The Religion Discussion

[megadoc1]

allyuh realize Megadoc1 getting vex

Wham soldier? u eh get no Jesus juice today?

From trying to save us all, now he just saying "SHUT UP!"

Thats the scorn and hypocrisy shining thru that mask of his..

round and round we go, and we will no doubt see that he's a phony... Doc, go back under yuh tent and beat yuh tambourine fuh tithes eh.

Come better than this pappyshow if yuh intent is actually to save ppl and shepherd them to the light of God

lol @ getting angry you all don't even know your purpose on here .

Fass and outta place - so what? YOU know my purpose?

You know where i've been and could know what i've seen and done? If this is what being 'godly' is then give me some of that other thing yes. You're a joke Doc....... and u cant get it through ur thick skull yet.

well hurray lets celebrate ........ you still holding that seat for me?

[illumin@ti]

remember megadoc1, you are the one making the claims of healing, divine revelation and exorcism; we don't have to prove what you are saying is true, you do!

so do it!
no! I don't, not because you don't believe me, means it is not true
i don't need your approval
and God don't need your approval for for his work to be true you are limited by your belief

so typical of you eh... Backed into the corner by your own words? Hit them the old 'God says so, your opinion/ approval dont matter' line. They should incarcerate and study you yes. if it have more ppl out here just as deluded as u, we in trouble. BIG trouble.

Question, when did the good man bestow dem real badup powers pon you.. what, did he do it with condition? can u only heal and exorcise in line of sight, or can u do it over internet, like now? Its my opinion that ur a quack, and a very bad one at that. A self absorbed looney. I might have demons, can you get them out for me?? whats my salvation status btw? YOU CANT ANSWER THAT CAN YOU ?

Science and logic offers sensible ways to address and solve problems, through theorizing, testing, experimentation and general scientific principles that govern how we extract answers from unknowns.

What you peddle so shamelessly isnt faith, its called blinders, is bess yuh just call it a security soundproof pillowcase. Reason being you have no sight of anything once yuh throw it over yuh head and yuh talkin so much bullsh!t i could swear its from yuh brain not gettin enough oxygen. That sweet feeling u have in yuh head is not God's divine glory samuel..... Its called asphyxiation .

While you pose here like the baddest saved 'christian' ever, the world has real problems. I see people like you everyday, the talkers, they shout hallelujah all the time in the church but funny, we dont see you on the ground doing the work. We wont ever see you helping build that school, or fix that roof or help the blind destitute across the road or even help your own neighbor. No. we only see u at the church door going in for your Jesus fix. You miss the point completely. If YOU are supposed to represent how a christian should be, in ministering to his fellow man, believer or non believer, you have failed. I know yuh go come with some tired a$$ line bout ' is god wey count, i doh hadda prove nothing to you'

Is YOU who open up yuh boastful lyin mouth bout yuh divine revelations and healing and exorcisms. YOU have no proof of this to show anyone, and not even most importantly before the God that you profess to know better than all here. You shouted, we called your bluff, guess what? no dice - u fail. There has been indeed a revelation, you can google bible quotes extremely well - woop-tee-firetruckin-doo, what other neat trick can u do? sit? roll over?...

what you would have us do? believe that you conjure up scenes like this:


CHOREGRAPHED BS

Your organisation, i wont even call it a church, needs a non stop line of mindless people that cant solve their own problems to subscribe to this 'faith' so that yuh pastor and his wife and who ever else high up on the pecking list could get to drive in dey fancy camry and Q7... bought with the dotish ppl tithe money.. Truth is yall need scenes like those above. I feel you wanna drive a lil A4 or sum yuh know.... Ah tell yuh, start de church... Build it, they will come..

Sad that yuh so ready to knock islam, ever seen the humility and devotion in Islamic Prayer?. Could you fathom or even appreciate the way in which they address worship? No you cant, Islam is the devil, Hinduism is the devil, Buddhists are all freakin devils. And so you will remain... one man, adrift in a sea, ignorant and righteous holding onto your life preserver, shouting the praises of your lord.... hallelujah ent?

BLASTED FRAUD
yes, ah say it, complain to a mod about it if yuh eh like it.

[sMASH]

^ early on in this thread I shared it with a priest at the Regional Seminary on Mt. St. Benedict. His reaction was the same to Bluefete's rantings. he said Bluefete was doing Christianity more harm than good. like he don't understand God or what? he feel is some kinda product for a company he selling? who is man to harm the image of God?
or was it something you felt comfortable hearing ?

an arbitrary statement like " jesus is god" cannot be more good, more humane, more inspiring, more helpful, than giving a small orphan child food or a place to stay

megga, in your opinion, which is more beneficial and selfless, to utter the statement 'jesus is god' or to help an orphan child?

can,t I do both? should i be only limited to helping a child?

very good question IMO

remember megadoc1, you are the one making the claims of healing, divine revelation and exorcism; we don't have to prove what you are saying is true, you do!

so do it!
no! I don't, not because you don't believe me, means it is not true
i don't need your approval
and God don't need your approval for for his work to be true you are limited by your belief

megga, if u could do one or the other, which would god bless more?
if there are two persons, one saying 'jesus is god' and another helping the needy of society, who would god bless more? who is more pious according to your teachings/learning?

do not cop out by saying that doin both is possible, the question is along the lines of either, between, disunited,,, because persons do only one, so which is the better to do, or who will be blessed more?

