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adnj wrote:
In audio intercepts from the front lines in Ukraine, Russian soldiers speak in shorthand of 200s to mean dead, 300s to mean wounded. The urge to flee has become common enough that they also talk of 500s — people who refuse to fight.
As the war grinds into its second winter, a growing number of Russian soldiers want out, as suggested in secret recordings obtained by The Associated Press of Russian soldiers calling home from the battlefields of the Kharkiv, Luhansk and Donetsk regions in Ukraine.
The calls offer a rare glimpse of the war as it looked through Russian eyes — a point of view that seldom makes its way into Western media, largely because Russia has made it a crime to speak honestly about the conflict in Ukraine. They also show clearly how the war has progressed, from the professional soldiers who initially powered Vladimir Putin’s full-scale invasion to men from all walks of life compelled to serve in grueling conditions.
“There’s no f------ ‘dying the death of the brave’ here,” one soldier told his brother from the front in Ukraine’s Kharkiv region. “You just die like a f------ earthworm.”
(AP Illustration/Peter Hamlin)
The prospect of another wave of mobilization lingers, even as Moscow has been trying to lure people into signing contracts with the military. Russia’s annual autumn conscription draft kicked off in October, pulling in some 130,000 fresh young men. Though Moscow says conscripts won’t be sent to Ukraine, after a year of service they automatically become reservists — prime candidates for mobilization.
The AP verified the identities of people in the calls by speaking with relatives and soldiers — some of whom are still at war in Ukraine — and researching open-source material linked to the phone numbers used by the soldiers.
The conversations, picked up in January 2023 — some from near the longest and deadliest fight in Bakhmut — have been edited for length and clarity. Names have been omitted to protect the soldiers and their relatives.
The voices in these calls are of men who didn’t or couldn’t flee mobilization. Some had no money, no education and no options. Others believed in patriotic duty. One worked in a meat processing plant, cutting bone. Another worked at a law firm. A third, who worked as a roofer and later at a supermarket company, had a string of debts and had defaulted on his utilities payments, records show.
It is hard to say how representative these calls are of sentiment in Russia’s armed forces, but their desperation is matched by a spike in legal cases against soldiers in Russia who refuse to fight.
What’s happening in Ukraine is “simply genocide,” the soldier in Kharkiv told his brother. “If this s--- doesn’t stop, then soon we’ll be leading the Ukrainians to the Kremlin ourselves,” he said.
“This is just a huge testing ground, where the whole world is testing their weapons, f--- it, and sizing up their d----,” he went on. “That’s all.”
But there are other voices, too, of men who remain committed to the fight.
“As long as we are needed here, we will carry out our task,” a soldier named Artyom told AP from eastern Ukraine at the end of May, where he’d been stationed for eight months without break. “Just stop asking me these stupid questions.”
The Kremlin and Russian Ministry of Defense did not respond to requests for comment. ...
https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-war- ... b821cd29ec
I do not support that, hence why elenski should have signed terms with russia in April 2022.Dizzy28 wrote:Graves a few kms outside Mariupol. If smash could support this a few thousand dead Palestinians should be no issue.
Like Israel then?sMASH wrote:I do not support that, hence why elenski should have signed terms with russia in April 2022.Dizzy28 wrote:Graves a few kms outside Mariupol. If smash could support this a few thousand dead Palestinians should be no issue.
When faced with an existential threat, u do what u must to survive
sMASH wrote:Isreal is a failed experiment. Like an organ transplant thats not being accepted by the body
Russia is starting to make its superiority in electronic warfare count
Most of the attention to what Ukraine needs in its protracted struggle to free its territory from the invading Russian forces has focused on hardware: tanks, fighter jets, missiles, air-defence batteries, artillery and vast quantities of munitions. But a less discussed weakness lies in electronic warfare (ew); something that Ukraine’s Western supporters have so far shown little interest in tackling.
Russia, says Seth Jones of the Centre for Strategic and International Studies, a think-tank in Washington, has for many years placed a “huge focus” on using its military-industrial complex to produce and develop an impressive range of ew capabilities to counter nato’s highly networked systems. But Ukraine, according to its commander-in-chief, General Valery Zaluzhny, found itself at the beginning of the war with mainly Soviet-era ew systems. Initially the discrepancy had only limited impact, but as relatively static lines of contact have emerged Russia has been able to position its formidable ew assets where they can have the greatest effect
After the war?adnj wrote:It looks as if the deal is done.
Ukraine will become a Nato member subject to reforms after the war, says secretary general
Ukraine will become a member of Nato subject to reforms after the war, the military alliance’s secretary general, Jens Stoltenberg, has said.
Allies agree that Ukraine will become a member of Nato. At [the Nato-Ukraine] meeting, we will agree recommendations for Ukrainians … reforms, as we continue to support Kiev on this path to Nato membership.
