Petrotrin refinery shut down

[wing]

https://trinidadexpress.com/newsextra/r ... ium=social

[gastly369]

https://guardian.co.tt/news/khan-tt-energy-sector-alive-and-kicking-6.2.1157716.58dc274d10


If de gov say so is so....

[Gladiator]

https://trinidadexpress.com/newsextra/refinery-goes-to-patriotic-energies-govt-to-sign-deal-with-owtu/article_1c7e42e6-c751-11ea-b983-636d98ea265a.html#utm_campaign=blox&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social

This is the biggest mess any Govt in Trinidad history has ever made to date...

[The_Honourable]

Ramnarine: Patriotic refinery deal too convenient



GOVERNMENT’s decision to close the Petrotrin Refinery deal with Patriotic Energies and Technologies Company Ltd has been met with a mixture of favour and scepticism, coming on the eve of a general election.

Former Energy Minister Kevin Ramnarine said, “It is clear to me that the rush to finalise this arrangement is, of course, related to the pending election.

“It does not take a genius to figure that out. I mean the refinery was closed down on the November 30, 2018. They have had 19 months to do this and they are now bringing it on the eve of the general election. To me I find that too be too convenient."

He said the country should pay close attention to the impending deal that would certainly become an election issue if signed.

On Wednesday at the launch of the Petrotrin Land Distribution Programme for workers who were terminated, the Prime Minister announced his readiness to sign off on the agreement with the Oilfield Workers Trade Union (OWTU).

Patriotic which won the bid from among 77 expressions of interest, is a fully-owned subsidiary of the OWTU.

Sources told Newsday that representatives from the government, the OWTU and Trinidad Petroleum Holdings Ltd (TPHL) were locked in meetings all day Thursday trying hammer out the arrangements.

Ramnarine said once the transaction is finalised there will be no need for approval by the Parliament. He said as far as he is aware all of the assets of Petrotrin were vested in TPHL by and Act of Parliament in 2018 before the closure of the oil company in November that year.

However, Ramnarine said, although there is no need for Parliamentary approval for the disposal or lease of the assets, he still believed something of this magnitude should be the subject of a Parliamentary debate.

“At the end of the day you must remember that this country spent about US$1.5 billion to upgrade that refinery so what ever people may think about that refinery, the fact of the matter is that taxpayers spent close to TT$10 billion to upgrade that refinery and significant parts of the refinery are new.

“So it is therefore reasonable to expect the people of TT should have full disclosure about this arrangement between government and Patriotic.”

Ramnarine said he was concerned that the transaction was happening without procurement regulations in place.

“The procurement regulations have not yet come into effect. As a result, the procurement regulators do not have all the instruments that the regulator needs to be effective."

Commenting on Rowley’s announcement, economist Dr Roger Hosein said if Patriotic could raise the relevant resources to get the process started, “by all means I am in support.

“I am in support because it will benefit the fence-line communities, it will benefit the wider national TT economy. So once TT benefits, I think that is what we all want.”

However, he said he hoped the enthusiasm to sign off and get the economy rolling, was not a façade.

“What I hope is not happening, is a smoke screen. I hope this is not just some form of politicking to win the election or make strides to win the election that there is the suggestion that progress is being made.”

He said, “It is in the interest of the government of TT after August 10 that we try to restart the refinery. It would create a wave of jobs and this wave of jobs will benefit everyone."

Hosein said a sound strategic model was needed to ensure that the restart of the refinery took place in a way that did not strain the taxpayers more than it did before it was closed down.

Weighing in on the details of the deal, Hosein said, contrary to what some were saying, there is a lot of information available from the budget speech, the mid-term review and from some of the pronouncements being made at the moment.

“But certainly it must not be a situation where there is a greater or renewed dependence on taxpayers to support the refinery as it moves forward. If it is a private sector transaction, let it be a private sector transaction.”

Source: https://newsday.co.tt/2020/07/16/ramnar ... onvenient/

[De Dragon]

^^^
Accurate pic, Sambo dancing for Massa, but a black Massa

[sMASH]

Blank massa

[agent007]

I should probably send a resume to Lafast or Sterling and ask for a 1year contact to start with because just now everybody in that union would be driving X5, X6 and GLEs for starters. The PM basically gave these guys a cash cow to secure their generations that would make a former Petrotrin chairman's earnings look like chump change.