[d spike]

megga, in your opinion, which is more beneficial and selfless, to utter the statement 'jesus is god' or to help an orphan child?can,t I do both? should i be only limited to helping a child?

megga, if u could do one or the other, which would god bless more?
if there are two persons, one saying 'jesus is god' and another helping the needy of society, who would god bless more? who is more pious according to your teachings/learning?

do not cop out by saying that doin both is possible, the question is along the lines of either, between, disunited,,, because persons do only one, so which is the better to do, or who will be blessed more?

Smash, in all fairness, this isn't a just/fair question, as in order for either choice to be a definite option, each must be totally divorced from the other (in which case, the right answer is blatant - we used to call this sort of thing "beatnik" philosophy ) and this can't exist in real life. (It is interesting to note Megadoc's answer, as he glimpses that something seems wrong with his preferred choice - hence his grasping at both at the same time... the interesting bit is he doesn't even realise that his silently preferred choice is defensible due to the fact that as a pure /sterile option, it cannot exist in isolation. This just shows his inability to link his religious beliefs to reality.)
To admit that "Jesus is god" (or whatever other option one prefers) is all well and good - after all one should be able to define one's beliefs... but application of one's religion is supposed to better one's life and the life of those around you... so the real question to ask Megadoc is if he thinks that the two options CAN be separated...

^ early on in this thread I shared it with a priest at the Regional Seminary on Mt. St. Benedict. His reaction was the same to Bluefete's rantings. he said Bluefete was doing Christianity more harm than good.

like he don't understand God or what? he feel is some kinda product for a company he selling? who is man to harm the image of God?
or was it something you felt comfortable hearing ?

This guy DOES NOT READ. I explained earlier what is meant by 'Christianity', but he still happily confuses it with other concepts. How could a type of religion (a way of thinking about a deity) be the deity itself, or its image?

no! I don't, not because you don't believe me, means it is not true
i don't need your approval
and God don't need your approval for for his work to be true you are limited by your belief

Well, well, well... the more things change, the more they stay the same...
Megadoc is up to his old stunt-pulling routine again, where he makes statements, then refuses to back them up... First, I was a liar... now it's "Megadoc, healer & exorcist, step right up, he's good for what ails ya..."

Yelling "shut up" at folks who disagree with you somehow doesn't seem rather convincing...

[QG]

http://www.artonyou.com/Evil%20Jesus.jpg

Remember this pic you posted on your day of judgement with the Lord!
For you will take an account for that.

It's okay that you don't believe the Christian faith, but please refrain from such doing!

Why?
You believe your God is the one and only true God, and all others are false/fakes/demons.


I believe the your God is a fake/demon/false.

Whats the difference?

Your bible say he's God?

But I don't criticise other people's belief. If you had an experience with another Christian who does, don't take it out on all!

And I respect your belief, that's what you honestly believe.
I have many Hindu/Muslim/Christian friends and we all co-exist, I don't condemned anyone for their religious practice!

Instead, I learn from them.

[d spike]

allyuh realize Megadoc1 getting vex

Wham soldier? u eh get no Jesus juice today?

From trying to save us all, now he just saying "SHUT UP!"

Thats the scorn and hypocrisy shining thru that mask of his..

round and round we go, and we will no doubt see that he's a phony... Doc, go back under yuh tent and beat yuh tambourine fuh tithes eh.

Come better than this pappyshow if yuh intent is actually to save ppl and shepherd them to the light of God

lol @ getting angry you all don't even know your purpose on here .

Blind and foolish one! There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT see...
You have surrounded yourself with many of the clues to our purpose here, but your self-induced myopia has disabled you from seeing the gift in your hands - you just concern yourself with the wrapping-paper and ribbons.

To believe in personal salvation is all well and good, but that cannot be the be-all-and-end-all of your religion... The mantra of "I am saved!" cannot be the focal point of the human relationship with the Creator - this is a very selfish viewpoint. To have a "personal relationship with God" is a good thing, but we were put here as a people, to achieve something as a people. (One reason why suicide is wrong.) Life is beautiful, but too short for an individual to achieve God's plan (if there is one) on his own. We each go through life, meeting far too many individuals, to interact fully with each... far too many problems and ills exist for any one of us to deal with - alone. We can run to a "God" for solace, but in every example of this, we are told that the answer lies within us as a people. We are "Christ" to each other - or whatever you want to call it.

We are called as a people to achieve something wonderful, over time (hence the reason for procreation) and this is what was meant for us.
The world isn't going to end in a fit of God's anger and frustration with our inability to do what's right (that would mean the Devil won and God failed, wouldn't it?) but when we succeed in doing our part in the Great Scheme of things/"God's plan".

