You know you're right and you protest. While protesting you 'give him lip'. The officer already has your lic and insurance in hand. Now he has your address in his hands (on your lic) and make a turn later. It's that simple. Now people would dispute giving an officer lip. Define giving lip..... wake up moron there is a procedure for protesting any offence that you believe the police is charging you with

True story: I was working and an employee attacked me. I was working on a car under the dash and installing an alarm. I had a soldering iron plugged in and ready to do good work. He come and take it. Now he have a habit of using it and resting it on the ground next to the car, so I tell him plug it in when he finish, because I'll have to wait until it heats up to use it again who's soldering iron was it? his or yours?. He jump up and ask what that supposed to mean. I say It mean what I say, I wasting time waiting for it to heat up. And that was with no attitude. yeah sure I was hooking up wires and thats where my head was. He ask if I on he and rock a slap on me. Now I take it because:
1. I'm under a dash and he's standing above me between my legs
2. He bigger than me and I ain't dumb yeah sure
When a meeting was called about it and they asked me what I wanted done, I said suspension for the most. They told me they're short on ppl and i say forget it. Later I hear the man was toting feelings because I working on the side and making more money than him.theres always 3 sides to a story, your side his side and the truth
HE IS NOW A POLICE OFFICER!. That ignoramus now has a gun and the right to issue tickets.

Now imagine bouncing that up on the road and trying to rightfully and honestly defend yourself.I have no problem bouncing him up,, i didnt piss him off in the first place, and now if you believe that he is toting for that long, well apparently you have a problem.
Now imagine this officer has your address and can pass by you later and do what they want, plant what they want, beat who they want, rape who they want.
Your best choice is to shutup and let Mr. officer wrongfully make up his ticket quota for the day.

REAL officers hadda drink go home juice before any citizen can feel safe. And I'm saying this while having family on the force, having heard stories from one of them about holding 2 sprangers, making them race up the hill and the loser going down to the station. No contraband found yet eh.
I'm not saying all police are corrupt. A lot are just doing their jobs and doing it well. But here I was thinking with a Canadian top cop they would be more accountable for their actions. Now they're gonna be less.

[Sky]

^^omg lol everything went over your head. They made you wear a foam helmet as a kid?

1. Any way of protesting can be seen as disrespect to an ignorant enough officer.
2. It was the company's iron that everyone shares.
3. Not believing I didn't have attitude shows YOUR ignorance, so I hope you bounce up an officer.
4. You would fight under those circumstances? I hope you bounce up THREE officers.
5. None of those sides are yours, so who's you to assume what you want?
6. You WILL piss off an officer with your naive attitude. And I wasn't talking about me meeting up with him for him to tote, I'm talking about someone that ignorant in general. Jesus Christ you're dumb.


btw, I have nothing to do with ruckus or rasc. But your stupidity steps in again and assumes someone's for the pnm anytime they speak ill against the bad moves by your beloved party.
Know what's the difference between Manning and Kamla? Reproductive organs only.

[buzz]

yunno for all d sh1t UML does talk i think nismoid takes the cake for general stupidity

[zcarz]

drastic times dan so it's a good bill.. but police have to be careful who they arresting.

[Chimera]

Pissing off a police officer can be done simply because you're not the same race as him eh nismoid, eh matter how good you feel you are, and if you think you don't associate with the wrong crowd, officers have Judge Dredd complex,

Sooner or later, you will stumble upon a officer who just find out his wife horning him, and you might take too long to take out your license, then he will give you a setta tickets for diff sheit, yuh guh get vex, tell him "whammm boyyyyyy"

then yuh guh get some gunbutt in yuh head.

[wagonrunner]

so the gangs of people wearing white clothing with purple, blue, red, green stains, who are spraying themselves, and passers-by with coloured liquid.........................................

and the gang-members who congregate around a smouldering bamboo, which occasionally disturbs the peace.....................

oh lawd, doh talk about the gangs who litter the beaches, and block roadways through manzanilla, mayaro, etc, blasting music every month end..........................

i hope those for this bill, appreciate when those gangs are treated with, in the same manner they support.

[RASC]

Pissing off a police officer can be done simply because you're not the same race as him eh nismoid, eh matter how good you feel you are, and if you think you don't associate with the wrong crowd, officers have Judge Dredd complex,

Sooner or later, you will stumble upon a officer who just find out his wife horning him, and you might take too long to take out your license, then he will give you a setta tickets for diff sheit, yuh guh get vex, tell him "whammm boyyyyyy"

then yuh guh get some gunbutt in yuh head.

EXACTLY the point.

The bill is too loose in defining, who is a gang leader, what is a gang, and the associated penalties too light. For goodness sakes it leaves it up to the discretion of an officer whether or not they can raid YOUR property WITHOUT a warrant?

And you guys cool with that?

WTF

[RASC]

VERY-Where your only possible fighting chance is going through the hassle of the legal system. And why would any businessman/woman want to go through the trouble of "lawyering up", jail time, court fees and awaiting trail?