[De Dragon]

I should probably send a resume to Lafast or Sterling and ask for a 1year contact to start with because just now everybody in that union would be driving X5, X6 and GLEs for starters. The PM basically gave these guys a cash cow to secure their generations that would make a former Petrotrin chairman's earnings look like chump change.

PNM definition of " payment upfront", milk it for 3 years, then start to pay or give it back

[agent007]

Yup and the sad thing is when they go bust because we know they cant manage it, is we the taxpayers yet again will have to step in.

For example:
The total debt position as of 2018 of the following entities:
Petrotrin, NGC, WASA, T&TEC, TTMF, UDECOTT, NIPDEC and NIDCO for starters would tally up to over $53B ttd right?

Right now our HSF is around what, $40B ttd?

Also, this year we recording yet another budget deficit. Who would be financing all these minuses? China?

And PNM has 48 years of running this country since 1956. How dare we keep this dirty party in power to continue to put a heavy weight of debt on our children's back?

And the sad thing is, COVID19 set us back even further. The sh!t ain't hit the fan yet fellow tuners. Are you all prepared for another 5 years of satanic dictatorial rule?

[wing]

Yup and the sad thing is when they go bust because we know they cant manage it, is we the taxpayers yet again will have to step in.

For example:
The total debt position as of 2018 of the following entities:
Petrotrin, NGC, WASA, T&TEC, TTMF, UDECOTT, NIPDEC and NIDCO for starters would tally up to over $53B ttd right?

Right now our HSF is around what, $40B ttd?

Also, this year we recording yet another budget deficit. Who would be financing all these minuses? China?

And PNM has 48 years of running this country since 1956. How dare we keep this dirty party in power to continue to put a heavy weight of debt on our children's back?

And the sad thing is, COVID19 set us back even further. The sh!t ain't hit the fan yet fellow tuners. Are you all prepared for another 5 years of satanic dictatorial rule?

The government is selling the Refinery to a private company owned by the union. What do the taxpayers have to do with anything? If they go bust, won't the investors lose their money? I can't see the connection between a private company and the ordinary taxpayers. If the venture is a success, won't the government benefit from taxes and royalties?

[rspann]

Just in case yuh went to yuh fridge and didn't hear what ah say , I'll say it again . This govt is NOT closing down Petrotrin.

[agent007]

Wing, I was thinking something similar to clico which had nothing to do with the state yet said state found $20B to bail them out.

Spann, if the government did not close down petrotrin then why the vsep payments? What was it all the time? A golden handshake due to restructuring? So what, they birth 3 new companies plus colluding with the union under the guise of an intense selection process to hand them the refinery via a 4th company?

[Gladiator]

You forgetting the fact that the govt is giving a multi billion dollar asset to the "private company" to use for 3 years without a dime in payment.

If it bust in that time there is nothing for the taxpayers to get. No taxes and no royalties.

Petrotrin refinery belongs to the people of Trinidad. Not the Govt....

Yup and the sad thing is when they go bust because we know they cant manage it, is we the taxpayers yet again will have to step in.

For example:
The total debt position as of 2018 of the following entities:
Petrotrin, NGC, WASA, T&TEC, TTMF, UDECOTT, NIPDEC and NIDCO for starters would tally up to over $53B ttd right?

Right now our HSF is around what, $40B ttd?

Also, this year we recording yet another budget deficit. Who would be financing all these minuses? China?

And PNM has 48 years of running this country since 1956. How dare we keep this dirty party in power to continue to put a heavy weight of debt on our children's back?

And the sad thing is, COVID19 set us back even further. The sh!t ain't hit the fan yet fellow tuners. Are you all prepared for another 5 years of satanic dictatorial rule?

The government is selling the Refinery to a private company owned by the union. What do the taxpayers have to do with anything? If they go bust, won't the investors lose their money? I can't see the connection between a private company and the ordinary taxpayers. If the venture is a success, won't the government benefit from taxes and royalties?

[alfa]

The alternative was what the pnm has been doing to the refinery for almost two years which was leaving it to rust. Whoever they give it to I say it's a good thing.