Most christians should view 'worship' as the purpose of creation, but this statement means more than most would assume, as the concept of 'worship' differs. 'Worship' can easily be seen as meaning the joyous (and sometimes cacophonic) shouting and singing one sees being 'performed'... but this is just a very small part (and optional) part of what 'worship' is.
If you give a young lad a bicycle, you would be rather upset if he never rides it. We were placed here among the Creation, to be part of it. One can worship the Creator by enjoying his Creation! (To further illustrate the point I wish to make: If you had a pretty wife, how would you show her every night how glad you were to be her husband? )
So if you think about it, those who enjoy life to the fullest, and revel in their existence, are worshiping God. (They, in some way, have clearly understood PART of why we are here - and they will discover more as they journey through life... BUT IN THEIR OWN TIME.
You need to ask yourself (NOT other people... Megadoc1 had it wrong from the starting line) if you believe Someone is in charge of this whole affair. If your answer is 'yes', then you need to trust that he has a plan - and you do your part. (Meddling in his affairs by messing with other people's lives isn't your part. To explain: we are all called to walk a path. Each of us has our own path. To stop walking in order to start directing traffic, or to go and drag people off their path to walk alongside you, may not be the best thing for that person.)

Now the worship of the Creator by man is of three basic types: individual, communal and universal. Individual worship is self-explanatory, as is communal. Universal worship (can't remember the proper scholastic term, but bear with me and my failing mind) concerns the Creator's plan for us, and is the main reason for our creation. We were brought into being - whether created in an instant, or brought into creation over a period of time (evolved?), is neither here nor there - as a race that propagates itself, and hands down knowledge across generations. This has to be for a reason. We are meant to achieve something... something good and wonderful... so wonderful, that everyone will be aware of it and its meaning... and the role the Creator played in all time. This is the plan. Its achievement will be the glory of our race, and to the greater glory of him who made us, and gave us the gifts to achieve. All will realise... "Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess..." (Unfortunately, many people see the end of our time here as cataclysmic - thanks to the apocalyptic idiom used by the Jews - and a sort of 'victory dance' for "us" to do over the defeated "them".)

You were asked to do this by witnessing. It is unfortunate that folks think witnessing means talking and preaching - far from it. Witnessing means to live your life in such a way, that what you believe is seen in what you do. Gandhi said, "I like your Christ, but I do not like your christians." This was exactly what he was referring to. It is because of this hypocritical attitude that I use a common "c" when I refer to these "christians". (Remember this: 'What you are doing is speaking so loudly that I cannot hear what you say.')

So, we are called to love, to find the Source of love, to live in it, revel in it, and to share it with others. Remember we were told that the greatest commandment was to love one another...

I'm not saying to go through life wearing rose-coloured spectacles, far from it. We came from the dirt, we will return to it someday, and in between, we get dirty. Our ability to discern right/wrong action is a gift we are to use - for our own guidance. Reserve your ability to judge for yourself and your own actions - that is what it's for. Directing it outward warps it's ability to do good and to better oneself. Let it suffice to say that your knowledge of right and wrong is for you to decide what is truth for you, what is acceptable for you... not to tell others what to do or believe. They must be allowed to exercise that same gift in their lives - in order for the choice they make to be truly theirs.

[sMASH]

de man saying that his concept of god is the only one for theists to follow. i have no problem with falling inline with that concept as the one i follow tells me that if i get sumting better, to do that as it would be better for me. so we evaluating the logic constructs as they propose them to be.

they come up with this unnatural thing that the only way to get to heaven is to believe that jesus is god. i already am accustomed to one which tells me i should to acknowledge god, but that is only part, and that doing good service to my fellow man is also part.
a person not being exposed to islam can do good service to fellow men, and be blessed here or be granted favor in the hereafter for doing that. a person who acknowledges god would also be blessed and gain favorably after wards for doing that. if they do that alone, and do not be good to their fellow men, they may not be blessed because they do not follow the instructions which teaches to be good to the fellow men.
he tells me, the only important thing is to believe in jesus is god, and if u dont, u go to hell. where as what i am accustomed to , the vanity belief as well as ur actions are considered.... i dont think that his way is fair (far less for sensible and logical), and the way i am accustomed with makes more sense to me when i compare it. he has not, presented a better way for me, imo. his logic constructs of his belief system is not as logical nor sensible as what i already have,

he has not demonstrated a better way.

[d spike]

he has not demonstrated a better way.

The errant boy is fixated on the signpost, instead of on the road which the signpost identifies.

Smash, a true Christian would have no problem agreeing with all you said. St. James said as much in his surviving letter. Actually, if you remove the reference to Islam from your description of your belief, you would have described practically every major religion in the world.
We walk different paths... all leading to the same destination.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

But I don't criticise other people's belief. If you had an experience with another Christian who does, don't take it out on all!

And I respect your belief, that's what you honestly believe.
I have many Hindu/Muslim/Christian friends and we all co-exist, I don't condemned anyone for their religious practice!

Instead, I learn from them.

finally some sanity

So QG what is your take on Bluefete and Megadoc1?
1. Bluefete says Jesus wanted Kamla to win and so he willed it.
2. Megadoc1 says he is a healer, exorcist and gets divine revelation from the Holy Spirit who tells him which parts of the Bible should be taken literally and which parts should be taken figuratively.

what is your take on their statements?