However, all allies still agree that full membership remains impossible in the midst of war, even while ways to move Ukraine and Nato closer continue, he added.
This month Germany and the Netherlands pledged €10bn for Ukraine, he added. Romania added a F16 training centre for Ukrainian pilots. Allies including the US and Finland are sending more air defences and ammunition to protect Ukrainian cities from Russian attacks.
Stoltenberg also said that Sweden’s pending Nato membership “will make us all safer” and he called on Turkey and Hungary to complete its ratifications.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/ ... ays-uk-mod
sMASH wrote:After the war?adnj wrote:It looks as if the deal is done.
Ukraine will become a Nato member subject to reforms after the war, says secretary general
Ukraine will become a member of Nato subject to reforms after the war, the military alliance’s secretary general, Jens Stoltenberg, has said.
Allies agree that Ukraine will become a member of Nato. At [the Nato-Ukraine] meeting, we will agree recommendations for Ukrainians … reforms, as we continue to support Kiev on this path to Nato membership.
However, all allies still agree that full membership remains impossible in the midst of war, even while ways to move Ukraine and Nato closer continue, he added.
This month Germany and the Netherlands pledged €10bn for Ukraine, he added. Romania added a F16 training centre for Ukrainian pilots. Allies including the US and Finland are sending more air defences and ammunition to protect Ukrainian cities from Russian attacks.
Stoltenberg also said that Sweden’s pending Nato membership “will make us all safer” and he called on Turkey and Hungary to complete its ratifications.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/ ... ays-uk-mod
When on the time line are they expected to regain the donbas and crimea?
I was under the impression that was the goal of Ukraine and the supplies from nato...
When are they projected to reclaim donbas and crimea?
Dohplaydat wrote:sMASH wrote:After the war?adnj wrote:It looks as if the deal is done.
Ukraine will become a Nato member subject to reforms after the war, says secretary general
Ukraine will become a member of Nato subject to reforms after the war, the military alliance’s secretary general, Jens Stoltenberg, has said.
Allies agree that Ukraine will become a member of Nato. At [the Nato-Ukraine] meeting, we will agree recommendations for Ukrainians … reforms, as we continue to support Kiev on this path to Nato membership.
However, all allies still agree that full membership remains impossible in the midst of war, even while ways to move Ukraine and Nato closer continue, he added.
This month Germany and the Netherlands pledged €10bn for Ukraine, he added. Romania added a F16 training centre for Ukrainian pilots. Allies including the US and Finland are sending more air defences and ammunition to protect Ukrainian cities from Russian attacks.
Stoltenberg also said that Sweden’s pending Nato membership “will make us all safer” and he called on Turkey and Hungary to complete its ratifications.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/ ... ays-uk-mod
When on the time line are they expected to regain the donbas and crimea?
I was under the impression that was the goal of Ukraine and the supplies from nato...
When are they projected to reclaim donbas and crimea?
Probably after Russia negotiates to absorb eastern Ukraine. Time we realise that while Ukraine frustrated the heck out of Russia, the ruskies will likely will this war.
Screenshot_20231128_210854_Economist.jpg
adnj wrote:Low birth rate, low immigration rates and taking care of eight kids during the long winter months is no fun either.
However, the battlefield shapes politics. Momentum affects morale. If Ukraine retreats, dissent in Kyiv will grow louder. So will voices in the West saying that sending Ukraine money and weapons is a waste. In 2024 at least, Russia will be in a stronger position to fight, because it will have more drones and artillery shells, because its army has developed successful electronic-warfare tactics against some Ukrainian weapons and because Mr Putin will tolerate horrific casualties among his own men.
Increasing foreign support partly explains Russia’s edge on the battlefield. Mr Putin has obtained drones from Iran and shells from North Korea. He has worked to convince much of the global south that it has no great stake in what happens to Ukraine. Turkey and Kazakhstan have become channels for goods that feed the Russian war machine. A Western scheme to limit Russian oil revenues by capping the price for its crude at $60 a barrel has failed because a parallel trading structure has emerged beyond the reach of the West. The price of Urals crude from Russia is $64, up nearly 10% since the start of 2023.
"if"Dizzy28 wrote:Dohplaydat wrote:sMASH wrote:After the war?adnj wrote:It looks as if the deal is done.
Ukraine will become a Nato member subject to reforms after the war, says secretary general
Ukraine will become a member of Nato subject to reforms after the war, the military alliance’s secretary general, Jens Stoltenberg, has said.
Allies agree that Ukraine will become a member of Nato. At [the Nato-Ukraine] meeting, we will agree recommendations for Ukrainians … reforms, as we continue to support Kiev on this path to Nato membership.
However, all allies still agree that full membership remains impossible in the midst of war, even while ways to move Ukraine and Nato closer continue, he added.