You forgetting the fact that the govt is giving a multi billion dollar asset to the "private company" to use for 3 years without a dime in payment.

If it bust in that time there is nothing for the taxpayers to get. No taxes and no royalties.

Petrotrin refinery belongs to the people of Trinidad. Not the Govt....

Yup and the sad thing is when they go bust because we know they cant manage it, is we the taxpayers yet again will have to step in.

For example:
The total debt position as of 2018 of the following entities:
Petrotrin, NGC, WASA, T&TEC, TTMF, UDECOTT, NIPDEC and NIDCO for starters would tally up to over $53B ttd right?

Right now our HSF is around what, $40B ttd?

Also, this year we recording yet another budget deficit. Who would be financing all these minuses? China?

And PNM has 48 years of running this country since 1956. How dare we keep this dirty party in power to continue to put a heavy weight of debt on our children's back?

And the sad thing is, COVID19 set us back even further. The sh!t ain't hit the fan yet fellow tuners. Are you all prepared for another 5 years of satanic dictatorial rule?

The government is selling the Refinery to a private company owned by the union. What do the taxpayers have to do with anything? If they go bust, won't the investors lose their money? I can't see the connection between a private company and the ordinary taxpayers. If the venture is a success, won't the government benefit from taxes and royalties?

[agent007]

Gladiator that's a very good point!

[De Dragon]

Yup and the sad thing is when they go bust because we know they cant manage it, is we the taxpayers yet again will have to step in.

For example:
The total debt position as of 2018 of the following entities:
Petrotrin, NGC, WASA, T&TEC, TTMF, UDECOTT, NIPDEC and NIDCO for starters would tally up to over $53B ttd right?

Right now our HSF is around what, $40B ttd?

Also, this year we recording yet another budget deficit. Who would be financing all these minuses? China?

And PNM has 48 years of running this country since 1956. How dare we keep this dirty party in power to continue to put a heavy weight of debt on our children's back?

And the sad thing is, COVID19 set us back even further. The sh!t ain't hit the fan yet fellow tuners. Are you all prepared for another 5 years of satanic dictatorial rule?

The government is selling the Refinery to a private company owned by the union. What do the taxpayers have to do with anything? If they go bust, won't the investors lose their money? I can't see the connection between a private company and the ordinary taxpayers. If the venture is a success, won't the government benefit from taxes and royalties?

You realize that for 3 whole years we will not get anything from the refinery? You realize that after 3 years, OWTU could just simply say "heh, look back yuh refinary, I good?" You realize that that would be 3 years when someone with the stones to run the refinery as a proper business would not be contributing foreign exchange? You realize the sudden, and unholy rush to sign off on the sale means it is entirely political?

[wing]

Gladiator that's a very good point!

The fact remains that the taxpayer will not be paying any funds at least initially.

[Gladiator]

Gladiator that's a very good point!

The fact remains that the taxpayer will not be paying any funds at least initially.

You blind boy.... the PNM giving away a multi billion dollar asset to a foreign/private entity. Your fadda, grandfadda and great grandfadda "funds" done pay for that over the past 6 decades.

SMH

[wing]

Gladiator that's a very good point!

The fact remains that the taxpayer will not be paying any funds at least initially.

You blind boy.... the PNM giving away a multi billion dollar asset to a foreign/private entity. Your fadda, grandfadda and great grandfadda "funds" done pay for that over the past 6 decades.

SMH

Sooo the UNC wants to keep it state owned and operated, exactly what happened before. Do you think it would magically become profitable with government fingers pulling the strings?

[Gladiator]

Gladiator that's a very good point!

The fact remains that the taxpayer will not be paying any funds at least initially.

You blind boy.... the PNM giving away a multi billion dollar asset to a foreign/private entity. Your fadda, grandfadda and great grandfadda "funds" done pay for that over the past 6 decades.

SMH

Sooo the UNC wants to keep it state owned and operated, exactly what happened before. Do you think it would magically become profitable with government fingers pulling the strings?

Didn't Ancil Roget provide documentation sometime last year to show that the "PETROTRIN is unprofitable" mantra was a PNM folly. The document was in the form of a letter from the board of directors stating that almost 2 billion in profits was made for the year. Is everybody does have 7 day memory in Trinidad?