Can 1. be correct?
Is 2. a normal occurrence?

Are these people delusional?

thanks, in advance, for your answers.

[megadoc1]

megga, in your opinion, which is more beneficial and selfless, to utter the statement 'jesus is god' or to help an orphan child?can,t I do both? should i be only limited to helping a child?

megga, if u could do one or the other, which would god bless more?
if there are two persons, one saying 'jesus is god' and another helping the needy of society, who would god bless more? who is more pious according to your teachings/learning?

do not cop out by saying that doin both is possible, the question is along the lines of either, between, disunited,,, because persons do only one, so which is the better to do, or who will be blessed more?

Smash, in all fairness, this isn't a just/fair question, as in order for either choice to be a definite option, each must be totally divorced from the other (in which case, the right answer is blatant - we used to call this sort of thing "beatnik" philosophy ) and this can't exist in real life. (It is interesting to note Megadoc's answer, as he glimpses that something seems wrong with his preferred choice - hence his grasping at both at the same time... the interesting bit is he doesn't even realise that his silently preferred choice is defensible due to the fact that as a pure /sterile option, it cannot exist in isolation. This just shows his inability to link his religious beliefs to reality.)
To admit that "Jesus is god" (or whatever other option one prefers) is all well and good - after all one should be able to define one's beliefs... but application of one's religion is supposed to better one's life and the life of those around you... so the real question to ask Megadoc is if he thinks that the two options CAN be separated...

^ early on in this thread I shared it with a priest at the Regional Seminary on Mt. St. Benedict. His reaction was the same to Bluefete's rantings. he said Bluefete was doing Christianity more harm than good.

like he don't understand God or what? he feel is some kinda product for a company he selling? who is man to harm the image of God?
or was it something you felt comfortable hearing ?

This guy DOES NOT READ. I explained earlier what is meant by 'Christianity', but he still happily confuses it with other concepts. How could a type of religion (a way of thinking about a deity) be the deity itself, or its image?

no! I don't, not because you don't believe me, means it is not true
i don't need your approval
and God don't need your approval for for his work to be true you are limited by your belief

Well, well, well... the more things change, the more they stay the same...
Megadoc is up to his old stunt-pulling routine again, where he makes statements, then refuses to back them up... First, I was a liar... now it's "Megadoc, healer & exorcist, step right up, he's good for what ails ya..."

Yelling "shut up" at folks who disagree with you somehow doesn't seem rather convincing...

yea nice try , one set of talk and yet not one of you will subject yourselves to prove otherwise.

[megadoc1]

he has not demonstrated a better way.

The errant boy is fixated on the signpost, instead of on the road which the signpost identifies.

Smash, a true Christian would have no problem agreeing with all you said. St. James said as much in his surviving letter. Actually, if you remove the reference to Islam from your description of your belief, you would have described practically every major religion in the world.
We walk different paths... all leading to the same destination.

this statement is only true
because hell is that destination you speak about.

[megadoc1]

But I don't criticise other people's belief. If you had an experience with another Christian who does, don't take it out on all!

And I respect your belief, that's what you honestly believe.
I have many Hindu/Muslim/Christian friends and we all co-exist, I don't condemned anyone for their religious practice!

Instead, I learn from them.

finally some sanity

So QG what is your take on Bluefete and Megadoc1?
1. Bluefete says Jesus wanted Kamla to win and so he willed it.
2. Megadoc1 says he is a healer, exorcist and gets divine revelation from the Holy Spirit who tells him which parts of the Bible should be taken literally and which parts should be taken figuratively.

what is your take on their statements?

Can 1. be correct?
Is 2. a normal occurrence?

Are these people delusional?

thanks, in advance, for your answers.

duane you need to clear up something there , I cast out demons in the name of Jesus(i am not an exorcist)if i lay hands on the sick in jesus name, they shall recover (I am not a healer)
I am none of what you describe there, the one who does the works, is Jesus

[megadoc1]

allyuh realize Megadoc1 getting vex

Wham soldier? u eh get no Jesus juice today?

From trying to save us all, now he just saying "SHUT UP!"

Thats the scorn and hypocrisy shining thru that mask of his..

round and round we go, and we will no doubt see that he's a phony... Doc, go back under yuh tent and beat yuh tambourine fuh tithes eh.

Come better than this pappyshow if yuh intent is actually to save ppl and shepherd them to the light of God

lol @ getting angry you all don't even know your purpose on here .

Blind and foolish one! There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT see...
You have surrounded yourself with many of the clues to our purpose here, but your self-induced myopia has disabled you from seeing the gift in your hands - you just concern yourself with the wrapping-paper and ribbons.

To believe in personal salvation is all well and good, but that cannot be the be-all-and-end-all of your religion... The mantra of "I am saved!" cannot be the focal point of the human relationship with the Creator - this is a very selfish viewpoint. To have a "personal relationship with God" is a good thing, but we were put here as a people, to achieve something as a people. (One reason why suicide is wrong.) Life is beautiful, but too short for an individual to achieve God's plan (if there is one) on his own. We each go through life, meeting far too many individuals, to interact fully with each... far too many problems and ills exist for any one of us to deal with - alone. We can run to a "God" for solace, but in every example of this, we are told that the answer lies within us as a people. We are "Christ" to each other - or whatever you want to call it.