This month Germany and the Netherlands pledged €10bn for Ukraine, he added. Romania added a F16 training centre for Ukrainian pilots. Allies including the US and Finland are sending more air defences and ammunition to protect Ukrainian cities from Russian attacks.
Stoltenberg also said that Sweden’s pending Nato membership “will make us all safer” and he called on Turkey and Hungary to complete its ratifications.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/ ... ays-uk-mod
When on the time line are they expected to regain the donbas and crimea?
I was under the impression that was the goal of Ukraine and the supplies from nato...
When are they projected to reclaim donbas and crimea?
Probably after Russia negotiates to absorb eastern Ukraine. Time we realise that while Ukraine frustrated the heck out of Russia, the ruskies will likely will this war.
Screenshot_20231128_210854_Economist.jpg
If your goal was to parade through Kyiv within 3 days but after two years and going you still haven't occupied the initial two oblasts you wanted in entirety (Donetsk and Luhansk), lost tens of thousands of pieces of equipment, depleted your artillery stocks to the point of buying North Korean materiel, lost hundreds of thousands of men, become a diplomatic Pariah to the West, have been suspended and subsequently kicked out of UEFA and FIFA competitions and your economy is in the shitter is that really winning?
What a coincidence , the Israelis saying the same thing about GazasMASH wrote:Poland is making a case that the western border of Ukraine is s terror threat and in order to "secure" it they may have to "occupy" it...
Elenski's days are numbered. They are sending pregnant women and old men to fight... Just stop wasting lives already...
America will send aircraft carriers, battle ships, submarines, etc to help Ukraine.. We know this already.Dizzy28 wrote:What a coincidence , the Israelis saying the same thing about GazasMASH wrote:Poland is making a case that the western border of Ukraine is s terror threat and in order to "secure" it they may have to "occupy" it...
Elenski's days are numbered. They are sending pregnant women and old men to fight... Just stop wasting lives already...
adnj wrote:The US wants Ukraine to keep Russia busy because Putin is weak and ineffective but is afraid to use nuclear weapons.
------‐----
As Kyiv works to maintain its Western coalition, stress fractures are forming. In Europe, a wave of right-wing populism threatens to derail the continent's political establishment, while in the U.S. President Joe Biden is heading into a fierce re-election contest with a Republican Party cowed by former President Donald Trump and shifting into open Ukraine-skepticism.
A common refrain since February 2022 is that the U.S. is giving Ukraine enough military aid to survive, but not enough to win. In this telling, Washington, D.C. fears that a strategic Kremlin defeat in Ukraine could prompt chaos within Russian borders, perhaps the unseating of President Vladimir Putin, and a vicious regional struggle to fill a power vacuum littered with weapons of mass destruction. With the China challenge looming, Eurasian anarchy would pose many new problems for the White House.
https://www.newsweek.com/us-want-ukrain ... ks-1846772
This sounds gayadnj wrote:The US wants Ukraine to keep Russia busy because Putin is weak and ineffective but is afraid to use nuclear weapons.
------‐----
As Kyiv works to maintain its Western coalition, stress fractures are forming. In Europe, a wave of right-wing populism threatens to derail the continent's political establishment, while in the U.S. President Joe Biden is heading into a fierce re-election contest with a Republican Party cowed by former President Donald Trump and shifting into open Ukraine-skepticism.
A common refrain since February 2022 is that the U.S. is giving Ukraine enough military aid to survive, but not enough to win. In this telling, Washington, D.C. fears that a strategic Kremlin defeat in Ukraine could prompt chaos within Russian borders, perhaps the unseating of President Vladimir Putin, and a vicious regional struggle to fill a power vacuum littered with weapons of mass destruction. With the China challenge looming, Eurasian anarchy would pose many new problems for the White House.
https://www.newsweek.com/us-want-ukrain ... ks-1846772
sMASH wrote:This sounds gayadnj wrote:The US wants Ukraine to keep Russia busy because Putin is weak and ineffective but is afraid to use nuclear weapons.
------‐----
As Kyiv works to maintain its Western coalition, stress fractures are forming. In Europe, a wave of right-wing populism threatens to derail the continent's political establishment, while in the U.S. President Joe Biden is heading into a fierce re-election contest with a Republican Party cowed by former President Donald Trump and shifting into open Ukraine-skepticism.
A common refrain since February 2022 is that the U.S. is giving Ukraine enough military aid to survive, but not enough to win. In this telling, Washington, D.C. fears that a strategic Kremlin defeat in Ukraine could prompt chaos within Russian borders, perhaps the unseating of President Vladimir Putin, and a vicious regional struggle to fill a power vacuum littered with weapons of mass destruction. With the China challenge looming, Eurasian anarchy would pose many new problems for the White House.
https://www.newsweek.com/us-want-ukrain ... ks-1846772
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