There is no reason why it can't remain state owned and be profitable... it just takes somebody other than the lazy PNM to restructure it properly!!!

[wing]

Gladiator that's a very good point!

The fact remains that the taxpayer will not be paying any funds at least initially.

You blind boy.... the PNM giving away a multi billion dollar asset to a foreign/private entity. Your fadda, grandfadda and great grandfadda "funds" done pay for that over the past 6 decades.

SMH

Sooo the UNC wants to keep it state owned and operated, exactly what happened before. Do you think it would magically become profitable with government fingers pulling the strings?

Didn't Ancil Roget provide documentation sometime last year to show that the "PETROTRIN is unprofitable" mantra was a PNM folly. The document was in the form of a letter from the board of directors stating that almost 2 billion in profits was made for the year. Is everybody does have 7 day memory in Trinidad?

There is no reason why it can't remain state owned and be profitable... it just takes somebody other than the lazy PNM to restructure it properly!!!

I agree that it can be state owned and profitable at the same time. The problem is that this is Trinidad, and unfortunately PNM = UNC . Thus I'm willing to give private ownership a chance.

[Gladiator]

By that logic....let's give away WASA one time, and don't forget T&TEC. Also just ask anybody if they want CAL and TSTT. Just give them it free no money down for 3 years....

I hear a fella want to get TTPOST but he have no change so let him take it for 3 years and try a ting, if it make he go pay we something if not we'll no Biggie..

Gladiator that's a very good point!

The fact remains that the taxpayer will not be paying any funds at least initially.

You blind boy.... the PNM giving away a multi billion dollar asset to a foreign/private entity. Your fadda, grandfadda and great grandfadda "funds" done pay for that over the past 6 decades.

SMH

Sooo the UNC wants to keep it state owned and operated, exactly what happened before. Do you think it would magically become profitable with government fingers pulling the strings?

Didn't Ancil Roget provide documentation sometime last year to show that the "PETROTRIN is unprofitable" mantra was a PNM folly. The document was in the form of a letter from the board of directors stating that almost 2 billion in profits was made for the year. Is everybody does have 7 day memory in Trinidad?

There is no reason why it can't remain state owned and be profitable... it just takes somebody other than the lazy PNM to restructure it properly!!!

I agree that it can be state owned and profitable at the same time. The problem is that this is Trinidad, and unfortunately PNM = UNC . Thus I'm willing to give private ownership a chance.

[wing]

By that logic....let's give away WASA one time, and don't forget T&TEC. Also just ask anybody if they want CAL and TSTT. Just give them it free no money down for 3 years....

I hear a fella want to get TTPOST but he have no change so let him take it for 3 years and try a ting, if it make he go pay we something if not we'll no Biggie..

Gladiator that's a very good point!

The fact remains that the taxpayer will not be paying any funds at least initially.

You blind boy.... the PNM giving away a multi billion dollar asset to a foreign/private entity. Your fadda, grandfadda and great grandfadda "funds" done pay for that over the past 6 decades.

SMH

Sooo the UNC wants to keep it state owned and operated, exactly what happened before. Do you think it would magically become profitable with government fingers pulling the strings?

Didn't Ancil Roget provide documentation sometime last year to show that the "PETROTRIN is unprofitable" mantra was a PNM folly. The document was in the form of a letter from the board of directors stating that almost 2 billion in profits was made for the year. Is everybody does have 7 day memory in Trinidad?

There is no reason why it can't remain state owned and be profitable... it just takes somebody other than the lazy PNM to restructure it properly!!!

I agree that it can be state owned and profitable at the same time. The problem is that this is Trinidad, and unfortunately PNM = UNC . Thus I'm willing to give private ownership a chance.

Are any of these entities profitable? Are taxpayers being made to support these state run enterprises? Whether PNM or UNC, the government has failed each and every one of them.

[agent007]

Yes, non profitable state entities are a draw on the state's purse. Tax payers would have to finance collateral for the govt to borrow money to finance a debt. Issuing bonds is an example of sinking us into debt even further.