We are called as a people to achieve something wonderful, over time (hence the reason for procreation) and this is what was meant for us.
The world isn't going to end in a fit of God's anger and frustration with our inability to do what's right (that would mean the Devil won and God failed, wouldn't it?) but when we succeed in doing our part in the Great Scheme of things/"God's plan".

Most christians should view 'worship' as the purpose of creation, but this statement means more than most would assume, as the concept of 'worship' differs. 'Worship' can easily be seen as meaning the joyous (and sometimes cacophonic) shouting and singing one sees being 'performed'... but this is just a very small part (and optional) part of what 'worship' is.
If you give a young lad a bicycle, you would be rather upset if he never rides it. We were placed here among the Creation, to be part of it. One can worship the Creator by enjoying his Creation! (To further illustrate the point I wish to make: If you had a pretty wife, how would you show her every night how glad you were to be her husband? )
So if you think about it, those who enjoy life to the fullest, and revel in their existence, are worshiping God. (They, in some way, have clearly understood PART of why we are here - and they will discover more as they journey through life... BUT IN THEIR OWN TIME.
You need to ask yourself (NOT other people... Megadoc1 had it wrong from the starting line) if you believe Someone is in charge of this whole affair. If your answer is 'yes', then you need to trust that he has a plan - and you do your part. (Meddling in his affairs by messing with other people's lives isn't your part. To explain: we are all called to walk a path. Each of us has our own path. To stop walking in order to start directing traffic, or to go and drag people off their path to walk alongside you, may not be the best thing for that person.)

Now the worship of the Creator by man is of three basic types: individual, communal and universal. Individual worship is self-explanatory, as is communal. Universal worship (can't remember the proper scholastic term, but bear with me and my failing mind) concerns the Creator's plan for us, and is the main reason for our creation. We were brought into being - whether created in an instant, or brought into creation over a period of time (evolved?), is neither here nor there - as a race that propagates itself, and hands down knowledge across generations. This has to be for a reason. We are meant to achieve something... something good and wonderful... so wonderful, that everyone will be aware of it and its meaning... and the role the Creator played in all time. This is the plan. Its achievement will be the glory of our race, and to the greater glory of him who made us, and gave us the gifts to achieve. All will realise... "Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess..." (Unfortunately, many people see the end of our time here as cataclysmic - thanks to the apocalyptic idiom used by the Jews - and a sort of 'victory dance' for "us" to do over the defeated "them".)

You were asked to do this by witnessing. It is unfortunate that folks think witnessing means talking and preaching - far from it. Witnessing means to live your life in such a way, that what you believe is seen in what you do. Gandhi said, "I like your Christ, but I do not like your christians." This was exactly what he was referring to. It is because of this hypocritical attitude that I use a common "c" when I refer to these "christians". (Remember this: 'What you are doing is speaking so loudly that I cannot hear what you say.')

So, we are called to love, to find the Source of love, to live in it, revel in it, and to share it with others. Remember we were told that the greatest commandment was to love one another...

I'm not saying to go through life wearing rose-coloured spectacles, far from it. We came from the dirt, we will return to it someday, and in between, we get dirty. Our ability to discern right/wrong action is a gift we are to use - for our own guidance. Reserve your ability to judge for yourself and your own actions - that is what it's for. Directing it outward warps it's ability to do good and to better oneself. Let it suffice to say that your knowledge of right and wrong is for you to decide what is truth for you, what is acceptable for you... not to tell others what to do or believe. They must be allowed to exercise that same gift in their lives - in order for the choice they make to be truly theirs.

nice nice it sounds good but Jesus sounded better
in fact he makes your way sounds like crap

[zcarz]

Why did Manning win in the first place, God didn't will that to happen conveniently?

[d spike]

nice nice it sounds good but Jesus sounded better
in fact he makes your way sounds like crap

Love your neighbour... love one another...
Do not judge others... deal with the beam/plank in your eye before you look at the mote in another's...
peace... love... brotherhood...
This is Jesus' way! Why don't you turn off all that noise in your head created by your fears, insecurity and ego, then sit (with a dictionary) and really read what the tax collector, the secretary, the doctor and the lad had to say about Him, and their recollection of His words.