Under This segment of the Bill:

(3) A police officer may enter and search any place
or premises not used as a dwelling house without a
warrant if he has reasonable cause to believe that a
gang member may be found in such place or premises.


Scenario with Multiple Outcomes:

1Police Vehicle
2Police Officers
You a Businessman/woman with a warehouse(property of none dwelling)

They monitor who owns which warehouse. They see you, the owner of the warehouse making his routine stop by and check up on inventory. The officers pull up.

"Sir do you own this warehouse? We come to do a search"
"Wait, hold up do you have a warrant?"
"NO, but under the Anit-Gang Bill we have reasonable suspicion to believe you and your warehouse are harboring gang members, and their paraphernalia. We are allowed to search property that is not used as a dwelling without a warrant legally."
"Nah that doh sound right, furthermore I am a legitimate businessman and would have no dealings with those kind of people."
"Well then you wounldn't mind us looking around, besides it'll only take a few minutes to find them-I sure they still hiding in here...wait outside please while we conduct the investigation...we were chasing a few of them guntas last night, and 3 of them jumped into this property and successfully evaded our presence. They had to know where they were going"
"But from last night to this morning, why the hell would they still be here..that doh make no sense"
"Sir just stand over there please...here is a copy of the bill if you don't believe us"
"...... "

All they have to do, is plant a brick of cocaine or ammunition for a gun, or compressed marijuana on the inside, hell even a gun...and your arse going down!

"Sir hear what, we find drugs and ammunition here, and guess what you is a big boy...and you importing and exporting everyday-who is your supplier"
"What the hell...I dunno where that mess came from"
"Doh play chupid with us...hear what we can do this two ways, either all 3 of us figure out a way to sweep this under the rug now, or we going to central booking"
"Buh wha de..."
"Look I don't wanna put you through all that stress of locking you up, getting lawyer, and of course this making the press...you eh want all that headache...let we organise some form of payment and we go forget this ever happen"

S I M P L E

Everything is left up to the police officers out there. The same police officers that stripping allyuh tint, taking bribe on the streets and rat always eating the cocaine and drugs in the precinct. Thas who allyuh trusting to carry out raids at THEIR own discretion WITHOUT a warrant? Without a balance in your favor?

Allyuh must be mad. This Bill has my support, but in its current form it is ULTIMATE nonsense! Because you'll be charged under three infractions:

Harboring and Concealing-The officer just said they knew to come into YOUR property and were able to flee from the cops.

Possession of firearms and ammunition-for use by gang members.

Possession of illicit drugs for the financial gain and promotion of the gang.

All listed below:

7. A person who has in his possession or under his care
or control a bullet-proof vest, firearm or ammunition,
whether lawfully obtained or not, which he intends or
ought to know will be used for the benefit of or at the
direction of a gang, or any gang member, commits an
offence and is liable on conviction on indictment to a fine
of four hundred thousand dollars and to imprisonment
for fifteen years.

8. A person who harbours or conceals a person whom
he knows is a gang member and whom he knows is
wanted by any member of the law enforcement authorities
commits an offence and is liable on summary conviction to
a fine of one hundred and fifty thousand dollars and to
imprisonment for five years.

I just thought this up off the top off my head. Now imagine too crooks with the POWER and legality to do something like this. Easy pickings for them. No WARRANT and a LEGALLY binding search, arrest and prosecution? It's your word against TWO cops. You're an importer/exporter and you have a warehouse with guns, ammunition and drugs...which businessman would wanna go through that to PROVE their innocence in court?

[Humes]

I was with yuh until you implied that a businessman could be touched by the law.

[RASC]

I was with yuh until you implied that a businessman could be touched by the law.

It does not have to be a businessman. It could be anyone who owns a property of none dwelling. I used it as an example.
Furthermore not every business man in T&T are rolling in dough. What about the smaller proprietors? They would be even easier targets because the officers know they would not have the resources, time, nor patience to battle it out in court.

[Humes]

I want you to imagine a lolcat picture with a cat sticking out its middle claw and snarling at you.

The caption reads: SHUT THE FCK UP. REALLY. SHUT...THE FCK...UP.

Imagine a picture like that.

Just imagine.

[sMASH]

this bill so full of 'kinks' i could use it instead of galvanize.
there needs to be a lot of regulations to protect the citizens from corrupt officers.
before they pass something so extreme, they need to GUARANTEE that the persons enforcing them will not abuse the liberties afforded by it.

that being said, it to vague and abusive to even reach to parliament, this needed much more deliberation.

they have good intentions, but poor method and reasoning.

if it was twice as dotish, and intended to allow money to pass though some minister's hands, i might have taken it to be a pnm bill.

[RASC]

I can't believe the PP tried to push this on the People of Trinbago.

It doesn't properly define a Gang.
It doesn't identify properly what a Gang Leader may be.
It doesn't present a balance to the accused in anyway.
So many loop holes and kinks, can easily be exploited.
It has MAJOR breeches in the sovereignty of land ownership.

This Bill would be the perfect tool for a corrupt official to exploit. LEGALLY.