Whilst I agree both PNM and UNC did not change the status quo of inefficiency correctly, you must admit that PNM had 48 years to fix said inefficiencies at the foundational level in the first place.

We can easily blame UNC for 11 years and NAR for 5 years but how much could they have done? UNC's term is broken into 2 parts. The headway Mr Panday made in 6 years must count for something! Look at the period Mr Panday took office from. Consider the price of oil then and the state of the economy coming out of the NAR time. Those were tough times but a lot was done.

The Partnership government had to start their policies from scratch coming out of a country that got 9 years of PNM control. How much could Kamla et al have really done? Those mega waterfront projects had to be financed not so? Consider what the state of the treasury was when KPB got control of it.

We must have a flow. A continuity of governance to fix things. It cant be a switch from UNC to PNM and vice versa.

The critical formative period that is shaping the way this country fails today must lay majority blame between 1956 to 1986. That is 30 years of uninterrupted PNM governance.

Understand the way trade unions were formed, who these trade unionists were and the party they supported. You want to know why some state run companies bound to make a loss? Cause they are staff heavy and there is little productivity to show for it. Give them a chance and the TU will negotiate for workers to appear in work and must get pay for doing nothing.

Understand why certain state entities were created in the very first place such as NHA now HDC and what this did by changing the voter composition throughout constituencies.

Understand who are the people that got state housing. Understand why TTMF was created. It have certain people who got an opportunity to get mortgages whom otherwise could not have qualified under the commercial banking system.

Understand the composition of the hand-out mentality and why it got progressively worse. Understand our public utility companies and the way they did business and that they were just entities that hired their own which included countless cases of nepotism.

We have unprofitable entities up to this very day due to decades of non performance. The government wrote cheques that tax payers cannot cash!

None of them (political parties) are perfect. I agree on that but what choice do we have right now? Jack? Phillip? Fuad? Garvin? They are non entities with no concern except for themselves. Like I've been saying time and time again, our way of bipartisan politics inherited from the westminister system suggests its either you are for or against.

You cannot topple the PNM by splitting those against into several groups. We too educated and stupid at the same time to see this? Look at the momentum COP and ILP got during their high point. What did that achieve? Zero!

2020 ought to have been the year that all opposing entities stop barrel crabbing each other and finally dismiss the PNM.

The system of spending more than you earn is known no better than a PNM government and based on what I am seeing right now, prepare alluh self for another 5 years. That would be the period where the straw will finally break the camel's back.

If the PNM loses then I'll have to say that it was divine intervention cause I don't see it given what is being offered on the opposing side/s.

[rspann]

That is the truth , the whole truth and nothing but the truth .

[Redman]

The state can own an asset...yet be privately run.
But we need a mature political directorate.

[zoom rader]

The state can own an asset...yet be privately run.
But we need a mature political directorate.

all year you calling for new politicians and now you want mature political directorate

[De Dragon]

The state can own an asset...yet be privately run.
But we need a mature political directorate.

That should be how ALL of them should be operated. The GORTT, particularly PNM ones, have proven that they cannot even run a parlour.

[zoom rader]

The state can own an asset...yet be privately run.
But we need a mature political directorate.

That should be how ALL of them should be operated. The GORTT, particularly PNM ones, have proven that they cannot even run a parlour.

When PNM try to run a business it is quickly filled with pro black PNM ppl that have no idea how to run a business.

There are loads of PNM companies that went buss.

The 3 Black banks
Trinmar
Trintomar
Tanteak
ISCOTT
Caroni
BWIA
NAMDEVCO
VEMCOTT
NGC offshore
Fertrin
Tringen
Wallerfeid farms

There are loads of others, but can't recall

[De Dragon]

The state can own an asset...yet be privately run.
But we need a mature political directorate.

That should be how ALL of them should be operated. The GORTT, particularly PNM ones, have proven that they cannot even run a parlour.

When PNM try to run a business it is quickly filled with pro black PNM ppl that have no idea how to run a business.

There are loads of PNM companies that went buss.

The 3 Black banks
Trinmar
Trintomar
Tanteak
ISCOTT
Caroni
BWIA
NAMDEVCO
VEMCOTT
NGC offshore
Fertrin
Tringen
Wallerfeid farms

There are loads of others, but can't recall

TTMC