[sMASH]

de man say jesus soundin better,,,, not to me.
u need to believe in jesus as the son of god, or god himself, to go to heaven, and failure to do so will bar u from eternal salvation. this automatically condemns those who did not ever hear about jesus' divinity, and those who herd about it and did not follow it. not very universal in his forgiveness.
if u believe in jesus as the son of god or god, then u did sin before and did sin after,,, (think kkk and slave owners, christian rapists, priests) there is no retribution for the ills u committed onto society; u get a pass straight to heaven just like the bible toting granny, no need to actually follow the guidelines of living a good life, u dont need to as forgiveness as it is already done when u accept that he is god and savior. u get no extra points for living a good life, as u dont have to get extra points.
its central article of faith does not inherently does not make mandatory to be a better person, as a matter of fact, to be a better person, u need the holy spirit to show u to do better, to possess u.

the way i believe in, tells u u do not have to believe in this way to achieve heaven, u dont need to believe in god as it describes god to get into heaven. there is a judgment day, and the way i subscribe to, has it living up to its name. according to my napkin, every one going to be judged by what they did, and intended to do, and would be punished according to their bad, and rewarded for their good. judgment is reserved solely for him, not for me.

i have not been presented with a napkin system which is more forgiving and fair than mine

[d spike]

and yet not one of you will subject yourselves to prove otherwise.

Everyday, brotherman... everyday. Just not within sight of your bubble.

[d spike]

de man say jesus soundin better,,,, not to me.
u need to believe in jesus as the son of god, or god himself, to go to heaven, and failure to do so will bar u from eternal salvation. this automatically condemns those who did not ever hear about jesus' divinity, and those who herd about it and did not follow it. not very universal in his forgiveness.
if u believe in jesus as the son of god or god, then u did sin before and did sin after,,, (think kkk and slave owners, christian rapists, priests) there is no retribution for the ills u committed onto society; u get a pass straight to heaven just like the bible toting granny, no need to actually follow the guidelines of living a good life, u dont need to as forgiveness as it is already done when u accept that he is god and savior. u get no extra points for living a good life, as u dont have to get extra points.
its central article of faith does not inherently does not make mandatory to be a better person, as a matter of fact, to be a better person, u need the holy spirit to show u to do better, to possess u.

the way i believe in, tells u u do not have to believe in this way to achieve heaven, u dont need to believe in god as it describes god to get into heaven. there is a judgment day, and the way i subscribe to, has it living up to its name. according to my napkin, every one going to be judged by what they did, and intended to do, and would be punished according to their bad, and rewarded for their good. judgment is reserved solely for him, not for me.

i have not been presented with a napkin system which is more forgiving and fair than mine

Bossman, you just keep doing what you're doing. First of all, that description of "christianity" a la Megadoc that you just posted AIN'T Christianity, at least, not what was handed down through the ages. Christianity teaches the same tenets you just outlined above. Jesus isn't some "get-out-of-jail card" that christians will whip out of their pockets when they stand before Him who have us here in the first place.

Jesus specifically said that He has sheep not of this flock (his followers) that he tends...
Yes, Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, no one comes to the Father except through me", but if you ponder these words, it doesn't take a St. Jerome to see what he was talking about. His way is the way of love (what he spent his life preaching about and demonstrating), isn't that the Truth? Isn't that Life? Whether you believe that it was he who reforged Man's link to God OR NOT, the link is there - neither Megadoc nor an imam will deny this... so why argue? Because it's important to you whose signature is on the beautiful painting you admire? Will a certain signature make you change your mind about the beauty of the painting?

The problem with fundamentalism is that it can only accept absolutes - and Christianity supposedly teaches that God accepts the human condition, whatever efforts on our part are made, are sanctified and made perfect by him.
So a fundamentalist christian is a contradiction!

Smash, Megadoc's problem is that he doesn't understand what is written on his napkin, that's all there is to it. Is that surprising? He can't understand the simple posts you guys write in his own language... you expect him to master a document thousands of pages long, an interpretation of a book combined of many books, written by many different people from many different walks of life, spanning centuries, from differing cultures, different languages each with its own idioms, translated through different languages - sometimes by amateur translators who didn't fully understand the lingo - full of conflicting ideals and concepts? Please...

[megadoc1]

nice nice it sounds good but Jesus sounded better
in fact he makes your way sounds like crap

Love your neighbour... love one another...
Do not judge others... deal with the beam/plank in your eye before you look at the mote in another's...
peace... love... brotherhood...
This is Jesus' way! Why don't you turn off all that noise in your head created by your fears, insecurity and ego, then sit (with a dictionary) and really read what the tax collector, the secretary, the doctor and the lad had to say about Him, and their recollection of His words.

preach it but preach all and not some ,now tell us ,who did jesus say, shall see/enter the kingdom of heaven?

[shady23]

*in before 100 pages*

[toyo682]

Biblical salvation: Summary
l. Salvation is historical. The OT view of salvation as effected through historic, divine intervention is fully honoured in the NT. As against Gnosticism, man is not saved by wisdom; as against Judaism, man is not saved by moral and religious merit; as against the Hellenistic mystery cults, man is not saved by a technique of religious practice; as against Rome, salvation is not to be equated with political order or liberty. Man is saved by God’s action in history in the person of Jesus Christ (Rom. 4:25; 5:10; 2 Cor. 4:10f.; Phil. 2:6f.; 1 Tim. 1:15; 1 Jn. 4:9-10, 14). While the birth, life and ministry of Jesus are not unimportant, the stress falls upon his death and resurrection (1 Cor. 15:5f.); we are saved by the blood of his cross (Acts 20:28; Rom. 3:25; 5:9; Eph. 1:7; Col. 1:20; Heb. 9:12; 12:24; 13:12; 1 Jn. 1:7; Rev. 1:5; 5:9). As this message is proclaimed and men hear and come to respond in faith God’s salvation is brought to them (Rom. 10:8, 14f.; 1 Cor. 1:18-25; 15:1 I; 1 Thes. 1:4f.).
2. Salvation is moral and spiritual. Salvation relates to a deliverance from sin and its consequences and hence from guilt (Rom. 5:1; Heb. 10:22, from the law and its curse (Gal. 3:13; Col. 2:14) from death (1 Pet. 1:3-5; 1 Cor. 15:51-56), from judgment (Rom. 5:9; Heb. 9:28, also from fear (Heb. 2:15; 2 Tim. 1:7, 9f.) and bondage (Tit. 2:11-3:6; Gal 5:1f). It is important to indicate the negative implications of this, i.e. what Christian salvation does not include. Salvation does not imply material prosperity or worldly success (Acts 3:6; 2 Cor. 6:10), nor does it promise physical health and well-being. One must be careful not to overstate this particular negative, as clearly remarkable healings did and do take place and ‘healing’ is a gift of the Spirit to the church (Acts 3:9; 9:34; 20:9f.; 1 Cor. 12:28). But healing is not invariable, and hence is in no sense a ‘right’ to the saved man (1 Tim. 5:23; 2 Tim. 4:20; Phil. 2:25f.; 2 Cor. 12:7-9). Further, salvation does not include deliverance from physical hardship and danger (1 Cor. 4:9-13; 2 Cor. 11:23-28), nor even, perhaps, seemingly tragic events (Mt. 5:45?). It does not mean being absolved from social injustice and ill-treatment (1 Cor. 7:20-24; 1 Pet. 2:18-25).
3. Salvation is eschatological. There is a danger of stating the meaning of salvation too negatively, Here we recall the recognition above of the paucity of references to salvation from the lips of Jesus. His central category was the kingdom of God, the manifestation of God’s sovereign rule. In Rev. 12:20 however salvation and the kingdom are virtually equated. For the author of the Apocalypse as for Jesus salvation is equivalent to life under the reign of God, or, as in the witness of the Fourth Gospel, eternal life. Salvation therefore gathers up all the contents or the gospel. It includes deliverance from sin and all its consequences, and positively, the bestowal of all spiritual blessings in Christ (Eph. 1:3), the gift of the Holy Spirit and the life of blessedness in the future age. This future perspective is crucial (Rom. 8:24;1:4; 9:28; 1 Pet. 1:5, 9). All that is known of salvation now is but a preliminary and foretaste of the fullness of salvation which awaits the fullness of the kingdom at the parousia of the Lord.
Wood, D. R. W., & Marshall, I. H. (1996). New Bible dictionary (3rd ed.) (1050). Leicester, England; Downers Grove, Ill.: InterVarsity Press.

Check out the scripture references!

[d spike]

preach it but preach all and not some ,now tell us ,who did jesus say, shall see/enter the kingdom of heaven?

“Come, you that are blessed by my Father! Come and possess the kingdom which has been prepared for you ever since the creation of the world. I was hungry and you fed me, thirsty and you gave me a drink; I was a stranger and you received me in your homes, naked and you clothed me; I was sick and you took care of me, in prison and you visited me.”
The righteous will then answer him, “When, Lord, did we ever see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and gave you a drink? When did we ever see you a stranger and welcome you in our homes, or naked and clothe you? When did we ever see you sick or in prison and visit you?”
The reply: “I tell you, whenever you did this for one of the least important of these brothers of mine, you did it for me!”

[Damien]

*in before 100 pages*

x2 online bible

[toyo682]

1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."

3In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.[a]"

4"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"

5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

9"How can this be?" Nicodemus asked.

10"You are Israel's teacher," said Jesus, "and do you not understand these things? 11I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.[d] 14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.[e]

16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.[g] 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."[h]

How does this passage fit into your understanding D spike? just interested to hear.

[megadoc1]

But I don't criticise other people's belief. If you had an experience with another Christian who does, don't take it out on all!

And I respect your belief, that's what you honestly believe.
I have many Hindu/Muslim/Christian friends and we all co-exist, I don't condemned anyone for their religious practice!

Instead, I learn from them.

finally some sanity

So QG what is your take on Bluefete and Megadoc1?
1. Bluefete says Jesus wanted Kamla to win and so he willed it.
2. Megadoc1 says he is a healer, exorcist and gets divine revelation from the Holy Spirit who tells him which parts of the Bible should be taken literally and which parts should be taken figuratively.

what is your take on their statements?

Can 1. be correct?
Is 2. a normal occurrence?

Are these people delusional?

thanks, in advance, for your answers.

duane you need to clear up something there , I cast out demons in the name of Jesus(i am not an exorcist)if i lay hands on the sick in jesus name, they shall recover (I am not a healer)
I am none of what you describe there, the one who does the works, is Jesus

Now you know I'd take you to task on the above lol.
# Exorcism (from Late Latin exorcismus, from Greek exorkizein - to bind by oath) is the practice of evicting demons or other spiritual entities from a person or place which they are believed to have possessed by causing the entity to swear an oath. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exorcising

# exorcise - expel through adjuration or prayers; "exorcise evil spirits"
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

# exorcise - To drive out an evil spirit from a person, place or thing, especially by an incantation or prayer; To rid a person, place or thing of an evil spirit
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/exorcise

therefore u are an exorcist by definition.

heal·er (hlr)
n.
One that heals or attempts to heal, especially a faith healer.

Main Entry: heal·er
Pronunciation: \ˈhē-lər\
Function: noun
Date: 12th century
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/healer

1 : one that heals
2 : a Christian Science practitioner
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/healer

healer definition

healer (hēl′ər)

noun
a person or thing that heals; specif., one who tries to heal through prayer or faith
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/healer

Dictionary: heal·er (hē'lər) pronunciation
n.
One that heals or attempts to heal, especially a faith healer.
http://www.answers.com/topic/healer

You get where I'm going with this....

Oh and in all fairness Duane I think when he says it was God's will I think he believes it was his divine providence so to speak. I was thinking it was just the way we voted but pfft, I'm no expert.

We hit 100 pages yet?

i hear you lola but in my case nothing is done by me,if i lay my hand on someone
i only bring the demon/infirmity under subjection before God, then command them to leave
in jesus name and he does the works by driving them out.
now would it be fair for someone to say then, it is the megadoc that heal them?
no! .....all i did was exercise authority given to me but it is my lord and savior Jesus christ
that works.

lets say you are a queen (you know you are) and i am a servant with authority in your kingdom
and I bring before you an offender of your laws and put him under subjection before you
and he is fully aware of your judgments
if I commands certain things from him.(in accordance to your "word")
why should he comply?
or what would you do if he does not comply?

[megadoc1]

preach it but preach all and not some ,now tell us ,who did jesus say, shall see/enter the kingdom of heaven?

“Come, you that are blessed by my Father! Come and possess the kingdom which has been prepared for you ever since the creation of the world. I was hungry and you fed me, thirsty and you gave me a drink; I was a stranger and you received me in your homes, naked and you clothed me; I was sick and you took care of me, in prison and you visited me.”
The righteous will then answer him, “When, Lord, did we ever see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and gave you a drink? When did we ever see you a stranger and welcome you in our homes, or naked and clothe you? When did we ever see you sick or in prison and visit you?”
The reply: “I tell you, whenever you did this for one of the least important of these brothers of mine, you did it for me!”

come on man ! ah big wise man like you doing this????
jesus specify what it takes for a man to see the kingdom of heaven
why are you taking things out of context ?
those that you posted are for his "followers" that were fooling themselves
go back and see who is blessed by the father

[d spike]

come on man ! ah big wise man like you doing this????
jesus specify what it takes for a man to see the kingdom of heaven
why are you taking things out of context ?
those that you posted are for his "followers" that were fooling themselves

And exactly where is it that he said that?

[megadoc1]

come on man ! ah big wise man like you doing this????
jesus specify what it takes for a man to see the kingdom of heaven
why are you taking things out of context ?
those that you posted are for his "followers" that were fooling themselves

And exactly where is it that he said that?

yes mr smart man

“I tell you, whenever you did this for one of the least important of these brothers of mine, you did it for me!”

who jesus calling his brothers?

Matthew 12:48-50
48 He replied to him, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?" 49Pointing to his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers. 50For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

[d spike]

How does this passage fit into your understanding D spike?
Quite easily, old boy. Why do you ask?
just interested to hear.
Wait a minute. You very well know the passage I quoted. Doesn't it "fit into your understanding"? Soooooo... what's there to be interested in? Or does Megadoc's system of imagining divine voices to guide him rather than reading what is written work for folks other than him?

[d spike]

come on man ! ah big wise man like you doing this????
jesus specify what it takes for a man to see the kingdom of heaven
why are you taking things out of context ?
those that you posted are for his "followers" that were fooling themselves

And exactly where is it that he said that?

yes mr smart man

“I tell you, whenever you did this for one of the least important of these brothers of mine, you did it for me!”

who jesus calling his brothers?

Matthew 12:48-50
48 He replied to him, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?" 49Pointing to his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers. 50For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

So, whatever happened to "all men are brothers", "brotherhood of men"...eh?
And far more importantly, how does that change what I said?
Your "logic" has so many holes in it, you could use it to strain rice through.
Look at this statement you quoted:
"whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."
How does this equate to the "brothers" who didn't help their "brother" in his hour of need?

Then he will say to those on his left, "Away from me, you that are under God’s curse! Away to the eternal fire which has been prepared for the Devil and his angels! I was hungry but you would not feed me, thirsty but you would not give me a drink; I was a stranger but you would not welcome me in your homes, naked but you would not clothe me; I was sick and in prison but you would not take care of me.”
Then they will answer him, “When, Lord, did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and we would not help you?”

So you are saying that these "brothers" who did the will of the Father in heaven (and can thus be considered "brothers") did not aid others in need?
What is the greatest commandment of God?

You need help... learning how to understand what you read being foremost...